Paleo -- ur doin it wrong.

ironanimal

You think Primal or Paleo is ridiculous or crazy? Then don't eat that way! These posts and the arguments about how bad or good these lifestyles are crack me up - to each their own and who cares what the next person is doing? It's all about finding what works for you. Primal has changed my life - my weight, my labs, my health, my energy - its what works for me, but if you think it's a fad or it doesn't work for you who cares?? To each their own!

Some of us care because we are deeply disturbed by the billions of animals that are dying to feed people who *PREFER* (notice I didn't use the word "NEED") to eat this way. Not to mention the massive environmental harm the meat industry is causing to the planet we all have to share, even those of us who want nothing to do with it. The idea that what you personally prefer to eat (animal flesh) is something that shouldn't bother the rest of us compassionate citizens of this planet is absurd. It affects everyone!

I'd never get enough nutrition from plant matter alone. A vegetarian diet is out of the question for some of us, as well.

Anyway, I was under the impression our closest ancestors were primarily frugivores, with limited supply of meat, fish and vegetables. I tried Paleolithic eating for a while, and although I did feel fine doing it, it's simply too expensive for me, here in London, at the moment. Quality meat just costs too much to make it the main staple of my diet.

Tracey0013

Ok I know I am going to probably going to get in trouble for saying this from someone but here I go anyway. I like the idea of eating "clean"and the whole thing but how can we eat as humans did way back when we have altered the fresh fruits, vegetable and meats we are eating. Granted you could go organic but that is going to be one expensive menu plan.

amyhollar

You think Primal or Paleo is ridiculous or crazy? Then don't eat that way! These posts and the arguments about how bad or good these lifestyles are crack me up - to each their own and who cares what the next person is doing? It's all about finding what works for you. Primal has changed my life - my weight, my labs, my health, my energy - its what works for me, but if you think it's a fad or it doesn't work for you who cares?? To each their own!

Some of us care because we are deeply disturbed by the billions of animals that are dying to feed people who *PREFER* (notice I didn't use the word "NEED") to eat this way. Not to mention the massive environmental harm the meat industry is causing to the planet we all have to share, even those of us who want nothing to do with it. The idea that what you personally prefer to eat (animal flesh) is something that shouldn't bother the rest of us compassionate citizens of this planet is absurd. It affects everyone!

I'd never get enough nutrition from plant matter alone. A vegetarian diet is out of the question for some of us, as well.

Anyway, I was under the impression our closest ancestors were primarily frugivores, with limited supply of meat, fish and vegetables. I tried Paleolithic eating for a while, and although I did feel fine doing it, it's simply too expensive for me, here in London, at the moment. Quality meat just costs too much to make it the main staple of my diet.

You'll never get enough nutrition from a plant-based diet? Maybe you should do your research on nutritional needs, and benefits of a plant-based diet.

And where exactly do you think the meat you are eating that is "so nutritious" got it's nutrition from? What did the animals that you choose to eat, eat?

MzFury

Yep, OP - as an anthropology major with a focus in medical anth, I can attest that indeed the premise of the paleo diet is narrow-sighted. (Mind you, this was almost 20 years ago... but I remember a thing or two!)
Agriculture vs. forage did not across the board create health deficits (that is, consumption of grain). However, domestication of grains created in some cases measurable declines in population health - most notably in my recollection, the domestication of maize in the new world. on the other hand, it allowed for more efficient feeding of more people - and was part of the priesthood/hierarchy. But people lived well on corn - but bone and copralyte records (...fossilized poop) show that they weren't as healthy.
In other parts of the world, populations evolved around consumption of tubers and high-starch plants as a primary source of energy - how many cultures consume large amounts of yams and/or banana-variants? Read about the Tarahumara (the elusive distance-runner culture in Mexico) and you'll see that they eat very little meat at all, in fact.
And yes, one of the biggest distinguishing marks of human beings and human culture is adaptability, both biologically and culturally. I always thought the Blood Type Diet thing was fairly interesting - ill-researched, but interesting as a theory - because it fell far more in line with real understandings of human evolution on a biological level (note that nomadic cultures relying heavily upon dairy herds for nourishment coincided roughly with the evolution of the B type, which the author claims shows distinct tolerance of dairy not found in other blood types - in his laboratory testing and patient anecdotes, at any rate). When it comes to potentially cutting something out or drastically limiting it, I think the main thing is knowing if something makes you sick - if you have celiac or actual for real gluten intolerance, nut allergies, etc. - knowing if your blood sugar situation requires special attention and taking care of that - and then aiming for a decent variety of many foods in as close to their original form. as possible. And obviously understanding how NOT to eat too much food or consume serious calorie excess. But as to what's best, hell, we're all different and come from a bajillion different families of different enculturated customs and biological conditioning.

delilah47

You think Primal or Paleo is ridiculous or crazy? Then don't eat that way! These posts and the arguments about how bad or good these lifestyles are crack me up - to each their own and who cares what the next person is doing? It's all about finding what works for you. Primal has changed my life - my weight, my labs, my health, my energy - its what works for me, but if you think it's a fad or it doesn't work for you who cares?? To each their own!

Some of us care because we are deeply disturbed by the billions of animals that are dying to feed people who *PREFER* (notice I didn't use the word "NEED") to eat this way. Not to mention the massive environmental harm the meat industry is causing to the planet we all have to share, even those of us who want nothing to do with it. The idea that what you personally prefer to eat (animal flesh) is something that shouldn't bother the rest of us compassionate citizens of this planet is absurd. It affects everyone!

I love animals too, but all animals were either meant to be predators or to be prey. Food CHAIN. It's older than any of us. I absolutely don't believe we were meant to be strictly vegan. I tried the raw diet and was cold all the time. I also had to be prepping or eating all the time to get enough. I tried vegan and a lot of the stuff people touted to be delicious was downright disgusting. I will stay with my "balanced" diet. A little bit of everything and not too much of anything.

How to tell a predator from prey? Most predators have eyes on a flat surface on the front of their head, so as to provide depth perception. Prey animals usually have their eyes to the sides of their heads and do not have depth perception. We are predators.

ironanimal

You think Primal or Paleo is ridiculous or crazy? Then don't eat that way! These posts and the arguments about how bad or good these lifestyles are crack me up - to each their own and who cares what the next person is doing? It's all about finding what works for you. Primal has changed my life - my weight, my labs, my health, my energy - its what works for me, but if you think it's a fad or it doesn't work for you who cares?? To each their own!

Some of us care because we are deeply disturbed by the billions of animals that are dying to feed people who *PREFER* (notice I didn't use the word "NEED") to eat this way. Not to mention the massive environmental harm the meat industry is causing to the planet we all have to share, even those of us who want nothing to do with it. The idea that what you personally prefer to eat (animal flesh) is something that shouldn't bother the rest of us compassionate citizens of this planet is absurd. It affects everyone!

I'd never get enough nutrition from plant matter alone. A vegetarian diet is out of the question for some of us, as well.

Anyway, I was under the impression our closest ancestors were primarily frugivores, with limited supply of meat, fish and vegetables. I tried Paleolithic eating for a while, and although I did feel fine doing it, it's simply too expensive for me, here in London, at the moment. Quality meat just costs too much to make it the main staple of my diet.

You'll never get enough nutrition from a plant-based diet? Maybe you should do your research on nutritional needs, and benefits of a plant-based diet.

And where exactly do you think the meat you are eating that is "so nutritious" got it's nutrition from? What did the animals that you choose to eat, eat?

Sigh. Meat is more nutritionally dense, and a far superior source of protein, BCAAs, iron and lots of other nutrients I need. Soy products I avoid like the plague - they can wreak havoc on a male hormonal system. The amount of plant matter I would need to eat is absurd. I'll just enjoy my steak, and you can sleep easy knowing I don't really care or pass judgement on what you eat.

thatsnumberwang

I'm disappointed by the distinct lack of vitriol towards the OP that the pro paleo folk normally have towards posters who dare question the superiority of their diet.

Thanks for looking out for me.

yesthistime

I just want to know who the first person was to look at a cow's udder and saw: I'm gonna drink whatever comes out of that.

And I want to meet the genius that came up with dunking Oreos in said udder excretion. :drinker:

amyhollar

You think Primal or Paleo is ridiculous or crazy? Then don't eat that way! These posts and the arguments about how bad or good these lifestyles are crack me up - to each their own and who cares what the next person is doing? It's all about finding what works for you. Primal has changed my life - my weight, my labs, my health, my energy - its what works for me, but if you think it's a fad or it doesn't work for you who cares?? To each their own!

Some of us care because we are deeply disturbed by the billions of animals that are dying to feed people who *PREFER* (notice I didn't use the word "NEED") to eat this way. Not to mention the massive environmental harm the meat industry is causing to the planet we all have to share, even those of us who want nothing to do with it. The idea that what you personally prefer to eat (animal flesh) is something that shouldn't bother the rest of us compassionate citizens of this planet is absurd. It affects everyone!

I'd never get enough nutrition from plant matter alone. A vegetarian diet is out of the question for some of us, as well.

Anyway, I was under the impression our closest ancestors were primarily frugivores, with limited supply of meat, fish and vegetables. I tried Paleolithic eating for a while, and although I did feel fine doing it, it's simply too expensive for me, here in London, at the moment. Quality meat just costs too much to make it the main staple of my diet.

You'll never get enough nutrition from a plant-based diet? Maybe you should do your research on nutritional needs, and benefits of a plant-based diet.

And where exactly do you think the meat you are eating that is "so nutritious" got it's nutrition from? What did the animals that you choose to eat, eat?

Sigh. Meat is more nutritionally dense, and a far superior source of protein, BCAAs, iron and lots of other nutrients I need. Soy products I avoid like the plague - they can wreak havoc on a male hormonal system. The amount of plant matter I would need to eat is absurd. I'll just enjoy my steak, and you can sleep easy knowing I don't really care or pass judgement on what you eat.

good point, my sleep was about to be extremely disturbed by the thought someone from a MFP forum was judging me for killing all that kale. The research supporting your soy-as-an-endocrine-disruptor claim is rocky at best, so don't go throwing that out there and scaring everyone away from a poor little innocent bean! The healthiest people are shown time and time again to be the ones that consume an "absurd amount of plant matter" so dismiss it if you want but don't try to veil it it "it's for my health". It's because you feel like eating meat, probably like the way it tastes. It's not criminal, but own it. And gram for gram it's not more "nutritionally dense" than all plant-foods. And finally, plant proteins are broken down into the same stupid amino acids that all other proteins are broken down into and sent into your body's AA-pool, it's basic science. Meat is not a "far superior protein". Please.

MzFury

*and of course, you absolutely can get appropriate nutrition without animal products. Have to be more careful with a vegan diet to make sure you cover those bases, but good lord, the amount of suspicion over a diet without animal protein is phenomenal. Modern diet phenomena and crazes have really made this into a big deal that it isn't. An uneducated vegetarian may well manage to damage his body by missing some major vitamins and minerals and eating just a lot of fried potatoes and bread, just as anyone who is uneducated about basic nutrition and/or unwilling to learn to cook at all is going to be unhealthy.

ironanimal

You think Primal or Paleo is ridiculous or crazy? Then don't eat that way! These posts and the arguments about how bad or good these lifestyles are crack me up - to each their own and who cares what the next person is doing? It's all about finding what works for you. Primal has changed my life - my weight, my labs, my health, my energy - its what works for me, but if you think it's a fad or it doesn't work for you who cares?? To each their own!

Some of us care because we are deeply disturbed by the billions of animals that are dying to feed people who *PREFER* (notice I didn't use the word "NEED") to eat this way. Not to mention the massive environmental harm the meat industry is causing to the planet we all have to share, even those of us who want nothing to do with it. The idea that what you personally prefer to eat (animal flesh) is something that shouldn't bother the rest of us compassionate citizens of this planet is absurd. It affects everyone!

I'd never get enough nutrition from plant matter alone. A vegetarian diet is out of the question for some of us, as well.

Anyway, I was under the impression our closest ancestors were primarily frugivores, with limited supply of meat, fish and vegetables. I tried Paleolithic eating for a while, and although I did feel fine doing it, it's simply too expensive for me, here in London, at the moment. Quality meat just costs too much to make it the main staple of my diet.

You'll never get enough nutrition from a plant-based diet? Maybe you should do your research on nutritional needs, and benefits of a plant-based diet.

And where exactly do you think the meat you are eating that is "so nutritious" got it's nutrition from? What did the animals that you choose to eat, eat?

Sigh. Meat is more nutritionally dense, and a far superior source of protein, BCAAs, iron and lots of other nutrients I need. Soy products I avoid like the plague - they can wreak havoc on a male hormonal system. The amount of plant matter I would need to eat is absurd. I'll just enjoy my steak, and you can sleep easy knowing I don't really care or pass judgement on what you eat.

good point, my sleep was about to be extremely disturbed by the thought someone from a MFP forum was judging me for killing all that kale. The research supporting your soy-as-an-endocrine-disruptor claim is rocky at best, so don't go throwing that out there and scaring everyone away from a poor little innocent bean! The healthiest people are shown time and time again to be the ones that consume an "absurd amount of plant matter" so dismiss it if you want but don't try to veil it it "it's for my health". It's because you feel like eating meat, probably like the way it tastes. It's not criminal, but own it. And gram for gram it's not more "nutritionally dense" than all plant-foods. And finally, plant proteins are broken down into the same stupid amino acids that all other proteins are broken down into and sent into your body's AA-pool, it's basic science. Meat is not a "far superior protein". Please.

amyhollar

I'm disappointed by the distinct lack of vitriol towards the OP that the pro paleo folk normally have towards posters who dare question the superiority of their diet.

hahahhaha

amyhollar

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^ I like

melbaby925

I don't care about the premise or the concepts behind eating like a caveman - shallow of me, yes - all I know is that any eating lifestyle that encompasses whole, fresh foods with no labels or processing is the lifestyle for me! The fact that I now go pick up a farm box every week from a local farm store of fresh veggies and fruit is just a bonus.

Go non-GMO, organic, minimally processed for 6 weeks and see how you feel. I will never, ever go back to eating the way I did a year ago.

***I went non-GMO just because the principle of what's going on around this is pissing me off so badly that steam comes out of my ears. The health benefits were just the side effect of my spite.

DataBased

But even our veggies and fruits aren't 100% clean these days. They've undergone all kinds of genetic altering, not to mention the chemicals they get sprayed with. I don't think there's such a thing as a perfect diet these days but I'd wager those genetically altered veggies are better then that bag of chips I just ate...

There is very little clean meat in the U.S. as well. Even when you go hunt your own, you'r'e supposed to take it to a meat processing plant where they treat it according to mandated standards. You can get non-GMO animal protein unaffected by hormone-laced foods but unless you illegally butcher your own meat, you are getting processed food.

grinch031

My opinion is that Paleolithic humans didn't have 24/7 365-day access to refined carbohydrates like they do now. Back then unrefined carbohydrates would have been seasonal, so it made sense they would fatten up on them in the summer/fall to prepare for winter where food is more scarce. So yes humans can adapt, but when you go from seasonal unrefined carbs to an abundance of refined carbs, I can see problems arising.

There may not be a lot of science to support this, but I'm not going to criticize someone who wants to eat more naturally. It certainly can't hurt.

amyhollar

You think Primal or Paleo is ridiculous or crazy? Then don't eat that way! These posts and the arguments about how bad or good these lifestyles are crack me up - to each their own and who cares what the next person is doing? It's all about finding what works for you. Primal has changed my life - my weight, my labs, my health, my energy - its what works for me, but if you think it's a fad or it doesn't work for you who cares?? To each their own!

Some of us care because we are deeply disturbed by the billions of animals that are dying to feed people who *PREFER* (notice I didn't use the word "NEED") to eat this way. Not to mention the massive environmental harm the meat industry is causing to the planet we all have to share, even those of us who want nothing to do with it. The idea that what you personally prefer to eat (animal flesh) is something that shouldn't bother the rest of us compassionate citizens of this planet is absurd. It affects everyone!

I love animals too, but all animals were either meant to be predators or to be prey. Food CHAIN. It's older than any of us. I absolutely don't believe we were meant to be strictly vegan. I tried the raw diet and was cold all the time. I also had to be prepping or eating all the time to get enough. I tried vegan and a lot of the stuff people touted to be delicious was downright disgusting. I will stay with my "balanced" diet. A little bit of everything and not too much of anything.

How to tell a predator from prey? Most predators have eyes on a flat surface on the front of their head, so as to provide depth perception. Prey animals usually have their eyes to the sides of their heads and do not have depth perception. We are predators.

You really make such a compelling point, you predator, eating your animal flesh (animals that you LOVE) that you had nothing to do with hunting or killing, or doing any of the "predator" stuff to. Please. Animal flesh is handed you on a silver platter. Maybe you and a lion should get in a room together, put your flat-surfaced foreheads together and talk about who's the more badass predator.

weathergirl320

You think Primal or Paleo is ridiculous or crazy? Then don't eat that way! These posts and the arguments about how bad or good these lifestyles are crack me up - to each their own and who cares what the next person is doing? It's all about finding what works for you. Primal has changed my life - my weight, my labs, my health, my energy - its what works for me, but if you think it's a fad or it doesn't work for you who cares?? To each their own!

Some of us care because we are deeply disturbed by the billions of animals that are dying to feed people who *PREFER* (notice I didn't use the word "NEED") to eat this way. Not to mention the massive environmental harm the meat industry is causing to the planet we all have to share, even those of us who want nothing to do with it. The idea that what you personally prefer to eat (animal flesh) is something that shouldn't bother the rest of us compassionate citizens of this planet is absurd. It affects everyone!

I love animals too, but all animals were either meant to be predators or to be prey. Food CHAIN. It's older than any of us. I absolutely don't believe we were meant to be strictly vegan. I tried the raw diet and was cold all the time. I also had to be prepping or eating all the time to get enough. I tried vegan and a lot of the stuff people touted to be delicious was downright disgusting. I will stay with my "balanced" diet. A little bit of everything and not too much of anything.

How to tell a predator from prey? Most predators have eyes on a flat surface on the front of their head, so as to provide depth perception. Prey animals usually have their eyes to the sides of their heads and do not have depth perception. We are predators.

You really make such a compelling point, you predator, eating your animal flesh (animals that you LOVE) that you had nothing to do with hunting or killing, or doing any of the "predator" stuff to. Please. Animal flesh is handed you on a silver platter. Maybe you and a lion should get in a room together, put your flat-surfaced foreheads together and talk about who's the more badass predator.

This made me LOK! thanks for the laugh

amyhollar

You think Primal or Paleo is ridiculous or crazy? Then don't eat that way! These posts and the arguments about how bad or good these lifestyles are crack me up - to each their own and who cares what the next person is doing? It's all about finding what works for you. Primal has changed my life - my weight, my labs, my health, my energy - its what works for me, but if you think it's a fad or it doesn't work for you who cares?? To each their own!

Some of us care because we are deeply disturbed by the billions of animals that are dying to feed people who *PREFER* (notice I didn't use the word "NEED") to eat this way. Not to mention the massive environmental harm the meat industry is causing to the planet we all have to share, even those of us who want nothing to do with it. The idea that what you personally prefer to eat (animal flesh) is something that shouldn't bother the rest of us compassionate citizens of this planet is absurd. It affects everyone!

I love animals too, but all animals were either meant to be predators or to be prey. Food CHAIN. It's older than any of us. I absolutely don't believe we were meant to be strictly vegan. I tried the raw diet and was cold all the time. I also had to be prepping or eating all the time to get enough. I tried vegan and a lot of the stuff people touted to be delicious was downright disgusting. I will stay with my "balanced" diet. A little bit of everything and not too much of anything.

How to tell a predator from prey? Most predators have eyes on a flat surface on the front of their head, so as to provide depth perception. Prey animals usually have their eyes to the sides of their heads and do not have depth perception. We are predators.

You really make such a compelling point, you predator, eating your animal flesh (animals that you LOVE) that you had nothing to do with hunting or killing, or doing any of the "predator" stuff to. Please. Animal flesh is handed you on a silver platter. Maybe you and a lion should get in a room together, put your flat-surfaced foreheads together and talk about who's the more badass predator.

This made me LOK! thanks for the laugh

I was dying laughing writing it MFP forums for the win!

Marll

But even our veggies and fruits aren't 100% clean these days. They've undergone all kinds of genetic altering, not to mention the chemicals they get sprayed with. I don't think there's such a thing as a perfect diet these days but I'd wager those genetically altered veggies are better then that bag of chips I just ate...

There is very little clean meat in the U.S. as well. Even when you go hunt your own, you'r'e supposed to take it to a meat processing plant where they treat it according to mandated standards. You can get non-GMO animal protein unaffected by hormone-laced foods but unless you illegally butcher your own meat, you are getting processed food.

Where do you live that this is necessary? I've never heard of such nonsense, and don't know any self respecting hunter that would take their kill to a processing plant. Field dress it, and then take it to a local butcher at the very most.

Marll

http://www.livestrong.com/article/357313-meat-and-a-protein-allergy/

As for examples of people who have one, Bryan Danielson, professional wrestler. He was basically forced to turn vegan after a constant skin rash and weakened immune system was caused by his body's inability to process meat proteins properly. He had just attributed it to constant wrestling and mat burns, but eventually a doctor diagnosed him and told him to eliminate all animal products.

Ok, so there are cases in which this exists, however in the same article you will see:

A meat allergy is an uncommon food allergy: Ninety percent of food allergies are related to soy, wheat, peanuts, fish, eggs, tree nuts and milk, according to MayoClinic.com. Uncommon food allergy....

Also:

Asthma and Immunology says that some people can form a meat allergy from certain carbohydrates and proteins found in some meat products. Notice the reference to MEAT PRODUCTS. They again reference carbohydrates in meat in the article, which is likely possible when you are eating processed meat products and not pure meat. I'd be willing to bet that you feed those same people a nice grass fed steak and not some processed stuff they'd probably not have the same reaction.

Further, has anyone looked at what passes for "meat" these days? Go to the store and pick up just about any packaged meat, even when it says something like "Breakfast sausage links" and see how much soy and wheat are in them. It's not only shocking, but practically criminal.

So you choose to ignore the word protein to focus on the word carbohydrate? Even wheat allergies are PROTEIN allergies, not carbohydrate allergies.

So you choose to ignore the very first statement in the article that meat allergies are uncommon? You also choose to not read between the lines and see that they mention meat products several times and not specifically non-processed meat? Since when is there a carbohydrate in meat? Basically the article lost all credibility toward the meat they are referring to when they start talking about carbs in meat.

Again, I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, some people are unfortunate enough to have all kinds of odd food allergies, but again this is very uncommon. To make a statement suggesting that this is widespread enough to be a reason that people go vegetarian seems dubious at best.

penrbrown

But even our veggies and fruits aren't 100% clean these days. They've undergone all kinds of genetic altering, not to mention the chemicals they get sprayed with. I don't think there's such a thing as a perfect diet these days but I'd wager those genetically altered veggies are better then that bag of chips I just ate...

There is very little clean meat in the U.S. as well. Even when you go hunt your own, you'r'e supposed to take it to a meat processing plant where they treat it according to mandated standards. You can get non-GMO animal protein unaffected by hormone-laced foods but unless you illegally butcher your own meat, you are getting processed food.

Where do you live that this is necessary? I've never heard of such nonsense, and don't know any self respecting hunter that would take their kill to a processing plant. Field dress it, and then take it to a local butcher at the very most.

I have to agree with this post. Where I live you do not have to take your game meat to a processing facility. You just take it to the butcher. Nothing illegal involved...

historygirldd

I don't follow the Paleo Lifestyle. I have no desire to - however, my friend Jackie is a fitness model, owns a Crossfit Box, and is a sponsored athlete - and she swears by a Paleo Lifestyle, which is strictly adheres to.

This is her "Recipe Website" - it's got lots of info, as well as recipes and support should you be interested in living a similar lifestyle: http://primalwomeninthekitchen.blogspot.com/ or http://www.crossfitunrivaled.com/

Hey thanks for this. Great Help!

sapalee

I think people are missing the overall point of the Paleo/Primal diet/lifestyle. The "eat the way a caveman does" is such a simplification intended only to help people understand what to actually put in their mouth. Not the WHY it's healthier.

The health benefits for many (notice I did not say all) comes from the way our bodies respond biochemically and hormonally to what we expose them to. (grains, dairy, and sugar is simply bad joujou for many) It is not an argument that meat is a superior protein or whether it is morally the right or wrong way to eat. It's about the way our body responds to stimulus. I can't argue with or convince my cells how to behave. It's science, deal with it. But I can eat in way that will limit inflammation, increase insulin sensitivity, and limit metabolic derangement.

And as to the comment about eating meat and the sustainability and impact on our environment: Take a good look at our current agricultural practices (grain, dairy, seafood, and meat), we are going to be in a great deal more trouble if we continue the path we are on.

The Paleo community advocates eating local, getting to know your food sources, and buying directly from sustainable farmers. How does loading up on grains and junk in the supermarket help out the situation? Grass-fed beef, free range eggs and chicken, wild caught fish, and eating locally and seasonally fruits and veggies are all heavily advocated not merely for their "feel good" benefit, but for their clear nutrition benefits as well.

This is how change is made, not by standing on moral high ground, but by showing clear scientific benefits and taking ownership for what we are consuming. And no, eating this way does NOT have to be more expensive, can actually be done for LESS. And yes, I was a vegetarian at one time, so I do feel I have some ground to stand on with this.

And seriously who said all calories are the same? Welcome to 2012 hon, science has left you behind, good luck with the weight loss. (ouch, that sounds harsh, sorry, but seriously)

I'd like to see people do some research and focus on the real topics before spouting off their opinions. Believe and eat whatever you want, it's your body. Just don't criticise others for what they do if you don't know anything more than the slogan or hot-button issues.

Is this the vitriol you desired? lol

Acg67

I think people are missing the overall point of the Paleo/Primal diet/lifestyle. The "eat the way a caveman does" is such a simplification intended only to help people understand what to actually put in their mouth. Not the WHY it's healthier.

The health benefits for many (notice I did not say all) comes from the way our bodies respond biochemically and hormonally to what we expose them to. (grains, dairy, and sugar is simply bad joujou for many) It is not an argument that meat is a superior protein or whether it is morally the right or wrong way to eat. It's about the way our body responds to stimulus. I can't argue with or convince my cells how to behave. It's science, deal with it. But I can eat in way that will limit inflammation, increase insulin sensitivity, and limit metabolic derangement.

And as to the comment about eating meat and the sustainability and impact on our environment: Take a good look at our current agricultural practices (grain, dairy, seafood, and meat), we are going to be in a great deal more trouble if we continue the path we are on.

The Paleo community advocates eating local, getting to know your food sources, and buying directly from sustainable farmers. How does loading up on grains and junk in the supermarket help out the situation? Grass-fed beef, free range eggs and chicken, wild caught fish, and eating locally and seasonally fruits and veggies are all heavily advocated not merely for their "feel good" benefit, but for their clear nutrition benefits as well.

This is how change is made, not by standing on moral high ground, but by showing clear scientific benefits and taking ownership for what we are consuming. And no, eating this way does NOT have to be more expensive, can actually be done for LESS. And yes, I was a vegetarian at one time, so I do feel I have some ground to stand on with this.

And seriously who said all calories are the same? Welcome to 2012 hon, science has left you behind, good luck with the weight loss. (ouch, that sounds harsh, sorry, but seriously)

I'd like to see people do some research and focus on the real topics before spouting off their opinions. Believe and eat whatever you want, it's your body. Just don't criticise others for what they do if you don't know anything more than the slogan or hot-button issues.

Is this the vitriol you desired? lol

Needs more personal attacks to be good pro paleo vitriol imo

Do you personally think that the weight of the current scientific evidence points to severely limiting grains, legumes and dairy for everyone?

Well a calorie is just a standardized unit of energy so technically a calorie is calorie, now you may be referring to how it relates to food, particularly macronutrients and the differences in their thermic effect among other things. But with that said, let's assume you did think all calories were exactly the same and just ate in a caloric deficit with no regards to macro nutrient split, would you lose weight or not?

sapalee

I think people are missing the overall point of the Paleo/Primal diet/lifestyle. The "eat the way a caveman does" is such a simplification intended only to help people understand what to actually put in their mouth. Not the WHY it's healthier.

The health benefits for many (notice I did not say all) comes from the way our bodies respond biochemically and hormonally to what we expose them to. (grains, dairy, and sugar is simply bad joujou for many) It is not an argument that meat is a superior protein or whether it is morally the right or wrong way to eat. It's about the way our body responds to stimulus. I can't argue with or convince my cells how to behave. It's science, deal with it. But I can eat in way that will limit inflammation, increase insulin sensitivity, and limit metabolic derangement.

And as to the comment about eating meat and the sustainability and impact on our environment: Take a good look at our current agricultural practices (grain, dairy, seafood, and meat), we are going to be in a great deal more trouble if we continue the path we are on.

The Paleo community advocates eating local, getting to know your food sources, and buying directly from sustainable farmers. How does loading up on grains and junk in the supermarket help out the situation? Grass-fed beef, free range eggs and chicken, wild caught fish, and eating locally and seasonally fruits and veggies are all heavily advocated not merely for their "feel good" benefit, but for their clear nutrition benefits as well.

This is how change is made, not by standing on moral high ground, but by showing clear scientific benefits and taking ownership for what we are consuming. And no, eating this way does NOT have to be more expensive, can actually be done for LESS. And yes, I was a vegetarian at one time, so I do feel I have some ground to stand on with this.

And seriously who said all calories are the same? Welcome to 2012 hon, science has left you behind, good luck with the weight loss. (ouch, that sounds harsh, sorry, but seriously)

I'd like to see people do some research and focus on the real topics before spouting off their opinions. Believe and eat whatever you want, it's your body. Just don't criticise others for what they do if you don't know anything more than the slogan or hot-button issues.

Is this the vitriol you desired? lol

Needs more personal attacks to be good pro paleo vitriol imo

Do you personally think that the weight of the current scientific evidence points to severely limiting grains, legumes and dairy for everyone?

Well a calorie is just a standardized unit of energy so technically a calorie is calorie, now you may be referring to how it relates to food, particularly macronutrients and the differences in their thermic effect among other things. But with that said, let's assume you did think all calories were exactly the same and just ate in a caloric deficit with no regards to macro nutrient split, would you lose weight or not?

Dang, never was any good at personal attacks

Limiting severely for everyone? No, like I said previously, some are affected more than others and those are obviously the people who will tend to stick with it because they are seeing clear benefits. But general trends will change when people recognize the benefits in those around them and begin making changes themselves. I'm seeing it already. And yes, a great deal of research still needs to be done. Wolf, Cordain and many others are advocating and working on making that happen.

Yes, how our bodies respond to calories from one nutrient vs another is different. As far as losing weight on a calorie defecit, of course you can do it and many do, it's just not the most efficient. Things are more complex than simply calories in and out, this is what I was referring to with the original posters comment about why we are fatter and unhealthier now SIMPLY because we eat too many calories and don't exercise enough. It's like saying eating fat will make you fat. We can't oversimplify something so complex as the human body.

Acg67

Dang, never was any good at personal attacks

Limiting severely for everyone? No, like I said previously, some are affected more than others and those are obviously the people who will tend to stick with it because they are seeing clear benefits. But general trends will change when people recognize the benefits in those around them and begin making changes themselves. I'm seeing it already. And yes, a great deal of research still needs to be done. Wolf, Cordain and many others are advocating and working on making that happen.

Yes, how our bodies respond to calories from one nutrient vs another is different. As far as losing weight on a calorie defecit, of course you can do it and many do, it's just not the most efficient. Things are more complex than simply calories in and out, this is what I was referring to with the original posters comment about why we are fatter and unhealthier now SIMPLY because we eat too many calories and don't exercise enough. It's like saying eating fat will make you fat. We can't oversimplify something so complex as the human body.

And yes the energy balance equation is a little more complex as cals in vs cals out, see;

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/the-energy-balance-equation.html

And what would be the most efficient way to lose bodyfat?

ladykate7

what i want to know is just how hungery man was to discover that shellfish was tasty:drinker:

and broccoli:noway:

Jeff92se

Question. Does the body process 100% of the calories available from a particular food we eat in the time it's in our intenstines?

Let's say this:

1) 6 dounuts. Let's say worth 2,000 calories.
2) Let' say 12 peanut and jelly sandwiches on whole wheat bread worth about 2,000 calories.

sapalee

I think we are getting a little off track here, Paleo isn't necessarily about fat loss. I do love all the work to the energy balance equation he's done to make it make sense. What is not accounted for however is our hormonal response to different types of foods and how our body uses and stores the calories we consume. And of course our stress, sleep, hydration, and neuroendocrine response to different types of exercise. HORMONES! They control us in so many more ways than people give them credit for.

I realize many people here are working towards losing weight but the Paleo lifestyle (as Robb Wolf presents in particularly) is not simply about losing fat, though it is often an outcome. Eating Paleo is more about healing your gut, reducing inflammation, avoiding blood sugar spikes and falls, reducing stress, and increasing insulin sensitivity. Overall health, not just numbers on a scale.