should she have her surgery paid for?
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Finally some compassion!Ok........ This woman is over 450 lbs. How many of you have been there? I have been relatively close. I was 342 at 22. It was suggested that I have the gastric bypass. Several of my family members had. I told them that because I was only 22, I wanted to try on my own for a year first and then reasses. It was a terrifying thought. I was afraid. I was afraid I would fail and HAVE to have surgery. I was afraid I would succeed and not be ABLE to have surgery. I was afraid I would be fat forever. I was afraid to be thin. It was all I had ever known and my whole world would either change drastically, or not at all. We have (mostly) all been here, just not to the same extent. I think many of us forget how frightening it is to start a change like this. We all had habits that got us to our top weights. We *knew* how to change them, but how many times did it seem like a futile attempt? How many times did we feel like we could never get out of this loop that was killing us. I do feel she should have some serious interventions first. Medically supervised, lab results, working with a dietician, a trainer..... hell...... I will pay my part for that. But, I will also pay my part for the surgery when she tries for 6 months and is still 400 lbs. To come from a place that high is daunting. It was scary for me at half her age and 100 lbs lighter. I wound up not needing it, but partly because I was so young and had so many years ahead of me to fix it. Were I in her situation, I may go the same route. I dont think she wants it merely to go on vacation, but to be afforded the opportunity to not be treated like a freak when she does. It is very hard to live like that. I feel like most of you have forgotten that feeling. I hope I never do. I hope I always understand that just because a person is in a self inflicted situation, doesn't mean it is not the scariest thing in the world to overcome.0 -
I do have to say that if her husband is paying 30-40% taxes like other Brits do (and their house looks reasonably well off), that woman should be able to get help via her insurance. Maybe it's a metabolic ward, maybe it's WLS.. but this is the UK's insurance. That's a TON to pay without being able to say, "I'd like bariatric surgery" without having some ugly newspaper talk smack about you.
The article is -rude-. We have no clue whether she was at her last job and broke an office chair and they fired her. You have no clue if she's just talking about working out or dieting in the past, since none of the quotes are complete. They're all patchwork. The article is designed so you can say, "Ew, no, that fatty doesn't deserve this!"
Anyways. The screening for WLS in the UK is lean. Maybe y'all should work on that.0 -
Heck no! If food is your addiction..and since she is 462lbs.. I'm guessing it is..then surgery isn't going to help. You can reverse all those weight loss surgeries if you're that addicted to food. It won't matter how bad it hurts to over-eat they will still do it and the tax payer money will be wasted!!.0
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agreed, also $300 a week on fast food... save some of that money by cooking at home and pay for itI'm annoyed that she wants it so she can go on holiday.
How can she afford to go on holiday at all if she's jobless and needs the surgery?0 -
I'd like to get breast augmentation paid for... since I lost weight I lost my boobalas!!! I worked hard I deserve it more than she does!!!!
BTW I'M KIDDING!!!!!
im in the uk, ill sign your petition. if they allow girls who say thier small boobs give them mental anguish then they can sure as hell allow you to have them done too0 -
I'd hate to play devil's advocate here but if you think about how much money it might cost to treat her obesity related ailments for the remainder of her life, it might add up to much more than $22,000 considering how far modern medicine has come (and how much health care costs these days). In that case, if the the taxpayer is going to be footing the bill anyway, it might be a better deal to pay for the weight loss surgery (provided it gurantees weight loss and maintenance of such). Based on her general attitude though, I can see that the surgery without a drastic change in lifestyle (and attitude) would be a waste but I'm sure in some cases it might be the better 'economic' option.0
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I think the drug rehab comparison is a good way to look at it. Same with eating disorder clinics, people are often unsuccessful in their first attempts, but that doesn't mean it's not important. I wonder if people would have such strong attitudes if she was anorexic instead of morbidly obese? Both are incredibly dangerous and very deeply rooted mentally and emotionally (usually).NO WAY! :explode:
She didn't want to exercise or diet because it was too hard. It was in effect her own choice to get so big. Why should anyone else have to pay for that?
I guess it's all our own choices to let our weight get out of control. Some of us are able to get control enough to fix it while others have a really tough time. I didn't go to the link to see who, or what the circumstance was, but sometimes if the "state" pays for weight loss surgery, they are actually saving money. All the money they would have to spend providing medical care for someone obese and unhealthy is, potentially, many times more than weight loss surgery. It's cheaper in the long run. And, where do you think the money comes from? It comes from taxpayers. Would you rather pay part of $100,000 (just a number) one time for weight loss surgery or pay part of $500,000, $600,000, etc (just another number), ongoing, for health care for an obese person for the rest of their life? Medicare is starting to pay for some bariatric surgeries now because of this very premise. So, it's not just the one person who is being affected.
But how many people who get these kinds of surgeries are going to be healthy for the long haul afterward? If she doesn't eat healthy or exercise now, it's likely she will fall back into that pattern.
It IS a sticky situation. Most of us will fall back as well; it's the nature of the beast. I'm not saying to give everyone WLS who wants it. I did go look at the article. I also believe a person should have, at least, tried to lose weight before qualifying for surgery. It's been proven, if successful, medical costs are much lower as well as the fact people who haven't been working are again able to work. We pay for drug rehab too, but how often does that work? In the end, we pay for lots of medical costs knowing the outcome may not be a positive one; even heart, cancer, brain, etc surgeries. If taxpayers didn't pay, we would look like barbarians, not giving people a chance at success (or a chance at life).
I like the example of potential health care costs obese patients. That is the logic they use here in Canada in giving people WLS, that it will save the system alot of money in the long run.
I also, like the analogy of comparing drug rehab to weight loss surgery, it doesn't always work but when it does it makes a huge difference in the lives of the patients and their families.
In Canada, each province handles health care a bit differently, so I can only speak of what I have heard about receiving WLS in British Columbia. There is a wait list, a long wait list, someone told me a few years back that they waited over two years for the surgery once they were eligible. There is an eligibility criteria, basically the patient has to go through psychological screening, have been morbidly obese for a certain period of time, and loss a percentage of body weight prior to the surgery with the assistance of a dietitian.0 -
No. It won't help her to learn good exercise and eating habits, which she may need to keep the weight off. It will also rob her of the joy which is the result of embarking on your own weight loss journey.
They could pair her up with a good nutritionist and exercise physiologist who can tailor a program for her needs. All exercise hurts from time to time. She can develop endurance with enough patience.0 -
Poppycock.I do have to say that if her husband is paying 30-40% taxes like other Brits do (and their house looks reasonably well off), that woman should be able to get help via her insurance.
They are both unemployed, so neither of them pay ANY taxes at all, and it's inconceivable that either of them would have health insurance.
MY taxes are paying for their house, they are exempt from property taxes, my taxes pay for the dentistry for the entire family, and their prescriptions, and for their electricity bills, and for their gas bills, and for their TV license, and for their household insurance, and for their child benefit and for her $300 a week fast food habit, and to support her breeding habit.
Very few Brits have health insurance, most of the people who do have it as a perk of a good job and pay taxes on that perk, which is also a perk for their employers because it means that any operations are done straight away, so they don't have to pay extended sick pay while employees are on the NHS waiting lists.
Really? People like that make me sick.0 -
I just posted a comment. I think my new motto is "Get over it and get off the couch" LOL0
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if you can get invetro and be on well fare then she should get her operation to....just saying, altho if she gains it back she should have to repay some of the money...0
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IMO, this is a huge problem in the world. People who have absolutely no persal resposiblilty living off the backs of those who work hard to provide for their families. Please understand, I am not a rich person coming down on the poor. We actually qualify for food stamps, welfare, medicaid, etc. However, I refuse to take any of it because my problems are not the issue of the taxpayers. I take full responsibility for my own actions. If the lady gets her surgery for "free", it isn't free because someone has to pay for it and that someone(s) is the taxpayer. Now, let say 100 more just like her decide to take the lazy way out and get theirs "free" too. Where do you suppose it will end? Eventually, they are going to run out of other peoples money or the working people are going to give up and quit too because they are tired of paying for everyone else. Just my thoughts. I live by: You made your bed, now sleep in it.0
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Poppycock.I do have to say that if her husband is paying 30-40% taxes like other Brits do (and their house looks reasonably well off), that woman should be able to get help via her insurance.
They are both unemployed, so neither of them pay ANY taxes at all, and it's inconceivable that either of them would have health insurance.
MY taxes are paying for their house, and for her $300 a week fast food habit, and to support her breeding habit.
Very few Brits have health insurance, most of the people who do have it as a perk of a good job and pay taxes on that perk, which is also a perk for their employers because it means that any operations are done straight away, so they don't have to pay extended sick pay while employees are on the NHS waiting lists.
It doesn't say anything about him being unemployed. If it's true, it does change it a bit. I'm not talking conventional health insurance, I'm talking NHS. It's your health insurance. You pay those taxes for the privilege of that program. Half of you can't see private doctors anywhere else because you pay so much for the privilege of that program. What I'm saying is that if he works, her claims shouldn't be ignored. ...also, I giggled endlessly for poppycock. Ahhh.0 -
I'd hate to play devil's advocate here but if you think about how much money it might cost to treat her obesity related ailments for the remainder of her life, it might add up to much more than $22,000 considering how far modern medicine has come (and how much health care costs these days). In that case, if the the taxpayer is going to be footing the bill anyway, it might be a better deal to pay for the weight loss surgery (provided it gurantees weight loss and maintenance of such). Based on her general attitude though, I can see that the surgery without a drastic change in lifestyle (and attitude) would be a waste but I'm sure in some cases it might be the better 'economic' option.
Well, to be fair, if she'd stop spending the $300+/week on fast food, she'd be able to fund over $15,000 on her own dime and that means that the taxpayer is only out about $7,000. A "little" responsibility would go a long way to making the results sustainable. As you mentioned, the general attitude probably points much more to the ultimate "economic option."0 -
I also read a little further, and it turns out she "gave up looking for work after she'd had her first child and applied for 15 jobs" WOW. I'm unemployed and I'm applying for that many jobs at least a WEEK. There is no fixing this persons Lazy. The family are on more in benefits than I was earning before I lost my job. Now I'm on jobseekers, but because i haven't had children (because I'd rather I was able to pay for them, rather than expecting our government to!) I get the bare minimum and find it a hard task to get enough food to live on. She spents more in a week on takeaway than I get from a months jobseekers :explode:
No sympathy. This is exactly the sort of person our government is throwing money at and giving our society a bad name in the "dole scrounging" stakes. People should be able to pass some sort of intelligence or awareness test before they're allowed to breed, rather than making the problem worse.
She should come over here, learn it from scratch and put the same effort in that I see people doing here every day. Her excuses are ridiculous. If you can't stand for more than 2 minutes, bring your veg and whatnot into the lounge to prepare. Get your husband or grown children to help out with the cooking. What on earth are those poor kids learning? Free living, laziness, no motivation, going to glossy mags for the sympathy vote... I would be embarrassed to be seen in that article picture. "Hi, I've no inclination to do anything but get free housing and living allowance from the government, aren't I a great contributer to society?"
This is such a bug bear for me if you couldn't tell.
And this is also the most negative thing I've ever posted here. I'm normally positive, believe in if you can't say anything nice don't say it, but there are lines. This heap of lazy crossed them for me, so sorry if it's offended anyone. But hey, you're all doing something positive, what about her?0 -
IMO, this is a huge problem in the world. People who have absolutely no persal resposiblilty living off the backs of those who work hard to provide for their families. Please understand, I am not a rich person coming down on the poor. We actually qualify for food stamps, welfare, medicaid, etc. However, I refuse to take any of it because my problems are not the issue of the taxpayers. I take full responsibility for my own actions. If the lady gets her surgery for "free", it isn't free because someone has to pay for it and that someone(s) is the taxpayer. Now, let say 100 more just like her decide to take the lazy way out and get theirs "free" too. Where do you suppose it will end? Eventually, they are going to run out of other peoples money or the working people are going to give up and quit too because they are tired of paying for everyone else. Just my thoughts. I live by: You made your bed, now sleep in it.
^^^^^^^ This!
"The problem with Socialism is eventually you run out of other peoples money" Margaret Thatcher0 -
Click on the link in the OP's article for the whole story*.
Poppycock.I do have to say that if her husband is paying 30-40% taxes like other Brits do (and their house looks reasonably well off), that woman should be able to get help via her insurance.
They are both unemployed, so neither of them pay ANY taxes at all, and it's inconceivable that either of them would have health insurance.
MY taxes are paying for their house, and for her $300 a week fast food habit, and to support her breeding habit.
Very few Brits have health insurance, most of the people who do have it as a perk of a good job and pay taxes on that perk, which is also a perk for their employers because it means that any operations are done straight away, so they don't have to pay extended sick pay while employees are on the NHS waiting lists.
It doesn't say anything about him being unemployed.
*Can't believe I just described something from the Daily Mail as "the whole story" UGH!0 -
Me too.Her excuses are ridiculous. If you can't stand for more than 2 minutes, bring your veg and whatnot into the lounge to prepare. Get your husband or grown children to help out with the cooking. What on earth are those poor kids learning? Free living, laziness, no motivation, going to glossy mags for the sympathy vote... I would be embarrassed to be seen in that article picture. "Hi, I've no inclination to do anything but get free housing and living allowance from the government, aren't I a great contributer to society?"
This is such a bug bear for me if you couldn't tell.
I'm seeing hard working people, nurses and teachers and other people who care about their jobs, who provide essential services, losing their jobs in the UK right now because of government funding being slashed.
As she has six kids, no doubt their house, which we're paying for, is enormous and has a huge garden, cut their benefits, and let them grow their own food. Or *gasp* get a job and learn to take responsibility for their actions!0 -
NO!
if she would replace her fast food with fresh veggies she would cut her calories and grocery bill in half!0 -
I'm not going to discount any possible benefits this surgery has for some people (very few). The first surgeries were done on lab dogs - and all the dogs died soon afterward, but the medical industry saw a big cash cow in that one with rising rates of fat people. As soon as it could be done on people without killing them, it caught on quick and every time a new improvement or new surgery came onto the market, doctors became even more enthused about offering it as a solution. Doctors aren't going to do much to help people avoid the surgery because this is a HUGE money-maker. They go as far as requiring you to put in 6 to 12 months of one last try, but why do they think that some of these people will be any more motivated during those months? It would be pretty easy to go through all the motions and come back with "just can't do it, Doc". I think those resources spent on the surgery would be better spent on a boot camp - kind of like Biggest Loser, but without the creepy entertainment aspect. If someone couldn't make it through a month of that and find out that they CAN do it (and I think most would) then go ahead - start cuttin' Doc. I know I that I tend to offend people with my crazyass ideas, but I'm serious about this. Even if it cost as much as the surgery (including the costs of being away from home and unable to care for your family) it would save so many lives and teach so many people that YES they actually can do it. There would still be people who wimp out, but I guess the whole discussion frustrates me - how the $$$$ do you motivate genuinely lazy people who just won't get it? I guess then you let them have the surgery as a last ditch effort - I just think the pre-qualification should be more Draconian. Those who pull themselves together and do what has to be done experience something very similar, but somehow manage to summon up the strength to push themselves through their own version of fat-to-fit boot camp. When I see people on MFP who have lost hundreds of pounds as a result of hard work and sacrifice, I have a very hard time taking WL surgery seriously. Personal experience has taught me that there's no better lesson than forcing yourself to do what you believe to be impossible and if the results are less than perfect -then go back and do it again and figure out how to get it right.Like others have said - for the surgery to be successful, you have to get your mind right - which means you could lose weight on your own without the surgery (if your mind is right). You have to make just as much change with the surgery as you do just to lose weight on your own so why not stop being lazy and just do it on your own? the surgery is NOT a guaranteed fix, and often times, those that have the surgery do NOT keep the weight off!
**I almost wish they had never introduced WLS -- everyone seems to think it is a quick, guaranteed, easy fix.0 -
One word...NO!
Ok, two words...Hell No!0 -
I forgot to say that those people who lose huge amounts of weight sometimes began with surgery and I think it's nothing to sneeze at if they kept it off and reached their goals or thereabouts. It's amazing to me either way.0
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The way you feel about benefits is admirable, but just by your attitude you actually do deserve to collect some benefits for awhile if you paid into the system. You aren't the kind of person who would see it as a permanent solution, so you wouldn't be abusing the system. I had the same attitude for about 5 years while too sick to work. I struggled with a home business until I finally became so sick that the "system" had to pay for surgeries, long hospitalizations and then if I hadn't had early SS and SSI, I would have had no means of support while recovering. SS and SSI for someone who had to stay home for several years with a disabled child is very lean - doesn't cover all the rent and utilities and, even though I was sick, under daily home nursing care, I still went back to work at my home business to try to make enough to cover the basics. I don't have money for clothes or home repairs and may eventually lose my manuf. home if they kick me out of the park for being unable to maintain my house and yard. I don't have help for shopping and errands and part of my self-employment requires a car, so I have to cover those expenses. If my car breaks down during the off season when I don't have any extra money for repairs, I won't be able to make most of that income. It's an anxiety inducing life and I wouldn't wish it on anyone and I feel no guilt whatsoever for using food benefits and the Oregon Health Plan (totally free medical care and medications). Without them, the delicate balance of my scary budget would collapse - if I even managed to stay alive. Good news, which I hope will keep me from being judged (worth a try) - the goal was to make me whole again, even though Social Security determined that I'm permanently disabled and unlikely to live much longer. My doctors never gave up on me, though and in a few months I should be able to start looking for a job and may be in the best health I've experienced in decades. Not everybody wants to take unfair advantage of the system and I'll be able to give back to that system as a result. If I'd had to continue to struggle totally on my own instead, I've been told that I would have died a couple of years ago.IMO, this is a huge problem in the world. People who have absolutely no persal resposiblilty living off the backs of those who work hard to provide for their families. Please understand, I am not a rich person coming down on the poor. We actually qualify for food stamps, welfare, medicaid, etc. However, I refuse to take any of it because my problems are not the issue of the taxpayers. I take full responsibility for my own actions. If the lady gets her surgery for "free", it isn't free because someone has to pay for it and that someone(s) is the taxpayer. Now, let say 100 more just like her decide to take the lazy way out and get theirs "free" too. Where do you suppose it will end? Eventually, they are going to run out of other peoples money or the working people are going to give up and quit too because they are tired of paying for everyone else. Just my thoughts. I live by: You made your bed, now sleep in it.0 -
She has major binge issues - opposite of the issues experienced by anorexics. She still has an eating disorder, something is not right for her to get to such a high weight. Surgery may help her to finally get it together. The desire to eat can be completely overwhelming for some just like the desire to starve yourself as an anorexic.0
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Absolutely NOT.
What a lazy *kitten*.
I really wish MFP had polls. I'd LOVE to see the numbers.0 -
People seem to make the assumption that getting surgery will magically fix them. That is a MAJOR surgery that drastically changes the way you can eat. One of my husband's friends had it and told us stories about how he would throw up if he ate something bad or too much of something. If this woman isn't willing to at least try to change her lifestyle before hand, what makes her thing she'll adjust to the limitations the surgery will put on her diet?0
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http://now.msn.com/living/0327-fat-mom-surgery.aspx
what are your thoughts on this woman? do you think that she should get her surgery paid for?
maybe we should introduce her to this site. i don't know how i feel about this, especially after seeing so many wonderful successes on MFP. what do you guys think?
They should try a dietician first if she hasn't. I know she said in the article that dieting is hard but I wonder if that was on her own or with a proper guide. If she finds it hard just because she is lazy, well, then no.0 -
Edit: Felt my post was a bit harsh and off topic so I took it down0
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that's a pretty loose article. there has to be another angle to this story that the writer was either too lazy to explain or ,more likely, just plain got int he way of his/her opinion.
If you take it at face value, then this woman has to earn this surgery..but that weight, she might not have long to live unless there is serious surgical or clinical intervention. do we let people like this die?0 -
I think if she chooses to have the surgery and pay for it herself that would be fine. But, I feel it is wrong to have tax payers pay for it. Also, IF taxpayers were going to pay for it, wouldn't it be nice to see her lose 50lbs on her own before the government approves the surgery. That way taxpayers know that she is serious and is going to change her lifestyle. My guess is that in the end, she will not be successful because, in her own words, it will be "too hard" and exercise "hurts"
By the way, I have 6 kids and I am 42...there is no reason for her to get to her size. Such a sad story.0
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