The "Sissifying" of America...

femmi1120

So true... my sister had a dance competition this past weekend, where every single tream won "first place." While there were actual scores (and some were higher than others), they didn't announce the actual 1st, 2nd, 3rd place winners and simply gave 1st place ribbons to everyone.... seriously... why even call it a competition? Just call it a showcase..

EpiGaiaRepens

i disagree.

and my kid is awesome.

the only way you become a winner is to not let the failures beat you down and keep trying. What is the saying? Edison didn't fail 500 times, he found 500 ways to not make a lightbulb work.

And had he been sufficiently rewarded for those 500 failures, he might never have found the need to go on to find the one success.

BS. What you guys are talking about is about giving kids posivibes even when they don't win like it's some crime against humanity. My son always gets told he did good even when he fails because i'm not gonna emotionally abuse him for not being the best at everything. Trying, and continuing to try, is what matters.

I think you might be missing the point a little. Being told you're a failure is much different than being allowed to fail.

Maybe I am.

It's the part where the principle gave everyone a ribbon and told them they all were winners that I'm focusing on. Whatever it was, i'm sure every kid knows who "won" and who "lost" but there is benefits to being positive about plugging ahead even when you aren't on top. Even with things like marathons- hell, I consider myself a winner for finishing the goddamned thing!

I'm also focusing on all the talk about t-ball. The point of t-ball isn't to be competitive, it's to learn how to work as a team and how to play the game. I LOVED that they didn't keep score and no kid got beat up becuase his dad was absent and his mom worked all the time and so he wasn't at the same level as coaches three boys or whatever.

I'm not saying hand them a silver platter and free keys to the car and let them do whatever. But i'm not into the "LET KIDS FAIL" and calling them losers.

I don't think anyone in this thread said they would call their kid "losers".

Nobody is saying you should go home and yell/berate your child. They're saying it's important that children experience what it's like to fail or even do something poorly.

It's so they can learn how to cope with failure/disappointment/ya know the negative stuff that comes with events throughout our lives.

So I read a bunch of peoples response to what I've said and I have two final things I want to say:

First, maybe I got the idea that we weren't talking about positively supporting our kids in maneuvering their own limitaitons/failures because we are using words like "sissy" to describe the fallouts of that kind of behavior.

Second, I'm not sure we disagree so much as we aren't clear about what we are talking about....I went to a university where students committed suicide for not living up to the expectations of their parents. I'm not saying tell people who are lazy *kitten* *kitten* who don't even try that they are just as awesome as the winners, I'm talking about giving kids credit for trying ("PARTICIPATING") because, like with a marathon, even being present and giving your all (even if you have a learning disability, abusive home life, poverty, or whatever that makes it hard for you to be the "WINNER") is an accomplishment. Not giving up ("PARTICIPATING") is an accomplishment.

MissTattoo

I blame attachment parenting and helicopter parents. I'm making sure my daughter goes to a school with teams that keep score and teachers who fail students for not doing their *kitten*.

EpiGaiaRepens

and also, I think its pretty silly that people don't think the kids know who really won. Even in t-ball when the policy was against winners and losers (something I AGREE with as 6 year olds need to learn how to play the game before they get all competitive), the boys know which team won. My son knew who won the whole season and where his team ranked. They aren't stupid...they're little.

EpiGaiaRepens

I blame attachment parenting and helicopter parents. I'm making sure my daughter goes to a school with teams that keep score and teachers who fail students for not doing their *kitten*.

I'm pro attachment parenting, anti helicopter parenting. For me it's an age thing- attachment parenting is for infants. It stops. Helicopter parenting is overbearing and not allowing children to be free. In my opinion, controlling to such an extreme that it hinders your child's development.

penrbrown

and also, I think its pretty silly that people don't think the kids know who really won. Even in t-ball when the policy was against winners and losers (something I AGREE with as 6 year olds need to learn how to play the game before they get all competitive), the boys know which team won. My son knew who won the whole season and where his team ranked. They aren't stupid...they're little.

If they know then why pretend they don't?

I don't understand why rewarding everyone is necessary if the kids understand they lost anyway?

EpiGaiaRepens

and also, I think its pretty silly that people don't think the kids know who really won. Even in t-ball when the policy was against winners and losers (something I AGREE with as 6 year olds need to learn how to play the game before they get all competitive), the boys know which team won. My son knew who won the whole season and where his team ranked. They aren't stupid...they're little.

If they know then why pretend they don't?

I don't understand why rewarding everyone is necessary if the kids understand they lost anyway?

I think the point is to engender a spirit of enjoying the process, even if one loses.

penrbrown

and also, I think its pretty silly that people don't think the kids know who really won. Even in t-ball when the policy was against winners and losers (something I AGREE with as 6 year olds need to learn how to play the game before they get all competitive), the boys know which team won. My son knew who won the whole season and where his team ranked. They aren't stupid...they're little.

If they know then why pretend they don't?

I don't understand why rewarding everyone is necessary if the kids understand they lost anyway?

I think the point is to engender a spirit of enjoying the process, even if one loses.

Doesn't it also set up a system where children expect a reward even if they aren't the one who is chosen?

How does this translate when they become adults? Say they fail the job interview? Do they figure they'll still get the job? Or perhaps they do poorly on a job performance review... will they still expect a raise?

I dunno... I enjoyed competition just fine without being rewarded when I didn't win. I guess the point is to stop kids from being discouraged but I don't think coddling will help develop healthy egos.

Babywedg

This is so incredibly true. How can a child ever excel if they have nothing to excel for? What are they going to get when they become adults working in the "real world"? My kids TOTALLY understand the point system even when there are no points being kept in soccer games! They get it! The problem is that adults want to be their kids friends and they need to step up and be their PARENTS. As parents we're to raise our kids to be independent well rounded adults. The generation coming in behind is is scary to think about.

EpiGaiaRepens

how is giving them a ribbon for participating coddling them???

how is it coddling six year olds to have them play a three hour t-ball game without declaring a winner or a loser???

I guess I'm just really different than y'all. And I'm pretty ok with that.

MissTattoo

I blame attachment parenting and helicopter parents. I'm making sure my daughter goes to a school with teams that keep score and teachers who fail students for not doing their *kitten*.

I'm pro attachment parenting, anti helicopter parenting. For me it's an age thing- attachment parenting is for infants. It stops. Helicopter parenting is overbearing and not allowing children to be free. In my opinion, controlling to such an extreme that it hinders your child's development.

But some parents AP way beyond the infant stage.

FitLink

So, I attended a function my daughter had called the "Reading Olympics", last night. There were 2,000 5th graders from schools all over my area of the state. Basic premise is teams of 5th graders get asked questions about 50 books that they have read between them, meaning each kid should read about 7 books, but you can read more. You can also read less per kid; it's all up to the kids. My daughter read about 15 of the 50 books.

So, my daughter's team faced 3 other teams, one team at a time, and her team beat all 3 teams they faced... I am VERY HAPPY about that. A perfect score would be 120 points, but that would mean that your opponents answered every question wrong and your team then "stole" all their points by answering all the missed question by the other teams correctly.

Realistically, 70 points is FABULOUS..... The highest score achieved tonight was 67 points... my daughter's team scored 61, and had the 3rd most points overall.

So when it was over, my kids were told that their school won a "Blue Ribbon".... Which sounds cool, until you realize that teams that only score 45 also got a blue ribbon, as did the teams who scored above my daughter's team... From what I was told, EVERY team "won" a blue ribbon. I know I heard a lot of kids talking in the hallways about their team winning a blue ribbon.

Then over the PA system, the principal says "We have 2000 winners tonight, not a single loser in the bunch.".

This, IMO, is why the USA is backsliding. We reward losing with blue ribbons. Mediocrity is every bit as good as being awesome.... God forbid a kid doesn't learn how to lose. Kids today are not like kids from my era. We had winners. We had losers. We kept score! Can you imagine that? We kept score in athletics. The "mercy rule" in my baseball league was 12 runs in an inning, or 20 in a game. Besides the leagues that don't keep score, because "there are no losers here", ( That makes me want to shoot myself..... ) we have a league that does keep score, but the mercy rule is 4 runs...... Somebody else told me that when his kid's team started beating another team by too much, they turn the scoreboard around so the losing kids don't feel bad.

All you parents who won't let your kids learn the value of losing are only hurting your kids. America is becoming a country of sissies. We are hurting our kid's development all in the name of political correctness, and the desire that no kid should ever feel sad..... What a bunch of nonsense.

If you're a fat kid, and you're the last one picked... well, do something about it. If you are on a team that stinks, well, work to get better and learn from your failures. Nobody wins ALL THE TIME. But every time somebody tells a kid that "there are no losers here", well, you may have just turned a bunch of kids into potential losers IN LIFE.

Sorry for my rant, but I hate this "sissifying" of our country. Let your kids learn that there are winners and losers... PLEASE.

Well, I was the last one picked, too, and I wasn't the fat kid. The fat kid got picked ahead of me. I was clumsy. I have Asperger's, (a form of high-functioning autism) so I'm smart, and classes and tests were EASY for me, but my muscle coordination is very bad due to Asperger's so I'm not good at sports. Add to that that I have no depth perception, so I can't throw accurately or catch. No amount of practice will fix this. I am physically unable to tell where in space things are. And I did do what could be done about it. I was mercilessly teased because I looked like frankenstein after eye surgery that was supposed to fix my vison problems. It didn't, so I am still unable to tell where things are in space, still can't throw accurately or catch. What else would you suggest I do about it? Or do some people just deserve to be treated as losers because they are born losers?

nisijam5

Well, I was the last one picked, too, and I wasn't the fat kid. The fat kid got picked ahead of me. I was clumsy. I have Asperger's, (a form of high-functioning autism) so I'm smart, and classes and tests were EASY for me, but my muscle coordination is very bad due to Asperger's so I'm not good at sports. Add to that that I have no depth perception, so I can't throw accurately or catch. No amount of practice will fix this. I am physically unable to tell where in space things are. And I did do what could be done about it. I was mercilessly teased because I looked like frankenstein after eye surgery that was supposed to fix my vison problems. It didn't, so I am still unable to tell where things are in space, still can't throw accurately or catch. What else would you suggest I do about it? Or do some people just deserve to be treated as losers because they are born losers?

Doesn't mean you born a loser. It means you were born with or developed special needs. Maybe, you shouldn't have been set-up for failure if that is the case.

You tap into the talents someone has.

FitLink

You can't measure success without failure. There is no value in a scoring system if there are no losers in a competition.

But there is value, especially when a child is very young, in playing rather than competing, and learning without comparing. You can score tests based on knowledge--your dreaded "standardized testing," without assuming that for one kid to do well another kid has to do less well. Every kid CAN be a winner--especially acedemically. It IS possible for there to be winners without losers.

penrbrown

Well, I was the last one picked, too, and I wasn't the fat kid. The fat kid got picked ahead of me. I was clumsy. I have Asperger's, (a form of high-functioning autism) so I'm smart, and classes and tests were EASY for me, but my muscle coordination is very bad due to Asperger's so I'm not good at sports. Add to that that I have no depth perception, so I can't throw accurately or catch. No amount of practice will fix this. I am physically unable to tell where in space things are. And I did do what could be done about it. I was mercilessly teased because I looked like frankenstein after eye surgery that was supposed to fix my vison problems. It didn't, so I am still unable to tell where things are in space, still can't throw accurately or catch. What else would you suggest I do about it? Or do some people just deserve to be treated as losers because they are born losers?

You cannot excel at everything. I would suggest in your situation that you find the area where you ARE strong and work on that instead of worrying about whether or not you can win a medal doing something that is obviously not suited to you.

In the meantime, you can participate without needing rewards and just have fun with it instead of joining in an actual competition...

penrbrown

how is giving them a ribbon for participating coddling them???

how is it coddling six year olds to have them play a three hour t-ball game without declaring a winner or a loser???

I guess I'm just really different than y'all. And I'm pretty ok with that.

A participation ribbon is one thing... but no clear winner and loser and the same ribbon for everyone, whether they won or not IS coddling.

If it's a competition there is a winner and a loser. If it's just a demonstration then there is a participation ribbon for everyone.

Six year olds like to win just as much as adults. I remember participating in a skipping competition when I was 7 and I also remember how PROUD I was to place 26th... I also remember how devastated I was to get second place in the running competition... but win or lose I ENJOYED the competition and it pushed me to try harder and harder when I didn't win...

Rhea30

i disagree.

and my kid is awesome.

the only way you become a winner is to not let the failures beat you down and keep trying. What is the saying? Edison didn't fail 500 times, he found 500 ways to not make a lightbulb work.

How do they know they have failed if they are rewarded for failing? You can't learn how to keep on trying or what to do if you don't understand why you failed. They can always give out a cheap reward to the losers since they are kids and put time into reading but they should give something of a better value to those who won so they know the work they did is of value. A lesser value to those who didn't win so they know it was good they participated but need to step their game up. They should not all be winners if they truly didn't win. It would be like if Edison was satisfied with one of his tries to make the lightbulb so then he decided not to keep trying, why bother? He was already a winner with his failure.

FitLink

Well, I was the last one picked, too, and I wasn't the fat kid. The fat kid got picked ahead of me. I was clumsy. I have Asperger's, (a form of high-functioning autism) so I'm smart, and classes and tests were EASY for me, but my muscle coordination is very bad due to Asperger's so I'm not good at sports. Add to that that I have no depth perception, so I can't throw accurately or catch. No amount of practice will fix this. I am physically unable to tell where in space things are. And I did do what could be done about it. I was mercilessly teased because I looked like frankenstein after eye surgery that was supposed to fix my vison problems. It didn't, so I am still unable to tell where things are in space, still can't throw accurately or catch. What else would you suggest I do about it? Or do some people just deserve to be treated as losers because they are born losers?

Doesn't mean you born a loser. It means you were born with or developed special needs. Maybe, you shouldn't have been set-up for failure if that is the case.

You tap into the talents someone has.

All kids have special needs, not just those on the autism spectrum. All kids are different. It's possible, even desireable, to encourage kids to compare themselves to them selves, not to other kids, to measure success. You're not "sissifying" kids by asserting they can all be winners. They may not all BE winners, mind you, but it is absolutely true that they all can be.

BTW, I didn't know about my Asperger's when I was a kid. I was diagnosed as an adult. It explains a lot of the whys of my childhood, but, because my IQ is actually high (which isn't unusual with Asperger's) I received no special attention in school. I dreaded phys ed classes, where I'd be made fun of and explicitly called a "loser" regularly becaaquse of things I could do nothing about.

RobbieVigil

I agree, I think it doesn't give the kids who worked their *kitten* off their Just Due.

iHEARTcardiacnurses

I'm sorry for what you experienced. Thank you for defending me.

Ahhh and my job here is done. Look, at this ^^^ your own statement. Someone defended you on the internet. SO YES, YOU CAN BE DEFENDED ON THE INTERNET which is contrary to your own belief that each child is an island on the internet in a sea full of heartless sharks looking to tear them to bits.

I'm not a heartless person, if I was, I wouldn't be a nurse. I'm not sure where in my statements you got that I'm a heartless b!tch but you're clearly taking this topic entirely too personally for what was once a reasonable debate. This would probably be a good time to just step away from the computer and go play outside.