The "Sissifying" of America...
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I am all for winners and losers thing but I think the school was trying to get kids to read and work as teams more than anything. Maybe they should have given the top three teams gold, silver and bronze and all the others get blue ribbons.0
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Amen, brother!!!
I was never great at athletics, but academics were my strength. If my parents had lied to me and tried to make me believe that I was good at the things I wasn't....well, I wouldn't be where I am today.
Thank you for being the voice of reason. Failure is a valuable lesson learned. It's a painful one, but it is still valuable.
I wish my father was half as good as you are. Kudos, man!0 -
I'm amazed that some of you actually don't see anything wrong with giving all the kids the same blue ribbon. If a child does not have the ability to excel at something, that is the hand they were dealt.
This is the kind of stuff that causes people to think they are entitled to everything for doing nothing.
Couldn't have said it better myself.0 -
I am not an expert...but, olympians do train when they are children...MN hockey, kids start when they are 3, it's almost cult'ish and sad. But, that's the way it is.
Again, at least in America, BY CHOICE--at least their parent's choice, and I hope the kids have input. School activities are usually compusory, the fact remains that FIFTH GRADERS ARE NOT COMPELLED TO COMPETE IN THE OLYMPICS. Adolescents and adults CHOOSE to compete. That is the VERY IMPORTANT difference.0 -
So the take away from this thread is "there is only one winner" and "if you ain't winning, you're losing." That right? We should make fifth graders feel like losers no matter how hard they work unless they are the winner in a school event? BTW, the OP's daughter's team DIDN'T win--they were third. Losers?and if I didn't do well I didn't get put down about it0
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I'm amazed that some of you actually don't see anything wrong with giving all the kids the same blue ribbon. If a child does not have the ability to excel at something, that is the hand they were dealt.
This is the kind of stuff that causes people to think they are entitled to everything for doing nothing.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
A child who works very hard, and to the best of his/her ability, and still doesn't come in first, has not "done nothing." I am amazed that you don't see that children's rewards should be determined by trying rather than by coming in first.0 -
The kids who consistently beat me in sports in elementary school are not "better" than me any more than I am "better" than them because I kicked their butts on every test given throughout our entire school career.
I don't like your presumption that athletes aren't studious.0 -
So the take away from this thread is "there is only one winner" and "if you ain't winning, you're losing." That right? We should make fifth graders feel like losers no matter how hard they work unless they are the winner in a school event? BTW, the OP's daughter's team DIDN'T win--they were third. Losers?and if I didn't do well I didn't get put down about it
That's a put down? I'm not the one who said "if you ain't winning, you're losing." I assumed you and the OP felt it was appropriate to call the people who didn't win losers. And the OP's child? Hmmmm....didn't win.0 -
So, I attended a function my daughter had called the "Reading Olympics", last night. There were 2,000 5th graders from schools all over my area of the state. Basic premise is teams of 5th graders get asked questions about 50 books that they have read between them, meaning each kid should read about 7 books, but you can read more. You can also read less per kid; it's all up to the kids. My daughter read about 15 of the 50 books.
So, my daughter's team faced 3 other teams, one team at a time, and her team beat all 3 teams they faced... I am VERY HAPPY about that. A perfect score would be 120 points, but that would mean that your opponents answered every question wrong and your team then "stole" all their points by answering all the missed question by the other teams correctly.
Realistically, 70 points is FABULOUS..... The highest score achieved tonight was 67 points... my daughter's team scored 61, and had the 3rd most points overall.
So when it was over, my kids were told that their school won a "Blue Ribbon".... Which sounds cool, until you realize that teams that only score 45 also got a blue ribbon, as did the teams who scored above my daughter's team... From what I was told, EVERY team "won" a blue ribbon. I know I heard a lot of kids talking in the hallways about their team winning a blue ribbon.
Then over the PA system, the principal says "We have 2000 winners tonight, not a single loser in the bunch.".
This, IMO, is why the USA is backsliding. We reward losing with blue ribbons. Mediocrity is every bit as good as being awesome.... God forbid a kid doesn't learn how to lose. Kids today are not like kids from my era. We had winners. We had losers. We kept score! Can you imagine that? We kept score in athletics. The "mercy rule" in my baseball league was 12 runs in an inning, or 20 in a game. Besides the leagues that don't keep score, because "there are no losers here", ( That makes me want to shoot myself..... ) we have a league that does keep score, but the mercy rule is 4 runs...... Somebody else told me that when his kid's team started beating another team by too much, they turn the scoreboard around so the losing kids don't feel bad.
All you parents who won't let your kids learn the value of losing are only hurting your kids. America is becoming a country of sissies. We are hurting our kid's development all in the name of political correctness, and the desire that no kid should ever feel sad..... What a bunch of nonsense.
If you're a fat kid, and you're the last one picked... well, do something about it. If you are on a team that stinks, well, work to get better and learn from your failures. Nobody wins ALL THE TIME. But every time somebody tells a kid that "there are no losers here", well, you may have just turned a bunch of kids into potential losers IN LIFE.
Sorry for my rant, but I hate this "sissifying" of our country. Let your kids learn that there are winners and losers... PLEASE.
Liberalism at it's peak! I agree with Mike in saying, Liberalism is a mental disorder. Seriously, it's ruining this country.0 -
If you look back, that was a direct statement about life - not sport. Very different scenarios.So the take away from this thread is "there is only one winner" and "if you ain't winning, you're losing." That right? We should make fifth graders feel like losers no matter how hard they work unless they are the winner in a school event? BTW, the OP's daughter's team DIDN'T win--they were third. Losers?and if I didn't do well I didn't get put down about it
That's a put down? I'm not the one who said "if you ain't winning, you're losing." I assumed you and the OP felt it was appropriate to call the people who didn't win losers. And the OP's child? Hmmmm....didn't win.0 -
As the late and great George Carlin once said:
"You're a fu***** loser Bobby"
He said this of course in the context that everybody should hear this, it allows for personal growth!
Exactly. I was only told I did well when I did extremely well, and it taught me the difference between being great and being just okay. It didn't hurt me or stunt my growth in any way. In fact, it did the opposite--I learned to push myself even harder because I knew what I was capable of. Kids need to learn to be proud of THEMSELVES instead of relying on others for round-the-clock positive reinforcement, because life isn't going to hand you a cookie or give you a pat on the back every time you do something well.0 -
Disagree. Regardless of what ribbons and medals were handed out the kids KNOW who won and who lost. Give them more credit. They are not as stupid their parents. Achknowledging the value of participation does not make you a sissy.0
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The kids who consistently beat me in sports in elementary school are not "better" than me any more than I am "better" than them because I kicked their butts on every test given throughout our entire school career.
I don't like your presumption that athletes aren't studious.
The kids in question, if you read my posts, weren't athletes. As an aspie with severe vision problems I was easily beat by every kid in the class. Because I also am intellectually gifted, I was able to beat every kid in my class academically, without working very hard. I said nothing about athlete's academic ability.
The fact remains, I kicked their *kitten* academically, athletes or not.0 -
I don't have children, but I can't imagine how a child is going to feel when they grow up and get their education, and then their first job. Or, attempt at getting their first job. They will not be used to the feeling of rejection and "not winning" a job. It seems like it is going to backfire so incredibly bad in regard to people developing depression and other mental instabilities.
And since I am 32 years old now, 10 or 20 years from now when I will have advanced in my career and have younger people working under me, I can already see how that is not going to work out so well. People wanting all of their ideas to be accepted, their work to always be considered excellent, etc. And the bearer of bad news will be the witch.0 -
You can reward kids for trying, sure. But maybe you should also teach them how to succeed, and the consequences of failure as well...0
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If you look back, that was a direct statement about life - not sport. Very different scenarios.So the take away from this thread is "there is only one winner" and "if you ain't winning, you're losing." That right? We should make fifth graders feel like losers no matter how hard they work unless they are the winner in a school event? BTW, the OP's daughter's team DIDN'T win--they were third. Losers?and if I didn't do well I didn't get put down about it
That's a put down? I'm not the one who said "if you ain't winning, you're losing." I assumed you and the OP felt it was appropriate to call the people who didn't win losers. And the OP's child? Hmmmm....didn't win.
But the OP was talking about a competition, not "life." CHILDREN should be rewarded for participation and effort, not winning and losing, because it IS a very different scenario from either the competitions of adolescents and adults AND the adult world. Indeed, that is my ENTIRE point.0 -
You can reward kids for trying, sure. But maybe you should also teach them how to succeed, and the consequences of failure as well...
"...consequences of failure..." ?!? at 10YO?!? If a child has done the best s/he can, s/he HAS succeeded, whatever the score...0 -
It's crap like this that also makes school uniforms a requirement,at my sons school they flat out said its so kids who can't afford designer clothes don't feel bad. Ridiculous and stupid. So now some kids have designer kahkie pants and some don't,so it didn't solve a damn thing except suck all sense of individualty away0
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If you look back, that was a direct statement about life - not sport. Very different scenarios.So the take away from this thread is "there is only one winner" and "if you ain't winning, you're losing." That right? We should make fifth graders feel like losers no matter how hard they work unless they are the winner in a school event? BTW, the OP's daughter's team DIDN'T win--they were third. Losers?and if I didn't do well I didn't get put down about it
That's a put down? I'm not the one who said "if you ain't winning, you're losing." I assumed you and the OP felt it was appropriate to call the people who didn't win losers. And the OP's child? Hmmmm....didn't win.
But the OP was talking about a competition, not "life." CHILDREN should be rewarded for participation and effort, not winning and losing, because it IS a very different scenario from either the competitions of adolescents and adults AND the adult world. Indeed, that is my ENTIRE point.
At what chronological age does one suddenly become an adult where now the entire paradigm of life can change and it be accepted and understood?0 -
I was at a kid's birthday party where the parents wouldn't let their child open his presents in front of his friends because the other kids would get jealous. Kids need to learn they are not the center of the universe, not always first place, not number 1 in the view of the world. I think is the result is these younger generations (my generation included) where people have a sense of entitlement. Not good life skills.0
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Ok. I think I finally smell what y'all are sniffing at. I know a woman (about 22) who seems to think she deserves everything regardless of her lack of effort. To me, this isn't the result of participation awards handed out at events as much as its the result of the kind of parents who say things like "that teacher doesn't know what they are talking about! You deserve an A!" and argue with the school (or use their status) to have grades changed rather than tell the kid to try to learn something. I saw this same sort of character at the university where I saw the suicides- those kids were usually the kids of wealthy well known high status parents and felt a sense of entitlement.... Which, unfortunately, they actually had as their parents donated thousands to the universities annually......not that it'll make a rats *kitten* a difference when they are looking for a job and they are as unprofessional as the woman I know....
But I caution how people talk about this because emotional abuse in the form of negligence happens and has serious consequences for our youth. If you think a nation of sissies is bad, try a nation of drop outs and addicts0 -
for very little kids, I support the "everyone gets a ribbon", after 2nd grade, if they lose, they lose.0
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It's crap like this that also makes school uniforms a requirement,at my sons school they flat out said its so kids who can't afford designer clothes don't feel bad. Ridiculous and stupid. So now some kids have designer kahkie pants and some don't,so it didn't solve a damn thing except suck all sense of individualty away
Since this thread is about competition, I assume you think kids "competing" over clothes proves something? That the "winners" in the "individuality" competition are somehow "better?" In sports competitions people also wear uniforms--it promotes team spirit.0 -
I totally agree. School's are taking "fairness" WAY too far...Life is not fair, and kids should learn that hard work and persistence is the only way.
This whole "no child left behind" thing is total BS!
Don't know what it's like in the US, but here in NS, Canada...no child, no matter how terrible they do in school gets held back a year. Every kid passes, no matter what.
Why the hell would they even try then ??
The World will end up with people too stupid to flip a burger.0 -
I use the term in your topic too, but let's just say it's not as "PC". I could go into a three page diatribe here but I'll just say that I TOTALLY agree with you. Kids are going to grow up and not know how to deal with failure. Because they're being told how "special" they are all the time they're going to grow up and be self entitled brats (a la the Occupy movement). It's so absolutely ridiculous and I feel sorry for kids and parents these days.0
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If you look back, that was a direct statement about life - not sport. Very different scenarios.So the take away from this thread is "there is only one winner" and "if you ain't winning, you're losing." That right? We should make fifth graders feel like losers no matter how hard they work unless they are the winner in a school event? BTW, the OP's daughter's team DIDN'T win--they were third. Losers?and if I didn't do well I didn't get put down about it
That's a put down? I'm not the one who said "if you ain't winning, you're losing." I assumed you and the OP felt it was appropriate to call the people who didn't win losers. And the OP's child? Hmmmm....didn't win.
But the OP was talking about a competition, not "life." CHILDREN should be rewarded for participation and effort, not winning and losing, because it IS a very different scenario from either the competitions of adolescents and adults AND the adult world. Indeed, that is my ENTIRE point.
At what chronological age does one suddenly become an adult where now the entire paradigm of life can change and it be accepted and understood?
Like everything else age-related, it's hard to put a number on it. I see another poster who puts that number at 2nd grade. I place it in high school, possibly junior high. But absolutely there is some age, below which, one rewards for participation and effort, not raw score. Key to this is how "voluntary" the competition is. If everyone must participate, as in school events or phys ed class, effort counts for more than score. Even in junior high, if kids participate in extracurricular sports and activities, these appropriately have winners and losers.0 -
Like everything else age-related, it's hard to put a number on it. I see another poster who puts that number at 2nd grade. I place it in high school, possibly junior high. But absolutely there is some age, below which, one rewards for participation and effort, not raw score. Key to this is how "voluntary" the competition is. If everyone must participate, as in school events or phys ed class, effort counts for more than score. Even in junior high, if kids participate in extracurricular sports and activities, these appropriately have winners and losers.
You just proved my point...there is no one age fits all so assuming your theory was correct it is impossible to actually apply.
Secondly there are competitions that occur all through school in phys ed and otherwise where there is no choice of participation.
What you advocate sounds great in a coffee room discussion but creates havoc when introduced into the real world.
Maturity comes to people as they grow and experience life,it is not something that needs to be nor successfully can be scripted or managed.
Part of lifes experience is failure and disappointment as well as success and happiness.
If you do all you can to remove those things from the maturing process you have a person in their teens or even older that have not advanced beyond the tantrum stage of childhood.
Give kids credit for the ability to grow up without their hands held into adulthood,they will be just fine for the most part and capable of leading productive lives.0 -
And my point was that children need to be prepared for life by experiencing failure as well as success.
If you look back, that was a direct statement about life - not sport. Very different scenarios.So the take away from this thread is "there is only one winner" and "if you ain't winning, you're losing." That right? We should make fifth graders feel like losers no matter how hard they work unless they are the winner in a school event? BTW, the OP's daughter's team DIDN'T win--they were third. Losers?and if I didn't do well I didn't get put down about it
That's a put down? I'm not the one who said "if you ain't winning, you're losing." I assumed you and the OP felt it was appropriate to call the people who didn't win losers. And the OP's child? Hmmmm....didn't win.
But the OP was talking about a competition, not "life." CHILDREN should be rewarded for participation and effort, not winning and losing, because it IS a very different scenario from either the competitions of adolescents and adults AND the adult world. Indeed, that is my ENTIRE point.0 -
And my point was that children need to be prepared for life by experiencing failure as well as success.
If you look back, that was a direct statement about life - not sport. Very different scenarios.So the take away from this thread is "there is only one winner" and "if you ain't winning, you're losing." That right? We should make fifth graders feel like losers no matter how hard they work unless they are the winner in a school event? BTW, the OP's daughter's team DIDN'T win--they were third. Losers?and if I didn't do well I didn't get put down about it
That's a put down? I'm not the one who said "if you ain't winning, you're losing." I assumed you and the OP felt it was appropriate to call the people who didn't win losers. And the OP's child? Hmmmm....didn't win.
But the OP was talking about a competition, not "life." CHILDREN should be rewarded for participation and effort, not winning and losing, because it IS a very different scenario from either the competitions of adolescents and adults AND the adult world. Indeed, that is my ENTIRE point.
But this is about a school event at which there were "no losers." Clearly kids experienced failure and kids experienced success. Kids were rewarded for participation rather than having a larger number of successes than another child.
Perhaps we should teach kids about failure by having 8 year olds compete with university students in advanced mathematics. Many if not most of the 8 year olds will lose this competition, so it seems perfect for teaching them about failure. That it's not fair is irrelevant too, since "life isn't fair." Kids abilities are very individual, and you can't just assume equal ability at equal age. Especially in elementary school, the winner isn't necessarily, or even likely, the kid who worked hardest. Why should the kid nature gifted with more natural ability get more reward than the the one who worked hardest, and more importantly, since "if you ain't winning, you're losing," why should that hard worker be called the loser?0 -
No, this is about the sissification of America (and to a lesser extent, the Western world in general) and the OP's example was a contextual anecdote.But this is about a school event at which there were "no losers." Clearly kids experienced failure and kids experienced success. Kids were rewarded for participation rather than having a larger number of successes than another child.0
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