What will make you fatter...?

grinch031

If you don't believe in set points, then there is no reason for us to discuss this any further with you.

I just don't believed is some kind of mystical being that controls my body weight and where dedicated exercise and dieting protocal doesn't exist. i remember the days when I believed I couldn't change how I look or felt, but thankfully those days are in the past.

I don't believe this either, so we do have one thing in common.

jcstanton

Surely the fat would make you fatter if you were still ingesting enough carbs to allow your body to do it's thang, carbs being the preferred fuel?

Imma go with fat! Going to follow this topic, hopefully I'll learn something!

Wouldn't all the carbs you were overeating lead to crazy spiking of insulin, turning you into a fat storing monster? Thought I read somewhere that carbs ---->insulin spike---->fat gain

^^^I'm more inclined to think this way, but I am insulin resistant to begin with, so carbs (especially processed carbs) are a big no-no for me.

ArroganceInStep

I wonder if the people claiming the 1000 cals of fat is different from 1000 cals of carbs also correct people who say muscle is heavier than fat since clearly 1lb of muscle to 1lb of fat was assumed and not weight by volume.

AlsDonkBoxSquat

Carbs, because they would inevitably have gluten, to which I am terribly intollerant. So, while it would give me a month of "the runs", I know it would still make me more bloated . . . giving me gurth.

If we're talking 1000 calories of just carbs, would gluten be an issue? Gluten is a protein, isn't it?

I wasn't talking about everyone, I was talking specifically about ME and the way that MY body processes the gluten protein as most often found in wheat. I PERSONALLY would have a difficult time upping my calories by 1000 calories per day in pure carb and avoiding wheat . . . mostly out of temptation.

agthorn

I'm going to go with the variations in TEF and throw my hat in the "gain more weight with 1000 cals of fat" ring. Source: The thermic effect of carbohydrate versus fat feeding in man http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0026049585900149

grinch031

Acg, another thing I don't understand is why fasting insulin levels were so different in lean individuals on Day 0 between CHO and Fat overfeeders. Wasn't this before the overfeeding began?

Acg67

Acg, another thing I don't understand is why fasting insulin levels were so different in lean individuals on Day 0 between CHO and Fat overfeeders. Wasn't this before the overfeeding began?

That is a good question and isn't brought up in the study, I'll have to think why that could be.

grinch031

Found this when I was looking for an external analysis on the study, for anyone who cares.

http://ramblingsofacarnivore.blogspot.com/

kperk91

In a seminar for my biology course, we learned the effects of a high fat diet on the production of insulin. An insulin problem is the cause of type 2 diabetes.

songbyrdsweet

In a healthy individual, your body will shift to oxidize whatever you're feeding it. However, obese individuals are metabolically inflexible, meaning they primarily oxidize glucose regardless of whether they're being challenged with a high-fat meal. So those FA's are stored rather than being oxidized.

songbyrdsweet

Plus there's the whole gut-brain-liver axis wherein high-fat feeding promotes the release of endotoxin from the intestines via chylomicron binding and gut permeability...that's a whole 'nother' can of worms.

grinch031

Acg, another thing I don't understand is why fasting insulin levels were so different in lean individuals on Day 0 between CHO and Fat overfeeders. Wasn't this before the overfeeding began?

That is a good question and isn't brought up in the study, I'll have to think why that could be.

You still haven't answered my other question. Can you explain in your own words why there seems to be a contradiction between Figures 1 and 2 when looking at Table 2. True or false, the dieters gained the same amount of fat mass on both fat and CHO overfeeding? If so, how is it possible that CHO overfeeding led to higher total energy expenditure?

LabRat529

Let's assume you are currently maintaining on 2,000 calories a day 50/30/20 C/F/P and you were to overeat consistently by 1,000 calories of either pure carbs or pure fat for a month, which would make you fatter, or would there be no difference and why?

Curious as to what people think. I've seen people state that anything over 15g of cho in a meal will be stored as fat or that fat makes you fat etc etc. So which is worse to overeat, carbs or fats or does it not matter?

Just saw this. Didn't read the comments following. But it's an interesting question and I don't know the answer for sure, but I'm gonna guess 1000 calories of excess fat because you can skip the conversion step needed to make carbs into fat.

Now I'll read the responses and see if anyone has anything interesting to say.

songbyrdsweet

Let's assume you are currently maintaining on 2,000 calories a day 50/30/20 C/F/P and you were to overeat consistently by 1,000 calories of either pure carbs or pure fat for a month, which would make you fatter, or would there be no difference and why?

Curious as to what people think. I've seen people state that anything over 15g of cho in a meal will be stored as fat or that fat makes you fat etc etc. So which is worse to overeat, carbs or fats or does it not matter?

Just saw this. Didn't read the comments following. But it's an interesting question and I don't know the answer for sure, but I'm gonna guess 1000 calories of excess fat because you can skip the conversion step needed to make carbs into fat.

Now I'll read the responses and see if anyone has anything interesting to say.

But, fat isn't as insulogenic. But carbs don't increase plasma endotoxin. But the binding of endotoxin to chylomicrons destines it for the liver where it will be acetylated and filtered. And mice on high-sucrose, high-fat diets don't experience that chylomicron filtration to the same extent. AHHHHH *brain explosion*

neanderthin

Acg, another thing I don't understand is why fasting insulin levels were so different in lean individuals on Day 0 between CHO and Fat overfeeders. Wasn't this before the overfeeding began?

That is a good question and isn't brought up in the study, I'll have to think why that could be.

I'm assuming naturally lean individuals have lower and better regulated insulin levels than overweight individuals.

grinch031

Acg, another thing I don't understand is why fasting insulin levels were so different in lean individuals on Day 0 between CHO and Fat overfeeders. Wasn't this before the overfeeding began?

That is a good question and isn't brought up in the study, I'll have to think why that could be.

I'm assuming naturally lean individuals have lower and better regulated insulin levels than overweight individuals.

If insulin has nothing to do with obesity, then why would you think that?

And can you answer the question I am still confused about? It seems like CHO overfeeding defies the laws of physics, unless someone can help me explain the discrepancy.

songbyrdsweet

Acg, another thing I don't understand is why fasting insulin levels were so different in lean individuals on Day 0 between CHO and Fat overfeeders. Wasn't this before the overfeeding began?

That is a good question and isn't brought up in the study, I'll have to think why that could be.

I'm assuming naturally lean individuals have lower and better regulated insulin levels than overweight individuals.

If insulin has nothing to do with obesity, then why would you think that?

And can you answer the question I am still confused about? It seems like CHO overfeeding defies the laws of physics, unless someone can help me explain the discrepancy.

Lean individuals DO have better insulin sensitivity. CHO is needed to make oxaloacetate (OAA)...well, not totally necessary, but the more the merrier....anyway, OAA is required for fat oxidation. But I didn't look at the study and I can't be arsed to look at any scientific paper I don't need to. :laugh: There are a lot of reasons fat and CHO influence your metabolism. I for one believe it's gut-regulated...you have TRILLIONS of bacteria in your gut with a genome 100 times greater than your own. Those little guys can do a number on you.

neanderthin

Acg, another thing I don't understand is why fasting insulin levels were so different in lean individuals on Day 0 between CHO and Fat overfeeders. Wasn't this before the overfeeding began?

That is a good question and isn't brought up in the study, I'll have to think why that could be.

I'm assuming naturally lean individuals have lower and better regulated insulin levels than overweight individuals.

If insulin has nothing to do with obesity, then why would you think that?

And can you answer the question I am still confused about? It seems like CHO overfeeding defies the laws of physics, unless someone can help me explain the discrepancy.

The variances in insulin sensitivity and other personal metabolic behaviours are all taken into account on the outside of the energy balance equation. It's the reason carb sensitive people eat fewer carbs like people that have diabetes, PCOS etc, not to be confused with the thought that somehow lower carbs has a metabolic advantage. I eat few carbs because it helps me regulate my eating patterns so I don't overfeed on carbs I can believe for me that lower carbs have a meaning in my weight loss goal (satiating) and it's a more natural way of eating for me now.

grinch031

Acg, another thing I don't understand is why fasting insulin levels were so different in lean individuals on Day 0 between CHO and Fat overfeeders. Wasn't this before the overfeeding began?

That is a good question and isn't brought up in the study, I'll have to think why that could be.

I'm assuming naturally lean individuals have lower and better regulated insulin levels than overweight individuals.

If insulin has nothing to do with obesity, then why would you think that?

And can you answer the question I am still confused about? It seems like CHO overfeeding defies the laws of physics, unless someone can help me explain the discrepancy.

The variances in insulin sensitivity and other personal metabolic behaviours are all taken into account on the outside of the energy balance equation. It's the reason carb sensitive people eat fewer carbs like people that have diabetes, PCOS etc, not to be confused with the thought that somehow lower carbs has a metabolic advantage. I eat few carbs because it helps me regulate my eating patterns so I don't overfeed on carbs I can believe for me that lower carbs have a meaning in my weight loss goal (satiating) and it's a more natural way of eating for me now.

But do you think insulin has anything to do with your eating patterns as it pertains to carbs? The consensus on this forum is that the majority of obese people have no problem with carbs or insulin at all, and that the number of people who do is so small that it shouldn't even be mentioned as a possibility most of the time. Do you take that stance as well?

Nich0le

It depends on the type of fats and carbs but I'm going with carbs. Chronically elevated levels of insulin from over consumption of carbs will lead to more fat storage. Insulin regulates our fat metabolism, the higher the insulin levels the higher fat content in our bodies.

Fat may have more calories per gram than carbs but fat makes us feel full sooner and causes a slow rise in blood sugar, if any at all, so we can fill up on less basically.