Bye Bye Death Penalty

doorki

We all should have learned it by kindergarten: two wrongs don't make a right. It works for big stuff too.

You are so right. We should just have murderers sit in the corner!!!

isn't that what prison is?

Exactly! Repeating a punishment that didn't work when they were 5, but at a HUGE expense to the taxpayers.

I'd rather them be in jail than the people in there for drug offenses. Let's just think about how much money the "war on drugs" costs and how the jails are overcrowded because of it and then talk about cost cutting in the prison system

Yes as a different subject, the war on drugs is beyond stupid. We should legalize drugs and realistically the crime associated with it, along with the cost disappears almost overnight.

I still think that those that are willing to go out and commit horrible acts against innocent people should be punished harshly, up to and including death.

think of all the money that would flow into the economy is drugs were legalized and regulated like alcohol and tobacco. I think I just solved the economic crisis :laugh:

It's TRUE! I am willing to bet that most people, given the choice would prefer to go buy a joint from the local store than deal with a pot dealer. Leagalize it and regulate it like alcohol. It's so stupid to claim that one person's vice (alcohol, tobacco) is better than another, especially when the crime is all involved with the posession of said drug.

Meth however is a different story, THAT is some scary ****.

I'm confused...I am now agreeing with you.

Sockimobi

I live in Britain where we do not have the dealth penalty, but I believe that in the circumstances where it can be proven that the person actually did commit the crime (notably murder, paedophilia, rape etc) that they should have the option to put them to death. I still remember what two ten year old boys did to a two year old (they didn't just murder him, they beat and tortured him then left his dead body on the railway tracks for a train to bisect). Were they put away for life (which was their jail term)? Oh no, they were put in "young offenders units" and and probably learnt a whole deal more crime then were released when they were about 19 WITH NEW IDENTITIES!!!!!!! One of whom reoffended within 2 years of being freed (caught with child porn). To think of what they were capable of at 10 and then to find out that one of them anyway has not been in any way rehabilitated proves that they should not have been allowed to live. In this day and age we have enough scientific ability to basically prove to almost 100% if that person comitted the crime, so there would be less likelihood of the wrong person being executed.

When would these killers have been put to death? At the age of 10 when they committed their crime? Or at 18 for something they did when they were just 10 years old?

naku

I don't know what the specifics are for the places I've lived...you know, since I've never been on death row, I haven't been compelled enough to research it.

BUT I believe that the person should not ONLY BE KILLED if they take someone's life....they should be killed in the same manner!

Shooting, stabbing, choking, burning, beating, dismembering, decapitation....whatever the case may be.

I bet won't like it either.

and this ^ I totally agree, I think there are some real sick freaks out there and they deserve the same pain and torture that they gave out.

Without going into how disturbing this whole comment is..... I would like to point out the keyword in it: SICK.

Sicker than you being raped and murdered? Sicker than your mother and father's house being broke into and them shot at point blank range by some hoodlums all for the jewels in the jewelry box? Sicker than your daughter walking home late at night and your neighbor taking her into the basement, raping her, beating her, starving her then letting her die a slow and painful death while he rapes her degrading body every night before he goes to bed and wakes up to wave good morning to you in the driveway?

The crimes FAR outweigh the idea or thought of punishing someone by killing them. Sorry it does. If you think it is sick to kill someone because they harmed innocent people. Well, then I think you are sick.

Oops you just missed the point completely. Yes those things are sick, that is my point exactly. The person committing them is sick. They need medical care and to be kept away from others they might be of harm to. Not killed.

Not everyone that commits crimes is sick mentally in such a manner that they can be treated. Some people, whether some of you choose to believe it or not are just plain evil.

While bumping the scale up to 11, I'm sure that nobody would disagree that Hitler was evil, and he deserved to die (unfortunately by his own hand), though people that just think murders and rapists are sick would probably have tried to rehabilitate him and let him out early for good behavior. :explode:

I completely agree with you that not all and not even many offenders of crimes of the level we are talking about can be "treated" in a way that they will ever become a productive part of the society. In those cases they should be kept in medical care/imprisonment for the rest of their lives. Not killed.

Marll

We all should have learned it by kindergarten: two wrongs don't make a right. It works for big stuff too.

You are so right. We should just have murderers sit in the corner!!!

isn't that what prison is?

Exactly! Repeating a punishment that didn't work when they were 5, but at a HUGE expense to the taxpayers.

I'd rather them be in jail than the people in there for drug offenses. Let's just think about how much money the "war on drugs" costs and how the jails are overcrowded because of it and then talk about cost cutting in the prison system

Yes as a different subject, the war on drugs is beyond stupid. We should legalize drugs and realistically the crime associated with it, along with the cost disappears almost overnight.

I still think that those that are willing to go out and commit horrible acts against innocent people should be punished harshly, up to and including death.

think of all the money that would flow into the economy is drugs were legalized and regulated like alcohol and tobacco. I think I just solved the economic crisis :laugh:

It's TRUE! I am willing to bet that most people, given the choice would prefer to go buy a joint from the local store than deal with a pot dealer. Leagalize it and regulate it like alcohol. It's so stupid to claim that one person's vice (alcohol, tobacco) is better than another, especially when the crime is all involved with the posession of said drug.

Meth however is a different story, THAT is some scary ****.

I'm confused...I am now agreeing with you.

Probably because it makes logical sense.

Icedancer94

I'm for it... but I live in England, so...

cynthiaj777

I don't know what the specifics are for the places I've lived...you know, since I've never been on death row, I haven't been compelled enough to research it.

BUT I believe that the person should not ONLY BE KILLED if they take someone's life....they should be killed in the same manner!

Shooting, stabbing, choking, burning, beating, dismembering, decapitation....whatever the case may be.

I bet won't like it either.

and this ^ I totally agree, I think there are some real sick freaks out there and they deserve the same pain and torture that they gave out.

Without going into how disturbing this whole comment is..... I would like to point out the keyword in it: SICK.

Sicker than you being raped and murdered? Sicker than your mother and father's house being broke into and them shot at point blank range by some hoodlums all for the jewels in the jewelry box? Sicker than your daughter walking home late at night and your neighbor taking her into the basement, raping her, beating her, starving her then letting her die a slow and painful death while he rapes her degrading body every night before he goes to bed and wakes up to wave good morning to you in the driveway?

The crimes FAR outweigh the idea or thought of punishing someone by killing them. Sorry it does. If you think it is sick to kill someone because they harmed innocent people. Well, then I think you are sick.

Oops you just missed the point completely. Yes those things are sick, that is my point exactly. The person committing them is sick. They need medical care and to be kept away from others they might be of harm to. Not killed.

Not everyone that commits crimes is sick mentally in such a manner that they can be treated. Some people, whether some of you choose to believe it or not are just plain evil.

While bumping the scale up to 11, I'm sure that nobody would disagree that Hitler was evil, and he deserved to die (unfortunately by his own hand), though people that just think murders and rapists are sick would probably have tried to rehabilitate him and let him out early for good behavior. :explode:

Very true. The US prison system is not set up to rehabilitate. The prison system is almost solely used to keep criminals detained. I've done massive research in this area. I've pulled statistics, and I have summarized them in a masters paper in order to graduate (not a thesis but close). The US has one of the highest, if not the highest (since I researched mostly US), recidivism rates in the world. The war on drugs has not only caused an overpopulation of prisons for fairly minor crimes, but laws have further caused overcrowding. Here's a quote from my paper. "[t]he Sentencing Reform Act, which dramatically changed the sentencing structure for criminals in the United States [was passed in 1984]. This law created mandatory minimum sentencing for a variety of crimes regardless of mitigating factors or the severity of an individual’s crime (Austin and Coventry 1). According the Department of Justice, from 1991 to 2001, the prison population doubled in the United States due to the mandatory minimum sentencing law." THIS LAW WAS LOBBIED FOR BY WHO? Private prisons to make money! Create a plethora of people needing to use their services!

End story: prisons don't rehabilitate. That's not what they are in the market for. I MIGHT believe it is possible IF the prison system was completely overhauled. Until then, I am FOR capital punishment for the ones who kill others.

NakedLunchTime

I cannot believe some people here are for the death penalty ! You are nobody in order to decide a price to put on the life of someone else! Moreover, the states with death penalty don't have a lower crime rate. I bet you guys didn't know about this. Also, people who get the death penalty will spend sometimes up to 10 years in the death row.
This is not an example to criminals: "don't kill or else you will get executed"!!
I cannot believe some of you here still have conservative thoughts about this barbar procedure!!!

You really can't believe some people are for the death penalty? That statement surprises me more. There will almost always be people for or against the topic in question. It's the way it is.

doorki

We all should have learned it by kindergarten: two wrongs don't make a right. It works for big stuff too.

You are so right. We should just have murderers sit in the corner!!!

isn't that what prison is?

Exactly! Repeating a punishment that didn't work when they were 5, but at a HUGE expense to the taxpayers.

I'd rather them be in jail than the people in there for drug offenses. Let's just think about how much money the "war on drugs" costs and how the jails are overcrowded because of it and then talk about cost cutting in the prison system

Yes as a different subject, the war on drugs is beyond stupid. We should legalize drugs and realistically the crime associated with it, along with the cost disappears almost overnight.

I still think that those that are willing to go out and commit horrible acts against innocent people should be punished harshly, up to and including death.

think of all the money that would flow into the economy is drugs were legalized and regulated like alcohol and tobacco. I think I just solved the economic crisis :laugh:

It's TRUE! I am willing to bet that most people, given the choice would prefer to go buy a joint from the local store than deal with a pot dealer. Leagalize it and regulate it like alcohol. It's so stupid to claim that one person's vice (alcohol, tobacco) is better than another, especially when the crime is all involved with the posession of said drug.

Meth however is a different story, THAT is some scary ****.

I'm confused...I am now agreeing with you.

Probably because it makes logical sense.

I agree with you on drugs but I can't on the death penalty :drinker:

emma110984

I live in Britain where we do not have the dealth penalty, but I believe that in the circumstances where it can be proven that the person actually did commit the crime (notably murder, paedophilia, rape etc) that they should have the option to put them to death. I still remember what two ten year old boys did to a two year old (they didn't just murder him, they beat and tortured him then left his dead body on the railway tracks for a train to bisect). Were they put away for life (which was their jail term)? Oh no, they were put in "young offenders units" and and probably learnt a whole deal more crime then were released when they were about 19 WITH NEW IDENTITIES!!!!!!! One of whom reoffended within 2 years of being freed (caught with child porn). To think of what they were capable of at 10 and then to find out that one of them anyway has not been in any way rehabilitated proves that they should not have been allowed to live. In this day and age we have enough scientific ability to basically prove to almost 100% if that person comitted the crime, so there would be less likelihood of the wrong person being executed.

When would these killers have been put to death? At the age of 10 when they committed their crime? Or at 18 for something they did when they were just 10 years old?

I found myself thinking the same thing... yeah let's kill 10 year olds!!!

Marll

I don't know what the specifics are for the places I've lived...you know, since I've never been on death row, I haven't been compelled enough to research it.

BUT I believe that the person should not ONLY BE KILLED if they take someone's life....they should be killed in the same manner!

Shooting, stabbing, choking, burning, beating, dismembering, decapitation....whatever the case may be.

I bet won't like it either.

and this ^ I totally agree, I think there are some real sick freaks out there and they deserve the same pain and torture that they gave out.

Without going into how disturbing this whole comment is..... I would like to point out the keyword in it: SICK.

Sicker than you being raped and murdered? Sicker than your mother and father's house being broke into and them shot at point blank range by some hoodlums all for the jewels in the jewelry box? Sicker than your daughter walking home late at night and your neighbor taking her into the basement, raping her, beating her, starving her then letting her die a slow and painful death while he rapes her degrading body every night before he goes to bed and wakes up to wave good morning to you in the driveway?

The crimes FAR outweigh the idea or thought of punishing someone by killing them. Sorry it does. If you think it is sick to kill someone because they harmed innocent people. Well, then I think you are sick.

Oops you just missed the point completely. Yes those things are sick, that is my point exactly. The person committing them is sick. They need medical care and to be kept away from others they might be of harm to. Not killed.

Not everyone that commits crimes is sick mentally in such a manner that they can be treated. Some people, whether some of you choose to believe it or not are just plain evil.

While bumping the scale up to 11, I'm sure that nobody would disagree that Hitler was evil, and he deserved to die (unfortunately by his own hand), though people that just think murders and rapists are sick would probably have tried to rehabilitate him and let him out early for good behavior. :explode:

I completely agree with you that not all and not even many offenders of crimes of the level we are talking about can be "treated" in a way that they will ever become a productive part of the society. In those cases they should be kept in medical care/imprisonment for the rest of their lives. Not killed.

I have a differerent world view I suppose. I'm not sure what types of attrocities you've seen in your lifetime, but I have seen enough to realize that many people are just not worth keeping alive. Life is a beautiful gift, and these offenders are the types that willingly go and snuff that out for no good reason at all, and yet they get to keep THEIR gift?

grinch031

I don't know what the specifics are for the places I've lived...you know, since I've never been on death row, I haven't been compelled enough to research it.

BUT I believe that the person should not ONLY BE KILLED if they take someone's life....they should be killed in the same manner!

Shooting, stabbing, choking, burning, beating, dismembering, decapitation....whatever the case may be.

I bet won't like it either.

and this ^ I totally agree, I think there are some real sick freaks out there and they deserve the same pain and torture that they gave out.

Without going into how disturbing this whole comment is..... I would like to point out the keyword in it: SICK.

Sicker than you being raped and murdered? Sicker than your mother and father's house being broke into and them shot at point blank range by some hoodlums all for the jewels in the jewelry box? Sicker than your daughter walking home late at night and your neighbor taking her into the basement, raping her, beating her, starving her then letting her die a slow and painful death while he rapes her degrading body every night before he goes to bed and wakes up to wave good morning to you in the driveway?

The crimes FAR outweigh the idea or thought of punishing someone by killing them. Sorry it does. If you think it is sick to kill someone because they harmed innocent people. Well, then I think you are sick.

Oops you just missed the point completely. Yes those things are sick, that is my point exactly. The person committing them is sick. They need medical care and to be kept away from others they might be of harm to. Not killed.

Not everyone that commits crimes is sick mentally in such a manner that they can be treated. Some people, whether some of you choose to believe it or not are just plain evil.

While bumping the scale up to 11, I'm sure that nobody would disagree that Hitler was evil, and he deserved to die (unfortunately by his own hand), though people that just think murders and rapists are sick would probably have tried to rehabilitate him and let him out early for good behavior. :explode:

How does one become evil? Its either they were born evil (not their fault), they become evil because of a hard life (not their fault), they become evil because of mental illness (not their fault), or the only option left is that they spontaneously decide out of nowhere that they want to be evil. This seems ludicrous to me and why I don't believe in evil. Since I don't believe in evil, I don't believe anyone deserves to die. What I do believe is people who commit violent acts do need to be dealt with, but it needs to be done in a just and humane way.

Sockimobi

I believe all rapists, child molestors, and people who kill innocent people should be put to death. I think people who oppose the death penalty are naive. Hopefully you are never touched by violent crime.. and then what? Beg for the perpetrator to be allowed to live? Really?

You are addressing people in this thread who do not agree with the death penalty who have already been touched by crimes that you deem worthy of the death penality.

How am I naive, exactly?

Taking another life and making their innocent families suffer makes me feel better how? I would really like to know.

It's you that I hope is never touched by any crime. Really.

fightingdissonance

Again, considering the high cost of living in the world today, where is the money coming from to do all that??
Oh, yea, that's right, we'll do what Europe does and TAX everyone at literally 40% of their gross income. T
hat;'ll fix everything.
Blame 'society'. Blame the victim. That means you blame ME, and I apologize, I'm not taking the blame for someone's mental illness which may or may NOT be attributable to SOCIETY..

Neither are most of the people in this country. AS far as I'm concerned, the system we have is as good as it's going to get. The only thing I would alter is to NOT allow deathrow inmates 30+ years to appeal. THAT would be abolished.

I consider these men and women to be collateral damage. That is the way EVERY country operates. You only don't hear about it in your country because they're better at HIDING it from their public.

So you're against the death penalty. Can you tell me your stance on abortion?
Watch carefully what you say. You could be on the verge of being a hypocrite.....

I'm not going to engage in an extended reactionary and inflammatory debate with you. However, abortion and the death penalty are two issues that are entirely separate from each other. To confirm what you seem to already think I will say, yes I am absolutely pro-choice, choice being the key word. My support of a woman's right to choose when to have a child does not exclude or detract from my opposition to the death penalty. They are two entirely different issues, only mixed when media outlets such as Fox News tell Americans they are one and the same.

Have you looked at the statistics on quality of life in countries with high tax rates? High taxation does not mean a poor quality of living, when done properly it's quite the opposite. How is the quality of life for many low-income people in the US right now, with your lower tax rates? Not very good, in large part thanks to the lack of a social safety net. This you find in properly managed countries with high taxation.

emma110984

I believe all rapists, child molestors, and people who kill innocent people should be put to death. I think people who oppose the death penalty are naive. Hopefully you are never touched by violent crime.. and then what? Beg for the perpetrator to be allowed to live? Really?

You are addressing people in this thread who do not agree with the death penalty who have already been touched by crimes that you deem worthy of the death penality.

How am I naive, exactly?

Taking another life and making their innocent families suffer makes me feel better how? I would really like to know.

It's you that I hope is never touched by any crime. Really.

^^^^^THIS EXACTLY!!

Its_All_Kung_Fu

indifferent:

You know, this is a fitness/health site....

I mention this because I'm sick of going to my home page and seeing the titles of topics not suited to the stated reason this. If you're bored, go work at a battered children's shelter, or do a beach clean-up....

The endless.... internet .....wrangling...does...absolutely...nothing constructive.

and there are at LEAST fifty (literally) other sites more suited to moral debate.

emma110984

BTW... I love a mass debate!

grinch031

I believe all rapists, child molestors, and people who kill innocent people should be put to death. I think people who oppose the death penalty are naive. Hopefully you are never touched by violent crime.. and then what? Beg for the perpetrator to be allowed to live? Really?

You are addressing people in this thread who do not agree with the death penalty who have already been touched by crimes that you deem worthy of the death penality.

How am I naive, exactly?

Taking another life and making their innocent families suffer makes me feel better how? I would really like to know.

It's you that I hope is never touched by any crime. Really.

Its naive when people use the 'wait til it happens to your family member', then you'll want the death penalty. Justice should be applied objectively, not based on someone's emotions.

I'd like to see what the proponents say when their father, brother, husband, son is falsely accused and put to death for a crime they didn't commit.

naku

I don't know what the specifics are for the places I've lived...you know, since I've never been on death row, I haven't been compelled enough to research it.

BUT I believe that the person should not ONLY BE KILLED if they take someone's life....they should be killed in the same manner!

Shooting, stabbing, choking, burning, beating, dismembering, decapitation....whatever the case may be.

I bet won't like it either.

and this ^ I totally agree, I think there are some real sick freaks out there and they deserve the same pain and torture that they gave out.

Without going into how disturbing this whole comment is..... I would like to point out the keyword in it: SICK.

Sicker than you being raped and murdered? Sicker than your mother and father's house being broke into and them shot at point blank range by some hoodlums all for the jewels in the jewelry box? Sicker than your daughter walking home late at night and your neighbor taking her into the basement, raping her, beating her, starving her then letting her die a slow and painful death while he rapes her degrading body every night before he goes to bed and wakes up to wave good morning to you in the driveway?

The crimes FAR outweigh the idea or thought of punishing someone by killing them. Sorry it does. If you think it is sick to kill someone because they harmed innocent people. Well, then I think you are sick.

Oops you just missed the point completely. Yes those things are sick, that is my point exactly. The person committing them is sick. They need medical care and to be kept away from others they might be of harm to. Not killed.

Not everyone that commits crimes is sick mentally in such a manner that they can be treated. Some people, whether some of you choose to believe it or not are just plain evil.

While bumping the scale up to 11, I'm sure that nobody would disagree that Hitler was evil, and he deserved to die (unfortunately by his own hand), though people that just think murders and rapists are sick would probably have tried to rehabilitate him and let him out early for good behavior. :explode:

I completely agree with you that not all and not even many offenders of crimes of the level we are talking about can be "treated" in a way that they will ever become a productive part of the society. In those cases they should be kept in medical care/imprisonment for the rest of their lives. Not killed.

I have a differerent world view I suppose. I'm not sure what types of attrocities you've seen in your lifetime, but I have seen enough to realize that many people are just not worth keeping alive. Life is a beautiful gift, and these offenders are the types that willingly go and snuff that out for no good reason at all, and yet they get to keep THEIR gift?

I do agree this is a fundamental difference in world views. And I do agree on the level of horrificness of some of these crimes. I just do not agree on the right of one person to kill another. In any case.

doorki

indifferent:

You know, this is a fitness/health site....

I mention this because I'm sick of going to my home page and seeing the titles of topics not suited to the stated reason this. If you're bored, go work at a battered children's shelter, or do a beach clean-up....

The endless.... internet .....wrangling...does...absolutely...nothing constructive.

and there are at LEAST fifty (literally) other sites more suited to moral debate.

Moral debates in the chit-chat forum are fine. Especially since they show an exchange of ideas that, when healthy, can possibly help people to come to a mutual understanding.

cannonsky

We all should have learned it by kindergarten: two wrongs don't make a right. It works for big stuff too.

You are so right. We should just have murderers sit in the corner!!!

isn't that what prison is?

Exactly! Repeating a punishment that didn't work when they were 5, but at a HUGE expense to the taxpayers.

I'd rather them be in jail than the people in there for drug offenses. Let's just think about how much money the "war on drugs" costs and how the jails are overcrowded because of it and then talk about cost cutting in the prison system

Yes as a different subject, the war on drugs is beyond stupid. We should legalize drugs and realistically the crime associated with it, along with the cost disappears almost overnight.

I still think that those that are willing to go out and commit horrible acts against innocent people should be punished harshly, up to and including death.

think of all the money that would flow into the economy is drugs were legalized and regulated like alcohol and tobacco. I think I just solved the economic crisis :laugh:

It's TRUE! I am willing to bet that most people, given the choice would prefer to go buy a joint from the local store than deal with a pot dealer. Leagalize it and regulate it like alcohol. It's so stupid to claim that one person's vice (alcohol, tobacco) is better than another, especially when the crime is all involved with the posession of said drug.

Meth however is a different story, THAT is some scary ****.

I'm confused...I am now agreeing with you.

we disagreed?