Bye Bye Death Penalty
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Part of the issue with serial killers is that their mind does not understand the concept of right and wrong. There is something that just doesn't click or they are exceptional at justification.0
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I'm against the death penalty for a few reasons.
1. For some reason we can't seem to figure out a way to do it humanely. There's lots of controversy over just how painful our methods are currently.
2. Our justice isn't foolproof. We make mistakes. If we value a victim's life so much that we want to put a murderer to death, how we can claim that we're ok with our convictions only being 99% accurate. That figure is made up, but anything under 100% is sufficient to keep me from approving of a death penalty.
There may be other reasons, but these require less thought and are enough for me to vote down a death penalty.0 -
Part of the issue with serial killers is that their mind does not understand the concept of right and wrong. There is something that just doesn't click or they are exceptional at justification.
I think they understand the concept, but something is driving them to do it anyways. Its like their urge to kill is similar to a starving person's urge to eat.0 -
I'm against the death penalty for a few reasons.
1. For some reason we can't seem to figure out a way to do it humanely. There's lots of controversy over just how painful our methods are currently.
2. Our justice isn't foolproof. We make mistakes. If we value a victim's life so much that we want to put a murderer to death, how we can claim that we're ok with our convictions only being 99% accurate. That figure is made up, but anything under 100% is sufficient to keep me from approving of a death penalty.
There may be other reasons, but these require less thought and are enough for me to vote down a death penalty.
Mistakes is an under-statement. We have prosecutors who are so adamant that someone is guilty because of little more than a gut feeling that they are willing to lie and deceive to make sure they get a conviction.0 -
Part of the issue with serial killers is that their mind does not understand the concept of right and wrong. There is something that just doesn't click or they are exceptional at justification.
I think they understand the concept, but something is driving them to do it anyways. Its like their urge to kill is similar to a starving person's urge to eat.
If I had a dog that had a compulsion to attack the neighborhood kids, it would be put down. I know I'll get blasted for that analogy, but I think the concept is the same. If the compulsion cannot be controlled, cannot be rehabilitated and they only face a life behind bars or in a mental institution, what is even the point?0 -
How does one become evil? Its either they were born evil (not their fault), they become evil because of a hard life (not their fault), they become evil because of mental illness (not their fault), or the only option left is that they spontaneously decide out of nowhere that they want to be evil. This seems ludicrous to me and why I don't believe in evil. Since I don't believe in evil, I don't believe anyone deserves to die. What I do believe is people who commit violent acts do need to be dealt with, but it needs to be done in a just and humane way.
So basically nothing is anyone's fault by that reasoning? That type of reasoning is so illogical to me that it makes my head hurt. It's the place the blame game that so many people love these days:
It's not Johnny's fault he didn't pass Math, perhaps his teacher didn't do enough
It's not Johnny's fault that he beat up that other kid in class, he has a bad home life
It's not Johnny's fault that the girl said no, he wasn't taught any better
It's not Johnny's fault he ran over that toddler while drunk, his mom was an alcoholic
It's not Johnny's fault he killed that man, he was abused as a child
It's not Johnny's fault, he ate WAY too many twinkies....
When will people accept consequences for their actions. I'm pretty sure that nobody that is on death row right now is under any illusions that what they did wasn't wrong, they know it was and did it anyway.
To some extent it is not their fault. However they still need consequences because the consequences themselves can improve the person's behavior. Plus most people can be influenced not to commit crimes just by knowing about the consequences.
Its just the extreme cases that I think people throw all logic out the window. I can't fathom the possibility that an evil person exists where its totally their fault. That doesn't mean their shouldn't be consequences to their actions, but I think hatred and revenge are the least productive ways to deal with them.
Who said hatred and revenge, it's simply culling the herd, they need to be eliminated. It's clinical, they don't and can't fit in society.0 -
How does one become evil? Its either they were born evil (not their fault), they become evil because of a hard life (not their fault), they become evil because of mental illness (not their fault), or the only option left is that they spontaneously decide out of nowhere that they want to be evil. This seems ludicrous to me and why I don't believe in evil. Since I don't believe in evil, I don't believe anyone deserves to die. What I do believe is people who commit violent acts do need to be dealt with, but it needs to be done in a just and humane way.
So basically nothing is anyone's fault by that reasoning? That type of reasoning is so illogical to me that it makes my head hurt. It's the place the blame game that so many people love these days:
It's not Johnny's fault he didn't pass Math, perhaps his teacher didn't do enough
It's not Johnny's fault that he beat up that other kid in class, he has a bad home life
It's not Johnny's fault that the girl said no, he wasn't taught any better
It's not Johnny's fault he ran over that toddler while drunk, his mom was an alcoholic
It's not Johnny's fault he killed that man, he was abused as a child
It's not Johnny's fault, he ate WAY too many twinkies....
When will people accept consequences for their actions. I'm pretty sure that nobody that is on death row right now is under any illusions that what they did wasn't wrong, they know it was and did it anyway.
To some extent it is not their fault. However they still need consequences because the consequences themselves can improve the person's behavior. Plus most people can be influenced not to commit crimes just by knowing about the consequences.
Its just the extreme cases that I think people throw all logic out the window. I can't fathom the possibility that an evil person exists where its totally their fault. That doesn't mean their shouldn't be consequences to their actions, but I think hatred and revenge are the least productive ways to deal with them.
Who said hatred and revenge, it's simply culling the herd, they need to be eliminated. It's clinical, they don't and can't fit in society.
Hatred and revenge is the theme of many posters here on this thread. Anyways like I said, I disagree that they need to be eliminated simply because they are humans and the fact that they committed the crime is enough tragedy. Adding more tragedy isn't going to make anyone feel better.0 -
Part of the issue with serial killers is that their mind does not understand the concept of right and wrong. There is something that just doesn't click or they are exceptional at justification.
I think they understand the concept, but something is driving them to do it anyways. Its like their urge to kill is similar to a starving person's urge to eat.
If I had a dog that had a compulsion to attack the neighborhood kids, it would be put down. I know I'll get blasted for that analogy, but I think the concept is the same. If the compulsion cannot be controlled, cannot be rehabilitated and they only face a life behind bars or in a mental institution, what is even the point?
I guess because we value human life more than a dog's life. That's a good point though.0 -
Can't we please give this thread the "Needle"???0
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How does one become evil? Its either they were born evil (not their fault), they become evil because of a hard life (not their fault), they become evil because of mental illness (not their fault), or the only option left is that they spontaneously decide out of nowhere that they want to be evil. This seems ludicrous to me and why I don't believe in evil. Since I don't believe in evil, I don't believe anyone deserves to die. What I do believe is people who commit violent acts do need to be dealt with, but it needs to be done in a just and humane way.
So basically nothing is anyone's fault by that reasoning? That type of reasoning is so illogical to me that it makes my head hurt. It's the place the blame game that so many people love these days:
It's not Johnny's fault he didn't pass Math, perhaps his teacher didn't do enough
It's not Johnny's fault that he beat up that other kid in class, he has a bad home life
It's not Johnny's fault that the girl said no, he wasn't taught any better
It's not Johnny's fault he ran over that toddler while drunk, his mom was an alcoholic
It's not Johnny's fault he killed that man, he was abused as a child
It's not Johnny's fault, he ate WAY too many twinkies....
When will people accept consequences for their actions. I'm pretty sure that nobody that is on death row right now is under any illusions that what they did wasn't wrong, they know it was and did it anyway.
To some extent it is not their fault. However they still need consequences because the consequences themselves can improve the person's behavior. Plus most people can be influenced not to commit crimes just by knowing about the consequences.
Its just the extreme cases that I think people throw all logic out the window. I can't fathom the possibility that an evil person exists where its totally their fault. That doesn't mean their shouldn't be consequences to their actions, but I think hatred and revenge are the least productive ways to deal with them.
Who said hatred and revenge, it's simply culling the herd, they need to be eliminated. It's clinical, they don't and can't fit in society.
Hatred and revenge is the theme of many posters here on this thread. Anyways like I said, I disagree that they need to be eliminated simply because they are humans and the fact that they committed the crime is enough tragedy. Adding more tragedy isn't going to make anyone feel better.
It's a tragedy that they commited a crime of that magnitude only to the victim, the victim's family and likely their own family. To say it's a tragedy on their behalf that they did something so wrong, which they probably enjoyed quite a bit, and likely would do again seems a little naïve to me.0 -
Again, considering the high cost of living in the world today, where is the money coming from to do all that??
Oh, yea, that's right, we'll do what Europe does and TAX everyone at literally 40% of their gross income. T
hat;'ll fix everything.
Blame 'society'. Blame the victim. That means you blame ME, and I apologize, I'm not taking the blame for someone's mental illness which may or may NOT be attributable to SOCIETY..
Neither are most of the people in this country. AS far as I'm concerned, the system we have is as good as it's going to get. The only thing I would alter is to NOT allow deathrow inmates 30+ years to appeal. THAT would be abolished.
I consider these men and women to be collateral damage. That is the way EVERY country operates. You only don't hear about it in your country because they're better at HIDING it from their public.
So you're against the death penalty. Can you tell me your stance on abortion?
Watch carefully what you say. You could be on the verge of being a hypocrite.....
I'm not going to engage in an extended reactionary and inflammatory debate with you. However, abortion and the death penalty are two issues that are entirely separate from each other.
Yes you are, or you wouldn't be replying to me. Death is Death is Death.
I am FOR abortion for women, I am ALSO FOR the death penalty. At least I can be consistent in my beliefs .
Nice try though, It's been fun. And you indeed revealed hypocrisy, whether or not you will admit it.
One reply (now two) does not an extended debate make. Also debates are best served through a reasoned exchange of opinion, which you seem incapable of doing.
Being pro-choice and opposing the death penalty are not mutually exclusive. They are two entirely separate issues that have zero overlap, unless of course you're uninformed and looking to advance a muddled agenda.
Nice try, yourself.0 -
I guess because we value human life more than a dog's life. That's a good point though.
Sad part is that many people don't deserve the respect that I'd give to the dog, and the fact that the dog is much more likely to be able to be rehabilitated by the right people. These killers and rapists are less than likely to be able to be brought into such a state that they could live anywhere but a prison.0 -
I am completely against the death penalty.
Killing somebody because they killed somebody
Pretty contradicting if you ask me.
What really irritates me is the people who are AGAINST abortion because they fell its not a womens right to kill thier unborn child but they are all for the dealth penalty. Ive heard that one far too many times.
I probably aint gonna word this right but there are a lot of ppl out there that commit crimes because they are mentally unstable and the justice system just throws them into jail instead of getting them the real help that they actually need.
I know jail cannot change somebody but maybe getting help could!? Yet, instead of getting them help people just wanna kill them.
I dont feel we as humans have the right to decide who can or cannot live. Murders or the justice system.0 -
Part of the issue with serial killers is that their mind does not understand the concept of right and wrong. There is something that just doesn't click or they are exceptional at justification.
I think they understand the concept, but something is driving them to do it anyways. Its like their urge to kill is similar to a starving person's urge to eat.
If I had a dog that had a compulsion to attack the neighborhood kids, it would be put down. I know I'll get blasted for that analogy, but I think the concept is the same. If the compulsion cannot be controlled, cannot be rehabilitated and they only face a life behind bars or in a mental institution, what is even the point?
I guess because we value human life more than a dog's life. That's a good point though.
At the same time, I highly doubt anyone would say "This happened because the dog is EVIL.". Everyone would be informed enough to understand that almost certainly the actions of the dog were not it's own fault, but the fault of the circumstances it was brought up in/treated.0 -
How does one become evil? Its either they were born evil (not their fault), they become evil because of a hard life (not their fault), they become evil because of mental illness (not their fault), or the only option left is that they spontaneously decide out of nowhere that they want to be evil. This seems ludicrous to me and why I don't believe in evil. Since I don't believe in evil, I don't believe anyone deserves to die. What I do believe is people who commit violent acts do need to be dealt with, but it needs to be done in a just and humane way.
So basically nothing is anyone's fault by that reasoning? That type of reasoning is so illogical to me that it makes my head hurt. It's the place the blame game that so many people love these days:
It's not Johnny's fault he didn't pass Math, perhaps his teacher didn't do enough
It's not Johnny's fault that he beat up that other kid in class, he has a bad home life
It's not Johnny's fault that the girl said no, he wasn't taught any better
It's not Johnny's fault he ran over that toddler while drunk, his mom was an alcoholic
It's not Johnny's fault he killed that man, he was abused as a child
It's not Johnny's fault, he ate WAY too many twinkies....
When will people accept consequences for their actions. I'm pretty sure that nobody that is on death row right now is under any illusions that what they did wasn't wrong, they know it was and did it anyway.
To some extent it is not their fault. However they still need consequences because the consequences themselves can improve the person's behavior. Plus most people can be influenced not to commit crimes just by knowing about the consequences.
Its just the extreme cases that I think people throw all logic out the window. I can't fathom the possibility that an evil person exists where its totally their fault. That doesn't mean their shouldn't be consequences to their actions, but I think hatred and revenge are the least productive ways to deal with them.
Who said hatred and revenge, it's simply culling the herd, they need to be eliminated. It's clinical, they don't and can't fit in society.
Hatred and revenge is the theme of many posters here on this thread. Anyways like I said, I disagree that they need to be eliminated simply because they are humans and the fact that they committed the crime is enough tragedy. Adding more tragedy isn't going to make anyone feel better.
It's a tragedy that they commited a crime of that magnitude only to the victim, the victim's family and likely their own family. To say it's a tragedy on their behalf that they did something so wrong, which they probably enjoyed quite a bit, and likely would do again seems a little naïve to me.
Well I think the psychology to explain such behaviors is not well enough understood for any of us to make that determination. So rather than jump to the conclusion that they are evil and should be killed, I'm saying to simply spare their life. I don't think that's naive.0 -
i agree some what i seen a documentury on hitler you can say pure evil but he faught in ww1 and after being wounded and mistreated by the french. he went through a lot and he new what he was doing. he was a genius but he was beyound human with no respect for other people. now i would pose you a question do you think he should be alive and living out his days in prison. or even bin ladin or the child killers should get a free pass to live out the rest of there life in prison while there victims are gone for ever0
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Being pro-choice and opposing the death penalty are not mutually exclusive. They are two entirely separate issues that have zero overlap, unless of course you're uninformed and looking to advance a muddled agenda.
Nice try, yourself.
So wait a second, just so I understand, killing a fetus, which will become an innocent baby human being is ok, but killing someone that is already born, and has done horrible things to other people is NOT ok? I don't have an issue with emergency contraception, or abortion in the cases of rape (mostly because of the trauma inflicted on the mother, and the loathing that would likely be placed on the child), but I'm still baffled how sparing the life of a criminal low life is better than sparing the life of a child?0 -
At the same time, I highly doubt anyone would say "This happened because the dog is EVIL.". Everyone would be informed enough to understand that almost certainly the actions of the dog were not it's own fault, but the fault of the circumstances it was brought up in/treated.
Certainly they wouldn't place all the blame on the dog, however the dog doesn't have the same brain power of a human, nor the ability to reason and truly understand what they are doing, which again makes human crimes all that much worse.
Now if you take a mentally handicapped person that is truly mentally retarded/disabled and they commit a crime and can not actually fathom what they did, they should be placed in care such that they cannot harm others or themselves. There is a big difference between being mentally disabled and being mentally deranged.0 -
I'm against the death penalty for a few reasons.
1. For some reason we can't seem to figure out a way to do it humanely. There's lots of controversy over just how painful our methods are currently.
2. Our justice isn't foolproof. We make mistakes. If we value a victim's life so much that we want to put a murderer to death, how we can claim that we're ok with our convictions only being 99% accurate. That figure is made up, but anything under 100% is sufficient to keep me from approving of a death penalty.
There may be other reasons, but these require less thought and are enough for me to vote down a death penalty.
Mistakes is an under-statement. We have prosecutors who are so adamant that someone is guilty because of little more than a gut feeling that they are willing to lie and deceive to make sure they get a conviction.
Where I live, in DuPage County, Illinois, not only did the prosecutor lie and deceive to produce a conviction, he continued to assert that the defendant was guilty after he was cleared by DNA evidence--because he "seemed" suspicious.
Best part---the prosecutor was later a republican (of course) nominee for governor.0
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