Forgive my student loan!
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If half of Americans aren't earning enough to live on, then I would say it's extremely fair. If you took money from them in your proposed 'flat tax', they might starve to death or lose their homes. If you've got enough money to at least HELP prevent that happening, why wouldn't you?
But how is it fair that almost half of Americans pay NO taxes? How is it fair that the richest 10% pay for 71% of all taxes? The only fair tax is a flat one that everyone pays.Hello, I'm right-wing and I hate my fellow human beings so much that I want to keep ALL my money to myself instead of helping them out.
Tax-funded things don't take ALL your "hard-earned" cash. They take a proportion of it dependent on how much you earn.
Also, please remember that the US remains the most generous nation (privately, not the gov't) in the world, thanks to its wealth.0 -
I don't have the quote but have to respond to someone who stated 'try to buy a house from scratch without help from parents". I'm not sure what world that person is living in since I don't know anyone who bought a house with help from their parents.
Yup Yup Yup!0 -
I normally don't give guys flowers, but since there's no blow job smiley, here....:flowerforyou:
There's a suggestions forum somewhere on here. Please.
I shall find it and put in my request, until it's approved ::bjforyou::
and here i thought i was special
You ARE! You were my first....on this thread....that IS special! ::doublebjforyou::
Day has been officially made0 -
Hello, I'm right-wing and I hate my fellow human beings so much that I want to keep ALL my money to myself instead of helping them out.
Tax-funded things don't take ALL your "hard-earned" cash. They take a proportion of it dependent on how much you earn.
I already work 30% of my day for the government. I would rather cap it right there thanks.0 -
Yeah, their economy is looking super! Let's follow the European model!...large parts of Europe have a better quality of life than the US.0 -
I worked and saved for my son's education. I made sure his education came before my retirement! I told him, he better get a good job, because he is my retirement. lol0
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Hello, I'm right-wing and I hate my fellow human beings so much that I want to keep ALL my money to myself instead of helping them out.
Tax-funded things don't take ALL your "hard-earned" cash. They take a proportion of it dependent on how much you earn.
I already work 30% of my day for the government. I would rather cap it right there thanks.
That's fine. I was talking to people who think you should pay nothing.0 -
Topic is very interesting considering I have a son going in to college this year... I was surprised to find out that all students attending the 2 colleges we visited are granted a student loan, whether they need it or not - all they need to do is sign the promissory note and they get their check... <---- this should not be the case.0
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Yeah, their economy is looking super! Let's follow the European model!...large parts of Europe have a better quality of life than the US.
:smooched:0 -
I am 24 with a college degree I didn't take a out a single loan for college. I have always worked and paid my way through. I was a waitress nothing special but I WORKED. I bought a car had a 4 year loan and I paid it off in just over a year. I bought a car I knew I could pay for and it is still a nice car.0
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Sorry I can't afford to pay for other's education....I am too busy paying for my own.0
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Why burden yourself with it in the first place. Both my sons are making a good living in the trade industry, trained by the companies they work for. They make the same amount or more than other family members that have gone to college. I can say for sure not one of those family members with a degree has found a job in their field. 30 years ago a degree got your foot in the door, but it's just not the same now. College is just a money making business, they make you take endless classes for things you don't need for your field and charge blood for the books that sometimes are never even used.0
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Yeah, their economy is looking super! Let's follow the European model!...large parts of Europe have a better quality of life than the US.
What's your economy looking like, then? (http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/u-economy-could-stay-pretty-miserable-another-5-141250584.html)
What's Sweden's economy looking like, then? (http://www.economist.com/node/18805503)0 -
The American experiment, when this nation was created, was based on the question, "Can man rule himself?”
Let's prove that we indeed can, and not become slaves to a socialist state. That is the crux of this discussion.
But we are currently well on our way to being slaves of a capitalist state. Keeping the cost of living and advancement above the means of the average citizen creates an class system where movement is possible but rarely attainable.
Who is keeping the cost of living unattainable for us? Are you personally being held down by some rich guy in NY? Did these rich guys make you not study hard enough, work hard enough, live within your means, or make other bad decisions? Has there been some law passed that I'm unaware of that won't allow you to pursue what you want to do?
It was capitalism that made America what it is today. Sure we're in a rough spot, but we will and can come out of it if we elect that right people.
True slavery is having the gov take your money and give it away.
Slavery is giving the ability to make choices about your destiny over to some "benevolent" gov agency.
Slavery is having the gov take most of what you earn.
The gov will never be able to make the world a fair place-never. So why are you so eager to give what liberties we have left over to some clown in office?
As screwed up as we are, we still have the ability to lead a successful life and become wealthy in this country.
I studied well and I have a lucrative job. I was fortunate enough to have the means to go to a good school but I also live in a very expensive area where I need to live to make the money that I make. My wife was a FDNY EMT not making a lot of money. If she chose to move out of the city, she would be paid even less. So Real Estate costs in NYC are astronomical, yet if she chose to move elsewhere, she would have even less take home pay. Add to that the cost of food and such in NYC and there is very little chance at movement.
I am not against the United States at all but this irrational fear of any government regulation is amazing to me considering the regulations that were removed from the Mortgage and Banking industry are what got us here today.0 -
I didn't have to borrow a cent. My parent's and I paid the whole bill. If there's loan forgiveness, then I need at least 25 cents on every dollar in tuition and room and board I paid.
I wouldn't brag about having your parents pay for your college. That's where ENTITLEMENT comes from. Some people actually pay back their parents when they help with college, unless they are rich and wouldn't miss it anyway. Ive seen parents pay for college, then the kids forget they are alive. They live on Social Security and Medicare after selflessly giving their children all they worked for.
I don't necessarily see that as "bragging." I know people who, between themselves and their parents, work their butts off to pay for college themselves--that doesn't make them rich or entitled. My parents said, "If you work your hardest through school and get as many scholarships as possible, we will pay the rest for college." So I worked HARD to get straight A's so that I could get good scholarships. Does that make me entitled or rich? No, it makes me a hard worker and fortunate.
It's called "Pay it Forward". We paid for both of our sons' educations. No debt. The payback. They must do the same for their children and make the absolute most of the opportunity they were give.
Back to the original topic. Student loans should not be "forgiven" by any stretch. Not even partially. You borrow it, you owe it. You were never guaranteed a living. The majority of the risk of taking those is yours (apart from the shared risk of the "guarantee"). But IMO, that doesn't mean the society doesn't have a legitimate role in getting its members educated (not "trained"). That notion is NOT socialism.
^ this0 -
I agree absolutely! So many people don't think seriously about how much help they've had from their parents or the better circumstances of the U.S. in the past. For young people starting out today without the help of their parents, it is exactly as you described and the "math" doesn't work out well. There seems to be some kind of assumption that parents can/will/should pay for their child's college education, car, insurance, etc. There are so many problems with this, that it would take much longer to discuss than I'll spend to write this! But, the bottom line is that self-responsibility (not relying on your parents into your mid-30's) used to be an American ideal, today, not so much and things are quite tilted against the average young person being able to make it independently.
I am always surprised at how staunchly the average U.S. citizen clings to outdated notions of what is possible, what is ideal, and what the future will bring if things continue as they are. But, then again, we rank about 25th out of 30 developed nations in every recent study of educational systems, so I suppose that has a lot to do with the inability to think critically about complex topics.0 -
What percentage of the country's wealth does the richest 10% own? I don't know, I'm asking. But without that knowledge, the complaint of tax burden is empty.
But how is it fair that almost half of Americans pay NO taxes? How is it fair that the richest 10% pay for 71% of all taxes? The only fair tax is a flat one that everyone pays.Hello, I'm right-wing and I hate my fellow human beings so much that I want to keep ALL my money to myself instead of helping them out.
Tax-funded things don't take ALL your "hard-earned" cash. They take a proportion of it dependent on how much you earn.
Also, please remember that the US remains the most generous nation (privately, not the gov't) in the world, thanks to its wealth.0 -
Maybe it's just me, but it seems the answers to your questions are obvious...
1. Don't take on $50K in loans for a $40K job. Don't borrow if you don't know how you'll pay back your debt.
2. Share the the apartment rent and utilities with 1, or more, other people to keep your expenses down. Or, live somewhere less expensive.
3. Buy a used car for $5000. Share a car. Use public transportation.
4. Plan to rent until you can comfortably afford to save for a down payment.
5. Set more reasonable goals. If you don't have a job that supports the purchase of a house, you shouldn't buy one.
Young people should be taught to be responsible for their (financial) decisions.
I hold BS and MS degrees. I'm not unfamiliar with huge student loan debt. I worked very hard to pay off every last cent and I hugely appreciate the fact that financing help was available when I needed it. It never occurred to me once to ask anyone else to assume my debt.
Failed student loan debt puts the whole system at risk of default. Default would be a catastrophe for future students in need of financial support.
I expected a response like this from you. So just as I stated, you are perfectly fine with the burden of your hardship going on to anyone other than your daughter.
I was raised to never buy something you can't afford.
Its impossible to not buy things you can't afford when you live in an environment where nothing is affordable! Nobody can afford colleges these days. Nobody can afford to buy a house these days. I am guessing you are middle-aged, I don't think many of these types have the slightest clue what the young workforce has to deal with these days. High student loan debts, high mortgages, lack of jobs, etc.
Not sure what the definition of middle-aged is, but I am 42. I am well aware of the issues the young workforce are dealing with. Not going to debate the high student loan debt again. I worked my way through college. High mortgages because they bought more than they could afford. Possibly bought using an ARM.
Will definitely give yout he lack of jobs, but that isn't just a young workforce issue. Many "middle-aged" workers have that same problem.
So how does a young person who is lucky to make $40K/year out of college (if they are lucky enough to find a job) supposed to pay down on their $50K student loan debt, pay their $1200/month apartment rent, while making payments on their $20K honda civic, while saving up for their $40K down payment, so they can buy their $200K townhouse before they turn 30, because heaven forbids one day they might want to actually start a family. See its almost impossible to start from scratch these days. Most of the young people cannot get out of debt without their parents' help.0 -
I joined the Army to pay for my college education. Pay for it yourself or go without. Where did this overwhelming sense of entitlement come from?
Amen.
I think you know the answer to this question. November 6 can't come soon enough.0 -
Yeah, their economy is looking super! Let's follow the European model!...large parts of Europe have a better quality of life than the US.
Actually, the Scandinavian region is doing quite well and they have the higher quality of life ratings.0 -
If half of Americans aren't earning enough to live on, then I would say it's extremely fair. If you took money from them in your proposed 'flat tax', they might starve to death or lose their homes. If you've got enough money to at least HELP prevent that happening, why wouldn't you?
But how is it fair that almost half of Americans pay NO taxes? How is it fair that the richest 10% pay for 71% of all taxes? The only fair tax is a flat one that everyone pays.Hello, I'm right-wing and I hate my fellow human beings so much that I want to keep ALL my money to myself instead of helping them out.
Tax-funded things don't take ALL your "hard-earned" cash. They take a proportion of it dependent on how much you earn.
Also, please remember that the US remains the most generous nation (privately, not the gov't) in the world, thanks to its wealth.
Just to point out, there's nothing stopping folks that want to donate extra money to the federal government. I believe Bll O'Reilly and other commentators have pointed that out to Mr. Buffett and other "ultra" rich folks on numerous occasions.
I believe in flat sales tax and I'm not one of the "ultra" rich. I do believe we should all pay our fair share.
It would also help if the feds would manage the money in a responsible way.
In regards to the original topic "Forgiving Student Loans" - not everyone needs a bailout. Unfortunately many folks did not learn how to manage their money. You can't expect the feds to bail you out every time you *kitten* up.
It's like people who expect their parents to bail them out everytime they create a financial disaster w/ their own budget. Ya gotta let people fail, it's how you LEARN from mistakes that make you a better/wiser person.0 -
Who is saying that they should p[ay nothing? Everyone should pay their fair share -- equal proportions -- when it comes to taxes.Hello, I'm right-wing and I hate my fellow human beings so much that I want to keep ALL my money to myself instead of helping them out.
Tax-funded things don't take ALL your "hard-earned" cash. They take a proportion of it dependent on how much you earn.
I already work 30% of my day for the government. I would rather cap it right there thanks.
That's fine. I was talking to people who think you should pay nothing.
Would it be fair if everyone in your school class that earned an "A" got a "C" because it's not fair to those that earned an "F"?0 -
I agree... the feeling of entitlement... of someone who appears to have little realization of the different circumstances facing young people today vs. the situation FIFTEEN YEARS ago.
We are in the midst of unemployment and a global economic meltdown predicted to get much worse and then stabilized eventually at a point not much better. Not only that, but too many people have college degrees, which makes them a "bottom line" rather than anything that will get you a well-paying job like it did in the past. The B.S. degree is the new High School diploma and that is the state of reality for young people graduating today along with very high unemployment rates. You mention several key financial realities that helped you when you were that age that are completely different today. I'm glad you were born at a good time and that the formula worked for you. I'm from the same generation... but, it's not the same world for the college students I teach today and it's very unrealistic to pretend that it is and that they can do the same things we did and get the same results.The feeling of entitlement! Wow.
I went to a public University in WI costing roughly $10,000/year (without housing, etc). My parents paid precisely zero. I did not qualify for assistance other than Unsubsidized Stafford Loans.
I took those loans, I worked full-time throughout the school year and summers. I worked year round, I went to school year round. I also worked in High School to save - concept.
Upon graduation at the age of 21, I got a job paying in the $20K range, started paying back my student loans and living "small." Within two years I tripled my income through hard work and dedication.
I bought my first house at the age of 23.
I am now 35, continue my career path, a single mom, have zero debt, zero credit cards, and a 10 year old car, and a crappy lil' house to live in.
My point?? I don't owe you *kitten* if you can't pay your own student loans.0 -
If you are not willing to work to pay back the debt that you rack up while in school, then do not take one out. There are many other options, like scholarships and grants that you get. 90% of mine was scholarships that I worked my butt off for. 5% I worked for, and the other 5% I used loans. But guess what, I plan on paying it back! A college education is by no means a right, it is a privilege. I have worked full time during my time as a student, all four years of it. And sure, sometimes there just isn't enough to cover the large amount of money due at once, which is why you pay it back over time. Why should a student benefit from education in the long run without being willing to pay back what they owe?0
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Hello, I'm right-wing and I hate my fellow human beings so much that I want to keep ALL my money to myself instead of helping them out.
Tax-funded things don't take ALL your "hard-earned" cash. They take a proportion of it dependent on how much you earn.
I already work 30% of my day for the government. I would rather cap it right there thanks.
That's fine. I was talking to people who think you should pay nothing.
Well.. I think I should pay nothing for YOUR education
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I agree! It is a huge disservice to young people that they are given the impression that learning a trade will not enable them to live a decent life and make a good living. What has happened as a result of flooding the colleges with unprepared, unmotivated young people who are only there because they think they have to be in order to make a living... is that higher education in the USA has been downgraded to the level of a high school diploma and the whole world knows it. Now, WHERE you go to college matters more than ever before... because going to a state school is like going to a glorified high school. The minimum investment is now $40,000-$50,000 for young people just to get an undergraduate degree that will not get them a job in their field, as you mentioned. This is the reality.Why burden yourself with it in the first place. Both my sons are making a good living in the trade industry, trained by the companies they work for. They make the same amount or more than other family members that have gone to college. I can say for sure not one of those family members with a degree has found a job in their field. 30 years ago a degree got your foot in the door, but it's just not the same now. College is just a money making business, they make you take endless classes for things you don't need for your field and charge blood for the books that sometimes are never even used.0
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I think that this whole topic is just very frustrating.
I graduated from a private university in 2010 with a bachelor's in psychology. Oh, and about $60k in loans that my parents signed for and now I have to pay back.
I couldn't find a worthwhile job (other than retail and nannying) after graduation and thus I decided to get my master's. At least to defer loans long enough for me to find a more substantial job.
I will graduate in December of this year with a master's in psychology. With about $30k in loans. The loans I do have do not cover all of tuition or even books.
I hope to teach at a community college or online. Surprisingly, there are a lot of these jobs available and the pay is pretty good (compared to the $10/hr I am making working as a full time nanny).
Right now I am paying on a parent PLUS loan that my father took out for me my freshman and sophomore years at undergrad. He never asked me how much money I needed for those years, and took out more than I needed. Thanks to dear old Dad and Sallie Mae, the total of my $30K plus loan will be about $60K after ten years. I'm paying on it monthly now.....but when I have to start paying the loans in MY name come May of next year, I may be SOL. While many student loans give you the option of income based repayment, the loan in my Dad's name is completely fixed. Thank god I work full time and can afford things. For now.
What I think people don't realize is that our parents and teachers have been feeding us the idea that going to college is the magical step to a well paying job. You'll have all of your dreams come true if you go to college! Unfortunately, that's not true. I know more unemployed graduates than I do people who actually have anything other than a McJob. College is NOT necessary; it's a waste of time and money.
I hope my children enjoy paying off my student loans after I die.0 -
http://www.immi.se/migration/control.htm
Yeah, their economy is looking super! Let's follow the European model!...large parts of Europe have a better quality of life than the US.
Actually, the Scandinavian region is doing quite well and they have the higher quality of life ratings.
Have fun!0 -
Scholarships for merit are disappearing and are more based on "need" and "minority" status. So, the idea that a young person will work hard in high school and get a merit scholarship is not quite reality. Grants are available if you are very low income but an average family will not qualify for Pell grants. You may think a college degree is not a right... but, since it's the new high school diploma... guess what, it soon will be just as a high school education is considered necessary to succeed in our society. If the college degree was still "optional" as in the past, I would agree with you. But, now it's not. Even for many minimum wage type jobs, they want someone with a college degree (who they will then proceed to underpay shamelessly because they can).If you are not willing to work to pay back the debt that you rack up while in school, then do not take one out. There are many other options, like scholarships and grants that you get. 90% of mine was scholarships that I worked my butt off for. 5% I worked for, and the other 5% I used loans. But guess what, I plan on paying it back! A college education is by no means a right, it is a privilege. I have worked full time during my time as a student, all four years of it. And sure, sometimes there just isn't enough to cover the large amount of money due at once, which is why you pay it back over time. Why should a student benefit from education in the long run without being willing to pay back what they owe?0
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People on here are paying so little attention to the cultural and structural factors at play in going to college and getting a job. This debate does not belong on the MFP boards where people without an understanding of a complicated social situation are allowed to post without consequence.0
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