Forgive my student loan!

frogger581

I would prefer more education for those recieving the loans. I asked several times over, "what can i expect as a monthly payment after i graduate?" they never gave me an answer. I was never informed about the compounded interest rates, the fact that they would not request payments that were reasonable to my income, or the fact that they just plain lie and tell you while your in school "sure you can consolidate your loans with us for one easy payment!" then after you leave they they say "oh im sorry because of the loans you took out, your credit is bad so you cant consolidate your loans please pay us half your gross monthly income." I have been chased clear across the country trying to find a job that will cover what i owe. still havent found one. now due to the interest i owe 3 times what i borrowed. That is predatory lending. they shuck and jive while you dig yourself a hole and blame you for believing what they told you to sell it.

No i dont want loan forgiveness, i want loans with REASON.

hendrijm

I have massive student loans that I will be paying for a long time, this is with the meager scholarships I was able to get. I do not plan on moving out of my parent's house because I cannot afford to pay rent/mortgage and student loans. I will afford gas and food and not much else. I am still in school working two jobs and I still won't be able to pay the tuition for the local state university. I can take only one class at a time because I can't pass more than one class and work two jobs. I started at the local community college, I worked through all my schooling, but couldn't make enough to cover tuition and do well in full time classes. Besides, without the STEM student status I would be working somewhere that would pay half as much. At the community college I was advised to transfer to a private college in the area if my goal is a PhD. I did that. The graduates from that school went to the top 10 programs in the country in that field. I was not informed, however, that to get tenure at a university is as likely to happen as being a pro athlete. I was also not told that this was even less likely because I am a woman. After I learned these hard truths I tried to pursue other paths, which all make about 40-50k with no further education. I don't want a big fancy house, my dream house just sold for 86k, and I am satisfied with my 96 Saturn. Had I known differently I would have chosen differently and could have saved tens of thousands of dollars doing it. It was not recommended I go to the state university because the program was laughably bad. The community college doesn't respect the MS degrees from there, now that I am there and have seen better programs, I know why. However, I can get a better job with their degree than without one.

I don't think colleges inform students to their likeliness to get jobs/graduate schools. I discovered that it is very difficult to get a job if your degree is in biochemistry, what my sister is doing. I can't convince her this is the case and that she needs to do more to get into one of the competitive graduate programs she would like to get into. The school doesn't tell her things I learned the hard way and she doesn't believe me. My degrees are in physics, so I can do a lot of things, but they aren't the pay that I was expecting. She won't have those oppurtunities.

GasMasterFlash

People on here are paying so little attention to the cultural and structural factors at play in going to college and getting a job. This debate does not belong on the MFP boards where people without an understanding of a complicated social situation are allowed to post without consequence.

Yes, we simpletons just can't grasp it can we? We should just shut up, right? Let's leave this complicated stuff to the elitists in their ivory towers. Thank you for correcting us, Oh Great and Wise One.

lour441

I think that this whole topic is just very frustrating.

I graduated from a private university in 2010 with a bachelor's in psychology. Oh, and about $60k in loans that my parents signed for and now I have to pay back.

I couldn't find a worthwhile job (other than retail and nannying) after graduation and thus I decided to get my master's. At least to defer loans long enough for me to find a more substantial job.

I will graduate in December of this year with a master's in psychology. With about $30k in loans. The loans I do have do not cover all of tuition or even books.

I hope to teach at a community college or online. Surprisingly, there are a lot of these jobs available and the pay is pretty good (compared to the $10/hr I am making working as a full time nanny).

Right now I am paying on a parent PLUS loan that my father took out for me my freshman and sophomore years at undergrad. He never asked me how much money I needed for those years, and took out more than I needed. Thanks to dear old Dad and Sallie Mae, the total of my $30K plus loan will be about $60K after ten years. I'm paying on it monthly now.....but when I have to start paying the loans in MY name come May of next year, I may be SOL. While many student loans give you the option of income based repayment, the loan in my Dad's name is completely fixed. Thank god I work full time and can afford things. For now.

What I think people don't realize is that our parents and teachers have been feeding us the idea that going to college is the magical step to a well paying job. You'll have all of your dreams come true if you go to college! Unfortunately, that's not true. I know more unemployed graduates than I do people who actually have anything other than a McJob. College is NOT necessary; it's a waste of time and money.

I hope my children enjoy paying off my student loans after I die.

So basically what you are saying is you got a BS in a field of study where there are no jobs. Your solution to that was to get a MS in the same field of study?

Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results??

I have a BS in computer science. I have never been unemployed. If you have an IT degree and you are unemployed you are doing something wrong. If you are unemployed you might want to rethink your choices.

jocelynna

I expected a response like this from you. So just as I stated, you are perfectly fine with the burden of your hardship going on to anyone other than your daughter.

I was raised to never buy something you can't afford.

Its impossible to not buy things you can't afford when you live in an environment where nothing is affordable! Nobody can afford colleges these days. Nobody can afford to buy a house these days. I am guessing you are middle-aged, I don't think many of these types have the slightest clue what the young workforce has to deal with these days. High student loan debts, high mortgages, lack of jobs, etc.

Not sure what the definition of middle-aged is, but I am 42. I am well aware of the issues the young workforce are dealing with. Not going to debate the high student loan debt again. I worked my way through college. High mortgages because they bought more than they could afford. Possibly bought using an ARM.

Will definitely give yout he lack of jobs, but that isn't just a young workforce issue. Many "middle-aged" workers have that same problem.

So how does a young person who is lucky to make $40K/year out of college (if they are lucky enough to find a job) supposed to pay down on their $50K student loan debt, pay their $1200/month apartment rent, while making payments on their $20K honda civic, while saving up for their $40K down payment, so they can buy their $200K townhouse before they turn 30, because heaven forbids one day they might want to actually start a family. See its almost impossible to start from scratch these days. Most of the young people cannot get out of debt without their parents' help.

And, what ever happened to living within your means? I have never owned a vehicle that cost me over $4500. There is nothing written in stone that you need to have $40k to put down on a house. We purchased ours for $230k and only put down $10k, so if it is your goal to put down more than is required, than that is your own personal decision. It shouldn't be everyone else's problem that you chose to go to a high end school.

zackster1989

The American experiment, when this nation was created, was based on the question, "Can man rule himself?”

Let's prove that we indeed can, and not become slaves to a socialist state. That is the crux of this discussion.

But we are currently well on our way to being slaves of a capitalist state. Keeping the cost of living and advancement above the means of the average citizen creates an class system where movement is possible but rarely attainable.

The alternative -- a socialist state -- is much better. Gotta love their great results over the last century. :huh:

I believe the alternative would be somewhere in the middle.

Where has ceding more authority to centralized gov't provided more opportunities and a better quality of life?

This "terrible capitalist society" has secured liberties and opportunities for more human beings during the last couple of centuries than any other time in the history of man. It would not have been possible otherwise.

Anyone who has taken any sort of mix between business, economic, and humanities classes knows that both socialism and capitalism are severely flawed and have no long term sustainability.

Capitalism requires society to be well informed and educated in their economic purchases. There is a misrepresentation, lack of education, and other forms of manipulation that humans apply that makes capitalism create a rift between the haves and haves-not.

Socialism requires society to give up their claim on property. People have a hard time sharing and not making claims on property so socialism usually turns into a dictatorship.

Our current answers to how an economic structure should be maintained are not adequate and fighting over the small, meaningless details of each only deter from obtaining a brighter future.

GasMasterFlash

I want to pose this question again...

Why shouldn't those that earn A's in their studies have those dropped to B's or C's, so that those that earned F's can have their raised to C's or D's?

It would only be fair, right?

empath20

I agree with everything you wrote- this is exactly the real situation for the vast majority of college students.

This is such a touchy subject....
The fact is, things keep getting more expensive while salaries increase at a less steady rate. That is a FACT!
School, cost of living, groceries, gas, cars... etc. Those are all things that cost 200-300% more than they did 15 years ago.
The average salary for a college graduate is the same as it was back in the late 70's.

A lot of us made the mistake to go to college, not worrying about the consequenses, because we are raised to believe that a college education will land us a good job with good pay and we would be able to raise a family and live happily ever after. No one predicted the recession as much as no one ever predicted we would have a black president. We went to college to learn what a rip off college actually is, and now we are stuck with enormous debt and limited opportunities.

I am a high believer in education, but I will never suggest to any high schooler to take on enormous school loans. Therefor, we are going to have a very stupid country. Even dumber than we already are.

k_sharp

I joined the Army to pay for my college education. Pay for it yourself or go without. Where did this overwhelming sense of entitlement come from?

I joined the navy right out of high school so that I would have money for college. I met my husband in the navy and after having two kids I got out. I plan to start school next year knowing I have my GI bill to pay for it. My husband is still active duty and we live fine off of his paycheck. We have two newer vehicles one is paid off and we are currently looking to buy a house. We know we can't afford over 250k so we are not looking above. We have managed to do just fine without our parents help we don't make a lot of money but still manage just fine and have been able to build up good credit.

You just need to budget your money and live within your means! My husband and I have made stupid purchases that we don't need but we (a timeshare) but we just budget to make sure we make our payments on time! I think the military is a great start for a young person, I learned a lot and have money for college!

empath20

Sadly, I doubt many people will fully understand the depth of your statement below. They are happier telling us all how they made it work while ignoring the reality of others and the massive changes in the global economy and job market, including the USA. Nor do they truly care about the long term effects of their narrow vision of "what's mine is mine" and "if it worked for me, it will work for you" (which has rarely ever been true). It will only be when they are old and dependent on a failing society of younger people (who will be less educated, having less money, and more in debt than any generations prior) that I think the full picture will finally make sense to those committed to denying reality at this moment. History is full of this dynamic- ignore reality until there isn't anything you can do about it, even if the negative consequences could be (and were) widely predicted. This is no different. This is also a reason that the U.S. has fallen dramatically below most developed nations on just about any measure. Another reality that people argue ignorantly about when the data are there and the whole world is aware of it.

I guess you and the others are missing the point. If 20-somethings cannot afford to buy houses and start families because they can't avoid massive debt, then our economy is doomed. I'll leave it at that.

hendrijm

I would prefer more education for those recieving the loans. I asked several times over, "what can i expect as a monthly payment after i graduate?" they never gave me an answer. I was never informed about the compounded interest rates, the fact that they would not request payments that were reasonable to my income, or the fact that they just plain lie and tell you while your in school "sure you can consolidate your loans with us for one easy payment!" then after you leave they they say "oh im sorry because of the loans you took out, your credit is bad so you cant consolidate your loans please pay us half your gross monthly income." I have been chased clear across the country trying to find a job that will cover what i owe. still havent found one. now due to the interest i owe 3 times what i borrowed. That is predatory lending. they shuck and jive while you dig yourself a hole and blame you for believing what they told you to sell it.

No i dont want loan forgiveness, i want loans with REASON.

I was also not informed about compounded interest and the interest rates on my student loans are higher than the ones on my credit cards! (Note-I use my credit cards responsibly and don't carry a balance.) They also don't tell you they capitalize the interest, so my 14,000 sallie mae loan is actually going to be 22,000.

empath20

LOL... there you have it. Don't rely on your parents. Just marry someone with money- at least as much as you- and, voila! You have double the earnings and can go online and tell everyone all about how "you" made it!

I'm using myself as an example here -- because I"m not THAT old. I graduated early (because it's cheaper to graduate early) BEFORE state schools waved tution for any classes you take over a full load because...kids these days, why finish? Anyways, my husband and I bought a house (we made exactly the same amount at the time) when I was 24. No help at ALL from family. 200k. I chose a school I could afford, a degree that could get me a decent job, and a husband that works. If you choose a school you can't afford, get a worthless degree, and end up with a deadbeat -- those are your choices (and consequences) to accept. Not mine.

Just like someone else said, every person I know with student loans could have reduced them if they WANTED to.

empath20

Actually, the way it works now is that those who should have an "C" (or "F") get an "A" because they feel it's otherwise unfair and will throw temper tantrums in the office of whatever administrator they believe will make the professor change the grade. Sadly, it often works, which is why it's done so widely. It's called "grade inflation" and there is now no way to tell the difference between who really earned an "A" and who was just passed along with one to avoid conflicts/drama. This is what happens when young people with no actual interest in college feel pressured/obligated to go, believing they can't earn a decent living without a college degree, and flood the universities with unprepared, unmotivated students who all graduate with the same degrees and GPAs as those who actually studied and did well. That's why the college degree is the new high school diploma, except that it costs (on average) $40,000.

Who is saying that they should p[ay nothing? Everyone should pay their fair share -- equal proportions -- when it comes to taxes.

Would it be fair if everyone in your school class that earned an "A" got a "C" because it's not fair to those that earned an "F"?

iHEARTcardiacnurses

Went to university for 5 years. $30k total for the whole shebang. I worked through high school and college saving and saving. I worked on campus in the coffee shop while I went to nursing school.

Now I've graduated and I only owe $3k which will be paid off in a year.

You can crawl through a river of **** and come clean out the other side. It just takes planning and hard work (and a big *kitten* poster).

stacygayle

Become a nurse and work for the government in a low paying job and after 10 years or so they'll forgive your student loans for your government service

stacygayle

:laugh:

This is such a touchy subject....
The fact is, things keep getting more expensive while salaries increase at a less steady rate. That is a FACT!
School, cost of living, groceries, gas, cars... etc. Those are all things that cost 200-300% more than they did 15 years ago.
The average salary for a college graduate is the same as it was back in the late 70's.

A lot of us made the mistake to go to college, not worrying about the consequenses, because we are raised to believe that a college education will land us a good job with good pay and we would be able to raise a family and live happily ever after. No one predicted the recession as much as no one ever predicted we would have a black president. We went to college to learn what a rip off college actually is, and now we are stuck with enormous debt and limited opportunities.

I am a high believer in education, but I will never suggest to any high schooler to take on enormous school loans. Therefor, we are going to have a very stupid country. Even dumber than we already are.

[/quote]

And thus the movie Idiocracy comes true

OfficerFuzzy

I'm going to community college to get my core classes done and save a bit of money, but after this I'm going to be in school for possibly the next eight years.
Just on the loan situation and choosing expensive schools...I'm not going to waste eight years of my life on a second-rate education. I know it sounds spoiled, but that's the way I'm looking at it.
That's not to say loans are the answer, there's work-study, work, intelligent spending, grants and scholarships (which aren't always as easy as they seem, but they're there).

I don't want to go into debt, but if it's that or dropping out I'm going into debt. School is important to me.

future_runner

I haven't read every single post, and I understand how economics work, but I just want to make sure everyone understands what the bill says. It isn't "good job for going to college forget about those silly loans" it's a 10/10 plan. Under the plan, those with student loan debt will pay 10% of their income towards their loan for 10 years. So if someone graduates and starts out making 40K a year they will only pay 4k towards their loans that year. If they go up to making 60K their payments will rise as well. Many people will pay their whole loan back. The problem is that right now repayments are based on percentage of loan amount so unfortunately new graduates are making their biggest (minimum you can always pay more) payments when they are just starting off and most likely making the least they will make.

2April

I haven't read every single post, and I understand how economics work, but I just want to make sure everyone understands what the bill says. It isn't "good job for going to college forget about those silly loans" it's a 10/10 plan. Under the plan, those with student loan debt will pay 10% of their income towards their loan for 10 years. So if someone graduates and starts out making 40K a year they will only pay 4k towards their loans that year. If they go up to making 60K their payments will rise as well. Many people will pay their whole loan back. The problem is that right now repayments are based on percentage of loan amount so unfortunately new graduates are making their biggest (minimum you can always pay more) payments when they are just starting off and most likely making the least they will make.

Good point.

Bahet

So how does a young person who is lucky to make $40K/year out of college (if they are lucky enough to find a job) supposed to pay down on their $50K student loan debt, pay their $1200/month apartment rent, while making payments on their $20K honda civic, while saving up for their $40K down payment, so they can buy their $200K townhouse before they turn 30, because heaven forbids one day they might want to actually start a family. See its almost impossible to start from scratch these days. Most of the young people cannot get out of debt without their parents' help.

First, you get a god damn reality check, a roommate, a less expensive car and apartment, and thank you lucky STARS you have a job that pays so well.

I think I just developed my first MFP crush! BRILLIANT post!!

doorki

...large parts of Europe have a better quality of life than the US.

Yeah, their economy is looking super! Let's follow the European model!

Actually, the Scandinavian region is doing quite well and they have the higher quality of life ratings.

http://www.immi.se/migration/control.htm

Have fun!

Ah, the cop-out "if you don't like it then leave" statement. Too bad this country is built on debate.

GasMasterFlash

http://www.immi.se/migration/control.htm

Have fun!

Ah, the cop-out "if you don't like it then leave" statement. Too bad this country is built on debate.

I was joshin' -- just like the "shut up" crack someone made a few pages back.

danifo0811

I'd agree there needs to be more information about interest rates. We had 6 months grace to start paying but interest started accumulating right away. When I wanted to pay off the entire amount, the bank screwed up 4 times calculating the interest.

Finding salaries or job availabilty is not always easy as the more educated and specialized you are the more the postings don't exist or say to be determined.

I still say parents and guidance counsellors should do a better job explaining this to kids. Kids are naive and have no clue about the consequences of their decisions.

I'm confused about saying things were better 15 years ago. When my husband graduated from engineering, half his class was unemployed. the dot com bubble had burst and Nortel (traditionally hired most of the class ) crashed and burned and let go most of their employees. How is that good?

If you'd asked people then, they would have given the same talk about college being the new high school and the costs of life. It sucks but you still have to pay your own way.

doorki

http://www.immi.se/migration/control.htm

Have fun!

Ah, the cop-out "if you don't like it then leave" statement. Too bad this country is built on debate.

I was joshin' -- just like the "shut up" crack someone made a few pages back.

All good. I thought it was out of character for what I have seen from you but I am always amazed by the number of people who think that is a valid response lol.

rml_16

I'm going to community college to get my core classes done and save a bit of money, but after this I'm going to be in school for possibly the next eight years.
Just on the loan situation and choosing expensive schools...I'm not going to waste eight years of my life on a second-rate education. I know it sounds spoiled, but that's the way I'm looking at it.
That's not to say loans are the answer, there's work-study, work, intelligent spending, grants and scholarships (which aren't always as easy as they seem, but they're there).

I don't want to go into debt, but if it's that or dropping out I'm going into debt. School is important to me.

Do a google search on the name Elizabeth Grosz. She was one of my professors at my "second rate" university.

But if it makes you feel better to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on your education because you think that makes you somehow superior, just be prepared to pay it back on your own. That is your right.

rml_16

People on here are paying so little attention to the cultural and structural factors at play in going to college and getting a job. This debate does not belong on the MFP boards where people without an understanding of a complicated social situation are allowed to post without consequence.

Yes, we simpletons just can't grasp it can we? We should just shut up, right? Let's leave this complicated stuff to the elitists in their ivory towers. Thank you for correcting us, Oh Great and Wise One.

And of course none of us ever went to college or had to find a job.

MFPAddict

So how does a young person who is lucky to make $40K/year out of college (if they are lucky enough to find a job) supposed to pay down on their $50K student loan debt, pay their $1200/month apartment rent, while making payments on their $20K honda civic, while saving up for their $40K down payment, so they can buy their $200K townhouse before they turn 30, because heaven forbids one day they might want to actually start a family. See its almost impossible to start from scratch these days. Most of the young people cannot get out of debt without their parents' help.

Interesting.

I make less than 40k, so does my husband. We have just about the same in student loan debt, pay more for the mortgage on our home, and own both our cars.

Solution?

We have used cars that we paid for with cash. We bought a home that, while it needs work, fits in our budget, and we make smart choices.

He isn't even done getting his degree and it has already cost him 22k a year.

I have two degrees and will be paying them off til I'm 35.

All comes down to you make choices that suit your situation. If I can't afford a brand new car and car payment, I sure as hell aint paying off someone else's school loan.

Well said. I really wanted to respond to that post in more detail earlier but had to leave work. I have been with the same company for close to 20 years and I don't make much more than the $40k he wants college grads to make right out of college. I have several very close friends that are recruiters, and they complain all the time about the sense of entitlement of candidates just out of college. They scoff at job offers they should be grateful to receive.

Also not living in a $200k Townhouse either. Despite being told we could "afford" a much more expensive house, we bought something we knew was within our means. Fixed rate. A payment we could afford. Not an ARM with a lower payment with hopes we are going to get that BIG promotion a few years down the road.

jnh17

I think that this whole topic is just very frustrating.

I graduated from a private university in 2010 with a bachelor's in psychology. Oh, and about $60k in loans that my parents signed for and now I have to pay back.

I couldn't find a worthwhile job (other than retail and nannying) after graduation and thus I decided to get my master's. At least to defer loans long enough for me to find a more substantial job.

I will graduate in December of this year with a master's in psychology. With about $30k in loans. The loans I do have do not cover all of tuition or even books.

I hope to teach at a community college or online. Surprisingly, there are a lot of these jobs available and the pay is pretty good (compared to the $10/hr I am making working as a full time nanny).

Right now I am paying on a parent PLUS loan that my father took out for me my freshman and sophomore years at undergrad. He never asked me how much money I needed for those years, and took out more than I needed. Thanks to dear old Dad and Sallie Mae, the total of my $30K plus loan will be about $60K after ten years. I'm paying on it monthly now.....but when I have to start paying the loans in MY name come May of next year, I may be SOL. While many student loans give you the option of income based repayment, the loan in my Dad's name is completely fixed. Thank god I work full time and can afford things. For now.

What I think people don't realize is that our parents and teachers have been feeding us the idea that going to college is the magical step to a well paying job. You'll have all of your dreams come true if you go to college! Unfortunately, that's not true. I know more unemployed graduates than I do people who actually have anything other than a McJob. College is NOT necessary; it's a waste of time and money.

I hope my children enjoy paying off my student loans after I die.

Okay, no offense here, but it's not the teaching of "if we go to college we'll be rich" that's the problem. It's the "find what you love and make a career out of it!" or "you can be anything you want to be" (that's fine for a 5 year old) that is the issue. Everyone likes psychology -- that's why there are SO many psychology majors -- but there are very limited jobs and a huge, HUGE pool of candidates. People can't honestly believe that I sat in my first accounting class and fell in love with the field. Just like someone else brought up, I'm not going to say I won't help with college expenses for my kids if they pick a useless (not saying yours is useless) degree, but who knows.

I'm sorry but I don't buy into the whole college makes you more "well rounded" and makes our society better as a whole. Really? My college (deep in Texas) professors were cut from the same cloth aside from my criminal justice professors which were a cloth all their own (minor in CJ). You go to get a skill for a job. If I wanted a more well rounded child, I'd send them on missions to actually do some good getting well rounded. Trade schools have been looked down on far too long. In my area, those people make more (refinary operators) than most will ever see. Who gets to make 6 figures right out of school?

MFPAddict

Something else I forgot to add yesterday. Not only did I start off and earn an Associates Degree from a Community College before transferring to a 4 year school, BUT it was a far better learning experience for me than what I received at the University. As a group, my instructors at the Community College were far superior than the instructors I had at the University. Definitely not an example of "getting what you paid for."

angryguy77

Here's a thought, how about we demand the gov institutes an actual pro-growth jobs agenda and abandon it 'spread the wealth around" ideology instead of asking for our loans to be forgiven? That way, people find work and can afford their loan payments.

Instead of demonizing the rich, the gov should encourage people to become wealthy because they are the one who create the jobs. Or we could just tax the rich into oblivion and kill the incentive to better one's self.