Low-Carb High-Fat thoughts & discussion

skullik

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RachelsReboot

There is no metabolic advantage to doing a low-carb and/or ketogenic diet for fat loss.

Does that also mean there is no disadvantage? And to turn it, no advantage to doing a strictly lower calorie diet?

There's no disadvantage. There's nothing wrong with doing a low-carb and/or ketogenic diet. It's a great way to release some extra water, but for fat loss the differences between doing low-carb and just doing a normal calorie deficit diet are minimal.

Physically there might not be much difference for a lot of people (lets throw out those with intolerance's/diabetes/etc for just a moment) but for a lot of people who can't seem to control their intake of carbs because they just fall into worse binging and craving then there is a HUGE advantage to a low carb/high protein diet. Once you can kick the cravings you are in control. If being in control means that someone maintains their 2000 calorie a day limit instead of binging on sugar and other high calorie/high carb foods then that makes a difference. Everyone agrees that almost all of the people here got fat by eating too much, it's a lot more difficult to eat too much on a lower carbohydrate diet. You are getting more volume of food for less calories, more nutritional bang for your buck on top of that.

RachelsReboot

Does low-carb make people high-crabby? Just seems like the low carbers here are a little bit touchy :happy:

How is it the low carbers being crabby when it's the other people who come in with all their crap all the time about how you need carbs, last time I checked low wasn't zero. Why the heck is it so important to them when people eat low carb. I don't go pointing out every diary where someone eats a snickers, or drinks a redbull, or any of those things, it's not my business. If it works for them FANTASTIC! I have not ever told any person they shouldn't eat a lower calorie diet. I don't see other low carbers that do that either. But when someone says they are staying under their calories and are not losing and you look at their diary and they are consuming 500 g of carbs, 25 g of protein and 15 g of fat, you tell them to up their protein, lower the carbs, cut out the sugar and other processed junk, no one ever says CUT OUT YOUR VEGGIES!

Case in point.

How is it case in point? I am a very happy and energetic person, I don't see how stating my view makes me crabby.

tigersword

Weight gain isn't caused by eating low fat, high carb foods. It is from over-eating.

It is, and low fat high carb diet advice is not working in the population at large.

So then how do you explain the Okinawans? They eat very high carb, very low fat, very low protein, and yet, they have no obesity problem, and are much healthier overall.

It's a matter of calorie consumption, not macronutrient ratio.

martinah4

Weight gain isn't caused by eating low fat, high carb foods. It is from over-eating.

It is, and low fat high carb diet advice is not working in the population at large.

So then how do you explain the Okinawans? They eat very high carb, very low fat, very low protein, and yet, they have no obesity problem, and are much healthier overall.

It's a matter of calorie consumption, not macronutrient ratio.

Just from taking a quick glance at an Okinawan diet, it would seem that they eat a whole lot of whole foods and veggies...not a lot of processed or refined food. Very little sugar. One website I found said they eat 20 servings of veggies a day. They eat fish and lean meat, but not as much as American's. They are healthier. I don't think it goes against what people who are low-carb are saying, because most low-carbers eat a ton of veggies, eat very little processed foods, even less sugar. In the bigger picture of the American obesity problem, it seems a lot of is being traced back to eating foods made in factories with ingredients I can't even pronounce.

tigersword

It's got nothing to do with processed food. It's calories. People in the US eat, on average, 2700 calories a day, which is 600 calories more than 40 years ago, and is 700 calories more than the USDA "2000 calorie diet" recommendation. It's really very easy to see the problems when you look at the big picture, rather than try and find one "demon" to blame for it.

Sidesteal

It's got nothing to do with processed food. It's calories. People in the US eat, on average, 2700 calories a day, which is 600 calories more than 40 years ago, and is 700 calories more than the USDA "2000 calorie diet" recommendation. It's really very easy to see the problems when you look at the big picture, rather than try and find one "demon" to blame for it.

And to add to this, a decrease in overall activity.

miceyl

I am 46 years old and have struggled with my weight since age 8. I have gained and lost over the years with WW and other diets. I always looked down at low carb as being too restrictive (thinking Atkins). Starting in January, I started really watching my carbs and discovered how my body reacts. I lost 15 lbs in the first 3 weeks where I eliminated most carbs except vegetables and some fruit. I slowly have worked in COMPLEX, low glycemic carbs into my diet and lost 5 more. It is May and I am maintaining this loss within 2 lbs for the most part. I track my weight and food every day to keep me focused. Like many have said, I am more satisfied eating this way. I eat healthy - very few processed foods. No frozen "diet meals". Lean protein. I am enjoying nuts, avocados, olive oil and many other things I restricted from my diet when I was counting WW points. I want to stress that I am eating LOW carb, not NO carb and enjoy fruits and vegetables as well whole grains in controlled portions. If I eat high carb foods like rice or pasta, I keep the portion very small and avoid carbs at other meals. It is working for me, but everyone is different. I don't think there is a right or wrong way. Some people are more sensitive to carbs and Type 2 Diabetes runs in my family, so that could be why I respond so negatively to a higher carb diet.

raiderrodney

The mentality that eating fat makes you fat is false. Don't buy diet foods, just buy normal foods and eat them in smaller quantities.

I know from personal experience that eating too little fat and replacing your fat deficit with carbs is terrible for your body. My hair thinned out and my nails grew in weird because I genuinely thought things like peanut butter, olive oil, real butter, etc, would "ruin my diet" when in REALITY you need to eat them!

Now I measure out 1 tbsp or two (to make it easier use an 1/8 cup) of full fat peanut butter and eat it almost every day. Reduced fat products are a waste, they're full of fillers and chemicals. Get the real thing, eat a balanced diet, and your body will thank you.

Amen! Excellent response

martinah4

I am 46 years old and have struggled with my weight since age 8. I have gained and lost over the years with WW and other diets. I always looked down at low carb as being too restrictive (thinking Atkins). Starting in January, I started really watching my carbs and discovered how my body reacts. I lost 15 lbs in the first 3 weeks where I eliminated most carbs except vegetables and some fruit. I slowly have worked in COMPLEX, low glycemic carbs into my diet and lost 5 more. It is May and I am maintaining this loss within 2 lbs for the most part. I track my weight and food every day to keep me focused. Like many have said, I am more satisfied eating this way. I eat healthy - very few processed foods. No frozen "diet meals". Lean protein. I am enjoying nuts, avocados, olive oil and many other things I restricted from my diet when I was counting WW points. I want to stress that I am eating LOW carb, not NO carb and enjoy fruits and vegetables as well whole grains in controlled portions. If I eat high carb foods like rice or pasta, I keep the portion very small and avoid carbs at other meals. It is working for me, but everyone is different. I don't think there is a right or wrong way. Some people are more sensitive to carbs and Type 2 Diabetes runs in my family, so that could be why I respond so negatively to a higher carb diet.

Good for you! Diabetes and heart disease run in my family, and I'm taking control of my body NOW, by eating lower carbs, and less processed foods. Weight loss is a side benefit.

meidson

Has anyone read "Lose The Wheat Lose The Weight" by William Davis, MD

According to this book, modern wheat has been changed so that it stimulates appetite and causes us to become overweight and obese as well as many ailments.

You can read about it on this blog: http://www.wheatbellyblog.com/

redheadmommy

That's the point - low carb is hard to do as a lifestyle. I know of all the lowcarb snack options etc. It eventually gets old.
Its easier to portion control and eat foods you like.

What is easy and what is difficult is really depend on the person. The fact that you do not know lot of low carb option it doesn't meant they are not out there.
Any diet gets old and boring if you do not make an effort to make it interesting by eating variety of food.
Yesterday I ate cheese biscuit made of coconut flour and it was yummy, and had liked 2 net carb a lot of fiber and protein. I ate 2small ones and I was stuffed.
I just borrowed a few recipe book from the library and voila an ample of variety of food opened up for me, all low carb, all full of fiber, protein and a tons of nutrition,
Today i am going to make muffins !

RachelsReboot

That's the point - low carb is hard to do as a lifestyle. I know of all the lowcarb snack options etc. It eventually gets old.
Its easier to portion control and eat foods you like.

What is easy and what is difficult is really depend on the person. The fact that you do not know lot of low carb option it doesn't meant they are not out there.
Any diet gets old and boring if you do not make an effort to make it interesting by eating variety of food.
Yesterday I ate cheese biscuit made of coconut flour and it was yummy, and had liked 2 net carb a lot of fiber and protein. I ate 2small ones and I was stuffed.
I just borrowed a few recipe book from the library and voila an ample of variety of food opened up for me, all low carb, all full of fiber, protein and a tons of nutrition,
Today i am going to make muffins !

Can I get that cheese biscuit recipe? I bought some coconut flour the other day and don't remember what I wanted to make with it LOL

LiftHuff

There is no metabolic advantage to doing a low-carb and/or ketogenic diet for fat loss.

Does that also mean there is no disadvantage? And to turn it, no advantage to doing a strictly lower calorie diet?

There's no disadvantage. There's nothing wrong with doing a low-carb and/or ketogenic diet. It's a great way to release some extra water, but for fat loss the differences between doing low-carb and just doing a normal calorie deficit diet are minimal.

The big difference is generally one of satiety. Fats and proteins are generally more filling than carbs, and keep one fuller for longer. So if you are trying to operate on a deficit, sticking to mostly proteins and fats will usually help keep your hunger under control better.

Awkward30

Science says low carb isn't the only way:

Nutr Rev. 2012 Apr;70(4):218-33. doi: 10.1111/j.1753-4887.2012.00454.x.
Relationship between bread consumption, body weight, and abdominal fat distribution: evidence from epidemiological studies.
Bautista-Castaño I, Serra-Majem L.
Source
Department of Clinical Sciences, University of Las Palmas de Gran Canaria, Las Palmas de Gran Canaria, Spain.
Abstract
A long-standing belief held by the general public is that bread fattens. This encourages many people to restrict, or even eliminate, bread from their diet. The present review was conducted to assess whether or not eating patterns that include bread are associated with overall obesity or excess abdominal adiposity, whether in the general population or in subjects undergoing obesity management. The literature search included articles published over the past 30 years that focused on dietary patterns that included bread (refined or whole-grain) and their association with ponderal status and abdominal fat distribution. A total of 38 epidemiological studies fulfilled the inclusion criteria (22 cross-sectional, 11 prospective cohort, and five intervention). The results indicate that dietary patterns that include whole-grain bread do not positively influence weight gain and may be beneficial to ponderal status. With respect to dietary patterns that include refined bread, the majority of cross-sectional studies indicate beneficial effects, while most of the well-designed cohort studies demonstrate a possible relationship with excess abdominal fat. Because differences in the study designs make it difficult to form definitive conclusions, more studies are needed that focus specifically on bread consumption, within different dietary patterns, and its influence on ponderal status.

Clin Nutr. 2011 Dec 30. [Epub ahead of print]
Evaluation of the usefulness of a low-calorie diet with or without bread in the treatment of overweight/obesity.
Loria-Kohen V, Gómez-Candela C, Fernández-Fernández C, Pérez-Torres A, García-Puig J, Bermejo LM.
Source
Nutrition Department, La Paz University Hospital, Paseo de la Castellana 261, 28046, Health Research Institute IdiPAZ, Madrid Spain.
Abstract
BACKGROUND & AIMS:
Despite the lack of scientific evidence, bread is one of the most restricted foods in popular hypocaloric diets. The aim of this study was to compare two nutrition strategies (with or without bread) designed to promote weight loss in overweight/obese women.
METHODS:
A clinical, prospective and randomised study in which 122 women >18 years, BMI ≥ 25 < 40 kg/m(2) were divided into two groups: intervention group (BREAD, n = 61) and control group (NO BREAD, n = 61). Both groups received a low-calorie diet (with or without bread), nutrition education and physical activity guidelines, and were monitored for 16 weeks.
RESULTS:
104 women completed the study (48.4 ± 9 years, 29.8 ± 3.5 kg/m(2)). Anthropometric and biochemical markers improved after the intervention without significant differences between groups. BREAD group significantly increased total cereal consumption (3.2 ± 1.3 to 3.7 ± 0.5 servings/day, P < 0.05) and the percentage of energy from carbohydrates (41.2 ± 6.4 vs. 45.9 ± 5.0% P < 0.001) and reduced fat (39.0 ± 6.6 vs. 32.7 ± 5.1% P < 0.001). In contrast, NO BREAD group increased the discrepancy with recommended consumption. NO BREAD group had the most dropouts (21.3% vs. 6.6%, P < 0.05).
CONCLUSION:
The bread inclusion in a low-calorie diet designed for weight loss favoured a better evolution of dietetic parameters and greater compliance with the diet with fewer dropouts. Registered under ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier no. NCT01223989.

BonMetz

I've been following a low carb high fat diet for a month now and I've lost a stone so it does work for losing weight, although I do understand why people disagree. I didn't gain my extra weight from eating carb foods it was from overeating the wrong foods and doing little exercise!! Fact!

I've used the low carb diet to try and control sugar cravings and basically cut out all the bad carbs which were the only kind of carbs i was having before. This has worked for me. All of my carbs now come from vegetables.

I eat about 20 carbs a day some days a bit less and they all come from veggies. I LOVE my low carb diet and feel wonderful.

RachelsReboot

Science says low carb isn't the only way



RESULTS:
104 women completed the study (48.4 ± 9 years, 29.8 ± 3.5 kg/m(2)). Anthropometric and biochemical markers improved after the intervention without significant differences between groups. BREAD group significantly increased total cereal consumption (3.2 ± 1.3 to 3.7 ± 0.5 servings/day, P < 0.05) and the percentage of energy from carbohydrates (41.2 ± 6.4 vs. 45.9 ± 5.0% P < 0.001) and reduced fat (39.0 ± 6.6 vs. 32.7 ± 5.1% P < 0.001). In contrast, NO BREAD group increased the discrepancy with recommended consumption. NO BREAD group had the most dropouts (21.3% vs. 6.6%, P < 0.05).
CONCLUSION:
The bread inclusion in a low-calorie diet designed for weight loss favoured a better evolution of dietetic parameters and greater compliance with the diet with fewer dropouts. Registered under ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier no. NCT01223989.

So can you explain these results to us in laymans terms? I also want to point out that I don't think any of us low carbers say or preach that it's the only way. I think I speak for many of us when I say we just want people to accept that its OUR way and quit bashing, bullying and telling us our brains will cease to function.

martinah4

It's got nothing to do with processed food. It's calories. People in the US eat, on average, 2700 calories a day, which is 600 calories more than 40 years ago, and is 700 calories more than the USDA "2000 calorie diet" recommendation. It's really very easy to see the problems when you look at the big picture, rather than try and find one "demon" to blame for it.

I read this as saying that it's only about calories, the type of food doesn't matter? Because a twinkie (150 calories) = 5 cups of broccoli (30 cal/cup) = roughly 2 apples (80 calories each). I'm going out a limb and saying that the Okinawans are not healthy because they've been eating Twinkies every day for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

American's may be eating more, but it's not from over-eating veggies. It's from drinking 32 oz sodas, and going back for refills, it's from having a triple portion of ramen noodles, and 1/2 a bag of Cheetos for dessert. All of those = made in a factory.

Sidesteal

It's got nothing to do with processed food. It's calories. People in the US eat, on average, 2700 calories a day, which is 600 calories more than 40 years ago, and is 700 calories more than the USDA "2000 calorie diet" recommendation. It's really very easy to see the problems when you look at the big picture, rather than try and find one "demon" to blame for it.

I read this as saying that it's only about calories, the type of food doesn't matter? Because a twinkie (150 calories) = 5 cups of broccoli (30 cal/cup) = roughly 2 apples (80 calories each). I'm going out a limb and saying that the Okinawans are not healthy because they've been eating Twinkies every day for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

American's may be eating more, but it's not from over-eating veggies. It's from drinking 32 oz sodas, and going back for refills, it's from having a triple portion of ramen noodles, and 1/2 a bag of Cheetos for dessert. All of those = made in a factory.

I believe he's just saying that the overconsumption of calories is what makes people fat.

tigersword

Science says low carb isn't the only way



RESULTS:
104 women completed the study (48.4 ± 9 years, 29.8 ± 3.5 kg/m(2)). Anthropometric and biochemical markers improved after the intervention without significant differences between groups. BREAD group significantly increased total cereal consumption (3.2 ± 1.3 to 3.7 ± 0.5 servings/day, P < 0.05) and the percentage of energy from carbohydrates (41.2 ± 6.4 vs. 45.9 ± 5.0% P < 0.001) and reduced fat (39.0 ± 6.6 vs. 32.7 ± 5.1% P < 0.001). In contrast, NO BREAD group increased the discrepancy with recommended consumption. NO BREAD group had the most dropouts (21.3% vs. 6.6%, P < 0.05).
CONCLUSION:
The bread inclusion in a low-calorie diet designed for weight loss favoured a better evolution of dietetic parameters and greater compliance with the diet with fewer dropouts. Registered under ClinicalTrials.gov Identifier no. NCT01223989.

So can you explain these results to us in laymans terms? I also want to point out that I don't think any of us low carbers say or preach that it's the only way. I think I speak for many of us when I say we just want people to accept that its OUR way and quit bashing, bullying and telling us our brains will cease to function.

In laymen's terms, the people who ate bread ate higher carbs and lower fat than the group that didn't eat bread. Health markers in both groups both improved about the same amount. More people dropped out of the study from the no bread group, (13 people) compared to the bread group (4 people.) Basically it says higher carb diets are easier to stick to and offer the same health benefits and results as cutting out carbs and bread.

As for your second part, there have been several threads posted in just the past few days on the "evilness" of carbs from low carb pushers, as well as the insistence that people need to cut carbs out in just about every thread talking about someone's diet.