What's more important: Weight or Physique?

scott091501

Good night. Why do people obsess over BMI. It's an antiquated way of looking at things. For instance a professional athlete who is say 5'8" 190 lbs and 8% bf is probably considered obsese by that scale. Sound right to you? Nope, doesn't pass the eyeball test.

Why would anyone listen to the establishment about nutrition and weight related issues anyway? Heck look at the recommended daily allowances put on food labels and tell me they aren't on crack, but that's a discussion for another day.

Dudagarcia

Thank you for this post you're absolutely right! I will say physique

allifantastical

It took me a long time to get thinking this way, but definitely physique. Screw the number on the scale.

BigBoneSista

Weight was more important until I started to educate myself on weight loss and the effects of strength training. Now I strength train more and do less cardio. I'm loving the transformation of my body.

fitnfancy80

physique

taliasometimes

when i look how i want, the scale wont be a factor in my life.

it was handy to get me healthy but it can be thrown out a window as i get the physique right.

scott091501

Thanks for responding. I haven't wanted to do strength training as I'm focusing on reducing body fat (not necessarily adding muscle in its place for now), and getting to a healthy BMI as my goal. It's not that my 120lbs goal weight based on BMI is a final goal, but that it's the marker to show I'm at a 'healthy weight' which I feel is important.

Clinical studies conclude that adding strength training increases fat loss (if that is your goal) in conjunction with diet. Also anyone with more lean muscle will usually be deemed as overweight on the BMI scale.

I'm going to keep the weight off, that's not an issue, nor is the speed at which I lose, or the look. For me, it's about nutrition and health, with the focus being on a body that will last, not necessarily one that looks good. That's why, for now, I'm solely doing cardio - working on my heart and lungs.

While cardio IS important, many Journals of Medicine have emphatically concluded that strength training is essential to good health. This is why seniors and others who may be cardio fit are still encouraged to strength train since it has a direct effect on joint support, bone density increase, reduction in muscle injury, etc.

If strength training is something you don't want to do or don't care to do, then just admit it. That's a personal choice. But there are way too many benefits to disregard it and to equalize cardio as having the same benefits is a reach.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

To elaborate on this all of the folks I know who have sub 10% body fat happen to be body builders and personal trainers. They avoid cardio like the plague. The extent of their cardio is to walk on a treadmill for an hour or so fasted in the morning. They control their bf % by lifting and what they put in their mouth.

Now if we want to talk overall health I'd assert they aren't the healthiest folks I know overall. Cardiovascularlly their systems are far behind mine as a triathlete. And mine behind theirs muscularly (type II muscles at least). For most of the populace the healthiest point is a mixture of the two. So please don't say you want to be as healthy as you possibly can before focussing on physique because in all honesty just dieting and doing cardio is neglecting so many other systems in your body that lead to overall health.

sewerchick93

Physique hands down

Josee76

Good night. Why do people obsess over BMI. It's an antiquated way of looking at things. For instance a professional athlete who is say 5'8" 190 lbs and 8% bf is probably considered obsese by that scale. Sound right to you? Nope, doesn't pass the eyeball test.

Why would anyone listen to the establishment about nutrition and weight related issues anyway? Heck look at the recommended daily allowances put on food labels and tell me they aren't on crack, but that's a discussion for another day.

Good point! I had a body composition test done yesterday.... my BMI is overweight and pretty darn close to being obese, however my % of body fat is average healthy.

Bearface115

i want to lose weight first, then work on my physiique, i keep getting demotivated when i dont see the reflection on the sclae, when i wanna jut get down to my goal weight, So I personally want to LOSE WEIGHT, then work on PHYSIQUE! Everyone looks great by the way :-D

81Katz

when i look how i want, the scale wont be a factor in my life.

it was handy to get me healthy but it can be thrown out a window as i get the physique right.

I agree with this, I hope I can get there soon. I have been at this almost 2 years, only on MFP since Jan 2012. My scale was my proof before MFP and during. I didn't take before pics and I didn't do many measurements so my scale was my proof, then my clothes getting bigger and bigger was the proof, building up endurance to exercise was the proof.

I still have some work to do, toning up some jiggle and working on other areas but I am much healthier than I have ever been in my adult life, I feel better, I look better, I weigh less now than I did in high school. Maybe to some that's a dumb thing to be happy about but for me it's not. I feel I have come a long way and even in small ways such as only weighing once a week instead of daily which just became mental torture for me (yeah yeah I was one of those).

To each their own. It's about both for me. It started out purely for vanity reasons and then morphed into looking good AND feeling good. If my body was 100% where I wanted it to look I think I could do without weighing anymore. We'll see when or if I get there and have a body I can look at and still not find flaws. :blushing:

karmah2771

Both. Right now I am so overweight that I fall into the morbidly obese category. The pounds most definitely need to come off. I am aiming for a range of 160-150 as a final weight. That would be the higher side of a "normal" amount of weight for my height. That said, I know that when I do reach that goal that I want a lot of that weight to be muscle related weight and hope that my physical appearance will reflect that as well. I have been doing cardio and am going to start circuit training (strength & cardio). I am unable to really lift heavy weights as this time due to physical limitations. But maybe someday I will recover enough that I can do so.

IronmanPanda

Thanks for responding. I haven't wanted to do strength training as I'm focusing on reducing body fat (not necessarily adding muscle in its place for now), and getting to a healthy BMI as my goal. It's not that my 120lbs goal weight based on BMI is a final goal, but that it's the marker to show I'm at a 'healthy weight' which I feel is important.

Clinical studies conclude that adding strength training increases fat loss (if that is your goal) in conjunction with diet. Also anyone with more lean muscle will usually be deemed as overweight on the BMI scale.

I'm going to keep the weight off, that's not an issue, nor is the speed at which I lose, or the look. For me, it's about nutrition and health, with the focus being on a body that will last, not necessarily one that looks good. That's why, for now, I'm solely doing cardio - working on my heart and lungs.

While cardio IS important, many Journals of Medicine have emphatically concluded that strength training is essential to good health. This is why seniors and others who may be cardio fit are still encouraged to strength train since it has a direct effect on joint support, bone density increase, reduction in muscle injury, etc.

If strength training is something you don't want to do or don't care to do, then just admit it. That's a personal choice. But there are way too many benefits to disregard it and to equalize cardio as having the same benefits is a reach.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

To elaborate on this all of the folks I know who have sub 10% body fat happen to be body builders and personal trainers. They avoid cardio like the plague. The extent of their cardio is to walk on a treadmill for an hour or so fasted in the morning. They control their bf % by lifting and what they put in their mouth.

Now if we want to talk overall health I'd assert they aren't the healthiest folks I know overall. Cardiovascularlly their systems are far behind mine as a triathlete. And mine behind theirs muscularly (type II muscles at least). For most of the populace the healthiest point is a mixture of the two. So please don't say you want to be as healthy as you possibly can before focussing on physique because in all honesty just dieting and doing cardio is neglecting so many other systems in your body that lead to overall health.

I'm going to agree with Scott on most of this. In the past I used to only strength train but I was never as fit as I am now. While I agree that everyone should do some type of strength training I believe that overall health and fitness should come first.

Like I said before what's the point of "looking" good when you can't run a mile without being winded? I wouldn't call that healthy.

castadiva

Building lean mass, otherwise known as muscle tissue, means that your body burns calories more efficiently. In the long run, that means you will lose weight more easily, and critically, keep it off more easily.

Lean mass also doesn't store various potentially-harmful hormones and chemicals in the same way that fat does, so an increase in lean mass and a commensurate decrease in non-lean mass may be protective against various diseases and illnesses that are related to excess fat.

Lean muscle mass also provides protection and support for your joints. Strength training can have a preventitive effect against various joint-issues.

On a purely visual level, a little strength training now (I use a five lb hand weight and a few body-weight exercises) will mean that as you lose weight, your physique will already be more in line to match up visually with your weight-related goals.

Why do you not want to do strength training? It needn't be a 'one-or-t'other' strength or cardio approach - both are good.

Thanks for responding. I haven't wanted to do strength training as I'm focusing on reducing body fat (not necessarily adding muscle in its place for now), and getting to a healthy BMI as my goal. It's not that my 120lbs goal weight based on BMI is a final goal, but that it's the marker to show I'm at a 'healthy weight' which I feel is important.

I'm going to keep the weight off, that's not an issue, nor is the speed at which I lose, or the look. For me, it's about nutrition and health, with the focus being on a body that will last, not necessarily one that looks good. That's why, for now, I'm solely doing cardio - working on my heart and lungs.

Niner has pretty much said the things I wanted to say, but here goes anyway on a couple of fronts. Firstly, I would very much caution you against using the BMI as a measurement of 'health' - it was designed to measure populations, rather than individuals, and is badly flawed as a measuring system when misused, as it all-too-frequently is, as a signpost of individual health. The chart as it is currently used has been scaled downwards several times as the World Health Organisation expanded its' reach to encompass (particularly) Asian and Oriental populations, which are typically smaller-framed that your average person of European descent, effectively trying to make apples and oranges conform to a single standard of shape.

Many very healthy and fit individuals are not in the "healthy" category according to the BMI charts - athletes and actors are often quoted, but 'normal' people too. I make no claim at all to being physically perfect, but I can tell you (confirmed by my GP yesterday), that for me to be a 'healthy' weight on BMI terms would be decidedly unhealthy - my 'ideal' "healthy" weight in his mind is some 10kg (22lb), give or take, more than the chart suggests - a BMI of approximately 27, well into 'overweight'. There are a number of other measures that may give you a more accurate marker than BMI - hip/waist ratios are good, body fat measurements/body composition measurements are even better. Perhaps someone could suggest a good online calculator?? There are plenty if you google, but I'd rather you were directed to a good one, if you don't have the facilities to have it medically-tested.

Secondly: "a body that will last"... One of the most common operations given to those in later mid-life and old age is joint-replacement - hips, knees, you name it. Many forms of cardio exercise can be pretty hard on the joints, and the only real way of protecting them is to do some strength training to develop the muscles to take more of the strain, and protect those critical bendy points into later life. Strength training is also particularly good for combatting osteoporosis, which leads to bones becoming less dense and more brittle. Women especially (and particularly those on low-fat diets, which may apply to you?) are increasingly being urged to incorporate strength exercises into their routine to guard against this. A body that really lasts is a strong one, not necessarily one that conforms to an ideal weight.

Others have already said what I wanted to say about the loss of lean body mass alongside fat loss, and said it better than I could, so I'm going to leave that one alone!

Of course nutrition and cardiovascular health are important, and I can understand feeling a bit overwhelmed if you're just starting out, trying to focus on so many new things at once. All I can say is that there are very good and valid reasons to do even a little strength training alongside your cardio, and you might find that it makes this undertaking just that bit easier. Good luck!

This keeps on posting as a quote - no idea why!

dhakiyya

Many very healthy and fit individuals are not in the "healthy" category according to the BMI charts - athletes and actors are often quoted, but 'normal' people too. I make no claim at all to being physically perfect, but I can tell you (confirmed by my GP yesterday), that for me to be a 'healthy' weight on BMI terms would be decidedly unhealthy - my 'ideal' "healthy" weight in his mind is some 10kg (22lb), give or take, more than the chart suggests - a BMI of approximately 27, well into 'overweight'. There are a number of other measures that may give you a more accurate marker than BMI - hip/waist ratios are good, body fat measurements/body composition measurements are even better. Perhaps someone could suggest a good online calculator??

There's the Navy formula - it's not perfect and tends to overestimate body fat in short people and people who are very obese, but if you take that into account it's a good way to measure progress and see where you are. http://www.webcalcsolutions.com/fitness-calculators/body-fat-navy.asp?acctnum=3

There's also this one: http://www.healthcentral.com/cholesterol/home-body-fat-test-2774-143.html this one uses your weight and a range of inch measurements to calculate your body fat percentage, lbs of fat and lbs of lean (i.e. not fat) body mass.

I use the two together, at the present time they give pretty similar results, but when I had more body fat the navy formula was estimating it at significantly higher.

Also you can use calipers to measure body fat percentage, that's more accurate than the above calculators. Don't rely on a single way of measuring progress, it's best to look at a few different things, the most important one how you look in the mirror. If you look fit, lean and toned then you are, no matter what any scale, chart, calculator or anything else says.

I second everything that orpheus chick says as well. And someone recommended reading "burn the fat, feed the muscle" by Tom Venuto - I second that as well,

There are so many health benefits to strength training that everyone who is able to do so should seriously consider it. Even if they don't want to lose any fat.

crisanderson27

I'm certainly in no rush to get to my goal, and for me it's better to focus on one thing at once. It's important to me to know that I'm down to a healthy weight, before I start any form of weight training.

Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense to get to a "healthy weight" and actually "be healthy" at the same time? If you reach the weight without being physically fit, then how healthy is the weight?


A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I wouldn't say muscles are the only measure of health.

Of course not, but exercising with weights more than just affects your muscles. Your metabolism becomes more efficient, you build a stronger heart, you increase blood flow, you increase your immunity, etc. These are aspects of health also.


A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

And surely ones also available without working on physique?

What can improving my physique do that working on eating right, getting the right nutrition, hydrating well and doing cardio can't? Other than (as has been said) a faster metabolism resulting in faster loss, which isn't something I'm bothered about?

You can lead a horse to water...that's for sure.

How about basic physical ability for one. Sure, you may not NEED to use it, but it makes every day tasks much easier, and less taxing on your body. How about the proven health and anti-aging benifits of naturally produced growth hormone that weight training stimulates (and cardio absolutely does NOT!)? How about the fact that your body isn't using a substantial portion of its own lean mass for an energy resource?

The list is long, and I could continue...but it's clear that you've no interest whatsoever in listening to it, so I'll stop right there.

'but it's clear that you've no interest whatsoever in listening to it'?

Then why would I have gone to the effort of asking? Really, there's no need to be so rude. I'm asking people to tell me the benefits of starting work on my physique now, rather than at a time when I'm closer to goal weight, so that I can consider whether or not I feel it's worth it.

I hope someone will bother to explain the benefits that I can't get from my current exercise. I'll take away the information about the growth hormone from your post, though, so thanks for that.

I'm sorry that you took my reply as rude. It wasn't intended in that way. It was however a simple, and accurate observation. People ask questions all the time that they have no intention of listening to the answers to. MANY of the health benefits strength training provides were listed before I posted...yet you refused them. There were others between this post of yours, and your next post. You refused them.

There's been some VERY good posts since. Will you refuse those also?

Either way...I know for certain that I am FAR healthier overall performing my strength training workouts, in a circuit training format, than I would be if I simply did cardio. And in the end...that's what matters for all of us. As Niner said, if don't want to strength train...good for you, it's certainly your choice and I've still respected far worse decisions in my life based on them being another person personal choice. But to claim that cardio and strength training provide equal benefits healthwise is simply inaccurate. The benefits to strength training far outweigh the benefits of cardio. This isn't to say cardio has none, or that cardio shouldn't be included in your exercise routine at all (sad that i have to clarify that). It's simply that the benefits don't equal those of strength training.

rahrahrita

Physique is much more important to me, but when I was heavier, my weight was more important. I've always had muscle, but you just couldn't see it because of the layer of fat all over my body. Now that a lot of the fat is gone, I feel like I can focus on how I want my body to look rather than how much I want to weigh.

fiona2785

Right now I would say weight since I'm at 285 lbs BUT when I get down to 220 or lower then the physique will become more of a priority.

^^^ Definitely agree with this! There has to be a measure of progress to keep you going, and in the initial stages when you can't see or even measure any change in physique, weight going down is important. There's nothing more depressing than trying really hard and being unable to measure any results!

runnercheryl

Thanks to all who took the time to respond to all my questions. It seems a few people thought I was ignoring the benefits in responses between my posts, but I was trying to get comprehensive information to better make my decision and some of the initial posts seemed focused on only how toning made the body look, or how it could benefit the same areas that cardio did.

Anyway, I'm getting myself a kettle bell as soon as my next client pays an invoice, and I'll incorporate strength workouts a few times a week. Thinking maybe two strength days to four cardio (not in that order). Apologies if it seems a bit off-topic, but if anyone thinks I'd be better off doing 3/3 or 1/5 strength/cardio, let me know.

mfpcopine

Looking great DOESN'T always reflect a good number on the scale. ...

If you look great, people DON'T CARE how much you weigh. Only you do.


..

I'm not saying that conventional beauty standards and health are exactly the same, but there usually is a relationship. If one is at a weight that is generally considered unhealthy, one should do something about it.

For example, if one's doctor recommends losing weight, that advice should be followed. Physicians are not concerned with whether you're cute. Their job is to keep you healthy. Being extremely overweight or obese are associated with serious health problems.

But if a desire to look good supports one's weight loss and fitness efforts, what's wrong with that? Just be realistic.

KeRAWRi

It's about how you feel. And how healthy you are for that matter. The scale can say you're 10 lbs overweight but you can still look amazing and have good cholesterol, blood pressure, etc.

CoffeeNBooze

Weight, for me. If all I cared about was physique I'd just work out 3 times a week and keep everything else the same. But I look better and feel better when I'm at a certain weight and that is what I am comfortable in. I don't have any shame in that

mellabyte

Health is what's most important to me. (See my profile for why, I had the most evil of trifectas.) So the benefits that come with that (lower weight and better looking physique) are just bonuses.

But, to err on the side of vanity. I'm at the point where it's physique. I want to get the flat stomach and that toned, fit look. I want to wear fitted shirts without feeling like a lumpy, human burrito.

dhakiyya

Thanks to all who took the time to respond to all my questions. It seems a few people thought I was ignoring the benefits in responses between my posts, but I was trying to get comprehensive information to better make my decision and some of the initial posts seemed focused on only how toning made the body look, or how it could benefit the same areas that cardio did.

Anyway, I'm getting myself a kettle bell as soon as my next client pays an invoice, and I'll incorporate strength workouts a few times a week. Thinking maybe two strength days to four cardio (not in that order). Apologies if it seems a bit off-topic, but if anyone thinks I'd be better off doing 3/3 or 1/5 strength/cardio, let me know.

If you're a beginner at strength training, then a whole body workout 2x a week is a good way to start... but I'd advise building that up to 3x a week as you build your strength. That's a good level for maintaining lean body mass and bone strength while losing fat. Further down the line you can switch to other things, like a split routine (where you do different body parts on different days and do strength training on several days in the week) if you want to build your muscles up a bit more.

One thing with strength training, is you don't work the same body parts two days in a row - your muscles need time to rest and recover. So if you'are doing a whole body routine 3x a week you'd do that on (say) Mon, Wed, Fri, then do cardio on the days in between. If you're just working out with the weights 2x a week to begin with (a good way to start) try to space them through the week, e.g. Mon, Thurs, then cardio on other days. A split routine you might do two or more days on weights, but not the same body parts, e.g. mon-legs, tues-upper body (etc). But to begin with whole body routines are best, and space them out so you give your muscles time to recover. Cardio you can do one day after another because it doesn't work the muscles as intensely.

crisanderson27

Thanks to all who took the time to respond to all my questions. It seems a few people thought I was ignoring the benefits in responses between my posts, but I was trying to get comprehensive information to better make my decision and some of the initial posts seemed focused on only how toning made the body look, or how it could benefit the same areas that cardio did.

Anyway, I'm getting myself a kettle bell as soon as my next client pays an invoice, and I'll incorporate strength workouts a few times a week. Thinking maybe two strength days to four cardio (not in that order). Apologies if it seems a bit off-topic, but if anyone thinks I'd be better off doing 3/3 or 1/5 strength/cardio, let me know.

If you're a beginner at strength training, then a whole body workout 2x a week is a good way to start... but I'd advise building that up to 3x a week as you build your strength. That's a good level for maintaining lean body mass and bone strength while losing fat. Further down the line you can switch to other things, like a split routine (where you do different body parts on different days and do strength training on several days in the week) if you want to build your muscles up a bit more.

One thing with strength training, is you don't work the same body parts two days in a row - your muscles need time to rest and recover. So if you'are doing a whole body routine 3x a week you'd do that on (say) Mon, Wed, Fri, then do cardio on the days in between. If you're just working out with the weights 2x a week to begin with (a good way to start) try to space them through the week, e.g. Mon, Thurs, then cardio on other days. A split routine you might do two or more days on weights, but not the same body parts, e.g. mon-legs, tues-upper body (etc). But to begin with whole body routines are best, and space them out so you give your muscles time to recover. Cardio you can do one day after another because it doesn't work the muscles as intensely.

This is pretty good advice. I usually recommend 3x a week to start though...and allow your intensity to build (it will naturally anyway as you get comfortable with your routine). That way you're already in the habit of performing on those days, and how hard you push is the only thing you modify.

The only other thing I see is that kettle bells are honestly going to be a more endurance based workout. It's resistance training, but not strength training precisely. By all means feel free to pick them up...but if you don't want to spend a lot of money and still want the benefits of heavy strength training, you can certainly use bodyweight. ANY exercise performed at a level of resistance where you can only perform 5-8 reps, is considered heavy strength training. If you'd like I'll be more than happy to PM you an excellent bodyweight strength training program. I used it to lose 40lbs in 3mos...doing little to no cardio (only HIIT heavy bag work, really). You are more than welcome to continue your cardio in between while doing that program also. Bloodflow, assisted by a lightly elevated heart rate, is excellent to help with repair (it will also ease soreness!), and can only increase the benefits of strength training.

One last thing I wanted to say, is that I went through and reread my posts. I can certainly see how you felt you were being pushed, and that is in NO way what I meant to do. The problem is that the things you were saying are the exact things perpetuating a very prevalent myth, and are honestly detrimental to so many women's efforts to be healthy overall, and lose the weight they wish to quickly and safely. That myth needs dispelled at every opportunity.

Anyhow, again...let me know if you'd like that program. I've listed it elsewhere in these forums, and it's also on my profile...but I'll be happy to break it down for you in a PM, where you can respond with questions if you need clarification.

runnercheryl

Thanks again, everyone. I knew to alternate days, so I'll aim to do strength training on Tues, Thurs and Sat.

Will see how it goes!

Anyhow, again...let me know if you'd like that program. I've listed it elsewhere in these forums, and it's also on my profile...but I'll be happy to break it down for you in a PM, where you can respond with questions if you need clarification.

Thank you. I've had a look at your profile and it looks complicated. Since I only have an hour left of my evening in which to relax and I'm going away for the weekend I won't try and decipher it now, but I'll take a look next week and will PM for clarification if I need to. Appreciate it.

Ripcode

Physique.

crisanderson27

Thanks again, everyone. I knew to alternate days, so I'll aim to do strength training on Tues, Thurs and Sat.

Will see how it goes!

Anyhow, again...let me know if you'd like that program. I've listed it elsewhere in these forums, and it's also on my profile...but I'll be happy to break it down for you in a PM, where you can respond with questions if you need clarification.

Thank you. I've had a look at your profile and it looks complicated. Since I only have an hour left of my evening in which to relax and I'm going away for the weekend I won't try and decipher it now, but I'll take a look next week and will PM for clarification if I need to. Appreciate it.

Definitely not a problem! It's written in a somewhat complicated format...but it's actually very simple. The 'complicated' part is just so that you have a listing of exercises you can perform right off the bat.

If we don't talk again, and you do end up using it...I wish you the best of it. It really is very effective .

Have a nice weekend away!

:flowerforyou:

contingencyplan

According to my doctor my target weight is still a good 30 or so lbs above what the BMI scale would consider healthy for my height. So frankly I couldn't care less about weight. It's all about function for me.

ninerbuff

I like being overweight on the BMI scale.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition