TIME magazine and breast feeding a 4 year old

lillebanon

Also, their spin on AP was so totally off. I did AP because it was easy for me. Breastfeeding was easier than mixing up formula bottles (even leaving aside the well-documented and really incontrovertible health benefits). Safe co-sleeping was easier than getting up in the middle of the night -- I was pretty well-rested even with a newborn, and how many American new mothers can say that? Babywearing was easier than dealing with a stroller, and made taking care of my other kids a snap. The magazine was trying to make this a mommy wars issue (and apparently they succeeded), but AP is not about "I'm a better mom than you!" It's about "This works for me and/or my partner and my child" and if it doesn't work for you, then don't do it. Just don't get all judgmental because I do it.

^^^This. I did all of the above because it was easier for me. I mean, the wonderful close bond is a great side effect, but lets face it, I mostly just wanted a good night's rest. )

InnerFatGirl

I am sick of the ignorance surrounding breastfeeding.

One, the WHO recommends at least 2 years old. The average weaning age is 4.

Number two, we think NOTHING of giving our children COW'S breastmilk until God knows how long, but balk at species appropiate milk.

Three, BREASTS ARE FOR NURSING. People complain about people breastfeeding in public when you can see more boob at the beach, or when someone's wearing a low cut top. Where's the cries of 'it's inappropiate!' then?

I wish people would just leave breastfeeding the hell alone. Breastfeeding, not crappy formula, kept our species alive for most of our existence. It is superior to the junk we give kids today, and it is SPECIALLY formulated for YOUR child.

Jesus feckin' christ, the day breasts are actually allowed to be used for their actual function without criticism is the day we go up a notch in consciousness.

And I really wish people would stop saying things like 'he's gonna be psychologically damaged/bullied!' or 'that's sexual abuse!' or 'she's doing it for herself!'. Just think about what you're saying for a second.

And to the Mumma, GOOD ON YOU, for being strong enough to do this, despite the criticism. In a world where so many babies don't even get a month of breastmilk, you're doing a great thing.

InnerFatGirl

Please don't let this influence your decision to continue, it your son still wants to feed great he will wean himself - mine did. He started reducing from around a year and then by 17 months was just a nightime feed and he was fully weaned at 18 months, my daughter followed a similar pattern and weaned at two.
My children are the healthiest in my family and I think it is down to the fact that my children were breastfed.

Unfortunatley there are some strong opinions on this site and many from those who haven't breastfed, which is slightly disturbing that they hold such strong opinions without the experience...

The top and bottom of this debate is that people are sexualising breasts and that is their problem, not yours you are using them for what they are intended for - sorry rant over.

^this.

InnerFatGirl

My personal opinion... so don't attack me for it. I think breast feeding is great, wonderful, and an amazing thing that is absolutely the best nutrition for a baby. However, I also think that once a child gets teeth, it's time for them to stop sucking from the teat. If you still want to pump and give them breast milk in a bottle or a cup, I think that would be fine and much more appropriate.

Some babies are BORN with teeth. I guess they have to go straight to solids and a sippy cup and never nurse?

I've never heard of that. You can't possibly hold it against me simply because I didn't know that. Obviously, that's not what I was implying. Most children are supposed to start eating solid foods or semi-solid foods when they begin getting their teeth in, which for my son was about 6 months old.

I'm not holding anything against you. I'm simply saying, you can't use physical milestones like that to dictate readiness for weaning. All children are different. The WHO recommends at least two to three years of breastfeeding (exclusive for the first 6 months), and as long thereafter as is mutually beneficial and comfortable for mother and child.

It's a personal preference - hence the "mutually beneficial and comfortable for mother AND child" part of what you said. If I feel that my child having their teeth come in should dictate them moving on to food that is my choice and my right as a mother.

I didn't say it wasn't. I'm simply saying that the recommendation is two to three years, so when people say how all children should be weaned and given pumped milk by the time they have teeth (which you're not the only one), it's misinformed. If that's what YOU would like to do, that's fine. Awesome, even. But try not to project your opinions onto others, especially when your opinions are opposite of the WHO's recommendations for optimal health.

I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone, just stating it. Also, please note that I never said I thought all children should stop drinking breast milk when they have teeth, just that they should stop drinking from the teat. Pumped breast milk is still breast milk, after all. Giving the child the ability to drink from a cup or a bottle when they are ready is a good thing in that it promotes independence and mental growth, maturity. That may not be for everyone though, and that's fine. That's just how I feel about it as a mother. I wouldn't look down on anyone for doing something different. To each their own. Every child is indeed different and has different needs, as every parent is different as well.

Please learn about breastfeeding. It is necessary to drink from the teat to stimulate proper milk production and letting down. And it is still part of a bonding experience.

And breastfeeding doesn't prevent indepenence, mental growth and maturity any more than hugging your child when they cry does.

InnerFatGirl

I think that cover photo and title are pretty ridiculous. That said, my son who turns 3 in August still nurses at bedtime.

Here is a list of some of the amazing, well-researched benefits of breastfeeding BEYOND infancy:

http://kellymom.com/ages/older-infant/ebf-benefits/

And statements from real experts:

* The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that “Breastfeeding should be continued for at least the first year of life and beyond for as long as mutually desired by mother and child… Increased duration of breastfeeding confers significant health and developmental benefits for the child and the mother… There is no upper limit to the duration of breastfeeding and no evidence of psychologic or developmental harm from breastfeeding into the third year of life or longer.” (AAP 2005)

* The American Academy of Family Physicians recommends that breastfeeding continue throughout the first year of life and that “As recommended by the WHO, breastfeeding should ideally continue beyond infancy, but this is not the cultural norm in the United States and requires ongoing support and encouragement. It has been estimated that a natural weaning age for humans is between two and seven years. Family physicians should be knowledgeable regarding the ongoing benefits to the child of extended breastfeeding, including continued immune protection, better social adjustment, and having a sustainable food source in times of emergency. The longer women breastfeed, the greater the decrease in their risk of breast cancer.” They also note that “If the child is younger than two years of age, the child is at increased risk of illness if weaned.” (AAFP 2008)

As for children being traumatized by the memory of suckling from their mother's breast, that is a complete load...
I remember when my younger sister was born and my mom was nursing her (so I would have been close to 4 years old) coming in and seeing her nursing and asking if I could have some too. My mom allowed me to. At that point I remember being surprised that it tasted warm and sweet, because by that age I was used to drinking cows milk. This is a very clear memory to me. It has never disturbed me, but rather I always chuckle a bit when I recall it. I probably have such a great memory because my mom did breastfeed me until well into toddlerhood. )

This is very much the "norm" outside of the U.S., and not just in third world countries. I wouldn't exactly say the the U.S. is prudish, since they have no problem broadcasting scantily clad women on their billboards, beer commercials and magazine covers, and nobody pays any mind to that, but for some reason everybody here tries to sexualize the natural act of comfort and nourishment between mother and child and freaks out about it. Sure, TIME was going for shock value with their magazine cover... but lets face it, if the general public here in America had a proper view of breastfeeding, TIME would never have covered a story about it to begin with, because it wouldn't have sold. Shock and awe sells. So if you don't want to see magazine covers like this in the future, stop reacting to it!

Well said.

InnerFatGirl

Breastmilk does not stop being beneficial to a child at any certain point. Letting them choose when to wean is good, their bodies know when they are recieving adequate nutrition from other sources far better than some judgmental stranger. My oldest was not able to nurse, I pumped milk for her until she was 3. My son breastfeed until last summer, shortly after he turned 3. Had he needed to nurse longer, I would have let him. You find it disturbing that a child breastfeeds from their own mother, but I bet you drink Milk and consumer bodily excretions from a strange animal that you've never met.

Thank you.

InnerFatGirl

I'm fascinated by the notion I should pump and stick it in a cup when my child hits one. Why?

I stopped being able to get anything off with a pump when she was about 7 months old, but am still feeding her 8 months on.

^^^

InnerFatGirl

The kid is 3, not 4.

thanks for the correction-even at 3 years old-its disgusting. Not breast feeding itself-just at that age and the cover was just disturbing.

I agree.

oh, but its less disgusting to give your kids milk from a cow teet? hmm. intersting. or a toddler mixed formula from some big company that has killed children in 3rd world countries for greed...yup, im talking Nestle.

Umm...you are not putting the cow teet in the child's mouth are you? I'm all for breastfeeding, but if the child is old enough to drink out of a glass, then just pump and put it in a glass for them to drink.

Umm, why? Do you actually have a rational reason for this, or is it just your prejudices?

Because, for the record, breastfeeding requires suckling to work in the way its intended to. Breastfeeding isn't just about sucking a nipple, it's a specific biological mechinism.

InnerFatGirl

The kid is 3, not 4.

thanks for the correction-even at 3 years old-its disgusting. Not breast feeding itself-just at that age and the cover was just disturbing.

I agree.

oh, but its less disgusting to give your kids milk from a cow teet? hmm. intersting. or a toddler mixed formula from some big company that has killed children in 3rd world countries for greed...yup, im talking Nestle.

Umm...you are not putting the cow teet in the child's mouth are you? I'm all for breastfeeding, but if the child is old enough to drink out of a glass, then just pump and put it in a glass for them to drink.

Not the same. The mother's body responds to the child's needs. If the child is dehydrated, the milk is more watery and less fatty. If the child is going through a growth spurt, the milk is more fatty. If the child has been exposed to a virus, the milk contains antibodies for that specific virus. It goes on and on. Pumped milk is fine, but it's not as beneficial. In addition to that, many women's milk contains an excess of the enzyme lipase, which causes the milk to taste soapy after it's been exposed to the air for very long. Mine was like that, and my kids wouldn't drink it. Can't blame them!

^^

LynnWolff

Agreed!

InnerFatGirl

I can't believe that this has gotten to be such an ugly thing. This magazine cover did nothing or proved not one point. All it did was pit mothers against other mothers. No one is right and no one is wrong. If people choose NOT to breastfeed that is their decision. If they DO, that is their decision. But as a mother who didn't breastfeed any of her kids, all I ask is that some discretion is used when breastfeeding in public. I dont need my 5 year old son staring at some women with her ta-ta's hangin out. Thats all Im saying...just use a wrap or blanket of some kind. Also, forget about all the other kids seeing your "girls", what about me? i don't wanna see it either. BUT i have to say about the cover...i think when your kid can tell you " hey ma, I'm thirsty" it might be time to stop breastfeeding!

Number one, babies tell you they need food from the moment they are born. What do you think a cry is?

And some babies can ask for milk when they're about 6months old, or maybe younger. Does this mean they're not allowed to be breastfed?

Lastly, do you expect all women in low cut tops to be covered to the collarbone? I take it you never show your chest off?

This is seriously more offensive to you



than this?



We have semi naked women everywhere, yet everyone cries over a baby being fed when you rarely see anything other than a baby in front of a chest.

InnerFatGirl

Babies root from the time they're born -- they're telling you they're hungry. "If they can ask for it, they're too old" is bull****.

Also, I see a lot more skin in posts here -- or walking around *anywhere* in the summer -- than I ever see on a breastfeeding woman. This "whip it out" stereotype is crap -- very, very few women do that, and yeah, when they do, they may be trying to prove a point, or it just may be that's what works best for their baby. Have you ever tried to cover up a baby who doesn't like to be covered? Mine would pull the blanket off if I tried... but I would wear clothes that make it easy to expose as little as possible, or use the tail of my sling (babywearing FTW!) to cover my breast.

HOWEVER, I really resent the implication that unless a woman is wearing a burqa, breastfeeding is offensive. *It's how we feed babies*. It's not a peep show. If you can't tell the difference between a food breast and a sex breast (hint: the former has a baby attached to it; the latter is encased in lingerie or the like), that's your issue, not a mother's.

Your posts are perfect.

InnerFatGirl

Babies root from the time they're born -- they're telling you they're hungry. "If they can ask for it, they're too old" is bull****.

Also, I see a lot more skin in posts here -- or walking around *anywhere* in the summer -- than I ever see on a breastfeeding woman. This "whip it out" stereotype is crap -- very, very few women do that, and yeah, when they do, they may be trying to prove a point, or it just may be that's what works best for their baby. Have you ever tried to cover up a baby who doesn't like to be covered? Mine would pull the blanket off if I tried... but I would wear clothes that make it easy to expose as little as possible, or use the tail of my sling (babywearing FTW!) to cover my breast.

HOWEVER, I really resent the implication that unless a woman is wearing a burqa, breastfeeding is offensive. *It's how we feed babies*. It's not a peep show. If you can't tell the difference between a food breast and a sex breast (hint: the former has a baby attached to it; the latter is encased in lingerie or the like), that's your issue, not a mother's.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Mothers pitted against mothers. People don't want to hear other peoples opinions and get all defensive when it's not the same as their own. "If they can ask for it, theyre too old" I think it completely right. I'm sorry but when your kid is walking around, making full freakin sentences, and eating table food and are more than capable of drinking from a cup, i think its time to stop. I'm sorry but it's disgusting. I'm all for breastfeeding infants, babies, maybe even a toddler..but when your kid is ready for school, thats just sick. And yes, you're right that if you can't tell the difference between sexual or feeding purpose that is the mothers problem. Try explaining that to a little boy at age 4. Everyone wants to talk about how breastfeeding mothers get all types of criticism. Well what about what BF mothers do to NON BF moms. We're looked at as not as good of a mother, or bad b/c we're giving them formula and mother nature intended them to drink their mothers milk. News flash for people, formula is made WAY different than it was before and it very comparible to breast milk now a days. Yes, it will never be as good but it's pretty damn close. If people choose NOT to BF we shouldnt be hounded for it. BF moms don't like it when they are looked at negatively, so don't do it to mothers who choose not to breastfeed. I dont care what anyone says, no ones kid is gonna be smarter than mine, thinner, or more successful just because they were breast fed and my kid wasnt. That's just dumb.

Sigh.

InnerFatGirl

My personal opinion... so don't attack me for it. I think breast feeding is great, wonderful, and an amazing thing that is absolutely the best nutrition for a baby. However, I also think that once a child gets teeth, it's time for them to stop sucking from the teat. If you still want to pump and give them breast milk in a bottle or a cup, I think that would be fine and much more appropriate.

If a child can walk, talk, and pour their own juice, they're definitely too old to be doing it, imo.

Babies can have teeth from birth, or they can sprout early.

Walking, talking and being able to pour doesn't mean they stop getting the benefits of breastfeeding.

InnerFatGirl

My personal opinion... so don't attack me for it. I think breast feeding is great, wonderful, and an amazing thing that is absolutely the best nutrition for a baby. However, I also think that once a child gets teeth, it's time for them to stop sucking from the teat. If you still want to pump and give them breast milk in a bottle or a cup, I think that would be fine and much more appropriate.

Some babies are BORN with teeth. I guess they have to go straight to solids and a sippy cup and never nurse?

I've never heard of that. You can't possibly hold it against me simply because I didn't know that. Obviously, that's not what I was implying. Most children are supposed to start eating solid foods or semi-solid foods when they begin getting their teeth in, which for my son was about 6 months old.

And why is this?

Also, I doubt anyone who practises extended nursing just exclusively nurses. It's just another beverage. It's common sense.

abetterjune

I personally find it disgusting-what are your thoughts?

In most countries children are breastfed until they wean themselves...usually around ages 3-4. This is not unusual or even discussed in those countries....it is just way of life. In American, breasts are not seen as life-giving, nutrient providers...they are seen as sexual objects. I don't fault you for your opinion. You are just a product of your society.

This!! 100% this!!!! The whole reason mammals have breasts is to suckle their young. A human child's immune system doesn't even fully develop until around 7, so at ages 3 and 4 the child is still receiving benefits from breast milk. There's absolutely nothing "disgusting" about it - it's one of the most natural things a woman can do.

Nice to see a man so supportive of BF!

I had planned to BF until my son was 3 or 4 but he weaned himself around 2 and I took his lead.

abetterjune

Babies root from the time they're born -- they're telling you they're hungry. "If they can ask for it, they're too old" is bull****.

Also, I see a lot more skin in posts here -- or walking around *anywhere* in the summer -- than I ever see on a breastfeeding woman. This "whip it out" stereotype is crap -- very, very few women do that, and yeah, when they do, they may be trying to prove a point, or it just may be that's what works best for their baby. Have you ever tried to cover up a baby who doesn't like to be covered? Mine would pull the blanket off if I tried... but I would wear clothes that make it easy to expose as little as possible, or use the tail of my sling (babywearing FTW!) to cover my breast.

HOWEVER, I really resent the implication that unless a woman is wearing a burqa, breastfeeding is offensive. *It's how we feed babies*. It's not a peep show. If you can't tell the difference between a food breast and a sex breast (hint: the former has a baby attached to it; the latter is encased in lingerie or the like), that's your issue, not a mother's.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Mothers pitted against mothers. People don't want to hear other peoples opinions and get all defensive when it's not the same as their own. "If they can ask for it, theyre too old" I think it completely right. I'm sorry but when your kid is walking around, making full freakin sentences, and eating table food and are more than capable of drinking from a cup, i think its time to stop. I'm sorry but it's disgusting. I'm all for breastfeeding infants, babies, maybe even a toddler..but when your kid is ready for school, thats just sick. And yes, you're right that if you can't tell the difference between sexual or feeding purpose that is the mothers problem. Try explaining that to a little boy at age 4. Everyone wants to talk about how breastfeeding mothers get all types of criticism. Well what about what BF mothers do to NON BF moms. We're looked at as not as good of a mother, or bad b/c we're giving them formula and mother nature intended them to drink their mothers milk. News flash for people, formula is made WAY different than it was before and it very comparible to breast milk now a days. Yes, it will never be as good but it's pretty damn close. If people choose NOT to BF we shouldnt be hounded for it. BF moms don't like it when they are looked at negatively, so don't do it to mothers who choose not to breastfeed. I dont care what anyone says, no ones kid is gonna be smarter than mine, thinner, or more successful just because they were breast fed and my kid wasnt. That's just dumb.

My best friend has 3 children. She BF her first until she was 2.5, her second until he was 1.5 (when she had another and didn't want to tandem nurse) but with her third, at 5 months old, she switched to formula. She wholly supports BF, as do I, but for some babies and some mothers formula is what is best in certain situations.

She made this decision with so much guilt even though she knew because of her sons medical issues and health problems it would be best. I will always BF if possible, but I don't hold it against mothers who can't or it's not compatible or they have to work/ can't pump. I DO hold it against mothers who choose not to BF because they are worried about "ruining" their breasts. Are the health benefits for your child not as important as your looks?

osualex

I'm not a mom, so I really don't know that much about breastfeeding, but all of my mom-friends did it for only about a year. The way they talked about it, breastfeeding was no walk in the park, so I guess I don't really understand why someone would breastfeed for so long if it wasn't medically necessary.

I think it's a bit...strange in the fact that the kid is not only three, but a BIG 3 year old. It's not really the breastfeeding, it's that this kid is a KID and not a baby or toddler, who NEED breast milk. I'd think it was strange as well if I saw a three year old with a pacifier or bottle, or in diapers...they do need to make the transition from toddlerhood to childhood. I was in school (not day care) when I was 3, and I didn't have "baby" things like pacifiers, bottles or diapers, either at school or at home.

Do I think the cover was gross/disgusting/anything like that? No, it was poorly and inappropriately posed, but if she wants to breastfeed the kid til he's in college then that is her decision. If the cover was of her sitting comfortably, breastfeeding a one year old, I'd feel a lot differently about it.

Marla64

rolling this blasted thing to hopefully end the madness.

Totally love all the support for breastfeeding here-- you ladies (and gents) have a clue. Way impressed.

However, the ignorance abounds.....it is what it is.

Can we be done discussing this now???

Please?

Pretty please?

Kirk out.

muddyventures

I'm against Time Magazine for pitting mothers against each other. And doing it on Mother's Day.

I would agree they certainly could have timed this a little differently. I breastfed all mine to 1 ish, and agree with 'to each their own'. Every family is different, after having my own children I found out quikcly that I could not even meet my own 'way to high' standards of parenting, and was 'forced' into be more gracious in my judgment of others lol.