What Dog Owners Do...

Polly758

I have neighbors who have pitbulls and chihuahuas. The pitbulls are for making them feel manly, the chichis are for dressing up and letting the kids terrorize. Both of course are fair game for kicking, tying up with no water on hot days, and feeding nothing but leftovers. The dogs regularly escape their yards (because they don't close the gates or because there are gaps) until one of my housemates screams at the owners. The result being all the neighbors hate my housemate... but their dogs don't get out anymore! F*ckers.

None of the dogs gets fixed, none of them have vaccinations.

It's sad and scary.

And I have interacted with some very sweet pitbulls. However I was under the impression that they have been exclusively bred for fighting and for biting down and never letting go. I thought that was the issue with pitbulls. Is this untrue? It's nothing personal, I don't want all of them put down or anything. I just think they ought to all be fixed and never bred. God knows there's enough in the shelters.

mrmanmeat

For gods sake people, there is nothing wrong w/ those types of collars if they're done/used correctly.

PANZERIA

THAT DRIVES ME CRAZY!!!

I am a dog trainer and I have been working with and rehabilitating dogs for several years now. I have rehabilitated and re-homed a number of dogs, so it really drives me nuts when I get stupid questions from clients who don't do their research BEFORE taking home that adorable little puppy in the window.

I can understand your frustration... but wouldn't you be out of a JOB if everybody did their research and were 100% au fait with the methodology and practice.

It is true that some folks just shouldn't be responsible for any animal because they are totally irresponsible, but I've been around animals all my life and still sometimes there are things I wonder about.

But others are well-meaning and want to love and care for another animal, be it a dog, a cat, a hamster or a goldfish. They might have done a little research, but that's why they then come to experts for advice.

And like MFP... there's advice and there's advice and not everyone sings for the same hymn sheet, but they all believe their way is best!

I would LOVE it if I were out of a job and everyone were training their dogs properly. LOVE IT!!!!!!!! (and I'm not even joking)

At the same time, if everyone did that, I would constantly be doing obedience classes, so my job is safe. =D All is well.

I'm not saying that all animal owners are idiots, just the rare gems.

Susabelle64

I have neighbors who have pitbulls and chihuahuas. The pitbulls are for making them feel manly, the chichis are for dressing up and letting the kids terrorize. Both of course are fair game for kicking, tying up with no water on hot days, and feeding nothing but leftovers. The dogs regularly escape their yards (because they don't close the gates or because there are gaps) until one of my housemates screams at the owners. The result being all the neighbors hate my housemate... but their dogs don't get out anymore! F*ckers.

None of the dogs gets fixed, none of them have vaccinations.

It's sad and scary.

And I have interacted with some very sweet pitbulls. However I was under the impression that they have been exclusively bred for fighting and for biting down and never letting go. I thought that was the issue with pitbulls. Is this untrue? It's nothing personal, I don't want all of them put down or anything. I just think they ought to all be fixed and never bred. God knows there's enough in the shelters.

Sounds like my old neighbors moved in next to you......so sorry...

dvisser1

Those poky/spikey collars piss me off.

I am a firm believer that the stigma with pits is BS. It's all in how you raise them. Mine is the equivalent of scooby doo. A big dumb cuddely loveable bear!

They shouldn't piss you off. They're meant for bigger dogs (and mine being a Rotti has a VERY high pain tolerance) they're not meant to abuse, they're meant to discipline.

And yes, the stigma about pits is stupid. Every single one I've met has been a freaking sweetheart.

I've got a 2 year old black lab - pit mix that I got from a rescue shelter a year ago. He's big (83 lbs and kind of lean), powerful, playful, extremely smart and the friendliest monster dog I've ever come across.

Adopting and training an adult dog means you need the patience for the dog to un-learn whatever bad habits they have, but they can be trained. Dogs want to be good and obedient to a master they respect and love. All you have to do is respect them, love them, be consistent with how AND WHY you discipline them, and never abuse them.

not sure if this picture will work, but how could you hate this guy just cause he's got some pit bull in him?

PANZERIA

I have a Roxie-Dog....she's a lab/shepard mix rescue that is amazing with my kids. She walks well on a leash and doesn't usually pull. She will sit, stay, catch frisbees, tennis balls, etc...she comes when called.

But the barking. OH>>>>>the BARKING!! We have walked her until she's tired. We have trained and trained and trained. But she doesn't stop barking. She barks at cars going by. She barks at nothing. She barks at people jogging. She barks at squirrels. Last summer we had contractors fixing our house and we had to break down and get a citronella spray bark collar. It seemed less cruel than the shock ones. But she literally barked for 12 hours straight one day and I knew she was driving the contractors insane. he eventually figured out that the collar beeps a warning, so she barks until she hears the beep and then pauses long enough to let it reset. Rinse and repeat. She's VERY smart....

What can you do for barking? It's the one thing I can't seem to train out of her.

There are a few things. Sounds to me like this has become an 'obsession.' Barking is a natural thing for a dog, so having her bark once in a while isn't uncommon, but going for 12 hours straight is definitely obsessive.

If she's food motivated (will do ANYTHING for food - try cooked hot dogs), cook some up, cut them up, and keep them in a ziplock bag in your pocket. She'll smell them. Get her to sit and treat two or three times, and she'll focus on you. After that, just go about your normal business and ignore her.

When she barks, pull the treats out and redirect her attention. Have her sit again and wait until she's calm (not snapping her head between you and the sound). If she's not snapping out of it, you'll have to resort to the leash and a favorite toy. If she does, at first, reward her for simply focusing on you. Let her bark two or three times (it's a normal alert-thing), which will give you enough time to get the treat out of your pocket. Reward her for coming to you instead of barking at the window. Eventually, you can switch to praise.

If treats don't catch her attention (and hot dogs are damn good too!) then you'll have to walk with her on leash in your house for a few days. Everytime she starts to bark, give a quick tug on the leash to snap her out of it and redirect with a toy or a treat.

Also, and this goes for everyone who owns a dog, reward her for being calm when she is simply laying down and napping. You want that kind of calm behavior all the time, so reward it when she does it on her own. Eventually, she won't be worked up to the point where she needs to bark so much.

Trail_Addict

Having personally trained nearly 2000 dogs in the last 15 years, I've got enough stories to fill volumes.

- Some people love their dogs more than their kids.
- Just because you managed to raise a couple dogs (or kids) without killing them, doesn't make you an expert in the world of 'behavior'.
- Just like in fitness/ nutrition, you can point at the tragic results of a person's efforts, and they will still argue with you about your ideas to fix the problem. (If you knew the solutions, why did you ask for help?)
- Most clients think all dogs are created equal, and should all be trained as fast or to the same level as someone else's dog.
- There is no ONE way to train an animal.
- TV trainers are dangerous to the public. The audience is only getting an 'edited' portion of the situation, and many viewers take the filtered portions as the entire truth (like a certain Whisperer who hid his e-collar methods in the early seasons). This can send the DIYers down a dangerous path.

In the end, I'd rather work with dogs than people, and I try not to give my clients much grief for being untrained; they keep me employed. :happy:

steph124ny

I have a Roxie-Dog....she's a lab/shepard mix rescue that is amazing with my kids. She walks well on a leash and doesn't usually pull. She will sit, stay, catch frisbees, tennis balls, etc...she comes when called.

But the barking. OH>>>>>the BARKING!! We have walked her until she's tired. We have trained and trained and trained. But she doesn't stop barking. She barks at cars going by. She barks at nothing. She barks at people jogging. She barks at squirrels. Last summer we had contractors fixing our house and we had to break down and get a citronella spray bark collar. It seemed less cruel than the shock ones. But she literally barked for 12 hours straight one day and I knew she was driving the contractors insane. he eventually figured out that the collar beeps a warning, so she barks until she hears the beep and then pauses long enough to let it reset. Rinse and repeat. She's VERY smart....

What can you do for barking? It's the one thing I can't seem to train out of her.

What's she barking at?

squire bottle works (with water) and is fun.

She barks at anything that moves. Or nothing at all. Maybe she hears voices or something....I don't know...but she drives me NUTS!

steph124ny

Thank you! I'm going to give it a shot. She's an awesome dog otherwise.

kathymillard1970

We bought our German shepherd when she was 6 weeks old. We started house training the day we got her took only 3 days. We have trained her to not pull when on her lease by stopping and not moving until she calmed down, she no longer pulls, she is a little over protective, but I understand that's what German Shepherds do. She is very well behaved and very loved, you need to train them how to behave just as you would a child, you don't train or discipline a child, or a dog they will get outta control. And by discipline I do not mean hitting them, we never once hit our Bella and she is a wonderful dog.

cks3d1

What works for one might not work for the next... obviously this is a hot topic and getting a lot of responses. For me, this topic is pretty annoying and I feel it needs a response.

Like another member stated, you're a dog trainer, what questions do you expect them to ask?
When taking on a new puppy there are a lot of challenges. Doing research, you arent going to be able to get all of the answers. Is every dog the same? with the same behaviors? NO!
No amount of research is going to prepare you for the individual personality of each animal.

If I were a client of yours, I wouldnt be coming back. You may be frustrated, but that's the profession you chose.

Our dog trainer/ pet sitter is wonderful and always forthcoming with information. Never do I feel like i'm a burden to her with my questions, she seems happy to answer and always goes way beyond with her answers. People that use these types of services are paying good money to help them build a relationship with their dog.

I've had adult dogs my whole life, and last August got a puppy for the first time. I did plenty of research and still do almost weekly when something else comes up that I haven't experienced with him, but I always confirm that research with asking either a VET or our Dog Sitter/Trainer.

Shame on you.

PANZERIA

Having personally trained nearly 2000 dogs in the last 15 years, I've got enough stories to fill volumes.

- Some people love their dogs more than their kids.
- Just because you managed to raise a couple dogs (or kids) without killing them, doesn't make you an expert in the world of 'behavior'.
- Just like in fitness/ nutrition, you can point at the tragic results of a person's efforts, and they will still argue with you about your ideas to fix the problem. (If you knew the solutions, why did you ask for help?)
- Most clients think all dogs are created equal, and should all be trained as fast or to the same level as someone else's dog.
- There is no ONE way to train an animal.
- TV trainers are dangerous to the public. The audience is only getting an 'edited' portion of the situation, and many viewers take the filtered portions as the entire truth (like a certain Whisperer who hid his e-collar methods in the early seasons). This can send the DIYers down a dangerous path.

In the end, I'd rather work with dogs than people, and I try not to give my clients much grief for being untrained; they keep me employed. :happy:

Lol! Agreed with all of the above! It's kind of sad, actually. I feel more comfortable around dogs than humans. The dogs will always tell you exactly what's going on whereas the humans won't.

I agree TV trainers can really hurt a dog if the owner is a DIY'er and doesn't have the background information on breed, age, and illnesses, but at the same time, at least they show that dogs HAVE to be trained and, even if it is edited, at the end of the show, the viewers are shown what a dog should be. However, when it comes down to the apparent world-wide lack of trained dogs and knowledgeable owners, at least the DIY'ers are trying to increase their abilities THROUGH acquiring more knowledge. If the TV trainers can pass on at least a bit of that knowledge, then we end up with some DIY'ers who know a few things, instead of nothing.

SuffolkSally

I guess I've just never seen anyone use the prong collars in the right way then.

I've also seen animal cops one too many times and how badly they can hurt the dog if not used right.

All you're supposed to do is a very quick, very light tug on the leash. Nothing with strength or anything that would lift the dog. It's a super quick movement.

Yuck. Never. There are other ways. In the UK I would seriously consider reporting anyone I saw with one of these on their dog - but I never ever have. Perhaps they are illegal here?

Certainly it would be considered abusive and the owner would be challenged by the general public, so perhaps that puts people off.

Who said that "rotties have a high pain threshold" and that's the only way to manage? it's a disgusting comment. Try one on your own neck and see how it feels (Victoria Stilwell actually made some owners do this on her US version of her TV programme, and it cured them...) Well like OP said, do your research and get a nice little chihuahua that you can be a good owner to without cruelty. Or a cat. Or a budgie.

Actually, it really depends on the dog. Some dogs can handle the choke collar, some can't. If it works for her and both her and the dog are comfortable with it, it's really not a problem.

She uses what's called 'negative reinforcement.' If her dog responds to it, then that's what works for her. All three of my dogs use different training methods, anywhere from positive reinforcement training, to negative reinforcement training.

If she's using the pinch collar responsibly, then it's a good tool to use. She's also got her dog in level 3 obedience, so I think they're pretty good in terms of figuring out what works for them and the dog.

You can use a different method, absolutely, but a properly used choke collar isn't abuse. Just a tool.

Also, humans have a very low threshold of pain on our necks. We're pretty much wusses if we were to compare ourselves to a dog. Dogs nip each other to correct, and using a choke collar is the exact same thing. You wouldn't call a dog nipping another dog who is doing improper behavior 'animal abuse.' If the dog was attacking the other dog, it would be a different story, but a quick nip is just a correction to snap the dog out of whatever mindset they were in before.

People who drag the dog off the ground when they correct and, or, don't correct properly, however, are definitely abusing. There's a fine line, but she's doing it correctly.

Yes I agree that the analogy between human and dog neck is overdone - Victoria Stilwell does it to make a point about using positive reinforcement methods rather than negative ones. Choke chains are still seen in the UK but rarely - more people use harnesses and "gentle leaders".

However you misread - I'm not referring to pinch or or choke collars, but to prong collars.

I can't see how anyone can justify use of a prong collar - it doesn't even have any natural meaning to a dog as a quick nip from another dog would do as the owner is at the other end of the lead not connecting with the dog in the way another pack member would do.

I'm not exactly calling it dog abuse myself, I'm just saying that's how it would be regarded in the UK (honestly). And it is truly rubbish about rotties having a "high pain threshold" and I think that's a crap thing to say. Unless US rotties are very different to UK rotties, of course, LOL.

I have always had rescued dogs myself - the latest is a Spanish Podenco and she certainly has a few issues we are making slow and steady progress on...ish.. LOL... one of them's pulling; but if anyone came near her with a prong collar I'd nut them one.

Susabelle64

And I have interacted with some very sweet pitbulls. However I was under the impression that they have been exclusively bred for fighting and for biting down and never letting go. I thought that was the issue with pitbulls. Is this untrue? It's nothing personal, I don't want all of them put down or anything. I just think they ought to all be fixed and never bred. God knows there's enough in the shelters.

Actually, they were bred to hold livestock and are more likely to show aggression to other animals than humans. This is actually what makes them the ideal pit fighting dog because people are less likely to be attacked by these dogs. Seriously, the pit has gotten a bad rap, and because of it the most undesirable of owners go after them to increase their Machismo or what ever... So sad, I actually love most pits I've met, very loving, but if you chain an abuse any dog, you can turn it into an awful creature.

Grimmerick

I was one of those that never did much research and went out and picked up a pound puppy. She is great and I have given her a good and loving home. She has survived and thrived 3 years without training besides sit, and stay which common sense can train. However, to make it easier for dog and owner training is definitely necessary. So now we are training with a dog behaviorist to help her become more socialized. She has always been very friendly just spazzy at first. If I did my research first I probably wouldn't have gotten a dog at all. So I am glad I didn't do much research. Now it is about my girl and tweaking her to be comfortable in any situation. after a while of having her I realize at some point training is necessary. But If i had done my research she might already be dead in the kill shelter I got her from. Sometimes being a little untrained is better than being dead. She always has the chance to be trained............but not if she is dead.

Trail_Addict

Try being a horse trainer! I love my clients! I love educating people, but the questions that you get from people that just got their first horse and did no research make me tremble. I find when you get horrible questions, if you nicely let them know your hourly rate and that you have availability next week, you either get a new client or you don't get anymore horrible questions. But I feel your pain. I also think as trainers we have a duty to stress the importance of education and trainning.

Yep, we definitely do.

I find when I do the one-on-one sessions, I can get my point across. The most infuriating people are the ones who say "...But my friends told me this!" "...Are your friends dog trainers?" "No. But they have a dog." "...Okay..."

Usual working-with-people stuff, I suppose, but hey, if we can make the life better for the animal, that's what it's all about right?

I don't know if I could work with horses...dogs, even the big ones, are still small enough for me to control (plus I know what I'm doing, lol, so I suppose that helps). I'm always intimidated by a horses' size...and the power of those legs. I have a healthy respect for horses, that's for sure! Lol.

I've had several horse trainers AND child psychologists bring their dogs to me. It cracks me up how they never saw the parallel in many of the behavioral concepts. Once the lights come on, we can really get into some fairly deep discussions, and the progress is usually rapid and impressive with their dogs.

PANZERIA

What works for one might not work for the next... obviously this is a hot topic and getting a lot of responses. For me, this topic is pretty annoying and I feel it needs a response.

Like another member stated, you're a dog trainer, what questions do you expect them to ask?
When taking on a new puppy there are a lot of challenges. Doing research, you arent going to be able to get all of the answers. Is every dog the same? with the same behaviors? NO!
No amount of research is going to prepare you for the individual personality of each animal.

If I were a client of yours, I wouldnt be coming back. You may be frustrated, but that's the profession you chose.

Our dog trainer/ pet sitter is wonderful and always forthcoming with information. Never do I feel like i'm a burden to her with my questions, she seems happy to answer and always goes way beyond with her answers. People that use these types of services are paying good money to help them build a relationship with their dog.

I've had adult dogs my whole life, and last August got a puppy for the first time. I did plenty of research and still do almost weekly when something else comes up that I haven't experienced with him, but I always confirm that research with asking either a VET or our Dog Sitter/Trainer.

Shame on you.

Ooookay...first, not a hot topic. Everyone has been quite respectful and good about asking questions, giving their opinions, etc. Obviously you didn't read the responses I have given to several other people who have told me I am now a terrible person for venting a little bit.

I'm not talking about responsible dog owners who ask for my help, with which I am more than willing to give them said help and advice. I'm talking about the people who ask for my help, then tell me I'm wrong, and who argue with me even though their little dog is a terror. I also have to deal with people screaming at me when I have to remove/assess a dog with the police (which I have had to do on several occasions). Usually, I deal with pit bulls and rottweilers and these people are yelling at me "Just shoot it!"

Also, I have on more than one occasion, had someone tell me "I want a pit bull because I want something to protect my family" or "I want a chihuahua or a ****-zu so I can dress it up and carry it in a purse!" They say this because they have done NO research on the breed - for example, pit bulls are one of the WORST dogs in terms of 'guard dog' behavior because they are inherently happy-go-lucky and love people. They want a particular breed of dog for a certain reason, without doing any research into: is this dog good with children? How much energy is in this breed? If this dog is a herding/hunting breed, how am I going to fulfill that need? If the person has children, do they actually have time for a puppy, or should they get an older dog who already has the basic training? Do they buy from a breeder, or go to the humane society? Etc.

Think what you like. You've got your opinion, I've got my experience with training about one thousand animals both in-home and in shelters, and it's a free country.

PANZERIA

Try being a horse trainer! I love my clients! I love educating people, but the questions that you get from people that just got their first horse and did no research make me tremble. I find when you get horrible questions, if you nicely let them know your hourly rate and that you have availability next week, you either get a new client or you don't get anymore horrible questions. But I feel your pain. I also think as trainers we have a duty to stress the importance of education and trainning.

Yep, we definitely do.

I find when I do the one-on-one sessions, I can get my point across. The most infuriating people are the ones who say "...But my friends told me this!" "...Are your friends dog trainers?" "No. But they have a dog." "...Okay..."

Usual working-with-people stuff, I suppose, but hey, if we can make the life better for the animal, that's what it's all about right?

I don't know if I could work with horses...dogs, even the big ones, are still small enough for me to control (plus I know what I'm doing, lol, so I suppose that helps). I'm always intimidated by a horses' size...and the power of those legs. I have a healthy respect for horses, that's for sure! Lol.

I've had several horse trainers AND child psychologists bring their dogs to me. It cracks me up how they never saw the parallel in many of the behavioral concepts. Once the lights come on, we can really get into some fairly deep discussions, and the progress is usually rapid and impressive with their dogs.

I LOVE it when you can see that 'click' go off in an owner's head! =D Best. Feeling. EVER!

sam363

We have our Rotti pup in his third level of training now. Prong collars do help, but there are certain ways in which to use them. Obviously you're aware of that, but most people just think "Yes, it's on he can pull as much as wants, he'll learn." It sooo doesn't work that way.

I LOVE having a pronged collar for my coon hound! She wears in for our walks/runs and doesn't pull when it is on. I took her to obedience school when I learned I was pregnant 5+ years ago and the trainer suggested using it over a choke collar because I wasn't strong enough to use the choke collar properly and would end up choking my dog the whole time we walked.

Classes were completely worth it. She's better behaved and I'm better at knowing how/when to discipline her when needed.

Small dog owners - It is not cute when your dog is running up to my big dog! She's doesn't like your dog and is not allowed to socialize when we are on a run! Keep your dog leashed and by your side. I give you & your pet that respect please give it back to me.

hbrittingham

I guess I've just never seen anyone use the prong collars in the right way then.

I've also seen animal cops one too many times and how badly they can hurt the dog if not used right.

All you're supposed to do is a very quick, very light tug on the leash. Nothing with strength or anything that would lift the dog. It's a super quick movement.

Yuck. Never. There are other ways. In the UK I would seriously consider reporting anyone I saw with one of these on their dog - but I never ever have. Perhaps they are illegal here?

Certainly it would be considered abusive and the owner would be challenged by the general public, so perhaps that puts people off.

Who said that "rotties have a high pain threshold" and that's the only way to manage? it's a disgusting comment. Try one on your own neck and see how it feels (Victoria Stilwell actually made some owners do this on her US version of her TV programme, and it cured them...) Well like OP said, do your research and get a nice little chihuahua that you can be a good owner to without cruelty. Or a cat. Or a budgie.

Actually, it really depends on the dog. Some dogs can handle the choke collar, some can't. If it works for her and both her and the dog are comfortable with it, it's really not a problem.

She uses what's called 'negative reinforcement.' If her dog responds to it, then that's what works for her. All three of my dogs use different training methods, anywhere from positive reinforcement training, to negative reinforcement training.

If she's using the pinch collar responsibly, then it's a good tool to use. She's also got her dog in level 3 obedience, so I think they're pretty good in terms of figuring out what works for them and the dog.

Actually, she is using positive punishment, not negative reinforcement. Negative reinforcement is removing something bad when the desired behavior is performed. If she were letting the collar make the correction, then that would be negative reinforcement. The fact that she does a yank, pull, "correction" when the dog misbehaves makes it positive punishment.

I am also a dog trainer and I keep dogs in my home to train them for the owners. These owners obviously care enough about their dogs to spend the money to do this in-home training. They may have screwed up in the past with their dogs, but they want them to be a part of their families and are putting the effort into finding a trainer to help them. Many of them are extremely busy with work and kids and just plain don't have the spare time to take their dogs to classes.

I do follow ups, I offer them deeply discounted boarding if they have to travel and work with their dogs while they are here. I don't judge them for not knowing everything. Heck, I am more than willing to admit that I learn something new every day and understand that not all dogs are the same. I'm not perfect and I don't expect anyone else to be so.