It's NOT Just Calories In VS Calories Out!!!

Rocbola

OP specified and conceded the calories in/ out as the equation but was also advocating for quality of calories, as well as fighting the hunger, and, but correlation, long term success.

The only healthy way, IMHO, to lose and maintain is to retrain. I believe the OP was advocating for the retraining on how and what to eat in an effort to make long term weight loss successful.

Thank you. It's amazing how many people chime in without actually reading what has been written.

TurnLeftNow

As far as losing weight goes... it really is just calories in vs calories out, because you can't lose weight with a calorie surplus. You can have reactions to a bunch of different things but if you are eating more than you are burning, you aren't going to lose weight. So in a sense it really is only calories in vs calories out.

HOWEVER if we are talking about health, there is much more involved. Sure you can lose weight eating nothing by twinkies but you won't be that healthy and you wouldn't have learned a healthy lifestyle.

The end

tnqnt

OP specified and conceded the calories in/ out as the equation but was also advocating for quality of calories, as well as fighting the hunger, and, but correlation, long term success.

The only healthy way, IMHO, to lose and maintain is to retrain. I believe the OP was advocating for the retraining on how and what to eat in an effort to make long term weight loss successful.

Thank you. It's amazing how many people chime in without actually reading what has been written.

I think if folks re-read they will see what you are saying.
I honestly read it as the following: You were not discrediting calories in/out... rather, you were giving ideas and warnings of things that affect long term success. There are many studies which support what you say. As with anything in this world, there are studies on both sides of things and people will go with their gut. Politics, anyone??? KIDDING lol

wackyfunster

What has NEVER been demonstrated is someone eating at a substantial deficit and failing to lose body mass.

So a staller is accumulating water at a rate that equals the loss rate of fat / non-fat body mass ?

Is there a limit to this, for example there are women over 200 lbs failing to lose weight - what would be an upper limit on how much extra water could be retained before something had to happen.

I've had friends who have dropped 10+ pounds of water weight in a day when going from very high weights, so it's pretty substantial. If someone is going months without change though, chances are their net caloric intake is excessive, either due to miscalculating intake, overestimating exercise burn, or a combination of the two. People can't magically pull energy from the ether, and the Minnesota starvation study fairly conclusively demonstrated that when eating at a substantial deficit, metabolic adaptation never accounts for more than a fraction of caloric reduction. From what I have read from some of the prolonged 0 calorie diets that morbidly obese individuals have been on, caloric downregulation caps out at around 40%, even on a sustained 0 calorie diet. For people restricted ~40%, a 10% downregulation seems typical. Basically, it is not nearly as substantial as most people on this forum seem to think. I have 3 friends who have lost ~120-150 pounds in a year on 1200 or fewer calories/day (2 of them were at 600-800). I will probably have a fourth by the end of the year. They are all SO much healthier at this point (i.e. not "you are going to be dead within a few years")... that's part of why a lot of the starvation mode people upset me so much, for some people, under doctor's supervision, a very low calorie diet is medically advisable.

Edit: As an addendum, water weight is trickier with women due to a high level of variance based upon hormonal factors. I think most women are better off getting a body fat meter and measuring tape, and using those to determine progress, and only use the scale as a secondary measure.

miracle4me

I see people all the time say that weight loss is just as simple as "calories in/calories out" but, that is a serious oversimplification!!!! I want to share what i have learned about the OTHER FACTORS involved so others don't make the same mistakes i have made in the past. There are a variety of factors involved with why we all became overweight, and stayed that way, despite great efforts.

Factor 1: STRESS
Stress releases stress hormones within our bodies that not only make us desire more food, they make our bodies go into a storage state. Google "Cortisol"

Factor 2: HYDRATION
Most of us don't drink enough water. In addition, most of the man-made foods we eat have low water content, compared with the foods we would eat in nature. This makes our water requirements even greater. Water is necessary for almost every function of the body, including flushing out toxins from cells. You should be peeing clear.

Factor 3: UN-NATURALLY CONCENTRATED FOODS
Most man-made foods that we eat have a high concentration of calories, without much or any fiber or water. They don't fill up our stomachs, but they do provide us with a lot of calories. They are also stripped of most mirco nutrients. It is very easy to eat too many calories without our bodies telling us to stop eating. As Doug Lisle says, "Our mechanisms of satiation are being fooled". Even when we have had ENOUGH calories, we desire MORE because our stomachs aren't full.
Google "Dr. Doug Lisle, Pleasure Trap"

Factor 3: UNDERNOURISHMENT
ALL processed food has been stripped of at least some of it's nutrients. ALL cooked food has had at least some of it's nutrients destroyed. Most of the minerals that are found in normal plants are not replaced in the soil each year, so most commercial produce is deficient in proper minerals. Plus, once a plant is picked, the nutrients start degrading. By the time we pick it up on the grocery store shelf, it's already at least a week old. All of these factors combined mean that we are not getting enough nutrients. Despite getting more than enough MACRO-NUTRIENTS (calories), we are not getting enough MICRO-NUTRIENTS (vitamins, minerals, phytochemicals, etc). When we don't get the micro nutrients we need, we are starving internally, and the hunger signal remains strong, so we continue to eat. Unfortunately, most people continue to eat foods that have high calories, and low micro nutrients, further exacerbating the problem.

FACTOR 4: TOXICITY/FOOD CHEMICALS
Most of the food that we eat contains preservatives, artificial flavorings, artificial colorings, etc. The body is not made to process this stuff. The body sees these chemicals as irritants, and acts to remove them from the blood stream. It either creates mucus to flush them out, or stores them in fat cells. When the body takes on these chemicals in the fat, they alter the body's ability to utilize the fat stored in the cell properly. This is very over-simplified. Research this topic. Seriously.
Google "Dr. Joel Fuhrman: Toxic Hunger"
Google "Jon Gabriel Method"

Factor 5: MSG
Several of the food chemicals in most of today's food make you want to continue eating, even when you are full.

Factor 6: ADDICTION
Many of the additives and processed foods today are physically addicting. Don't believe that big food companies would stoop to that level? Why not, the tobacco did it too. Think you are an "over eater"? Ever wonder why you can't seem to control yourself when food is concerned? Ever tell yourself, "I'll just have one" and then have more? ADDICTION.

YES, calories in, vs calories out is a big factor, but there are many other things to consider. You need high quality calories or you will be fighting with your hunger drive all the time.

High quality calories? You've heard it before. High quality calories come from:
High water content, high nutrient content, high fiber content, natural, unprocessed, local, fresh, organic, plant based foods. Yes, i'm talking about fruits and vegetables.

This
WOW this is so true Thank You for posting this I am saving to my hard drive to remember. I have kicked the sugar addiction or so I thought until I find it in places I never dream of like my favorite shore lunch fish batter. Sugar increases my appetite and being hypoglycemic sets me up for a hard fall.

MamaMia07

WELL SAID!!!!! AND AGREE WITH THE SLEEP! NUMB 1 FACTOR AS WELL

BrianSharpe

I'm sorry "Rocbloa" but for weight loss or weight gain even, it is as simple as calories in, calories out, period.

That was helpful. I'm glad you could share your insights and show everybody exactly what kind of person you are. Are your parents proud of you? This is a forum for helping people lose weight. Some people bring intelligent, productive things to the conversation. For those not smart enough to come up with honest, insightful, and intelligent things to say, please go bounce a ball somewhere.

WOW! Someone's a little pissy aren't they. I'm sorry that you don't like it but that's the way it is. Eat over your BMR, gain weight. Eat under it, lose weight. I don't see how you can argue with that. Now body composition is something different entirely, but the very first sentence of your original post said "it's not jsut calories in vs. calories out for weight loss" and for strictly weight loss yes it is!

Oh and by the way, yes, my parent's are very proud of me, thanks for asking! :drinker:

I didn't change your name to something childish because i disagreed with you. This is a forum for people helping people, and i put myself out there to help. It's ok to respectfully disagree. Would you call me "rocbloa" if we were having a conversation in a different setting? If you are not here to help, and only here to act childish, then what kind of a man are you? Do your parents know who you really are? And from the picture, it looks like you are an adult!?!? Pathetic.

Has it occurred to you that it may have been a simple typo? You seem awfully quick to take offense when it's possible none was intended......and your retort is hardly mature either.

Rocbola

I'm sorry "Rocbloa" but for weight loss or weight gain even, it is as simple as calories in, calories out, period.

That was helpful. I'm glad you could share your insights and show everybody exactly what kind of person you are. Are your parents proud of you? This is a forum for helping people lose weight. Some people bring intelligent, productive things to the conversation. For those not smart enough to come up with honest, insightful, and intelligent things to say, please go bounce a ball somewhere.

WOW! Someone's a little pissy aren't they. I'm sorry that you don't like it but that's the way it is. Eat over your BMR, gain weight. Eat under it, lose weight. I don't see how you can argue with that. Now body composition is something different entirely, but the very first sentence of your original post said "it's not jsut calories in vs. calories out for weight loss" and for strictly weight loss yes it is!

Oh and by the way, yes, my parent's are very proud of me, thanks for asking! :drinker:

I didn't change your name to something childish because i disagreed with you. This is a forum for people helping people, and i put myself out there to help. It's ok to respectfully disagree. Would you call me "rocbloa" if we were having a conversation in a different setting? If you are not here to help, and only here to act childish, then what kind of a man are you? Do your parents know who you really are? And from the picture, it looks like you are an adult!?!? Pathetic.

Has it occurred to you that it may have been a simple typo? You seem awfully quick to take offense when it's possible none was intended......and your retort is hardly mature either.

He accidentally put quotes on both sides of the misspelled word? Quite a typo.

EllieNewOrleans

bump for later !!!!

nymthiriel

Thanks for the thread - it was entertaining for the first 3 pages...now it's just going in circles. Just agree to disagree...lol

jeffpettis

I'm sorry "Rocbloa" but for weight loss or weight gain even, it is as simple as calories in, calories out, period.

That was helpful. I'm glad you could share your insights and show everybody exactly what kind of person you are. Are your parents proud of you? This is a forum for helping people lose weight. Some people bring intelligent, productive things to the conversation. For those not smart enough to come up with honest, insightful, and intelligent things to say, please go bounce a ball somewhere.

WOW! Someone's a little pissy aren't they. I'm sorry that you don't like it but that's the way it is. Eat over your BMR, gain weight. Eat under it, lose weight. I don't see how you can argue with that. Now body composition is something different entirely, but the very first sentence of your original post said "it's not jsut calories in vs. calories out for weight loss" and for strictly weight loss yes it is!

Oh and by the way, yes, my parent's are very proud of me, thanks for asking! :drinker:

I didn't change your name to something childish because i disagreed with you. This is a forum for people helping people, and i put myself out there to help. It's ok to respectfully disagree. Would you call me "rocbloa" if we were having a conversation in a different setting? If you are not here to help, and only here to act childish, then what kind of a man are you? Do your parents know who you really are? And from the picture, it looks like you are an adult!?!? Pathetic.

First of all I didn't change your name because I was being childish, I mistyped it. But by the way you sound you don't make mistakes, although I am man enough to admit when I made one.

Now back to your original post, you seem to be very angry with everyone that has disagreed with you in any way, shape or form, but the simple fact remains, for strictly weight loss it's calories in calories out. Don't get mad at me about it, I didn't design the system, you'll have to talk to the man upstairs about that.

ahamm002

I'm sorry "Rocbloa" but for weight loss or weight gain even, it is as simple as calories in, calories out, period.

If you sleep deprive yourself, don't exercise, and only eat junk food, then it's going to be a lot harder to have the motivation to meet your caloric goals (especially in the long run). So while it may boil down to calories in calories out, there's much more to successful long term weight management than simply counting calories in/out.

ahamm002

I whole heartily agree with the fact that eating the right foods is much better than eating crap foods. If this were a perfect world we'd all eat 100% organic fruits, vegetables, and meats, but the fact is if all your concerned about is losing weight one of the easiest ways is calorie counting. I could eat 1500 calories a day of cookies until I reach my target weight and then eat 2100 calories of cookies a day to maintain. Obviously it's not healthy or safe for that matter, but it would work. I've lost 28 pounds in 60 days by doing nothing but counting calories. I don't exercise and I still eat a small amount of junk food almost everyday. I currently live a sedative lifestyle. I log what I eat and do my best to not go over.

That is excellent, keep up the good work. Keep in mind though that if you're sedentary, a portion of that weight you lost was muscle. If you gain the weight back, it'll come back as all fat and you'll be worse off than you started. So while yes, weight loss is still technically based on calories in vs calories out, that's not the optimal mentality IMHO.

Rocbola

I'm sorry "Rocbloa" but for weight loss or weight gain even, it is as simple as calories in, calories out, period.

That was helpful. I'm glad you could share your insights and show everybody exactly what kind of person you are. Are your parents proud of you? This is a forum for helping people lose weight. Some people bring intelligent, productive things to the conversation. For those not smart enough to come up with honest, insightful, and intelligent things to say, please go bounce a ball somewhere.

WOW! Someone's a little pissy aren't they. I'm sorry that you don't like it but that's the way it is. Eat over your BMR, gain weight. Eat under it, lose weight. I don't see how you can argue with that. Now body composition is something different entirely, but the very first sentence of your original post said "it's not jsut calories in vs. calories out for weight loss" and for strictly weight loss yes it is!

Oh and by the way, yes, my parent's are very proud of me, thanks for asking! :drinker:

I didn't change your name to something childish because i disagreed with you. This is a forum for people helping people, and i put myself out there to help. It's ok to respectfully disagree. Would you call me "rocbloa" if we were having a conversation in a different setting? If you are not here to help, and only here to act childish, then what kind of a man are you? Do your parents know who you really are? And from the picture, it looks like you are an adult!?!? Pathetic.

First of all I didn't change your name because I was being childish, I mistyped it. But by the way you sound you don't make mistakes, although I am man enough to admit when I made one.

Now back to your original post, you seem to be very angry with everyone that has disagreed with you in any way, shape or form, but the simple fact remains, for strictly weight loss it's calories in calories out. Don't get mad at me about it, I didn't design the system, you'll have to talk to the man upstairs about that.

And i said many times that the simple formula for weight loss/maintenance gain IS in fact calories in, calories out. I also said that there are many other factors involved. And this thread is for the newbies who think eating a 110 calorie cookie is the same thing as eating a 110 calorie grapefruit. You aren't new to losing weight, you already have the info you need, obviously, because you have lost 35 LBS according to your ticker. So why split hairs?

And about the "system that the man upstairs created", he didn't create pop tarts and biscuits, he created fruits and vegetables. I'll take my calories from god-food over the exact same number of calories of man-food, any day.

zukkiz

Wow, is all I can say to all of this.

All I know is that what I am doing works for me, and I can maintain this eating style for life. I try my best to eat as healthy as I can, but life happens and sometimes the food that enters my body isn't the best, but I am in it for the long haul. I don't need a quick fix.

I eat 2300 calories a day, plus 300 for breastfeeding. I am eating at maintenance right now, and will be cutting at 15% in a couple of weeks. I am still losing at TDEE so I might be burning more than I think I am.

Rocbola

Wow, is all I can say to all of this.

All I know is that what I am doing works for me, and I can maintain this eating style for life. I try my best to eat as healthy as I can, but life happens and sometimes the food that enters my body isn't the best, but I am in it for the long haul. I don't need a quick fix.

I eat 2300 calories a day, plus 300 for breastfeeding. I am eating at maintenance right now, and will be cutting at 15% in a couple of weeks. I am still losing at TDEE so I might be burning more than I think I am.

I love the "in it for the long haul" attitude!

monipie

nope, it is just that simple- actually.

RougeR93

I have BSC in Bioscience and recently became extremely interested in nutrition so I AGREE 100%. The body is truly miraculous and very smart! It's all about chemicals, and how these effect signalling networks within the body.

Oh, weight loss would be so simple if we all just jumped off all these ridiculous diet band wagons (keto, low carb etc etc) and just got back to B A S I C S.

Hungry? Then EAT but make sure its REAL food!

Lovdiamnd

Yes!

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cwsreddy

DAT BUMP!

taylorblade

Crochetluvr wrote: »

When I ate processed food (with high fructose corn syrup and that other crap) and carbs, I didn't lose any weight. Now still with the same amount of calories I eat clean food and more protein and keep losing.......

You sound like me.....totally agree with YOU!

I know im 2 years late but i been reading this if you are not losing weight eating what you want while even in a deficit then thee is literally something wrong with your hormones. Because recently i been eating anything and working out thus remaining in a deficit and still losing fat.

refuseresist

OK someone said 'god-food'
Whoops I didn't see the date

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