Slow Runners Unite - How to Increase Speed?!?!?!

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  • amyhoss
    amyhoss Posts: 414 Member
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    I'm so slow, I've had walkers pass me. My dog is practically standing still next to me while I run. I did pass another runner once but she was probably at the end of a grueling 15 miler. I try to embrace it but wouldn't mind getting a little faster.

    lol at your poor dog. I'm scared to run with my dogs because they are too fast!!
  • melanie3103
    melanie3103 Posts: 246 Member
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    bump - i am in the same boat, will come back later to hear advice xx
  • balogda1
    balogda1 Posts: 21 Member
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    Check out evolution running. There are videos you can watch on you tube for free. It shaved a minute off my run times.
  • CarsonRuns
    CarsonRuns Posts: 3,039 Member
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    The best way to get faster is to run more easy miles. As your body becomes more efficient, your pace will decrease automatically. Once you have a good aerobic base of a lot of slow, easy miles, you can start to add other elements to help increase your fitness. A good running program will consist of these elements:

    1. LSD (long, slow distance) run of ~ 120 minutes once a week
    2. Tempo runs ( classic Daniels tempo is 20 minutes @ threshold ) weekly to every other week
    3. Easy run of 90 minutes once a week
    4. Interval sessions (varying speed, quantity and distance based on the goal of that particular session) weekly to every other week
    5. Strides ( fast repeats of 20 to 30 seconds done at the end of an easy run. done at mile race pace or faster. quantity based on level of fitness.
    6. Fartlek runs (unstructured to "speed play" runs where you change pace and intensity for periods during a run, going to feel)
    7. Lots of easy running at conversational pace. From 75% to 95% of total mileage, depending upon what phase of training you are in.
    8. Recovery runs, done at easier than easy pace for those days after a really hard workout.
  • fitnessyeoja
    fitnessyeoja Posts: 357 Member
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    bump
  • tabinmaine
    tabinmaine Posts: 965 Member
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    bumping to come back to this thread !
  • tobielauren
    tobielauren Posts: 184 Member
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    I am a track coach and read some of the replies...someone mentioned fartlicks...to me that is the best way of increasing speed

    If you are going to do them, it's probably best to not be on a treadmill. The easiest explanation would be to give examples of something on the track. You could walk the turns, run the straightaways (you don't need to be running in between these), it's a great way of mixing up the manotony of running in circles. You could do this for 8 laps and that is 2 miles right there! Another one could be run 200, walk 200, or any other variation. Or if you are on the roads, pick landmarks or telephone poles and sprint every other pole


    As annoying as it sounds...the best way of running faster is just that...run faster (but you don't have to go the same distance or time, you can go less and then gradually increase that)
  • CarsonRuns
    CarsonRuns Posts: 3,039 Member
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    As annoying as it sounds...the best way of running faster is just that...run faster (but you don't have to go the same distance or time, you can go less and then gradually increase that)

    Completely disagree. Without the aerobic base to support that running faster, you will hit a plateau quickly and not advance beyond that plateau. There are many exercise physiologist and running coaches that will echo this.
  • tobielauren
    tobielauren Posts: 184 Member
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    As annoying as it sounds...the best way of running faster is just that...run faster (but you don't have to go the same distance or time, you can go less and then gradually increase that)

    Completely disagree. Without the aerobic base to support that running faster, you will hit a plateau quickly and not advance beyond that plateau. There are many exercise physiologist and running coaches that will echo this.

    But I agree with you. Yes an aerobic base is necessary. But once you have that base, you need to run faster to get faster. It's the same thing with strength training. Once you are out of the hypertrophy phase and into strength phase, your not going to get stronger if you don't change reps/ sets and increase the weight a bit. Maybe I should have been more clear about how gradual you do need to go. But its really the same, to get faster, you need to run faster.
  • CarsonRuns
    CarsonRuns Posts: 3,039 Member
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    As annoying as it sounds...the best way of running faster is just that...run faster (but you don't have to go the same distance or time, you can go less and then gradually increase that)

    Completely disagree. Without the aerobic base to support that running faster, you will hit a plateau quickly and not advance beyond that plateau. There are many exercise physiologist and running coaches that will echo this.

    But I agree with you. Yes an aerobic base is necessary. But once you have that base, you need to run faster to get faster. It's the same thing with strength training. Once you are out of the hypertrophy phase and into strength phase, your not going to get stronger if you don't change reps/ sets and increase the weight a bit. Maybe I should have been more clear about how gradual you do need to go. But its really the same, to get faster, you need to run faster.

    Okay, yes. We are on the same page. Base first, then speed. Cool.
  • stingray_11
    stingray_11 Posts: 4
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    I agree with CarsonRuns. You need a good base then start doing speed work. I use to race 5k, 10k and Marathon as well as Ironman triathlons. I would do speed work on the track. 800 m fast run then 800m slow jog. Work your way up to 8-10 reps. You can also do speed runs on the road, run fast from utility pole to utility pole then jog the same and repeat. Hill runs will also help your speed. Find a good size hill about 1/4 to 1/2 mile long and do repeats.
  • ROBJ3411
    ROBJ3411 Posts: 72 Member
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    Some good advice and some not so much....

    Here are a couple of things I would suggest:

    1. running more to make you faster only works to a certain extent and may be the least effective way to do it.
    2. If you want to run faster, then run faster-ie fartleks, intervals, Tempo runs(run a shorter distance at a faster pace.)
    3. Weigh loss equals speed- already stated but a true fact...
    4. Strength equals speed. Adding some Stength work will make you stronger and faster( running hills is an example, but weight training is also very effective.
    5. Cardio- need to build the Cardio base to sustain. this is where running MORE helps. but there are many other ways to get this done...
  • CarsonRuns
    CarsonRuns Posts: 3,039 Member
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    1. running more to make you faster only works to a certain extent and may be the least effective way to do it.

    Least effective how? This is how the fastest people in the world do it. I think that makes it effective.
    5. Cardio- need to build the Cardio base to sustain. this is where running MORE helps. but there are many other ways to get this done...

    Aerobic fitness gained from other activities does not translate into an aerobic base that can be used for running hard intervals and similar workouts. You need the running fitness to ensure that all the muscles, tendons and ligaments being used can handle the stress of the workout in addition to the aerobic base.
  • ROBJ3411
    ROBJ3411 Posts: 72 Member
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    1. running more to make you faster only works to a certain extent and may be the least effective way to do it.

    Least effective how? This is how the fastest people in the world do it. I think that makes it effective.


    I think the fastest people in the world do alot of speed work to get fast. lets no confuse elite level athletes with beginners. the prescription is not the same.
    Aerobic fitness gained from other activities does not translate into an aerobic base that can be used for running hard intervals and similar workouts. You need the running fitness to ensure that all the muscles, tendons and ligaments being used can handle the stress of the workout in addition to the aerobic base.

    I disagree- running is NOT the only thing that makes you a better runner. I've seen guys in their 30s that have been running for a long time decrease their 5k time doing nothing more then CrossFit.
  • PANZERIA
    PANZERIA Posts: 471 Member
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    Bump!
  • CarsonRuns
    CarsonRuns Posts: 3,039 Member
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    I think the fastest people in the world do alot of speed work to get fast. lets no confuse elite level athletes with beginners. the prescription is not the same.

    You would be thinking wrong. The volume of speed work, compared to total mileage, is not very different for what would be prescribed for an amateur level runner. Read "Daniels Running Formula".

    I disagree- running is NOT the only thing that makes you a better runner. I've seen guys in their 30s that have been running for a long time decrease their 5k time doing nothing more then CrossFit.

    Right. Guys that have been running for a long time, so they already have the tissue structure to handle the stresses. A beginning runner doesn't and they won't get it from doing 30DS or CrossFit. They try to roll into those hard workouts without having the running fitness and they'll end up hurt.

    ETA: I agree that running is not the only thing that makes you a better runner. Other activities help. But, to maximize your potential as a runner you have to run. You don't become a better bowler by playing darts. :wink:
  • ROBJ3411
    ROBJ3411 Posts: 72 Member
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    I think the fastest people in the world do alot of speed work to get fast. lets no confuse elite level athletes with beginners. the prescription is not the same.

    You would be thinking wrong. The volume of speed work, compared to total mileage, is not very different for what would be prescribed for an amateur level runner. Read "Daniels Running Formula".

    I disagree- running is NOT the only thing that makes you a better runner. I've seen guys in their 30s that have been running for a long time decrease their 5k time doing nothing more then CrossFit.

    Right. Guys that have been running for a long time, so they already have the tissue structure to handle the stresses. A beginning runner doesn't and they won't get it from doing 30DS or CrossFit. They try to roll into those hard workouts without having the running fitness and they'll end up hurt.

    ETA: I agree that running is not the only thing that makes you a better runner. Other activities help. But, to maximize your potential as a runner you have to run. You don't become a better bowler by playing darts. :wink:

    Sorry I had to walk away from this yesterday, work called. I think OP's original question was "how to get faster." Now I stand by what I said originally that "more running" is probably one of the least effective ways to get faster. My wife is a prime example. She ran 15-20 up to 25 miles a week for an extended period of time with no real goal and NO speed work and she maintained an average running pace that was very similar to the OPs. now she went from running 2-3, 11min mile to 4-5 11 min miles but her speed didn't really improve. May be a bit antidotal but...

    I've not read Daniels, but have read several books on running, training, and triathlon, so I understand that almost all programs include a mileage or LSD aspect to the program and there are plenty of valid reasons to run mileage, but increasing speed is not the primary. I just happen to pick up the Jun'12 RW last night and guess what was on the front cover- Run your best 5K- BL- the program for breaking 30mins had 1 interval run, one tempo run and one Mileage run (LSD) and two recovery runs. So yes as part of a well rounded program LSD/Mileage runs are a key element, but as a standalone they would not be my first(2nd or 3rd) choice to increase speed.

    Now many of the first timer programs delay or even eliminate the introduction of of speed work but the goal of many of these programs is to finish not run faster. Programs like the one found "Idiots guide to HRMs" use a easy/Hard day approach with Tempo-type runs serving as the vast runs, but once again it is not mileage that makes one faster.

    There is also a growing body of research that shows that LSD is unnecessary and possibly a cause to the rash of running related injuries that plague beginner and pro runners alike. The theories out there suggest that HIT/speed and strength work have the same if not better results than the old school LSD/mileage mentality. Now once again we are not talking elite level nor ultra distance athletes we are talking novice runners looking to get better.

    I am not saying this will work for everyone nor that everyone should try it. But I am testing the theory currently. I'm using Crossfit Endurance(12 week cycles) as the basis for my preparation for an Oly Tri, the Army 10-miler and a 1/2 Mary. We shall see how it works, at least for one ol' dude.
  • CarsonRuns
    CarsonRuns Posts: 3,039 Member
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    Points well taken. There are going to be some things we don't agree on and that's fine by me.

    But I am testing the theory currently. I'm using Crossfit Endurance(12 week cycles) as the basis for my preparation for an Oly Tri, the Army 10-miler and a 1/2 Mary. We shall see how it works, at least for one ol' dude.

    I'm interested in your results. I'll train the traditional way and we'll compare HM time improvements. I assume you'll be running yours in the Fall. I'll run one some time in early September in preparation for the Baystate Marathon. I know a sampling of two is a small group, but it will be interesting anyway. :smile:
  • ROBJ3411
    ROBJ3411 Posts: 72 Member
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    Points well taken. There are going to be some things we don't agree on and that's fine by me.

    But I am testing the theory currently. I'm using Crossfit Endurance(12 week cycles) as the basis for my preparation for an Oly Tri, the Army 10-miler and a 1/2 Mary. We shall see how it works, at least for one ol' dude.

    I'm interested in your results. I'll train the traditional way and we'll compare HM time improvements. I assume you'll be running yours in the Fall. I'll run one some time in early September in preparation for the Baystate Marathon. I know a sampling of two is a small group, but it will be interesting anyway. :smile:

    I'll concede that you have more skills in quotes and emoticons...

    My OLY is in August, Army 10 miler in OCT,1/2 Mary in Nov...Tough Mudder in Dec...Full IM next spring

    I know old dogs don't necessarily want to learn new tricks (and that is not a shot at all). One thing I've found is there are a lot of ways to get results and different things work for different people; My intent was to provide some of those others on here with some tools I've accumulated over the past couple of decades...
  • timboom1
    timboom1 Posts: 762 Member
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    My wife is a prime example. She ran 15-20 up to 25 miles a week for an extended period of time with no real goal and NO speed work and she maintained an average running pace that was very similar to the OPs. now she went from running 2-3, 11min mile to 4-5 11 min miles but her speed didn't really improve. May be a bit antidotal but...

    I think the other posiibility here is that what used to be your wife's easy pace is the same but her effort got alot easier, meaning that she was probably faster if the percieved effort were the same. My wife does no speed work and no 30DS and no crossfit, just runs miles. She does it by feel so she has no idea until race day how fast she is, only that her runs feel either easy or hard based on perceived effort. In 1 year she went from an 8:35 pace in a 10K to a 8:24 pace in her first Half to an 8:06 pace in her second half.

    I don't think there is a real question that if you can run 5 miles at pace X, you can run 3 at a pace less than X, if you want to.

    On the other hand, taking some days off from running may also be helping your wife as she may have been running tired alot of the time.

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