Corn used my man-parts as a speedbag.

mmapags

I think a whole lot of people are reading this wrong.

In my opinion the main reason people fail is non-compliance. One of the reasons that many people can't comply is that the list of RULES for weight-loss is so hard, requiring you to change everything about how you live your life. As far as I see it, SideSteel is simply turning that list on its head, calling BS on the rules that really aren't necessary and giving a much simpler list of the real rules.

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't eat clean, or do cardio, or eat breakfast etc if it works for you. BUT, if you really need spaghetti in your life, eat it..... it won't mean you can't possibly succeed.

Well said, though I think some people have an easier time limiting calories by reducing some of their food choices. My understanding is that 'clean' eating does that. Rather than learn a bunch of rules written by the author of some diet book, I prefer analyzing my own eating patterns to find and eliminate those foods that if I let in the house, I will absolutely think about 24/7 until they are gone. Butter and crusty French bread: you KNOW I'm talkin' about you!

Exactly! I think the key point is that there are actually very few rules that really need to be applied to everyone. The rest are for us to determine based on what helps us get there.

I think a lot of this is about emotion and shame. It's hard enough feeling ashamed about being overweight, without also having to feel ashamed about our meal frequency, how clean our diet is, what type of exercise we choose etc etc. Those buttons are really easy to push, I still remember a guy on here that I said by implementing an Intermittent fasting protocol I was just lazy and not prepared to put the work in. He was clearly an *kitten* who was full of BS, but it sticks with you

The list of absolute necessities for weight loss is relatively small.
The list of things that fall under the personal preference category is very, very large.

I think it's a good point to not confuse those two lists, which is why I post some of the things that I post.

Word! Not making it more complicated than it needs to be is wildly helpful in making it easier for people to comply and stick with it. The extrapolating from someone's own anecdotal experience of what they believe worked for them into "and this will work for everyone!" is counter productive. I've found you and some others to be a great help to me in keeping me focused on the key elements.

Whitezombiegirl

Love this- totally agree. Though once i went 'clean'- paleo clean, i can't go back. It turns my stomach when freinds are stuffing down all kinds of junk, where as once I would join in.

futuremalestripper

Wait, I thought this thread was about the benefits of colon cleansing with dish soap?

EmilyLStuart

You didn't read what I wrote. I said for weight loss. So did Sidesteal. Unnecessary for weight loss isn't the same as 'unnecessary for overall health'. And even then...your point is debatable. Do I believe that clean (my definition is roughly yours...wonder of wonder...two of us agree!) eating is in general the better choice? Sure I do. Do I believe that consuming processed foods is going to give me cancer, rot my body from the inside out, and make me fat?

I'm sorry, no...I don't.

As for your low carb thing to break your plateau...I did much the same as you did, only in reverse. I went FROM low carb, TO high fat AND carbs, with only moderate protein...stopped working out for three weeks, and lost over 14lbs. Breaking a 6 week 'plateau' in my weight loss. Oddly enough, at the EXACT same time, I went from eating STRICTLY CLEAN (chicken, beef, fresh vegetables, zero processed foods, water only) to eating Taco Bell every single day (long story why).

So...please explain that to me if you would. Exactly the opposite of your experience, yet the results were exactly the same.

And you didn’t read what I wrote on my last post. I am agreeing with you that basic math for calories consumed can work for weight loss. I said at least twice that I do agree.
When I said eating clean is better, yes perhaps I should have included “for health”. And yes, I know that the point of the post is what works for weight loss. I do not, however, agree with the way this article is presented; truly that is my issue here. Is basic math for weight loss factual? Absolutely. But it’s also factual to say: “Cut off your left arm and you are guaranteed to lose weight – and lose it fast – and keep it off!” or “Go on the 14 day Hollywood miracle diet where all you drink is blue liquid stuff”

However, I would not think very highly of an article that presented either solution and made it sound as if all you should be concerned with is taking off the pounds, no matter how you do it…just as long as you lose the weight.


Additionally, I never ever said clean was the ONLY way to do it. I never said “all-or-nothing”. I never said “mandatory”. I never said any of that! Please be careful when implying these things, because it is putting words into my mouth that I simply never said.
I also never said you are going to rot your body from the inside out by eating processed foods. I never said that either, and they way you have it worded, again, makes it sound as if you’re putting those words into my mouth. Again, never said it.

Here’s another one that yall are ripping me apart for – I said:
“Low carbing and/or carb cycling DOES help me; recently I did it and broke a 3 month plateau.”

Do you notice the word “ME” in there? I said me. Not you. Not your mom. Not anyone else. I said ME.
Congratulations to you on achieving weight loss using the opposite method as I did. Just because you said it worked for you, and I used something different, would not lead me to ridicule you for it. Again, my word was “me”. Your word was you (essentially). Everyone has to find what works best for them.

I can think of the very obvious reason, decreasing carbs from 150 a day to 30 a day leads to massive amounts of glycogen and water loss. The average person stores about 8-10 pounds of glycogen with water, cutting out carbs means those stores won't get replenished, glycogen is used for just about everything, so it gets used up relatively quickly, ergo, losing 9-10 pounds in a week or two after drastically cutting carbs. Pretty much exactly what you described. Not all weight lost is fat.

Thanks…I am aware of the glycogen/water loss that accompanies low carb. I was expecting to gain back about 4 pounds after returning to normal carb levels 2-3 weeks ago. I did have a small 2lb pound spike, however, it has since gone back down and I have actually lost 2 more pounds. I am now 11-12 lbs lighter than when I began the temporary low carb thing back on May 29. That is why I say that the temporary use of low carb has worked for me. Perhaps not anyone else, but it did for me.

In the end, we are not all that different. Many of us want to lose weight. Many of us desire to be healthier. And as I stated previously, I agree with most of the post. I just do not think it’s fair that I was ripped for simply saying that low carb worked for me, and that fruits and veggies are better (for health, I should add!!). Especially when I agreed with the main point – do your calorie math and you can lose weight.

crisanderson27

And you didn’t read what I wrote on my last post. I am agreeing with you that basic math for calories consumed can work for weight loss. I said at least twice that I do agree.
When I said eating clean is better, yes perhaps I should have included “for health”. And yes, I know that the point of the post is what works for weight loss. I do not, however, agree with the way this article is presented; truly that is my issue here. Is basic math for weight loss factual? Absolutely. But it’s also factual to say: “Cut off your left arm and you are guaranteed to lose weight – and lose it fast – and keep it off!” or “Go on the 14 day Hollywood miracle diet where all you drink is blue liquid stuff”

However, I would not think very highly of an article that presented either solution and made it sound as if all you should be concerned with is taking off the pounds, no matter how you do it…just as long as you lose the weight.


Additionally, I never ever said clean was the ONLY way to do it. I never said “all-or-nothing”. I never said “mandatory”. I never said any of that! Please be careful when implying these things, because it is putting words into my mouth that I simply never said.
I also never said you are going to rot your body from the inside out by eating processed foods. I never said that either, and they way you have it worded, again, makes it sound as if you’re putting those words into my mouth. Again, never said it.

Here’s another one that yall are ripping me apart for – I said:
“Low carbing and/or carb cycling DOES help me; recently I did it and broke a 3 month plateau.”

Do you notice the word “ME” in there? I said me. Not you. Not your mom. Not anyone else. I said ME.
Congratulations to you on achieving weight loss using the opposite method as I did. Just because you said it worked for you, and I used something different, would not lead me to ridicule you for it. Again, my word was “me”. Your word was you (essentially). Everyone has to find what works best for them.

Ok...first I want to say that I'm not down on you, or your methods...at all. Not in the least!

Second, I want to say that without interpretation, and assumptions about what someone specifically means, communication would be impossible. Everyone else seemed to take your post in a similar manner to what I did. If that was wrong, I apologize. I reread it...and still come out with the same interpretation. You spent a lot of time above telling me (us?) what you weren't saying (which seems...again, in my interpretation...in opposition with your previous posts). Reading both, I'm finding it tough to figure out what you actually were intending to say.

Let me address a few specific points please.

Is basic math for weight loss factual? Absolutely. But it’s also factual to say: “Cut off your left arm and you are guaranteed to lose weight – and lose it fast – and keep it off!” or “Go on the 14 day Hollywood miracle diet where all you drink is blue liquid stuff”

And how is basic math, calories in vs. calories out as opposed to eating 'clean'...in any way comparable to the dangerous or flat out possibly lethal methods you mentioned above lol? Is it unhealthy? If it won't 'rot your body from within'...what is the issue? What, specifically...is going to happen to someone who doesn't eat mostly clean? Understand, I prefer to eat clean as well (I've said this more than once as well )...but I know...from my own and others experience...that it's totally unrelated to weight, and more importantly...fat loss.

However, I would not think very highly of an article that presented either solution and made it sound as if all you should be concerned with is taking off the pounds, no matter how you do it…just as long as you lose the weight.

I didn't get this from the original post...and I don't think most other people did either. The point of this thread wasn't to say 'don't bother eating healthy because you don't have to!'. The point was to say 'If you're keeping track of your calories and sticking to them, don't beat yourself to death and guilt/binge because you had some Oreo's, or stopped at the McDonald's drive through!'.

Anyhow, again...I know your intent is 100% from the heart...as was the OP's, and I promise...as I said above, I'm not down on you for it at all! I just think there's some miscommunication here about either what you meant, or what he meant...causing this discussion to go far beyond what it probably would have otherwise.

:flowerforyou:

FlaxMilk

Thank you! I'd like to add... You are not suddenly allergic to gluten.

You actually can become suddenly allergic to gluten. Celiac's can be "activated" by an environmental stress or trigger.

http://www.csaceliacs.info/

http://www.celiac.com/articles/1107/1/Celiac-Disease-CausesRisk-Factors/Page1.html

http://www.gooddayglutenfree.com/pages/celiacdiseaseinfo.html

Celiac's Disease is not an allergy to gluten. It is not an allergy at all. It is an autoimmune disorder that is caused by an intolerance to gluten.

Was bugging the crap out of me.

Cheers to OP!

Yes, you're right, I have it. I quoted the quickest info I had rather than get into the nitty gritty of the difference between wheat allergies celiacs gluten blah blah blah. (For the record, people develop allergies overnight too.)

BigDaddyRonnie

This post rocks dude!


You mean its not okay to brush my teeth with pure bleach for15 seconds?

konerusp

You don't need to eat clean.
You don't need to eat breakfast to get your metabolism started.
Your metabolism doesn't get kick-started and you don't rev it up.
You can eat food before bed.
You can eat food IN bed.
There is no specific time at which eating will cause you to gain fat.
You don't "shock your body"

Ill have to respectfully disagree with all the above points,people asking you to eat clean is not for weight loss,its for a healthy living,Pick up a food item at the grocery store and read it ingredients,there is so much artificial additives that youve never heard of,nor does your body k now how to process them and that becomes a foreign cell-one of the primary reasons for cancer.It is called breakfast because you have given your body a long break from eating food,breakfast is its first signal to the start of another day.Again this is not about weight loss,its to give your body optimum conditions to work better.Just as how you grease an engine to work smoother.you fill your car with contaminated petroleum-what happens to it?Food in bed is a nasty thing to do.towards the end of the day the body get ready to slow down and rest for the day,the body works according to the cycles in nature,not according to when u want to eat your food.you want to store stuff to fat,go ahead and eat it in bed,eat it in the middle of the night!!Food eaten in the morning is readily absorbed by the body-dint your elders teach you to make dinner the lightest meal?and lastly,you do shock your body,you dont fuel it and ask it to work like a dog,it will release a ton of cortisol which signals storing fat.Human body is designed to live per the cycles in nature.Dont give people the stuff they want to hear and get applauded for a bunch of wrong information,do more research.

grayyoung84

This should be the Terms of Service for MFP! Great stuff!

kcdrake

love

crisanderson27

You don't need to eat clean.
You don't need to eat breakfast to get your metabolism started.
Your metabolism doesn't get kick-started and you don't rev it up.
You can eat food before bed.
You can eat food IN bed.
There is no specific time at which eating will cause you to gain fat.
You don't "shock your body"

Ill have to respectfully disagree with all the above points,people asking you to eat clean is not for weight loss,its for a healthy living,Pick up a food item at the grocery store and read it ingredients,there is so much artificial additives that youve never heard of,nor does your body k now how to process them and that becomes a foreign cell-one of the primary reasons for cancer.It is called breakfast because you have given your body a long break from eating food,breakfast is its first signal to the start of another day.Again this is not about weight loss,its to give your body optimum conditions to work better.Just as how you grease an engine to work smoother.you fill your car with contaminated petroleum-what happens to it?Food in bed is a nasty thing to do.towards the end of the day the body get ready to slow down and rest for the day,the body works according to the cycles in nature,not according to when u want to eat your food.you want to store stuff to fat,go ahead and eat it in bed,eat it in the middle of the night!!Food eaten in the morning is readily absorbed by the body-dint your elders teach you to make dinner the lightest meal?and lastly,you do shock your body,you dont fuel it and ask it to work like a dog,it will release a ton of cortisol which signals storing fat.Human body is designed to live per the cycles in nature.Dont give people the stuff they want to hear and get applauded for a bunch of wrong information,do more research.

/facepalm

Nothing you posted in your commentary was correct. Do your OWN research.

Oh, and for the record, in many cases our elders also taught us that women shouldn't vote, and other races shouldn't ride at the front of the bus. Should we have listened to them there, too?

/sigh

angelalf1979

♥ ★ ♥ ★ ♥ ★♥ ★♥

Yep

ESVABelle

This post calls for some fresh nut butter. On warm carb-filled bread.

slowturtle1

You don't need to eat clean.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree somewhat on this. There's too much processed garbage that's loaded with chemicals out there. I sure do feel a lot better since it's being phased out of my diet.

I love the majority of the list, but I also respectfully disagree about clean eating. True that you don't "need" to eat clean--you can eat McDonald's fries and chicken nuggets every day and survive and probably lose weight. Doesn't mean it's great for your overall health, but you can do what you want. Just depends on your overall goals I guess. That being said, if I was starving and all there was to eat were Twinkies, you bet your *kitten* I'd be eating one!

kealambert

****....yeah

casseyleinen

All I can say is WOW!

mustgetmuscles1

:drinker: :drinker: :drinker: :drinker:


Cheers OP.

treetop57

Can someone get me details on the cabbage donkey stew diet? I'd like to give it a try and it sounds like what I need to boost my metabolism and confuse my muscles.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SocialRopes

you. ROCK!
(even if the corn did use your man-parts as a speedbag.)

TravisBurns

So good. I lol'd at the name. And OP's post is 1000000% true.

Rosa1213

Aw, I like the colorful dumbbells
The all-black ones are BOR-RING!

I have to say though, my friends tell me that I'm going to get gross and too-muscular. If only it worked that way
I told my dad jokingly: "I'm lifting weights now. I'm going to look like you!" He genuinely burst out laughing. I love him

michaela531

Love.

tigersword

You don't need to eat clean.
You don't need to eat breakfast to get your metabolism started.
Your metabolism doesn't get kick-started and you don't rev it up.
You can eat food before bed.
You can eat food IN bed.
There is no specific time at which eating will cause you to gain fat.
You don't "shock your body"

Ill have to respectfully disagree with all the above points,people asking you to eat clean is not for weight loss,its for a healthy living,Pick up a food item at the grocery store and read it ingredients,there is so much artificial additives that youve never heard of,nor does your body k now how to process them and that becomes a foreign cell-one of the primary reasons for cancer.It is called breakfast because you have given your body a long break from eating food,breakfast is its first signal to the start of another day.Again this is not about weight loss,its to give your body optimum conditions to work better.Just as how you grease an engine to work smoother.you fill your car with contaminated petroleum-what happens to it?Food in bed is a nasty thing to do.towards the end of the day the body get ready to slow down and rest for the day,the body works according to the cycles in nature,not according to when u want to eat your food.you want to store stuff to fat,go ahead and eat it in bed,eat it in the middle of the night!!Food eaten in the morning is readily absorbed by the body-dint your elders teach you to make dinner the lightest meal?and lastly,you do shock your body,you dont fuel it and ask it to work like a dog,it will release a ton of cortisol which signals storing fat.Human body is designed to live per the cycles in nature.Dont give people the stuff they want to hear and get applauded for a bunch of wrong information,do more research.

Nothing amuses more than someone spouting off a bunch of falsehoods, and then finishing by saying, "do some research."

Your metabolism operates based on the circadian rhythms, circadian rhythms have absolutely no bearing on what time you eat.

Breakfast is unnecessary, it's a recent invention that's only a couple hundred years old. Before that, humans ate once a day, sometimes once every other day, sometimes with even longer fasts back before agriculture.

Fat storage has nothing to do with when you eat. The only thing that matters is total amount of food consumed. If you're in a calorie deficit, or at calorie maintenance, you won't store fat, even if you eat all your calories while lying in bed and immediately go to sleep. It's basic biology, the human body only stores excess energy (fat) when excess energy has been consumed. No excess energy, no energy stored. It's really not that difficult a concept. You brought up the car example, of you put 5 gallons of gas in your car and burn 6 gallons driving, your car will have less fuel in it than when you started. The body uses fuel in exactly the same way. It can't magically store fuel unless you eat excess calories.

Sidesteal

It's fine to disagree with me, but regarding clean eating, please keep in mind that the all-or-nothing examples comparing a clean diet to one that consists of 100% chicken nuggets and spam and processed corn-fritters or whatever else, isn't a realistic comparison nor does it represent any understanding of my original post.



"Eat mostly whole and nutrient dense foods" .... and you know what? If you do that, and you eat the appropriate amount of food, and you get off the couch, you can ALSO incorporate SOME food that isn't nutrient dense, and you're not going to have any problems because of it.


Orthorexia is a health concern, too.

mazie61

Glucocorticoid

To the folks who "respectfully disagree" about not focusing on eating clean - can you objectively define "clean"? And not what you personally think it means. No, there is no objective definition. How can you favor a concept that has no actual agreed upon meaning?

crisanderson27

To the folks who "respectfully disagree" about not focusing on eating clean - can you objectively define "clean"? And not what you personally think it means. No, there is no objective definition. How can you favor a concept that has no actual agreed upon meaning?

I agree with you completely man. Problem is...they'll cling to their definition...and won't see past their nose as far as any other suggestions go.

For me, I try to eat whole foods when I can...but right now, that's only about 20% of the time. My results don't seem to have been impacted.

/shrug

morgan9

It's fine to disagree with me, but regarding clean eating, please keep in mind that the all-or-nothing examples comparing a clean diet to one that consists of 100% chicken nuggets and spam and processed corn-fritters or whatever else, isn't a realistic comparison nor does it represent any understanding of my original post.



"Eat mostly whole and nutrient dense foods" .... and you know what? If you do that, and you eat the appropriate amount of food, and you get off the couch, you can ALSO incorporate SOME food that isn't nutrient dense, and you're not going to have any problems because of it.


Orthorexia is a health concern, too.

Absolutely! The key here is personal balance, which may take more to find than, say, an article by Dr. Magoo. There is no all or nothing approach and definitely no umbrella rule. Some people love their minutiae and will defend it as gospel until the end.

Thanks for the post OP. I know you were just trying to lessen the food guilt...can't believe I clicked lol Cheers!

InnerFatGirl

Kill the bro-science with fire!

Dave198lbs

To the folks who "respectfully disagree" about not focusing on eating clean - can you objectively define "clean"? And not what you personally think it means. No, there is no objective definition. How can you favor a concept that has no actual agreed upon meaning?

I guess the same way you can favor a concept like "getting healthy" or "dieting" or anything. Clean eating isnt the only concept that cannot be clearly defined and the term is relative just like many terms on this journey.

I imagine most people who are on this journey towards better health and fitness know basically what clean eating is.

Should you focus on it? Noone HAS to focus on it so whether you should or not is your choice.

When someone says their diet is 20% clean, that very well could be 80% for the next guy's diet.

None of this matters. But this constant belittling of "clean eating" is tired and lame.