Scale number will move only when good & ready

LivingtheLeanDream

@47Jacqueline‌ 2 sizes down but same weight! Awesome job! ‌ we need more of these inspiring stories! ☺ then I really will ditch the scales lol

DaniTronMcNally

I ALWAYS get stuck at 62kilos, I have no idea why but that number just bothers me now. I want to be 55 kilos (I'm short, it's just so hard to get past 62!

Kim55555

@RunRutheeRun

I have found this old reply that I think will help you. I agree with @skinny4me2be in that you are not fueling yourself adequately for your tdee. I recommend doing just what skinny me did, eat more . But make sure you increase your calories slowly just 100 per day for a couple of weeks at first, then 100 more calories per day for the next couple of weeks and so on until you reach your the tdee you can cut at. If you increase too quickly your appetite will go berzerk and you'll want to eat way too much and start putting on weight. Thats what happened to me when i experimented.

Dont be afraid though if you do happen to put on scale weight over the next 6 weeks as its glycogen/water weight. Also because you have been undereating for a long time now your metabolic rate would have lowered a lot so it will need to recover.

Check out my metabolic rate thread. There is a lot of useful information in it. It is based on practice not just theory. http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/919536/get-your-metabolic-rate-tested-my-metabolic-reset-story#latest


Anyway here is what I wrote in another reply to someone else back in April 2013


Hi I think you are underestimating the calories you burn for general movement! I don't think 1550 covers it. Also you are forgetting to add in thermogenesis. Thermogenesis burns calories. For instance as an example my resting metabolic rate is 1500. I add around an extra 300 on top of that and that accounts for my neat activity & thermogenesis.

I think you are under eating. I think you should set your goal for at least 2000 gross calories! If that sounds to much to begin with then perhaps you could try to eat 1800 gross calories.

When you calculated the tdee you will need to pick either moderatly active or highly active. Whichever one that best applies. Sedentary tdee is just for couch potatoes. Did you know that tdee factors in things like:

Resting metabolic rate
Exercise
Neat activity
Thermogenesis

Kim55555

RunRutheeRun wrote: »

thanks for your great post!!! I have maintained my 20lb loss for over a year, I had wanted to lose another 3 or 4 lbs but they are just not happening, if anything the scale fluctuates up a little...BUT my clothes are looser, I've moved into yet another tighter notch on my belt, my uk size 10s are big on me and I'm getting into 8's.
I am very active and workout hard 6 days a week/combo of running and strength so my body composition is changing and continues to do so.
Time for me to ditch the scales me thinks...once a month should keep me on track nicely
I average 1700 - 2100 calories, I'm 5ft 2" and 45 yrs old.

Hi @RunRutheeRun Going back to your original post here. I still say, dont worry about that scale weight as you've been losing heaps of fat and getting thinner! I'd say with the actvity you are doing, neat activity, thermogenis etc you should be able to eat between 1900 - 2100 and still lose.

An interesting thing about intense exercise is it rev's up your metabolism so that when your body is burning calories for things like circulation, respiration and a number of other processes that keep you alive etc, the body after vigorous exercise and the day afterwards is paying back a debt and to get back to normal homestasis your body has to burn even more calories for these metabolic functions!

Get the book Burn the fat feed the muscle Tim Venuto !! I highly recommend this book There was an interesting paragraph in which he talks about how for example a 150 pound man and a 150 pound women who have the same activity levels and the exact same body composition need the same amount of calories to maintain their body fat. So those mccardle katch tdee calculations are only just a starting point, for the average person. If you have more lbm than the average person then you are going to need more fuel.



I found another post I wrote nearly 2 years ago, back in January 8 2013. It re-emphasises and confirms that scale doesnt always need to be moving down to confirm fat loss and progress is happening.


January 8, 2013

Just had a re-appraisal this morning.

I'm thrilled with my results!

Since the 6th August 2012, I have lost another:

4 cm's off my waist
5 cm off my chest
1 cm off left arm, 1.5 off right arm
1 cm off my hips
1 cm off my calves
waist to hip ratio - 0.87 A healthy range is below 0.80 so i have work here still to do
3 & 1/2 cm gain to my left leg, 2 & 1/2 cm gain to right leg - muscle gain :eek:

Scale has fluctuated between 57.5 and 60 since August. It is 57.5 kg atm.

I lost .3 % body fat percentage. Down to 26.1% atm. I'd like to get closer to 20% in the future. I still would like to lean out in the tummy/waist area. It will happen just very slowly. Just gotta keep being patient.

Kim55555

skinny4me2be wrote: »

@ Kim55555 My maintenance level (TDEE) is Close to 2450 maybe a bit higher. I eat anywhere from 1850-2150 cals per day...so about a 300-600 deficit. My T25 workouts I do 6x a week.

I used Heybales spreadsheet and my fitbit to help me figure out my TDEE and it was pretty spot on. One thing I've learned. Trust the numbers, and use a tape measure! :-)

Hi @skinny4me2be‌

I found these stats from when I did my bulk in 2013.

‌May 15 2013 - June 15 2013

2416 gross calories = 2 kg gain in 31 days


My exercise levels were the same back then too, so pretty much the same conditions.

So I wonder if I can figure out how much my TDEE is from learning 2400 gross calories causes a 2 kg weigh gain per month for me. I am thinking an average of 2200 would be my TDEE but i'm not sure.

Does anyone here know how to figure this out or maybe its just trial and error. All I know is when i start maintenance i wont allow myself to go above a 2200 weekly calorie average.

Kim55555

RunRutheeRun wrote: »

You and I are simalar weights, I'm 61kg/ 135lbs currently but my stats are: (I'm 5ft 2 1/4"/ 158 cms)
Waist - 26.75" - 68 cms
chest - 32" - 81 cms
Hips - 35.5" - 90 cms
I'm really trying not to focus on the scale anymore, but I'm actually happy with my measurements and don't want to drop another dress size.
Ideally I'd like to be 130lbs/59kg but my body just doesn't want to go there. I eat at deficit,

My body just doesn't want to drop below 61kg! frustrating but I'm trying to make my peace with it and just keep doing what I've always done in the hope that those stubborn few pounds will melt away and in the not too distant future lol

You say you are happy with your measurements and happy with how you look but you would love to lose more scale weight. Its the body fat % and LBM and how you look in your clothes that is "all that matters!" You most likely have added muscle and lost body fat and thats why your scale is not going down. I've mentioned this before. I was looking so much leaner than a lady who weighed 57 kg and I was 62 at the time. Its because I had muscle, was toned and compact. Her body fat % was probbly 30 + % mine was low 20's. She honestly could not believe I weighed 5 kg more than her!

Oh and those stubborn few pounds will melt away as you continue to eat in defecit but not always a " lb loss represented by the scale" but represented by body fat % and measurements

Its interesting how your waist is 68 cm and mine is 80 cm at the same weight and height. I'm an apple shape and hold the fat mostly in the tummy region. I'm slender in the hips and bum. I got to 74 cm waist last time and looked great 74 cm, so thats what i'm aiming for.

Kim55555

DaniTronMcNally wrote: »

I ALWAYS get stuck at 62kilos, I have no idea why but that number just bothers me now. I want to be 55 kilos (I'm short, it's just so hard to get past 62!

Does it matter though? What do you look like and what are your measurements? Are you progressing and losing fat and measurements?

Kim55555

47Jacqueline wrote: »

People often focus so much on the scale and not on the amazing changes to their bodies. When I hit my goal, I continued to lose inches and wear smaler sizes. I lost 2 sizes while at my goal.

Thats awesome!!! This is what i love to read, thank you!!

skinny4me2be

@Kim55555‌
I used a formula I found under another board (fitness & exercise "what is your actual TDEE?")....

If you have a good few weeks/ month or so worth of data try this:

Calories eaten + (lbs lost * 3500) / # of days
Or
Calories eaten - (lbs gained * 3500) / # of days

To get your actual TDEE

So for example sake ( as I don't have my actual stats with me)
Let's say I ate 58000 calories in 31 days and Lost 4lbs

58000+ (4 * 3500) / 31 = 2323 TDEE

This is why I had recommended logging data too. This helps keep me honest with my food logging knowing I want to figure my TDEE. It helped me realize my fitbit was off too as I had not used stride length and my stride was different vs the average stride for my height. So there is room for error and I don't claim to be a doctor or expert, just using some info I found

LivingtheLeanDream

Kim55555 wrote: »

RunRutheeRun wrote: »

You and I are simalar weights, I'm 61kg/ 135lbs currently but my stats are: (I'm 5ft 2 1/4"/ 158 cms)
Waist - 26.75" - 68 cms
chest - 32" - 81 cms
Hips - 35.5" - 90 cms
I'm really trying not to focus on the scale anymore, but I'm actually happy with my measurements and don't want to drop another dress size.
Ideally I'd like to be 130lbs/59kg but my body just doesn't want to go there. I eat at deficit,

My body just doesn't want to drop below 61kg! frustrating but I'm trying to make my peace with it and just keep doing what I've always done in the hope that those stubborn few pounds will melt away and in the not too distant future lol

You say you are happy with your measurements and happy with how you look but you would love to lose more scale weight. Its the body fat % and LBM and how you look in your clothes that is "all that matters!" You most likely have added muscle and lost body fat and thats why your scale is not going down. I've mentioned this before. I was looking so much leaner than a lady who weighed 57 kg and I was 62 at the time. Its because I had muscle, was toned and compact. Her body fat % was probbly 30 + % mine was low 20's. She honestly could not believe I weighed 5 kg more than her!

Oh and those stubborn few pounds will melt away as you continue to eat in defecit but not always a " lb loss represented by the scale" but represented by body fat % and measurements

Its interesting how your waist is 68 cm and mine is 80 cm at the same weight and height. I'm an apple shape and hold the fat mostly in the tummy region. I'm slender in the hips and bum. I got to 74 cm waist last time and looked great 74 cm, so thats what i'm aiming for.

Thanks Kim for your comment. I know you're right, I've looked at progress pics of mine from last summer and I see from them that despite me being similar weight to then I am more leaner, back fat almost entirely gone, my hips look leaner (they are where I am inclined to look really curvy), my thighs are alot leaner. I'm lean all over (apart from the mum tum!) yet I'm the same weight give or take a few lbs. I'm feeling much better now I've seen that. This morning when I stepped on the scales it was 136lbs, still 2 higher than my lowest previous weight which I've not seen in 2 months but today it didn't bother me the same.
I know I've got this! I'm strong and fit and I feel pretty lean, or as lean as I personally want to be. My bodyfat is around 23 which is fine for my age I feel.
Thank you again for your post, and for taking the time to reply to me.

ps as for our differing stats, we're just different shapes, all of us carry our weight differently and the main thing is that we're happy with our shape and make the best of it, its easy to dress to enhance our best points anyway

Ruth x

Kim55555

skinny4me2be wrote: »

@Kim55555‌
I used a formula I found under another board (fitness & exercise "what is your actual TDEE?")....

If you have a good few weeks/ month or so worth of data try this:

Calories eaten + (lbs lost * 3500) / # of days
Or
Calories eaten - (lbs gained * 3500) / # of days

To get your actual TDEE

So for example sake ( as I don't have my actual stats with me)
Let's say I ate 58000 calories in 31 days and Lost 4lbs

58000+ (4 * 3500) / 31 = 2323 TDEE

This is why I had recommended logging data too. This helps keep me honest with my food logging knowing I want to figure my TDEE. It helped me realize my fitbit was off too as I had not used stride length and my stride was different vs the average stride for my height. So there is room for error and I don't claim to be a doctor or expert, just using some info I found

Cool thanks for the formula!! That looks really handy! smile:

There were periods of time during the last four years where I had a very slight defecit, I'm thinking close to a around maybe a 100 calorie defecit. I was losing measurements but very slowly. I needed a rest at times during my 2 & 3/4 year weight loss so I'd eat closer to maintenance for my sanity.

I'll go over my stats. It's a pity myfitnesspal only keeps records from the past couple of years. My records from 2011 are gone. Hmmm actually I did keep some records on my computer at times. I'll see what I can find.

Hey check out the maintenance group! There is 144 pages of good info there. A lot of talk about TDEE and people maintaining and still losing weight/and or measurements.

Kim55555

RunRutheeRun wrote: »

Thanks Kim for your comment. I know you're right,

I've looked at progress pics of mine from last summer and I see from them that despite me being similar weight to then I am more leaner, 

back fat almost entirely gone, my hips look leaner (they are where I am inclined to look really curvy), my thighs are alot leaner. 

I'm lean all over (apart from the mum tum!) yet I'm the same weight give or take a few lbs. 

Your welcome!  :)

That's awesome!! Good work!! 

Kim55555

skinny4me2be wrote: »

Calories eaten + (lbs lost * 3500) / # of days
Or
Calories eaten - (lbs gained * 3500) / # of days

To get your actual TDEE

Let's say I ate 58000 calories in 31 days and Lost 4lbs

58000+ (4 * 3500) / 31 = 2323 TDEE

I need help. I can't seem to get the maths to work.

I ate 74, 905 calories from May 15 - June 15 and put on 4.6 lbs (2 kg's)

How much is my TDEE using that formula? Thanks!

skinny4me2be

@Kim55555‌

Ok. I found the thread I spoke of yesterday plus another one that helps explain what I was trying to demo above. Read through these. It does get a bit confusing with everyone's different opinions but hopefully it will help.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1141259/what-is-your-actual-tdee/p1

and here is another one, this one is a bit more confusing, but other people in the thread have ideas on how to calculate it too.

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/778729/figure-your-actual-tdee-without-a-calculator/p1

ok...so from what I understand from the threads above,
you ate 74905 during a 31 day period and gained 4.6lbs.

4.6lbs x 3500= 16100 calories extra you ate during that time period.

74905 - (16100) / 31 = 1897 or round up approx. 1900 was your actual TDEE at the time.

According to that thread you TDEE goes down as you lose weight. I myself have noticed mine has changed from month to month as well. Were you losing inches? Did you lose fat? Lifting weights? New work out?
If you log your food in MFP, you can get a report of calories eaten over a time period-I think.

Here is a another spreadsheet I use (Yes, I’m a geek and have two) . Its written by a member of the name Heybales. You’ll see him comment in some of the threads above.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Amt7QBR9-c6MdGVTbGswLUUzUHNVVUlNSW9wZWloeUE

Kim55555

Thanks!

wow 1900 sounds pretty low. I have a feeling though those formulas don't take into account the amount of muscle I have and athletic body type I have and the heavy heavy exercise I do. My resting metabolic rate was retested and was 1500 at the time. I was lifting really heavy too so maybe I put on some muscle during my 9 month bulk.

I'm losing cm's and scale weight at a good pace in the past 8 weeks eating in the low 1900's so 1900 can't be my TDEE. I guess I'll find out for sure when I start my maintenance for real. I'll make sure I keep good records including what sort of NEAT activity & exercise intensity I'm following.

Thanks for the links too, it'll be interesting reading. Hmmm maybe I need to take the full 9 months bulking stats and see what the calculators estimate what my TDEE was. I wonder what that would reveal.

skinny4me2be

Here is another good TDEE path to read:

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/994554/tdee-for-beginners

I just saw this comment on another area as well where they were talking about what type of device to get to figure out the TDEE (maintenance level) for one self:
Best device to accurately determine your tdee is to log every calorie as accurately as possible (weighing and measureing, not estimating). After four weeks, add up your total calorie consumption. If you lost weight, multiply the pounds lost by 3500 and add that to the total to determine your tdee. If you gained weight, multiply the pounds lost by 3500 and subtract that from the total to determine you tdee.

Hope this helps!

Kim55555

Cool thanks for the link! 

TDEE = 2,251

So from Nov 17 - Dec 17 I averaged 1941 calories which is a 14 % defecit from 2251 calories. I'd like to get closer to 1900 calorie average which is an approx 16 % deficit.

It's weird though that the less you lose the lower your TDEE becomes. If I had only lost say 1 lb in that month then my TDEE worked out at 2053, but I know for a fact I would and can eat much higher than that and still lose fat. I don't think it takes into account muscle mass/LBM.

Anyway ill take it with a grain of salt! It's a good way to get an estimate though. The true test will be when I've stabilised at maintenance, stopped losing scale weight but continue to recomp and lose cm's & body fat % !

KathleenKP

Hi ladies -

I've been reading, and am intrigued by your results. But I feel that I tried this, and it didn't work for me. Can you offer advice based on what has worked for you? It seems like you are a bit ahead of me on what you have figured out for your process.

I lost about 85 pounds, and began training for triathons. I finished a half-iron plus some other tris this past summer. After a year of dedicated training, I began gaining weight while eating the same base calorie that I had lost on immediately before. I suspected that I had ruined my metabolism by under-eating and completing hours of exercise every day (avg 2.5 hours/day). So, after the half-iron, I began upping my calories at about 100/week, but I didn't increase it every week. I did this for 3-1/2 months, trying to be patient with the process and not to quit too early. I gained weight, especially at the end. I started at 1400 cal/day (plus additional exercise calories), and in the end was eating at 2100 cal/day goal, gaining weight the whole time (*especially* at the end).

I'm currently 185 pounds (about 84kg), which is 17 pounds heavier than my low, which I held for 6 month before gaining. (My process has been almost 3 years total now, which included a 9 month plateau where I held nearly steady after the first 50 pounds, and before dropping more weight/beginning running/starting triathlon training.)

I'm just shy of 5'4" and in my mid 40's. I've been BodPod tested three times. At the end of my half-iron, I was 32% BF, which was higher than the 27% BF in the beginning of my tri training. Not only did I gain weight during all that training, but my BF went UP. (I was lifting weights during my training, too. I really like lifting weight.) BodPod results are that my basal rate is 2300+ cal/day, and a minimum of 3,000 cal/day with the amount of activity I usually do. As you can see, I was gaining quite a bit of weight eating at much less than that.

So I think that I had ruined my metabolism. I gave it a shot to start increasing my calories (slowly), but after 3.5 months and a sharp upturn in weight gain at the end. I'm at 1150 goal/day now, plus eat additional exercise calories - but usually eating about 1900-2400 total, especially on the days that I work out. And...I'm STILL gaining weight. When I dropped to the 1150, I lost some weight, but I've put it right back on, despite eating at the lower amount.

I am in the "off-season" and working out now much less over the last four months than I did for the 1.5 years before that. I have a couple rest days/week, and most days I work out are between 1.5-2.5 hours. It's intentional, and I plan to increase my activity again in the spring.

For exercise calories, I use a heart-rate-monitor, and have it set to "lifetime athlete" (AKA "I'm really efficient and I don't burn as many calories.")

I have a hard time knowing exactly where my weight is at b/c I have large daily fluctuations in water retention (it's a cardiac issue, work with my doctor), but I have a general idea and can see trends.

I use a digital scale, and I've checked it with pharmaceutical weights. It's spot on, to the gram. I am getting my food measured correctly.

I feel like I'm on a crazy wheel that I never was on before I finally lost this weight. I'm always chasing what to do to fix this. I am considering going to an MD who specializes in metabolism. I am afriad I will end up giving up and gaining back all that I have lost - or that I will gain it back even if I haven't given up - which is where I feel that I am right now - still struggling and logging and working out, yet gaining weight.

Kim55555

Hi @KathleenKP

When you upped your calories did you continue the same level and amount of exercise each time?

Have you kept stats of the calories you have eaten & amount of exercise during those time periods? 

Haybales would be a good person to pose this question too.

I might not be the right person though. I have figured out my cutting sweet spot but I have yet to be able to stabilise at maintenance but I think I'm figuring out where I have gone wrong and pretty much know what needs to be done to get the job done now.

The first time I started maintenance I continued to exercise pretty much the same amount of time  and intensity levels but overrate by around 500 > TDEE so my intake was way too high causing me to put on 1 kg per month. I tried to stop eating so much as I could see I was gaining but my appetite was going bezerk and couldn't stop so I just did a bulk cycle instead.

My second attempt at maintenance coincided with my rib injury. My exercise wasn't at the same high level of intensity and I didnt devote the same amount of time to it and (a double whammy) on top of that I didn't track my calories, so the combo of less exercise and more food meant I put on weight and again I got back up to 66 kg.

In the past I have found success if I log my calories on mfp. This act of tracking keeps me accountable!  If I am accountable for my actions then I am also equally as accountable with my exercise.  So If my exercise falls away along with tracking my food on mfp falls away too and vice versa. When one falls away there's a strong chance the other falls away too. And it's not like I was eating crazily. All it would take was 1 extra snack at night, and cutting back to half the amount of exercise and voila you have put on 1 kg in a month.

Hope this has helped

skinny4me2be

KathleenKP wrote: »

Hi ladies -

I've been reading, and am intrigued by your results. But I feel that I tried this, and it didn't work for me. Can you offer advice based on what has worked for you? It seems like you are a bit ahead of me on what you have figured out for your process.

I lost about 85 pounds, and began training for triathons. I finished a half-iron plus some other tris this past summer. After a year of dedicated training, I began gaining weight while eating the same base calorie that I had lost on immediately before. I suspected that I had ruined my metabolism by under-eating and completing hours of exercise every day (avg 2.5 hours/day). So, after the half-iron, I began upping my calories at about 100/week, but I didn't increase it every week. I did this for 3-1/2 months, trying to be patient with the process and not to quit too early. I gained weight, especially at the end. I started at 1400 cal/day (plus additional exercise calories), and in the end was eating at 2100 cal/day goal, gaining weight the whole time (*especially* at the end).

I'm currently 185 pounds (about 84kg), which is 17 pounds heavier than my low, which I held for 6 month before gaining. (My process has been almost 3 years total now, which included a 9 month plateau where I held nearly steady after the first 50 pounds, and before dropping more weight/beginning running/starting triathlon training.)

I'm just shy of 5'4" and in my mid 40's. I've been BodPod tested three times. At the end of my half-iron, I was 32% BF, which was higher than the 27% BF in the beginning of my tri training. Not only did I gain weight during all that training, but my BF went UP. (I was lifting weights during my training, too. I really like lifting weight.) BodPod results are that my basal rate is 2300+ cal/day, and a minimum of 3,000 cal/day with the amount of activity I usually do. As you can see, I was gaining quite a bit of weight eating at much less than that.

So I think that I had ruined my metabolism. I gave it a shot to start increasing my calories (slowly), but after 3.5 months and a sharp upturn in weight gain at the end. I'm at 1150 goal/day now, plus eat additional exercise calories - but usually eating about 1900-2400 total, especially on the days that I work out. And...I'm STILL gaining weight. When I dropped to the 1150, I lost some weight, but I've put it right back on, despite eating at the lower amount.

I am in the "off-season" and working out now much less over the last four months than I did for the 1.5 years before that. I have a couple rest days/week, and most days I work out are between 1.5-2.5 hours. It's intentional, and I plan to increase my activity again in the spring.

For exercise calories, I use a heart-rate-monitor, and have it set to "lifetime athlete" (AKA "I'm really efficient and I don't burn as many calories.")

I have a hard time knowing exactly where my weight is at b/c I have large daily fluctuations in water retention (it's a cardiac issue, work with my doctor), but I have a general idea and can see trends.

I use a digital scale, and I've checked it with pharmaceutical weights. It's spot on, to the gram. I am getting my food measured correctly.

I feel like I'm on a crazy wheel that I never was on before I finally lost this weight. I'm always chasing what to do to fix this. I am considering going to an MD who specializes in metabolism. I am afriad I will end up giving up and gaining back all that I have lost - or that I will gain it back even if I haven't given up - which is where I feel that I am right now - still struggling and logging and working out, yet gaining weight.

Hi KathleenKP!!!

I agree, with Kim55555, if you can talk to Heybales or get some type of input from him, that may help you ( check out the Eat More to Weigh Less group on here
--Heybales is on there). But from what I read above correct, if you burn 3000 cals a day and your eating 1900 -2400, you may potentially may not be eating enough, especially if eating on the lower end... Eating 1150 a day...my two cents is too low. Do you use a fitbit or anything like that? Or have you tried using the spreadsheet Heybales has in his profile? Fill that out and see what that suggests?

All I know from my experience is that I had to give it time. I was in a vicious cycle of eating so much less, then increasing, then decreasing... I never gave it snuff time or trusted the process, and I had a hard time believing my fitbit or Heybales spreadshhet. I gave myself one month to try to eat at advice given to me and it took time, but the weight did start to go downward.

Not sure if that was of much help but we are here for you to cheer you on and bounce ideas off of!!! Best of luck!!!