Let the bloodbath begin....

jcstanton

does anyone else feel like this is going in circles?

There's something you and I totally agree on. These threads always go in circles, but they get hard to ignore because they stay at the top of the list for hours/days on end.

It's a shame, because there really are a ton of threads on MFP that have helped me and I'm sure have helped others, but then I get sucked into a thread like this a want to never come back to the forums again.

I think the reason some of these threads go in circles is because many people only half read the arguments from the other side. They're convinced they're right, so it doesn't matter to them whether or not their opponent has a valid point or not. Not to mention, the snarky, condescending remarks that only fuel the fire. It makes me SOOOO angry when I have to repeat myself because the person(s) with whom I'm debating aren't listening to a word I'm saying.

jwshmoe75

My problem is the ripping into other people...

I couldn't care less about logging chores or not. I do not log them, I count them as part of my daily activity but if someone else logs them because they feel they worked up a sweat what do I care...

really, it's their journey and only they really know how hard they work.

Lauren
[EXACTLY!!!!! ]

Kara_xxx

I'm here because it's hilarious, I'm an anthropologist who can't tear herself away from this melee,

It's ingroup-outgroup behaviour at its very basic.

jwshmoe75

My problem is the ripping into other people...

I couldn't care less about logging chores or not. I do not log them, I count them as part of my daily activity but if someone else logs them because they feel they worked up a sweat what do I care...

really, it's their journey and only they really know how hard they work.

Lauren

EXACTLY!!!

k8blujay2

The problem isn't people giving opinions... it's people giving unsolicited opinions that is annoying....

Wow. There was me thinking it's an open forum for the purpose of information exchange (which naturally involves a degree of "opinion" although some people like to think their opinion is fact) and an invitation wasn't required?

Again, when a person is asking HOW to do something, that is not the place to debate, insert opinions outside of the actual query, and/or bash the person for wanting to do it.... it's rude and disrespectful... If you (in general) want to debate on whether someone SHOULD do it... then either find the bajillion threads that have already been made to beat that dead horse, or create a new one.... If someone wants opinions on whether they should do it, they will ask. Being an open forum does not mean that people have the right to be disrespectful and rude.

Saiklor

I always thought that threads often grew way too fast to be fed by people actually thinking about and responding to the comments in any thorough way. This thread is such a great example of that.

Shall we start a NEW thread that summarizes this one and begins an actual debate on one or more of the topics raised in here?
ideas include....
- when is exercise not part of a daily routine/when is it part of a daily routine
- what are the effects of people posting forum threads and you reading them? how does it affect you? can you pickup bad habits this way?
- what is the difference between "criticism" and "debate"
- other ideas?

Kara_xxx

I think the reason some of these threads go in circles is because many people only half read the arguments from the other side. They're convinced they're right, so it doesn't matter to them whether or not their opponent has a valid point or not. Not to mention, the snarky, condescending remarks that only fuel the fire. It makes me SOOOO angry when I have to repeat myself because the person(s) with whom I'm debating aren't listening to a word I'm saying.

So you think that by repeating the information you're somehow contributing to people magically changing their minds?

Other people have repeated themselves and yet you haven't changed your position?

Why do you think your stand point is any more valid than that of the people you're frustrated with for not coming round to your way of thinking?

Wonderob

so since going to the gym and exercising has become part of my daily routine for the past 5 months does that mean i should no longer consider that as physical activity?

There is a clear and widely accepted definition of low intensity workout - one that raises your heart rate to 60% - 65% of maximu.

If you go down the gym and chat and read a magazine and your heart rate doesn't reach that level then no - don't count it

If you reach or exceed that level then it counts as exercise

In my opinion that goes for chores too - If I wash the dishes my heart rate isn't going up! If I'm digging a pool in the garden then it is going up!

MissFit0101

I read these threads purely for entertainment.

DavPul

does anyone else feel like this is going in circles?

It always does... it's the internet... where the debates never stop and people feel the need to debate and insert an opinion, even if it wasn't asked for...

Kate, I don't recall asking for you to weigh in on this....j/k

bcattoes

From the Harvard School of Public Health
SOURCE: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/staying-active/

...
Getting any amount of exercise is better than none. The more you get, though, the better. But don't feel locked into running or walking. A lot of activities count as exercise: dancing, skating, gardening, cycling, scrubbing floors, washing the car by hand, playing with kids. Anything that gets you moving, really.
...

Saiklor

entertainment AND educational!

I wonder if I could use these 2 threads as teaching tools the next time I'm talking about behaviour and the internet in an anthropology 1001 class.....

Kara_xxx

There is a clear and widely accepted definition of low intensity workout - one that raises your heart rate to 60% - 65% of maximu.
If you go down the gym and chat and read a magazine and your heart rate doesn't reach that level then no - don't count it
If you reach or exceed that level then it counts as exercise

So I can log "looking at my phone bill" as exercise?

jenbooks

In my opinion that goes for chores too - If I wash the dishes my heart rate isn't going up!

Mine is - out of pure aggravation that the husband left milk in the bottom of a glass *again*! :sad: :laugh:

jcstanton

There is a big difference between chores today and 50 year ago

Today
I walk 5 steps to turn up the thermostat
I brush my permanent epoxy varnished wooden floor
I grab the plank and run it through my Italian industrial saw
(lol today I use a hand mower or a scythe) - but most people have power mowers
I use a chain saw to cut down a tree


When I was a kid
I put a coat on, waked to the back shed, took an axe and chopped up pieces of coal, lit a fire inside and shivered for an hour before it was warm
I got on my hands and knees and hand waxed and buffed my wooden floor
I took a hand saw to cut a plank
I cut the grass with a hand mower
I chopped trees down with an axe

AGAIN, for the umpteenth time: I DON'T (nor do, I think, most of the people defending chore logging) log:

I walk 5 steps to turn up the thermostat
I brush my permanent epoxy varnished wooden floor
I grab the plank and run it through my Italian industrial saw
(lol today I use a hand mower or a scythe) - but most people have power mowers
I use a chain saw to cut down a tree

I DO log:

Once per week, top to bottom, strenuous housecleaning such as, scrubbing floors, scrubbing tub/shower, vacuuming including under the furniture (which requires some heavy lifting) and scrubbing the base boards, climbing ladders to clean the ceiling fans, scrubbing windows (which also requires climbing a step ladder), etc...

Once per week mowing my lawn with a NONself-propelled push mower, and other strenuous gardening chores that I don't do every day.

k8blujay2

does anyone else feel like this is going in circles?

It always does... it's the internet... where the debates never stop and people feel the need to debate and insert an opinion, even if it wasn't asked for...

Kate, I don't recall asking for you to weigh in on this....j/k

Perhaps I should ask the OP of the comment if it's ok... In my opinion, opinions are fine... just when they are respectful...

Wonderob

There is a clear and widely accepted definition of low intensity workout - one that raises your heart rate to 60% - 65% of maximu.
If you go down the gym and chat and read a magazine and your heart rate doesn't reach that level then no - don't count it
If you reach or exceed that level then it counts as exercise

So I can log "looking at my phone bill" as exercise?

And watching George Clooney films!

HannahDiaz25

I really don't log chores and stuff because I would rather come in low then high on my intake. Just personal preference. If you are looking to gain/ maintain perhaps logging daily activities out side of working out makes sense. I just like the buffer, it gives me a wider margin of error should I miscalculate the amount of food I'm eating or overestimate the calories burned in a work out. I'm not trying to "cheat" the system by earning more calories then I should because in the long run it only me that hurts from it. :frown:

sculley

I think it depends on what your BMR is and what your eating normally because just for me to sit on my butt and do nothing I need close to 1500 calories.... So I am only eating 1500 calories a day so honestly yesterday when I cleaned my bathroom on my hands and knees for 45 minutes that's almost 200 calories that 150 less than one of my daily workouts so in my case I am counting it all....They say to count every calorie no matter how significant it is that goes in your mouth...So if you are sedetary or eating a bare minimum of calories (some peoples case its 1200) why can't you.?

To me each is their own you have people that run marathons then maybe house cleaning is insigificant to them but DON'T down those that might only be able to clean as an exercise at least that person is actively trying.

I understand people will say that we shouldnt feel a little bothered because our diary and stuff is public. I just think it's sad...this site is to SUPPORT each other....What good does it do anyone to ridicule what they deem active it's not hurting them and it's not like they are counting the calories they burn by eating....I just think some people just don't know when to keep their mouth shut.

Basically bottom line if it's working for you awesome and congrats and keep doing what your doing...I know it works for me to date I have lost a total of almost 100lbs since my first son was born (60lbs after my oldest and then many years later I have lost 40lbs after my second)

Kara_xxx

There is a clear and widely accepted definition of low intensity workout - one that raises your heart rate to 60% - 65% of maximu.
If you go down the gym and chat and read a magazine and your heart rate doesn't reach that level then no - don't count it
If you reach or exceed that level then it counts as exercise

So I can log "looking at my phone bill" as exercise?

And watching George Clooney films!

Excellent!!!! I have an old "ER" box set somewhere. It'll be an endurance session! :drinker:

k8blujay2

In my opinion that goes for chores too - If I wash the dishes my heart rate isn't going up!

Mine is - out of pure aggravation that the husband left milk in the bottom of a glass *again*! :sad: :laugh:

Buahaha!!! Yes! Or the treasure hunt I must do to FIND the dishes... all the extra steps I must take, all the lifting, pulling and pushing.... hmmm... I think I should monitor that and see how many calories I burn....

k8blujay2

it's just that as far as I can tell, everything from the last 3-4 pages was already discussed, both in this thread and in the other (now locked/defunct) thread.

so....why are we all doing this still?

I'm here because it's hilarious, I'm an anthropologist who can't tear herself away from this melee, and because I do feel some need to make sure people don't REALLY crap on me (too much).

why is everyone else still here??

I'm here because I'm bored at work.... and need to look like I'm working while I'm dancing at my desk.... I wonder if I should log that... opinions are warranted.

mandylooo

it's just that as far as I can tell, everything from the last 3-4 pages was already discussed, both in this thread and in the other (now locked/defunct) thread.

so....why are we all doing this still?

I'm here because it's hilarious, I'm an anthropologist who can't tear herself away from this melee, and because I do feel some need to make sure people don't REALLY crap on me (too much).

why is everyone else still here??

It's the "someone is wrong on the internet" thing. We can't help ourselves. I haven't read the whole thread by the way, i just liked your "going round in circles comment". I wonder how many people change their opinions as a result of these debates? I know there are a number of things I have modified my mindset on, maybe because I've learned a bit more.

ETA: re. changing opinions - not this thread imparticular

Wonderob

It's the "someone is wrong on the internet" thing. We can't help ourselves. I haven't read the whole thread by the way, i just liked your "going round in circles comment". I wonder how many people change their opinions as a result of these debates? I know there are a number of things I have modified my mindset on, maybe because I've learned a bit more.

Depends how certain you are that you're right

If someone said that its ok to eat 10,000 calories a day so long as you consume no fat then no amount of debate will convince me that they're correct.

Previously I was sure that spreading my meals out throughout the day - little and often - would keep my metabolism high. This was a common piece of advice a while back

After many debates and opinions on here over the last 2 months I now accept that I was probably wrong and meal timing does not matter. i have been pointed towards convincing evidence to prove this. Still the debate goes on about that particular one (breakfast kickstarts the metabolism!!) I changed my mind so I'm sure others will too

jcstanton

I really don't log chores and stuff because I would rather come in low then high on my intake. Just personal preference. If you are looking to gain/ maintain perhaps logging daily activities out side of working out makes sense. I just like the buffer, it gives me a wider margin of error should I miscalculate the amount of food I'm eating or overestimate the calories burned in a work out. I'm not trying to "cheat" the system by earning more calories then I should because in the long run it only me that hurts from it. :frown:

I rarely eat back more than half of my exercise calories anyway, so that is not my motivation for logging activity. I just use it as a way to keep myself moving. I go by how many activities I have done (and how much time I have spent doing them), not how many calories I have burned doing said activities. I know from the get go that MFP overestimates calorie burns, and I don't have a HR monitor. Therefore, I know it would only hinder my progress to take the calorie burn MFP gives me into consideration. I don't mind people disagreeing with me about logging chores as exercise. It's the snarky, condescending remarks about it that get to me. As does continually having to repeat myself because some *kitten* didn't really take my perfectly valid point into consideration before making said snarky, condescending remark.

TyFit08

I really don't get how that affects your or hinder your journey. There are people here who swear they eat only fast food, others who eat clean, some who just walk, others who do crossfit, some with thyroid and PCOS. Everyone has their own journey and what works for one doesn't work for everyone. So if someone is logging their chores and that works for them, I don't see how that could stop you from losing weight. This site is for education and support. You take the information you need to help with your goals.

I have to respectfully disagree with this. I do agree that what someone else logs has nothing to do with me. It's their body and their business. But what they post in an open internet forum does effect me and others. If you see someone post information that you feel is blatantly wrong and perhaps harmful, it can be really hard to bite your tongue (fingertips?) and not type a response. The whole purpose of a open internet forum is to exchange ideas, and exchange means it goes both ways. It does affect me, because I look to get advice on this site and if someone posts something that's wrong I could waste time and money while risking my health at the same time.

If someone posted that the best way to lose weight is to only eat 400 calories per day or drink poison or take steroids, would you feel it's wrong to post a contrary response? Even if you don't really care what that person does, wouldn't you want to warn other people that clicked on that thread that this is terrible advice? If you had personal experience with lifting/running/crossfit/paleo/veganism wouldn't you want to share your experiences? ESPECIALLY if you feel someone said something that you felt was blatantly wrong?

Obviously people should not be rude or insulting. But just disagreeing doesn't make them rude.

You are correct that this is an open internet forum where ideas and opinions are exchanged, but it is up to you to exercise good judgement. None of us are experts and even those who say they are could be making it up for all we know since this is cyberspace. If someone says they lost weight doing something harmful and you followed suit that is no one's fault but your own for taking that person's experience at face value and not researching it further. If someone logs their chores whether it be daily or ever so often that is their choice and is not going to hinder my journey. My needs and goals are unique to me and while I do find the exchange of ideas informative at the end of the day I'm going to do what's best for me and if more people on MFP did the same they would exert less energy criticizing people who follow a different fitness plan than one they prescribed too.

bfitnbfab

Let's take the emotion of being a homebody vs. a career vs. younger vs. older out of this whole discussion.

Let's get scientific for a moment. The tab clearly says exercise and is broken down into cardio & strength training.

Exercise is defined as planned, structured, and progressive process by which a significant exertion is applied to stimulate a specific desired and positive bodily change.

Given that, I don't see how work around the house can be considered exercise. Walking the dog can qualify if there is significant exertion applied, obviously based upon your physical conditioning.

Work around the house can burn a great deal more calories and bring up your heart rate a lot higher than walking the dog. One poster mentioned their HRM showed an 1100 calorie burn for mowing her lawn. Another poster said 700 calories for giving the house a scrub down. So the physical exertion is there. I don't do a scrub down of my house daily, but when I do I sweat much more than I do from a half hour on the elliptical. Exercise has a very broad definition and does not have to be just want you do in the gym. Chores are included in the MFP database as well as other sites like Fitday. BTW Fitday also includes sex for exercise and you can log it based on length and intensity. Personally, I think MFP should follow suit.

The average person's definition of exercise is vague. But I don't see where mowing the lawn or scrubbing a house is progressive. I'm sure there are people that will argue that it's structured and planned.

If you sweat more doing house work than on an elliptical, then my observation would be that the intensity should be picked up on the elliptical.

BeSophisticate

I agree completely. If GARDENING, of all things, is exercies, then house cleaning is exercise, as well. Our need for gyms is more the result of so much automation. Cars, computers, telephones, dish washers, washing machines. . .everything that makes our lifestyle what it is is destroying our health. My rule of thumb is that if I use a machine to accomplish it, it doesn't count as exercies (rototillers and push mowers are notable exceptions). If I have to do it "the old fashioned way," then it's fair game as exercise. Doing the dishes, for example: with dishwasher - not exercise; by hand - (very) light exercise.

Further more, just like most people believe they eat less than they do, most people belive they are more active than they really are. If they are logging all of their physicial activity, perhaps this is the first step to gaining a clear picture of their activity level. It makes an obvious and dramatic difference when logging food. Why not expand that to include physicial activity. You've got to start somewhere.

meshashesha2012

so since going to the gym and exercising has become part of my daily routine for the past 5 months does that mean i should no longer consider that as physical activity?

There is a clear and widely accepted definition of low intensity workout - one that raises your heart rate to 60% - 65% of maximu.

If you go down the gym and chat and read a magazine and your heart rate doesn't reach that level then no - don't count it

If you reach or exceed that level then it counts as exercise

In my opinion that goes for chores too - If I wash the dishes my heart rate isn't going up! If I'm digging a pool in the garden then it is going up!

this is how i see it as well. washing dishes is a no, but (on the admittedly rare occassions) where i get possessed my grandmother and get on my hands and knees and scrub the floor with a scrub brush, that most definitely counts as work :laugh:

TyFit08

Let's take the emotion of being a homebody vs. a career vs. younger vs. older out of this whole discussion.

Let's get scientific for a moment. The tab clearly says exercise and is broken down into cardio & strength training.

Exercise is defined as planned, structured, and progressive process by which a significant exertion is applied to stimulate a specific desired and positive bodily change.

Given that, I don't see how work around the house can be considered exercise. Walking the dog can qualify if there is significant exertion applied, obviously based upon your physical conditioning.

Work around the house can burn a great deal more calories and bring up your heart rate a lot higher than walking the dog. One poster mentioned their HRM showed an 1100 calorie burn for mowing her lawn. Another poster said 700 calories for giving the house a scrub down. So the physical exertion is there. I don't do a scrub down of my house daily, but when I do I sweat much more than I do from a half hour on the elliptical. Exercise has a very broad definition and does not have to be just want you do in the gym. Chores are included in the MFP database as well as other sites like Fitday. BTW Fitday also includes sex for exercise and you can log it based on length and intensity. Personally, I think MFP should follow suit.

The average person's definition of exercise is vague. But I don't see where mowing the lawn or scrubbing a house is progressive. I'm sure there are people that will argue that it's structured and planned.

If you sweat more doing house work than on an elliptical, then my observation would be that the intensity should be picked up on the elliptical.

Based on your observation, It seems that you don't do any housework