Where is the science!

dimoul

I hear you, Wonderob! You echoed my frustration.

greasygriddle_wechnage

Question; why is it not getting “easier to diet” as our society evolves?
Answer; because we are becoming more and more into self gratification (food) and convenience (lazy).

Wonderob

OP, do you have any idea of how ridiculously complex the human body is, particularly when it's viewed in the context of its individual environment. The variables are practically infinite.

Of course - but I refer back to one of the questions that I see on MFP daily

Does eating breakfast boost your metabolism? There is sure to be a definitive answer that would apply to virtually everyone would there not?

Yet opinions are split. If it doesn't then the sceptic in me says that the multi billion dollar breakfast food industry are behind this falsification

If it does then I want to see a bit of scientific proof

Why would it apply to everyone equally? Is your diet exactly the same as mine? Do you sleep the same amount of time as I do? Is your hormone balance the same as mine

It applies to (almost) everybody equally because in this instance, the factors that you stated are irrelavent. Breakfast will or will not boost your metabolism bcause our bodies will work the same way regardless of our diet and sleeping patterns.

adblanche

I'm not trying to be a downer, because I've struggled with my weight my entire life.

But your idea that there is a "definitive" answer means that you fundamentally don't understand the scientific process. Anyone who works in the science will tell you that almost everything you've learned as 'fact' (even about things like physics) are our best guesses based on extensive experiments that have been done. But that by no means precludes us from discovering new things about the universe. [See: the discovery of sub-atomic particles]

So, there is no "answer". Gather your own knowledge about what works for you in your life and stick to it!

Wonderob

Sooo... watch what you eat and exercise. Bam! you cracked the code.

Not really - whilst watching what you eat and exercsing are likely to result in satisfactory weight loss. Other factors such as meal times, amount of meals, minimum daily calories, different macros etc COULD make a bit of difference and might make the weight loss quicker or healthier or give better longevity etc

To me those 'additional factors are interesting and I would like to know about them, but ultimately as I don't have a major weight problem, not critical

Whereas to lots of people who do have a problem, these could be very important

TheVimFuego

Sooo... watch what you eat and exercise. Bam! you cracked the code.

Not really - whilst watching what you eat and exercsing are likely to result in satisfactory weight loss. Other factors such as meal times, amount of meals, minimum daily calories, different macros etc COULD make a bit of difference and might make the weight loss quicker or healthier or give better longevity etc

To me those 'additional factors are interesting and I would like to know about them, but ultimately as I don't have a major weight problem, not critical

Whereas to lots of people who do have a problem, these could be very important

Absofrackinglutely

And some people who are outwardly skinny but are having undiagnosed excess internal fat and metabolic issues could also benefit.

Sort it out from the lowest level has to be the plan

Wonderob

I'm not trying to be a downer, because I've struggled with my weight my entire life.

But your idea that there is a "definitive" answer means that you fundamentally don't understand the scientific process. Anyone who works in the science will tell you that almost everything you've learned as 'fact' (even about things like physics) are our best guesses based on extensive experiments that have been done. But that by no means precludes us from discovering new things about the universe. [See: the discovery of sub-atomic particles]

So, there is no "answer". Gather your own knowledge about what works for you in your life and stick to it!

It's not for me, I don't suffer with my weight to any great degree. I'm wondering what society could do to help those that do

I disagree that there is not a definitive answer to some of these quandaries. The scientific process is pretty robust so can tell us what affect alchol can have on our bodies, what smoking will do, what too much sugar will do to our teeth.... it can also tell us whether or not eating late at night will hinder weight loss

My point is that I suspect this information is lost amongst the myriad of money making dieting info out there

bcattoes

Of course - but I refer back to one of the questions that I see on MFP daily

Does eating breakfast boost your metabolism? There is sure to be a definitive answer that would apply to virtually everyone would there not?

The definitive answer for everyone is "yes". Eating boosts metabolism so eating breakfast boosts your metabolism. It doesn't "kick start" it because in order to start something, that something has to have stopped. And metabolism only stops when you are dead, making it difficult to eat breakfast.

The amount of the boost is not significant and depends more on what you eat than on when you eat.

econut2000

We need an indisputable list - not from Jenny Craig, not from Jillian Michaels, not from Shaun T, not from Tony Horton - they all have their own agenda!

who do think should provide you with this list? I really dont understand your point unless maybe you've had a few pints

It was a long post so I understand why you didn't read it all

"we need to be told these things once and for all by an impartial, unbiased organisation with the sole agenda of telling the facts!"

Governments, World Health Organisation, United Nations, Universities, National Health Service ....

First off, I'm a scientist (not a food scientist). The shameful secret of scientists (not within the community, we all know it) but to "lay" people is that we don't know all the answers either!! I myself have published papers that have contradicted all the other published work on my particular subject. That is why you hear "chocolate is good for you today" on the news and tomorrow it might be bad. Food science is constantly researching and learning, but they absolutely do not have all the answers. Food is far more complicated than you might think!

Second, I'm not trying to be a conspiracy theorist here it's not my thing, but I can tell you that the government, WHO, NIH....the people in power gain $$ by "us" trying different diets and gimmicks. It's also lobbied by the people who run places like McD, Entemann's, Lay's potato chips, Jenny Craig, etc.....

What does this boil down to???? First off you'll NEVER get any government official telling you anything other than what is on the food pyramid (and lobbyists have vied for spots for their particular food group on the pyramid) and EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT!!!! LOL!!!

The answer is do your own research. Find out what works FOR YOU. MFP calculations are a starting point but they aren't the final answer. They too need to be adjusted for your own body and, as you well know, they don't tell you WHAT to eat. Read, read, read. Michael Pollan's books are excellent - they aren't on "dieting" but they are on the human "diet". Read The China Study - once again, not on "dieting" but compares long-term regional differences in eating culture in Asian countries versus health and longevity - most people on this site would be shocked at the results. Don't just read the 3 sentance news blips in Prevention or on the Today show and take it on face value - they handpick the pieces of the studies that they want you to know.

Good luck!!!

Wonderob

.the reason people still debate these things is because they are prepared to believe anything without doing their own investigations.

Here are some links if anyone wants to start out

Meal Frequency
http://www.leangains.com/2011/04/critique-of-issn-position-stand-on-meal.html

God herein lies the problem!

i am NOT lazy and I am prepared to do the research! But how do we know what is true?

The first article that you link is a very interesting article about how one seemingly informed and reliable source (a nutritional consultant, magazine writer and personal trainer) is completely opposing another seemingly informed and reliable source (The International Society of Sports Nutrition) with regard to meal frequency!

You see my problem here!

Loulady

I dunno - like I said, it seems you've found what is "true." You just want definitive studies about body chemistry and metabolism?

Wonderob

The definitive answer for everyone is "yes". Eating boosts metabolism so eating breakfast boosts your metabolism.

No YOUR definitive answer is yes
Somebody elses on here is No

I don't know, my wife doesn't know, half the people on MFP don't know

Thats my point. If breakfast DOES boost your metabolism, then it's a standard fact that virtually everyone agrees upon and there can no longer be any debate over it such as for example ... erm, obesity increases your chance of diabetes - truth is that it isn't a standard fact yet as there is still plenty of debate over it

ArroganceInStep

You have a monthly budget:
$2000 for basic living expenses that can't be changed or reduced
$5000 for porn, strippers, hookers, and blow
$2 for a pack of gum once a week


What you're doing is quibbling over your gum allowance.

Wonderob

I dunno - like I said, it seems you've found what is "true." You just want definitive studies about body chemistry and metabolism?

I don't know what's true - I change my mind depending on who or what sounds most likely at the time!

Definitive studies must already have been done Im sure

Loulady

Lovely analogy rtalencar85! :-)

Wonderob

You have a monthly budget:
$2000 for basic living expenses that can't be changed or reduced
$5000 for porn, strippers, hookers, and blow
$2 for a pack of gum once a week


What you're doing is quibbling over your gum allowance.

That's relavent if my $2 gum allowance over time has a significant impact upon my $5000 essentials allowance

i.e If it turns out that by chnaging my gum buying habits I could have got myself a much better $5001 hooker than the skanky $5000 hooker I was paying for, I would be right miffed

Just as if I had eaten breakfast I could maybe have eaten an extra cake every day and still lost the same amount of weight

ArroganceInStep

That's relavent if my $2 gum allowance over time has a significant impact upon my $5000 essentials allowance

i.e If it turns out that by chnaging my gum buying habits I could have got myself a much better $5001 hooker than the skanky $5000 hooker I was paying for, I would be right miffed

Just as if I had eaten breakfast I could maybe have eaten an extra cake every day and still lost the same amount of weight

Either you missed my point entirely or you're really reaching...

Wonderob

That's relavent if my $2 gum allowance over time has a significant impact upon my $5000 essentials allowance

i.e If it turns out that by chnaging my gum buying habits I could have got myself a much better $5001 hooker than the skanky $5000 hooker I was paying for, I would be right miffed

Just as if I had eaten breakfast I could maybe have eaten an extra cake every day and still lost the same amount of weight

Either you missed my point entirely or you're really reaching...

Well I took it to mean that the main principles of weight loss are 99% of the battle whilst, whilst meal timings, metabolism boosts, fat burning zones etc make up the other 1%,

Melanie_RS

Your last sentence sums up the entire problem, my friend. The most important word.....sell.

Yep - we're fighting against a multi billion dollar industry

And sadly, science sells too. It's best to just tune into your body, we've made it this far in the grand sscheme of things, don't doubt yourself. If it doesn't feel right, it's probably not.

bcattoes

The definitive answer for everyone is "yes". Eating boosts metabolism so eating breakfast boosts your metabolism.

No YOUR definitive answer is yes
Somebody elses on here is No

I don't know, my wife doesn't know, half the people on MFP don't know

Thats my point. If breakfast DOES boost your metabolism, then it's a standard fact that virtually everyone agrees upon and there can no longer be any debate over it such as for example ... erm, obesity increases your chance of diabetes - truth is that it isn't a standard fact yet as there is still plenty of debate over it

You can 'debate' a fact all you want but it doesn't change the fact. It just makes the person debating against the fact wrong. Theories and hypothoses are debatable. Facts are facts.