Cardio makes you fat: "Women: Running into Trouble"

crisanderson27

Jynus, do you run? how far, and how often?

Depends on context. I used to play competitive sports. At my peak I played national level Ultimate and trained/played about 20hours a week with craptons of cardio as the sport is just pure running. Did that for 2 years, and a good few before that with a few hours a week playing other cardio based sports like soccer. I never ran for fun or for time, or competed with running. it was always for training so I honestly have no idea how far, or what my times would be then. It was always ok, 20 min jog, go, and just do that before moving onto other training.

Now my last year of Ulti, I started doing weight training. I found a jump training template that had strength components and hit the gym to improve my performance. After I retired from Ulti to have time for life, I kept going to the gym to remain active. I went much more frequently and exercised a lot more intensely as I had the time and rest for it since I didn't want to bother with sports anymore. End result was after cutting out 20 hours of cardio a week and replacing it with about 6 hours of weight training, I shed a crapton of fat and recomped my body to the point where I just looked drastically different. I always looked athletic before, but had a much more olympic sprinter like look to me afterwards and had a 6pack for first time ever. That was a wakeup call for me about training methodologies and results from them. (assuming diet is in check)

I did spend a couple years actually doing personal training too, and have all my basic certs. And with my sports background and training as a profession, for study I would honestly say I've spent hundreds of hours reading studies and articles on fitness and health, and spent thousands of hours working with people on forums much like this, or in real life training with people. So I do have a bit of a background.

Interesting timing on your question however. I can say this though, I've always wanted to make the point where I do what I say, and made it a point to not do ANY cardio in my training, and have held true to that for the last 2 years. I wanted to show that you can gain and lose, faster and better, all without cardio. However over last weekend, a friend wanted to go for a jog and I said why the hell not. We didn't time it, but it was 3km. And I got through it without any trouble, 1 1min walking break or so though. my freaking legs were itchy as hell though, lol. 2 years not doing cardio prob has a few bugs to work out. I actually plan on taking 1 day a week now just for running. My son is 4, and loves to be outside, and is always wanting to race and do active things. I'll make it a father/son thing to go for a lil jog as much as we can and be active together doing whatever.

k, theres your essay on my background.

edit: the post right above mine is basically a mirror image of my experiences, but in reverse. the link does seem to be excessive/competitive cardio. Might be something to that rather than joe average just doing a few hours a week on the treadmill trying to drop a few pounds.

So, in short, no, you don't run....

That's really all you had to say, Jynus.

What a pathetically rude...not to mention unnecessary comment.

Well, yes, it was a bit rude of him to go on at length like that, and not simply answer my quite succinctly framed question. But I didn't want to comment on it. I'm nice like that, you see.

Rude...AND too self centered to accept it being pointed out with grace.

Bravo!!

wackyfunster

I agree with both thier statement and your conclusion. Metabolic weight training is essentially "cardio" in nature. This "weight training can give you the same benefit as cardio." in what you wrote is what I was responding to. Thanks for pointing out what you meant. I appreciate it.

No problem. I should have looked "metabolic weight training" up before my first post. On the other hand, Wackyfunster has posted again and does seem to be saying that they get cardiovascular benefit from weight training:

I currently only lift (career+family+newborn+side projects = can't spare more than 3 hrs/week to work out), and am around 50 rhr now. You may not be lifting enough to see the benefits. My overweight power lifter former boss has a rhr in the 40's and was told he has the heart of a 20 year-old. You need to lift enough that you hit 100% HRM, which is way easier than it sounds.

Maybe Wackyfunster can elaborate? Can you get the same cardiovascular benefit from doing basically anaerobic lifting or are you doing a type of lifting that involves more of a cardiovascular workout?

I wouldn't say the exact same level of benefit... someone who specializes in cardio endurance will have better cardio endurance than someone who does not. I think that for the level of fitness most people are going for, weights will suffice. E.g. when I was finishing my last cut, I did a week of low carb, and could do 10 mins HIIT (190+ heart rate peak) + 40 minutes of 150bpm steady state cardio + 10 minutes of HIIT without dying (while 16 hours fasted as well... yes, I there probably is something wrong with me), which IMO is better than most "cardio" people. Low carb+16 hours fasting+cardio = insanely hard btw. I can also complete 'insanity' although it is pretty brutally rough (I push myself hard, so my average heart rate last time I did it was around 185), and when I started it, that was the only cardio I had done in a couple of years, so obviously doing only weight training isn't as bad for your cardiovascular health as commonly believed.

OTOH my marathoner friends can do stuff that would probably kill me, e.g. I have a coworker who regularly rides ~150 miles on his bike (he commutes like ~25 miles every day on it as well)... he can't do a body-weight push-up though, which is kinda funny. I won't be completing an iron man any time soon. I seriously doubt that many of the cardio proponents here would either though... props to anyone with that kind of dedication.

I currently do mostly anaerobic "Power-lifting" style lifts. Previously I have done a lot of circuit training type stuff with a 30 second rest between sets. Both seem to provide a different set of benefits (circuit training seems better for endurance, power-lifting has dropped my blood pressure and resting heart rate more... that is purely anecdotal though). I normally lift in the 6-12RM range, and push very hard psychologically (I think this is the biggest hurdle most people have to overcome with weight training... you can move a lot more weight than you think you can if you are in the right state of mind!).

My lifestyle is definitely 'sedentary', other than the ~3 hours/week of weights that I do, so I don't think that's a factor.

I really don't have a problem with cardio... my main problem is that for the goal of most people on this site, it is a much less than optimal strategy as the primary form of exercise.

Toxictwist

Whatever. I'm still doing Couch to 5K because it makes me feel good.

^ This

meerkat70

Jynus, do you run? how far, and how often?

Depends on context. I used to play competitive sports. At my peak I played national level Ultimate and trained/played about 20hours a week with craptons of cardio as the sport is just pure running. Did that for 2 years, and a good few before that with a few hours a week playing other cardio based sports like soccer. I never ran for fun or for time, or competed with running. it was always for training so I honestly have no idea how far, or what my times would be then. It was always ok, 20 min jog, go, and just do that before moving onto other training.

Now my last year of Ulti, I started doing weight training. I found a jump training template that had strength components and hit the gym to improve my performance. After I retired from Ulti to have time for life, I kept going to the gym to remain active. I went much more frequently and exercised a lot more intensely as I had the time and rest for it since I didn't want to bother with sports anymore. End result was after cutting out 20 hours of cardio a week and replacing it with about 6 hours of weight training, I shed a crapton of fat and recomped my body to the point where I just looked drastically different. I always looked athletic before, but had a much more olympic sprinter like look to me afterwards and had a 6pack for first time ever. That was a wakeup call for me about training methodologies and results from them. (assuming diet is in check)

I did spend a couple years actually doing personal training too, and have all my basic certs. And with my sports background and training as a profession, for study I would honestly say I've spent hundreds of hours reading studies and articles on fitness and health, and spent thousands of hours working with people on forums much like this, or in real life training with people. So I do have a bit of a background.

Interesting timing on your question however. I can say this though, I've always wanted to make the point where I do what I say, and made it a point to not do ANY cardio in my training, and have held true to that for the last 2 years. I wanted to show that you can gain and lose, faster and better, all without cardio. However over last weekend, a friend wanted to go for a jog and I said why the hell not. We didn't time it, but it was 3km. And I got through it without any trouble, 1 1min walking break or so though. my freaking legs were itchy as hell though, lol. 2 years not doing cardio prob has a few bugs to work out. I actually plan on taking 1 day a week now just for running. My son is 4, and loves to be outside, and is always wanting to race and do active things. I'll make it a father/son thing to go for a lil jog as much as we can and be active together doing whatever.

k, theres your essay on my background.

edit: the post right above mine is basically a mirror image of my experiences, but in reverse. the link does seem to be excessive/competitive cardio. Might be something to that rather than joe average just doing a few hours a week on the treadmill trying to drop a few pounds.

So, in short, no, you don't run....

That's really all you had to say, Jynus.

What a pathetically rude...not to mention unnecessary comment.

Well, yes, it was a bit rude of him to go on at length like that, and not simply answer my quite succinctly framed question. But I didn't want to comment on it. I'm nice like that, you see.

Rude...AND too self centered to accept it being pointed out with grace.

Bravo!!

OK, I'll bite. Quite how is it 'rude' to point out that someone who clearly has no running experience *has no running experience*?

I think perhaps we operate with different understandings of what's rude, and what's just pointing out a neat bit of sidestepping on the part of a poster who doesn't want to admit they don't *really* know much about what they're talking about?

meerkat70

Oh and Cris, I didn't see you getting bent out of shape over the same poster calling everyone who didn't immediately agree with his genius 'stupid'?

So yeah... different understandings of the term 'rude'....

gogojodee

lol - wow. I have NO idea what to say. Ha.

As far as someone's T3 turning back to normal for the Cardio Queens - yeah, explain that to someone with Hashimoto's which is an auto-immune disease which is the causation of hypothyroidism in those individuals.

gxm17

lol - wow. I have NO idea what to say. Ha.

As far as someone's T3 turning back to normal for the Cardio Queens - yeah, explain that to someone with Hashimoto's which is an auto-immune disease which is the causation of hypothyroidism in those individuals.

Thank you, gogojodee! There's no "turning back to normal" for us Hashi's folks.

crisanderson27

OK, I'll bite. Quite how is it 'rude' to point out that someone who clearly has no running experience *has no running experience*?

I think perhaps we operate with different understandings of what's rude, and what's just pointing out a neat bit of sidestepping on the part of a poster who doesn't want to admit they don't *really* know much about what they're talking about?

I don't know...years of sports involving massive amounts of running might be considered running experience...or maybe you believe it's crocheting experience?

/shrug

Additionally, that's not what I considered rude. Your commentary sarcastically dismissing his post, while indicating that his efforts to try to give his overall background in an attempt to answer both your question, and clarify his overall position, were a complete waste of his time was what I considered rude.

Oh and Cris, I didn't see you getting bent out of shape over the same poster calling everyone who didn't immediately agree with his genius 'stupid'?

So yeah... different understandings of the term 'rude'....

I didn't get bent out of shape over the comment you mention, because prior to that, there was more than one comment indicating that anyone who doesn't run on a daily basis is basically an idiot. Additionally, there has also been more than one comment suggesting that people who don't enjoy running (or cardio in general of course) go around suggesting there is no benefit to cardio at all, which is completely untrue. I even glanced through this thread again, and still couldn't find one person who said there was no overall benefit to cardio. You runners just seem to take offense at the fact that cardio IS unnecessary in the overall scheme of things when fat loss is the main goal. You become snippy, sarcastic, and the elitist 'runner' attitude comes out like a foul smell.

So yeah, at that point I kind of felt it was deserved.

Oh, by the way...I'd like to mention that I far preferred your last two responses to your first. I don't know if you thought you were being funny with your mock attempt to deflect my commentary towards Jynus or what...but it came across as pure childishness. To the point that I fully expected your next reply to me to be 'I know you are but what am I?!'.

Thanks for changing the direction of that...it's very much appreciated.

Jynus

OK, I'll bite. Quite how is it 'rude' to point out that someone who clearly has no running experience *has no running experience*?

I think perhaps we operate with different understandings of what's rude, and what's just pointing out a neat bit of sidestepping on the part of a poster who doesn't want to admit they don't *really* know much about what they're talking about?

I don't know...years of sports involving massive amounts of running might be considered running experience...or maybe you believe it's crocheting experience?

/shrug

Additionally, that's not what I considered rude. Your commentary sarcastically dismissing his post, while indicating that his efforts to try to give his overall background in an attempt to answer both your question, and clarify his overall position, were a complete waste of his time was what I considered rude.

Oh and Cris, I didn't see you getting bent out of shape over the same poster calling everyone who didn't immediately agree with his genius 'stupid'?

So yeah... different understandings of the term 'rude'....

I didn't get bent out of shape over the comment you mention, because prior to that, there was more than one comment indicating that anyone who doesn't run on a daily basis is basically an idiot. Additionally, there has also been more than one comment suggesting that people who don't enjoy running (or cardio in general of course) go around suggesting there is no benefit to cardio at all, which is completely untrue. I even glanced through this thread again, and still couldn't find one person who said there was no overall benefit to cardio. You runners just seem to take offense at the fact that cardio IS unnecessary in the overall scheme of things when fat loss is the main goal. You become snippy, sarcastic, and the elitist 'runner' attitude comes out like a foul smell.

So yeah, at that point I kind of felt it was deserved.

Oh, by the way...I'd like to mention that I far preferred your last two responses to your first. I don't know if you thought you were being funny with your mock attempt to deflect my commentary towards Jynus or what...but it came across as pure childishness. To the point that I fully expected your next reply to me to be 'I know you are but what am I?!'.

Thanks for changing the direction of that...it's very much appreciated.

thank you. This sums ups my thoughts on the subject far better and much more eloquently than I could possibly put into words. I don't think I have EVER said cardio is bad for you, nor have I ever seen anyone else. I'm a full proponent that cardio has value and should be done. My position has always been however that cardio is unnecessary is your goal is fat loss. (fat loss != health) And in fact gives worse results for fat loss compared to other training methodologies. as I first accidently discovered based upon my own training experiences, and then had affirmed through my profession while training.

Do cardio cause you like to do it? sure. Cause it has health benefits? sure. Cause it's your sport? Well dur. Cause it boosts fat loss? Nope, not buying it.

wackyfunster

lol - wow. I have NO idea what to say. Ha.

As far as someone's T3 turning back to normal for the Cardio Queens - yeah, explain that to someone with Hashimoto's which is an auto-immune disease which is the causation of hypothyroidism in those individuals.

That's true, but you should be taking thyroid hormone replacements to get your levels back to normal. Perpetually low thyroid hormone levels is insanely bad for your health.

I have a friend with Hashimoto's who started on an IF+resistance training regimen, and he's been getting great results with that, if that helps.

crisanderson27

lol - wow. I have NO idea what to say. Ha.

As far as someone's T3 turning back to normal for the Cardio Queens - yeah, explain that to someone with Hashimoto's which is an auto-immune disease which is the causation of hypothyroidism in those individuals.

That's true, but you should be taking thyroid hormone replacements to get your levels back to normal. Perpetually low thyroid hormone levels is insanely bad for your health.

I have a friend with Hashimoto's who started on an IF+resistance training regimen, and he's been getting great results with that, if that helps.

It's sort of funny how many issues IF/Resistance training seems to help and or work well with.

TheNewo

um...I agree that lifting weights should be an integral part of any one's fat loss program (man or woman)
but the title "Cardio makes you fat"? Pure sensationalism. Shennanigans!!!!

thelovelyLIZ

I think running is great for weight loss and healthy, but only to an extent. I was losing really easily when I started running, because I was typically not running more than 30 minutes a few times a week. I've since started training for a half marathon, which is exciting, but I've found my weight loss has slowed, and I may have put back on a couple pounds. Part of it may also be the my eating hasn't been top notch either, but it's REALLY HARD to eat back 600+ calories from my long runs. And sure running has given me great leg strength, but I've founding other things, specifically strength training, to be just as important.

So basically, long distance running isn't really conducive to weight loss, and you need more than just cardio to get to toned and fit looking.

wackyfunster

lol - wow. I have NO idea what to say. Ha.

As far as someone's T3 turning back to normal for the Cardio Queens - yeah, explain that to someone with Hashimoto's which is an auto-immune disease which is the causation of hypothyroidism in those individuals.

That's true, but you should be taking thyroid hormone replacements to get your levels back to normal. Perpetually low thyroid hormone levels is insanely bad for your health.

I have a friend with Hashimoto's who started on an IF+resistance training regimen, and he's been getting great results with that, if that helps.

It's sort of funny how many issues IF/Resistance training seems to help and or work well with.

IF is freaking magical. A lot of the current research on life extension suggests a HUGE boost to lifespan and reduction in senescence and age-related disorders as a result of fasting. Growth hormone levels after 20 hours fasted are >10x baseline, massive upregulation of FOXO occurs (which is probably responsible for the extended lifespan, reduction in cancer rates, etc.)... also, getting to eat huge 1600-2000 calorie meals and stay ripped is amazing.

Also, I am insanely busy for most of the day, and not having to eat for 16-22 hours is insanely helpful.

You can't spell LIFE without IF! :PPPP

crisanderson27

lol - wow. I have NO idea what to say. Ha.

As far as someone's T3 turning back to normal for the Cardio Queens - yeah, explain that to someone with Hashimoto's which is an auto-immune disease which is the causation of hypothyroidism in those individuals.

That's true, but you should be taking thyroid hormone replacements to get your levels back to normal. Perpetually low thyroid hormone levels is insanely bad for your health.

I have a friend with Hashimoto's who started on an IF+resistance training regimen, and he's been getting great results with that, if that helps.

It's sort of funny how many issues IF/Resistance training seems to help and or work well with.

IF is freaking magical. A lot of the current research on life extension suggests a HUGE boost to lifespan and reduction in senescence and age-related disorders as a result of fasting. Growth hormone levels after 20 hours fasted are >10x baseline, massive upregulation of FOXO occurs (which is probably responsible for the extended lifespan, reduction in cancer rates, etc.)... also, getting to eat huge 1600-2000 calorie meals and stay ripped is amazing.

Also, I am insanely busy for most of the day, and not having to eat for 16-22 hours is insanely helpful.

You can't spell LIFE without IF! :PPPP

Haha...you sound sooooo much like me here, it's almost funny!

wackyfunster

Haha...you sound sooooo much like me here, it's almost funny!

Great minds and all that :P

MoreBean13

Haha...you sound sooooo much like me here, it's almost funny!

Great minds and all that :P

Do you two need a room?

crisanderson27

Haha...you sound sooooo much like me here, it's almost funny!

Great minds and all that :P

Do you two need a room?

Wanna referee?

Ok...wait...that was wrong on sooo many levels lol.

MoreBean13

Haha...you sound sooooo much like me here, it's almost funny!

Great minds and all that :P

Do you two need a room?

Wanna referee?

Ok...wait...that was wrong on sooo many levels lol.

LOL - in the true sense, started laughing out loud to myself. Thanks!

roodledoodle

Have you ever seen a fat marathon runner? (Man or woman that has been doing this for years) I call BS.

Exactly my thought!