The Food Industry and Obesity

M1ssBehave

bump, gotta keep reading this after my lunch break...
lol

chanson104

I swear, you'd think this was a religious forum the way everyone tries to push their agenda and beliefs onto other people. Seriously, just replace a few words here and there, and you have the same zealotry as on any christian, atheist, muslim, etc... forum.

Is whole food better? I don't know, and can't tell you. It seems like both sides of the debate go out of their ways to cloud up the facts, because they're trying to get one over on the other guy.

Sadly, unless the world population is drastically reduced... and I mean drastically... factory farming is here to stay. There just aren't enough mom and pop farmers to support the amount of people that are already here.

In closing... (I learned that in the persuasive writing unit of English in high school :bigsmile: ) why don't we just quit arguing about it? No one is going to convince the other person that is dead set in their beliefs that their way is better.

At this point, I almost think you guys are deliberately trolling, because you want to argue.

But ya know what? Who's fault is this really? I mean, if you are an individual trying to educate yourself on ANYTHING now days you are immediately labeled "conspiracy nut", "tin foil hat wearer" etc. As someone who worked for the (absolutely insidious, greedy, criminal) pharma industry, I know first hand that THE number one priority of large corporations is stock price - period.

That's fine - I accept that - but the zealotry you speak of is created by these companies - not by individuals who are looking to educate themselves, improve their lives or the lives of those they love and care about. I honestly could care less if anyone changes their mind because of my posts on here - the reason I choose to share is because I have the freedom to do so and because I do not feel that all of the information being put out here is accurate or at the very least un-biased.

If people feel that commercially produced, processed food is fine and healthy - then I say have at it, gorge yourself on Soda, Hot Pockets, pink slime burgers and Ring Dings... I know that I have eliminated 85 percent of this stuff from my diet and the results are non debatable to me - my weight is down lower than it ever has been, my strength and fitness are the highest they have ever been, I am mentally sharper and more focused - I have more energy.

I intend to support my local food producers and small markets because they are members of the community where I live - not some multinational food conglomerate who's only concern is their share price. They produce great products for me and my family that increase our health and vitality and I want that to continue.

Whatever your opinion - educate yourself to the facts on both sides - responsible large companies who produce good products and market them honestly certainly should exist in our society along with small independents. If educating yourself means you are a "tin foil hat wearer" then give me some polish so I can shine mine up! Peace

BTW - what is the origin of Tin Foil Hat wearer anyway? Isn't that like a UFO thing?

Well said. :drinker:

No matter what research says, and you can certainly find research that supports anything, no one can argue with what works for each person individually. Do what works for you.

yarwell

you can certainly find research that supports anything

Nonsense. Find me the research paper that supports the notion that water flows uphill unaided.

tigersword

Do Gravity Hills count?

Septlondon

Is whole food better? I don't know, and can't tell you. It seems like both sides of the debate go out of their ways to cloud up the facts, because they're trying to get one over on the other guy.

I will say that it is better, however..............

Sadly, unless the world population is drastically reduced... and I mean drastically... factory farming is here to stay. There just aren't enough mom and pop farmers to support the amount of people that are already here.

You hit the nail on the head here! You know how many starving people there are that would be glad to eat a processed pizza?

In closing... (I learned that in the persuasive writing unit of English in high school :bigsmile: ) why don't we just quit arguing about it? No one is going to convince the other person that is dead set in their beliefs that their way is better.

We debate it because there will be some that will read it that may be stuck on the fence.
I am part of the fitness industry, but despise a lot about it. Lots of "broscience" is still hanging around even in the face of actual peer reviewed clinical study that totally debunks some of what is being stated by it. So personally I like to debate it because I am on the other side, but with a more practical view.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Septlondon

Is whole food better? I don't know, and can't tell you. It seems like both sides of the debate go out of their ways to cloud up the facts, because they're trying to get one over on the other guy.

I will say that it is better, however..............

Sadly, unless the world population is drastically reduced... and I mean drastically... factory farming is here to stay. There just aren't enough mom and pop farmers to support the amount of people that are already here.

You hit the nail on the head here! You know how many starving people there are that would be glad to eat a processed pizza?

In closing... (I learned that in the persuasive writing unit of English in high school :bigsmile: ) why don't we just quit arguing about it? No one is going to convince the other person that is dead set in their beliefs that their way is better.

We debate it because there will be some that will read it that may be stuck on the fence.
I am part of the fitness industry, but despise a lot about it. Lots of "broscience" is still hanging around even in the face of actual peer reviewed clinical study that totally debunks some of what is being stated by it. So personally I like to debate it because I am on the other side, but with a more practical view.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

So...in your 28 years in the fitness 'industry' you have seen an improvement in the health of the general population? I wonder why you get so angry with people who are just trying to help themselves. I wish your way worked for everybody, but it just doesn't.

ctooch99

Jack Lalanne used to say 60 years ago and up until he died at age 96.
IF MAN MAKES IT, DON'T EAT IT
And that is the ideal I strive toward while making allowances for treats and just living life.
I eat that way 70% of the time.
Good Enough :bigsmile:

THIS!!!

"If man makes it, don't eat it." That means no protein powder, omega-3 supplements, multi-vitamins, bottled oils, seasoning blends, hot sauces, teas, coffees... there are a lot of great man-made foods.

Jack's other mantra was "If it tastes good, don't eat it." And he didn't! I wouldn't want to live to 96 under his conditions. 3 hours a day in the gym, eating nothing but egg whites, fish and produce, no sugar since 1929. He wasn't really that good of a role model.

'Processing' can correlate to 'nutritionally less dense' but it's not always so. I process the hell out of green smoothies in my blender. It removes/adds nothing.

I just read in a book that the world population exploded after the discovery/invention of ammonium nitrate as a fertilizer. It's something man makes, right? Without it, we'd be scrounging for potatoes and suffering famines. Well, we wouldn't be here because the population would never have exploded. Hunger would've stopped it. Not all industrial food production is bad.

All fair points but I think you took LaLane's quote out of context. Technically all food is man made (or at least man-touched). I don't think anyone is suggesting we should all go out and pull our own food out of the ground (although some folks could make the point this is the healthiest way to go) - But are you suggesting there is no difference between a Twinkie and an apple with regard to one's health??? I would challenge that.

I don't think processing in this context has anything to do with nutritional density. "Processed food" to me means the difference between eating an apple and eating apple flavored "natural" cereal. Two totally different animals...

ctooch99

I swear, you'd think this was a religious forum the way everyone tries to push their agenda and beliefs onto other people. Seriously, just replace a few words here and there, and you have the same zealotry as on any christian, atheist, muslim, etc... forum.

Is whole food better? I don't know, and can't tell you. It seems like both sides of the debate go out of their ways to cloud up the facts, because they're trying to get one over on the other guy.

Sadly, unless the world population is drastically reduced... and I mean drastically... factory farming is here to stay. There just aren't enough mom and pop farmers to support the amount of people that are already here.

In closing... (I learned that in the persuasive writing unit of English in high school :bigsmile: ) why don't we just quit arguing about it? No one is going to convince the other person that is dead set in their beliefs that their way is better.

At this point, I almost think you guys are deliberately trolling, because you want to argue.

If people feel that commercially produced, processed food is fine and healthy - then I say have at it, gorge yourself on Soda, Hot Pockets, pink slime burgers and Ring Dings... I know that I have eliminated 85 percent of this stuff from my diet and the results are non debatable to me - my weight is down lower than it ever has been, my strength and fitness are the highest they have ever been, I am mentally sharper and more focused - I have more energy.

Because it's definitely an all or nothing situation. You're either a clean eater or you're stuffing yourself with junk.

The olive oil I cooked my eggs in this morning, processed. The piece of toast, processed. The butter on that toast, processed. The salad dressing, cheddar cheese and greek yogurt I had with lunch, processed. And call me crazy, but I like not having to churn my own butter and squeeze out my own olive oil. Just because something is processed does not make it a nutritional nightmare.

Not sure I follow - I don't think anyone suggested that all processed food is evil (although granted some people feel that way) - But I think comparing Olive Oil made by the likes of a small brand like the Cento food company to GMO modified Franken-foods like those grown from big Agra seeds is comparing apples and oranges.

I don't want to churn my own butter either, but I would rather (at least try to) buy it from a small local dairy producer who does not load it up with preservatives and garbage while supporting my local business community. How is this unrealistic, "radical" or anti American? Why would you rather support a multinational, commercial agra, business who wants to produce the cheapest, lowest quality food in the fastest way possible (including using controversial genetic science) with no regard to its effects on the health of you are your family and has no concern about American family farms or the communities that surround them.

I don't really get the debate - it seems like a no-brainer to me. I am really surprised that so many people claiming to be health conscious on this site are so blindly trusting of the government and the food industry. What have either of these done to earn your blind trust with regard to the food you put in your body?

ninerbuff

So...in your 28 years in the fitness 'industry' you have seen an improvement in the health of the general population? I wonder why you get so angry with people who are just trying to help themselves. I wish your way worked for everybody, but it just doesn't.

I don't get angry with people trying to help themselves, I get angry at how people get TRICKED into thinking there is only a certain way to do it.
Fitness industry states things like "Eat breakfast to boost your metabolism", "Don't eat after 7pm" (general population that works 9-5), "Functional training will strengthen your core better than ab exercises", etc. All have been scientifically studied and debunked. And don't get me started on the "toned" terminology!:laugh:
If I wanted to, I could totally correlate that technology is the cause of obesity today. Since technology has advanced so fast and only in the last 30 years or so (which coincides with the raise in weight and obesity) then it is logical to assume this. So why can't this be used? Because technology has increased ALL over the world at the same pace. Not to mention that alot of the same foods we have here in the US are available to many other countries, yet we here in the US have one of the highest obesity rates in the world. So is it just the food? Or is it the lifestyle?
IMO, it's a combination of both.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

All fair points but I think you took LaLane's quote out of context. Technically all food is man made (or at least man-touched). I don't think anyone is suggesting we should all go out and pull our own food out of the ground (although some folks could make the point this is the healthiest way to go) - But are you suggesting there is no difference between a Twinkie and an apple with regard to one's health??? I would challenge that.

I don't think processing in this context has anything to do with nutritional density. "Processed food" to me means the difference between eating an apple and eating apple flavored "natural" cereal. Two totally different animals...

Just to be fair, would you choose eating a lot lentils over a protein shake after a workout?

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

tigersword

Jack Lalanne used to say 60 years ago and up until he died at age 96.
IF MAN MAKES IT, DON'T EAT IT
And that is the ideal I strive toward while making allowances for treats and just living life.
I eat that way 70% of the time.
Good Enough :bigsmile:

THIS!!!

"If man makes it, don't eat it." That means no protein powder, omega-3 supplements, multi-vitamins, bottled oils, seasoning blends, hot sauces, teas, coffees... there are a lot of great man-made foods.

Jack's other mantra was "If it tastes good, don't eat it." And he didn't! I wouldn't want to live to 96 under his conditions. 3 hours a day in the gym, eating nothing but egg whites, fish and produce, no sugar since 1929. He wasn't really that good of a role model.

'Processing' can correlate to 'nutritionally less dense' but it's not always so. I process the hell out of green smoothies in my blender. It removes/adds nothing.

I just read in a book that the world population exploded after the discovery/invention of ammonium nitrate as a fertilizer. It's something man makes, right? Without it, we'd be scrounging for potatoes and suffering famines. Well, we wouldn't be here because the population would never have exploded. Hunger would've stopped it. Not all industrial food production is bad.

All fair points but I think you took LaLane's quote out of context. Technically all food is man made (or at least man-touched). I don't think anyone is suggesting we should all go out and pull our own food out of the ground (although some folks could make the point this is the healthiest way to go) - But are you suggesting there is no difference between a Twinkie and an apple with regard to one's health??? I would challenge that.

I don't think processing in this context has anything to do with nutritional density. "Processed food" to me means the difference between eating an apple and eating apple flavored "natural" cereal. Two totally different animals...

If you have reached your macro and micronutrient goals, and have the available calories left over, then no, there is no difference between a Twinkie and an apple for a snack, from a health standpoint. The problems come in when people don't meet their nutrition goals, not because they decided to have a sweet snack. "Healthy" and "unhealthy" are all about total context.

Septlondon

So...in your 28 years in the fitness 'industry' you have seen an improvement in the health of the general population? I wonder why you get so angry with people who are just trying to help themselves. I wish your way worked for everybody, but it just doesn't.

I don't get angry with people trying to help themselves, I get angry at how people get TRICKED into thinking there is only a certain way to do it.
Fitness industry states things like "Eat breakfast to boost your metabolism", "Don't eat after 7pm" (general population that works 9-5), "Functional training will strengthen your core better than ab exercises", etc. All have been scientifically studied and debunked. And don't get me started on the "toned" terminology!:laugh:
If I wanted to, I could totally correlate that technology is the cause of obesity today. Since technology has advanced so fast and only in the last 30 years or so (which coincides with the raise in weight and obesity) then it is logical to assume this. So why can't this be used? Because technology has increased ALL over the world at the same pace. Not to mention that alot of the same foods we have here in the US are available to many other countries, yet we here in the US have one of the highest obesity rates in the world. So is it just the food? Or is it the lifestyle?
IMO, it's a combination of both.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Thanks for your reply. I guess we agree about a lot. Food and lifestyle is the problem, and no one size fits all 'cure' is the answer. Oh, and being healthy is worth a bit of effort.

weathergirl320

I swear, you'd think this was a religious forum the way everyone tries to push their agenda and beliefs onto other people. Seriously, just replace a few words here and there, and you have the same zealotry as on any christian, atheist, muslim, etc... forum.

Is whole food better? I don't know, and can't tell you. It seems like both sides of the debate go out of their ways to cloud up the facts, because they're trying to get one over on the other guy.

Sadly, unless the world population is drastically reduced... and I mean drastically... factory farming is here to stay. There just aren't enough mom and pop farmers to support the amount of people that are already here.

In closing... (I learned that in the persuasive writing unit of English in high school :bigsmile: ) why don't we just quit arguing about it? No one is going to convince the other person that is dead set in their beliefs that their way is better.

At this point, I almost think you guys are deliberately trolling, because you want to argue.

If people feel that commercially produced, processed food is fine and healthy - then I say have at it, gorge yourself on Soda, Hot Pockets, pink slime burgers and Ring Dings... I know that I have eliminated 85 percent of this stuff from my diet and the results are non debatable to me - my weight is down lower than it ever has been, my strength and fitness are the highest they have ever been, I am mentally sharper and more focused - I have more energy.

Because it's definitely an all or nothing situation. You're either a clean eater or you're stuffing yourself with junk.

The olive oil I cooked my eggs in this morning, processed. The piece of toast, processed. The butter on that toast, processed. The salad dressing, cheddar cheese and greek yogurt I had with lunch, processed. And call me crazy, but I like not having to churn my own butter and squeeze out my own olive oil. Just because something is processed does not make it a nutritional nightmare.

Not sure I follow - I don't think anyone suggested that all processed food is evil (although granted some people feel that way) - But I think comparing Olive Oil made by the likes of a small brand like the Cento food company to GMO modified Franken-foods like those grown from big Agra seeds is comparing apples and oranges.

I don't want to churn my own butter either, but I would rather (at least try to) buy it from a small local dairy producer who does not load it up with preservatives and garbage while supporting my local business community. How is this unrealistic, "radical" or anti American? Why would you rather support a multinational, commercial agra, business who wants to produce the cheapest, lowest quality food in the fastest way possible (including using controversial genetic science) with no regard to its effects on the health of you are your family and has no concern about American family farms or the communities that surround them.

I don't really get the debate - it seems like a no-brainer to me. I am really surprised that so many people claiming to be health conscious on this site are so blindly trusting of the government and the food industry. What have either of these done to earn your blind trust with regard to the food you put in your body?

I couldn't agree with you more. I was once of the mindset that food only came from the grocery store. I was totally disconnected with my food and where it came from. Then a light switched or something because I realized the importance of having access to fresh local foods. I now get my dairy and eggs from a local dairy. It's like straight out of the 20's with glass bottles lol and my veggies from the farmers market and my meat from the local farmers as well. I have changed my whole Outlook on food and health and my body thanks me for it. That's for sure. I too don't understand why there is debate. Whether or not gmo organic or quality food matters to you, why wouldn't you support your local farmers? And I was on the other side for a long time. Now I see i will never go back.

mcarter99

Just an interesting aside- I just read in a book yesterday that you can do more for the environment by having one beef/dairy free day a week than by eating 'local' your entire week. Not that environmental reasons are the only reasons to eat locally sourced food.

ericobrecht

Im not sure what your point is; and in any case, people with metabolic disorders- and are fat because of it- are rare. The general trend in obesity epidemic correlates with cheaper calories, not more metabolic/endocrine issues and disorders.

And please, if you are the doctor you say you are training to be, stick with the non-ancedotal, fact, science based examples.

By the way, most obese or overweight people do not consider themselves so; that compounds the problem it seems. And it also warms their hearts to "know" being fat was not their fault after all!

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/are-most-people-in-denial-about-their-weight/

tigersword

I swear, you'd think this was a religious forum the way everyone tries to push their agenda and beliefs onto other people. Seriously, just replace a few words here and there, and you have the same zealotry as on any christian, atheist, muslim, etc... forum.

Is whole food better? I don't know, and can't tell you. It seems like both sides of the debate go out of their ways to cloud up the facts, because they're trying to get one over on the other guy.

Sadly, unless the world population is drastically reduced... and I mean drastically... factory farming is here to stay. There just aren't enough mom and pop farmers to support the amount of people that are already here.

In closing... (I learned that in the persuasive writing unit of English in high school :bigsmile: ) why don't we just quit arguing about it? No one is going to convince the other person that is dead set in their beliefs that their way is better.

At this point, I almost think you guys are deliberately trolling, because you want to argue.

If people feel that commercially produced, processed food is fine and healthy - then I say have at it, gorge yourself on Soda, Hot Pockets, pink slime burgers and Ring Dings... I know that I have eliminated 85 percent of this stuff from my diet and the results are non debatable to me - my weight is down lower than it ever has been, my strength and fitness are the highest they have ever been, I am mentally sharper and more focused - I have more energy.

Because it's definitely an all or nothing situation. You're either a clean eater or you're stuffing yourself with junk.

The olive oil I cooked my eggs in this morning, processed. The piece of toast, processed. The butter on that toast, processed. The salad dressing, cheddar cheese and greek yogurt I had with lunch, processed. And call me crazy, but I like not having to churn my own butter and squeeze out my own olive oil. Just because something is processed does not make it a nutritional nightmare.

Not sure I follow - I don't think anyone suggested that all processed food is evil (although granted some people feel that way) - But I think comparing Olive Oil made by the likes of a small brand like the Cento food company to GMO modified Franken-foods like those grown from big Agra seeds is comparing apples and oranges.

I don't want to churn my own butter either, but I would rather (at least try to) buy it from a small local dairy producer who does not load it up with preservatives and garbage while supporting my local business community. How is this unrealistic, "radical" or anti American? Why would you rather support a multinational, commercial agra, business who wants to produce the cheapest, lowest quality food in the fastest way possible (including using controversial genetic science) with no regard to its effects on the health of you are your family and has no concern about American family farms or the communities that surround them.

I don't really get the debate - it seems like a no-brainer to me. I am really surprised that so many people claiming to be health conscious on this site are so blindly trusting of the government and the food industry. What have either of these done to earn your blind trust with regard to the food you put in your body?

I find it interesting that you mention Cento, and call them a small brand, when they are a multinational importer/distributer with about 6 or 7 separate brands. Much more comparable to big Agra than the family farm.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

Trolling? I've respectfully debated and disagreed. Please show me proof that what I've stated is WRONG according to SCIENTIFC STUDY. If not, then please hold your "opinion" to yourself. You can disagree too, but it has nothing to do with "flexing my ego muscle" as you state.

Wasn't my comment....

Regardless, yes, there are people debating(so far) and disagreeing inside this thread itself. My point is that the person that started this thread seems to be trolling... beating the dead horse... whatever you want to call it... by starting a thread that's been beat to death, over and over on these forums. I honestly think the creators of the threads dealing with this debate keep starting these threads because they want to stir up drama on the forums.

My intentions of starting this thread were NOT to stir up trouble.

It is called educating people. If I am able to reach just 1 person and they start changing to a more whole foods way of life, then posting this article worked for the greater common good of someone's health.

I will continue to post articles written by those Dieticians, Nutritionists and Dr's that believe in a more holistic and synergistic way of being and living.

Most people in this world are so out of balance it is a shame. I do personally believe that these food additives are addictive and a major cause of why people are unbalanced.

PaleoPath4Lyfe

Im not sure what your point is; and in any case, people with metabolic disorders- and are fat because of it- are rare. The general trend in obesity epidemic correlates with cheaper calories, not more metabolic/endocrine issues and disorders.

And please, if you are the doctor you say you are training to be, stick with the non-ancedotal, fact, science based examples.

By the way, most obese or overweight people do not consider themselves so; that compounds the problem it seems. And it also warms their hearts to "know" being fat was not their fault after all!

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/are-most-people-in-denial-about-their-weight/

No, it is not rare for people with metabolic disorders to be fat. if that were the case we would not have a raging epidemic of people with Type 2 Diabetes.

There are many people that are overweight because of health issues and they don't get treated due to a myriad of factors. lack of insurance being one of them.

And if you knew anything about holistic medicine, you would know that I am not spouting any antecdotal evidence. Many things I am learning come from the days of Hipprocrates, which modern medicine has gotten so far away from that it is a sad, sad shame.

I am getting back to this way of way for myself and for the future when I will be helping people that don't want conventional medicine to treat them.

There are very few things that we would need modern science for if people would go back to eating the way that it was intended for us to eat.

tigersword

There is NOT a "raging epidemic" of Type 2 Diabetes. 5% of the WORLD population have Type 2 Diabetes. 6% of the United States population has Type 2 Diabetes. The ridiculously inflated numbers stating two thirds of the country are diabetic are, quite frankly, false.

Septlondon

that 1% difference equates to over three million people