intermittent fasting critis
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there is an intermittent fasting group if you want to chat about it BTW
And I agree with Sidesteal. IF is not required for fat loss/muscle gain it's just a method that can work for people to adhere to their calorie/macronutrient targets easier (if they like larger meals).
What ****s me is people taking up IF with some strict "eating windows" and then complaining that they can't eat enough in that time frame.0 -
@JNick77 your right this is a support not a debate.Lmaol
The thread was framed as addressing 'critics' (well, 'critis'... ) of the practice. Perhaps if the OP had wanted a support thread, it would have been sensible to title it as such, rather than explicitly inviting critics to come and chat, and then feeling all offended when they did.
(That said, I was at pains to indicate I wasn't a 'critic' and didn't see an issue with the practice - didn't stop people from getting all huffy, though....)0 -
What's my *****es? We're still having a pissing match behind the validity and in-validity (word?) of IF?? Seriously, if you don't like IF then get out you don't have to believe in it to support the results that plenty of research has already done. This isn't a debate behind the effectiveness, this is a support thread for those using it, the plan has been proven already. You can say and think what you want but it's not relevant because there are results for support. Nuff said about that...IF is pointless unless it suits your lifestyle because of work, you like eating big meals, ect. In terms of body composition and health your results would be the same eating those same calories/macros throughout the day so.. its not going to make a difference in that aspect if thats the only reason you are doing it.
Actually if you read all the research behind it, there is added benefit to body composition with IF. Previously I worked with a pro-bodybuilder that also provides a nutrition service for 16-weeks and followed a small 6-day meal plan and lost the 10lbs I had plateaued trying to get past so there is validity in that method still as well. I will say this though, I feel more anabolic after I workout and eat my first meal, if that even makes sense have to experience it to understand it I guess, and even though the pounds aren't dropping as fast, though they are dropping, my body comp is rapidly improving. People can't believe how much I've changed in just two weeks. Keep in mind I wasn't that bad to begin with, bodyfat averaged around 11% before I started (10% - 12% was my typical range).I read that it wasn't, however, most of the tests were done on lab rats & post-menopause women with little data on females that are younger.
One of the authors that co-wrote Dr. Berardi's free guide on Intermittent Fasting was female.
It's a little hard to follow what you're saying here. But you may want to re-read my posts about the *actual* evidence base for this. You know, the stuff published in peer reviewed journals, rather than on the promotional sites.... The research clearly indicates it works *as well* as ordinary calorie restriction. No better. No worse. If it works for you, that's cool. Just don't make silly claims about it being vastly better for *everyone* (there's no evidence to support that pov) and be clear that claims around its capacity to extend life is based largely on animal studies.
Nobody has challenged the validity of the method. Just suggesting moderation regarding its claims.0 -
What's my *****es? We're still having a pissing match behind the validity and in-validity (word?) of IF?? Seriously, if you don't like IF then get out you don't have to believe in it to support the results that plenty of research has already done. This isn't a debate behind the effectiveness, this is a support thread for those using it, the plan has been proven already. You can say and think what you want but it's not relevant because there are results for support. Nuff said about that...IF is pointless unless it suits your lifestyle because of work, you like eating big meals, ect. In terms of body composition and health your results would be the same eating those same calories/macros throughout the day so.. its not going to make a difference in that aspect if thats the only reason you are doing it.
Actually if you read all the research behind it, there is added benefit to body composition with IF. Previously I worked with a pro-bodybuilder that also provides a nutrition service for 16-weeks and followed a small 6-day meal plan and lost the 10lbs I had plateaued trying to get past so there is validity in that method still as well. I will say this though, I feel more anabolic after I workout and eat my first meal, if that even makes sense have to experience it to understand it I guess, and even though the pounds aren't dropping as fast, though they are dropping, my body comp is rapidly improving. People can't believe how much I've changed in just two weeks. Keep in mind I wasn't that bad to begin with, bodyfat averaged around 11% before I started (10% - 12% was my typical range).I read that it wasn't, however, most of the tests were done on lab rats & post-menopause women with little data on females that are younger.
One of the authors that co-wrote Dr. Berardi's free guide on Intermittent Fasting was female.
It's a little hard to follow what you're saying here. But you may want to re-read my posts about the *actual* evidence base for this. You know, the stuff published in peer reviewed journals, rather than on the promotional sites.... The research clearly indicates it works *as well* as ordinary calorie restriction. No better. No worse. If it works for you, that's cool. Just don't make silly claims about it being vastly better for *everyone* (there's no evidence to support that pov) and be clear that claims around its capacity to extend life is based largely on animal studies.
Nobody has challenged the validity of the method. Just suggesting moderation regarding its claims.
I never said it was vastly better for anybody. Do you see that anywhere in my comments? I said it's just another method, a means to an end, that's it. I have read peer review; I just prefer Dr. Berardi's site because he has been somebody I've followed for almost 12 years now and I respect his work. One of my biggest compliments to Dr. Berardi is that it's very non-biased. If you actually read his work you'll see that.0 -
Berardi's piece on IF is pretty good just because of the fact that he was one of the guys saying you have to eat every 3hrs previously. (Also not to mix C&F together)0
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What's my *****es? We're still having a pissing match behind the validity and in-validity (word?) of IF?? Seriously, if you don't like IF then get out you don't have to believe in it to support the results that plenty of research has already done. This isn't a debate behind the effectiveness, this is a support thread for those using it, the plan has been proven already. You can say and think what you want but it's not relevant because there are results for support. Nuff said about that...IF is pointless unless it suits your lifestyle because of work, you like eating big meals, ect. In terms of body composition and health your results would be the same eating those same calories/macros throughout the day so.. its not going to make a difference in that aspect if thats the only reason you are doing it.
Actually if you read all the research behind it, there is added benefit to body composition with IF. Previously I worked with a pro-bodybuilder that also provides a nutrition service for 16-weeks and followed a small 6-day meal plan and lost the 10lbs I had plateaued trying to get past so there is validity in that method still as well. I will say this though, I feel more anabolic after I workout and eat my first meal, if that even makes sense have to experience it to understand it I guess, and even though the pounds aren't dropping as fast, though they are dropping, my body comp is rapidly improving. People can't believe how much I've changed in just two weeks. Keep in mind I wasn't that bad to begin with, bodyfat averaged around 11% before I started (10% - 12% was my typical range).I read that it wasn't, however, most of the tests were done on lab rats & post-menopause women with little data on females that are younger.
One of the authors that co-wrote Dr. Berardi's free guide on Intermittent Fasting was female.
It's a little hard to follow what you're saying here. But you may want to re-read my posts about the *actual* evidence base for this. You know, the stuff published in peer reviewed journals, rather than on the promotional sites.... The research clearly indicates it works *as well* as ordinary calorie restriction. No better. No worse. If it works for you, that's cool. Just don't make silly claims about it being vastly better for *everyone* (there's no evidence to support that pov) and be clear that claims around its capacity to extend life is based largely on animal studies.
Nobody has challenged the validity of the method. Just suggesting moderation regarding its claims.
I never said it was vastly better for anybody. Do you see that anywhere in my comments? I said it's just another method, a means to an end, that's it. I have read peer review; I just prefer Dr. Berardi's site because he has been somebody I've followed for almost 12 years now and I respect his work. One of my biggest compliments to Dr. Berardi is that it's very non-biased. If you actually read his work you'll see that.
First off it doesnt make a difference in terms of body composition if you decided to eat 6 small meals a day or 1 huge meal a day(with same calories/macros). also if you werent saying it was better and just another method and means to an end, what's your argument with me then? all I stated was that you would get the same results if you ate that throughout the day, however if you were doing it for lifestyle reasons instead of looking for more of a benefit in body composition then that's a different story.0 -
What's my *****es? We're still having a pissing match behind the validity and in-validity (word?) of IF?? Seriously, if you don't like IF then get out you don't have to believe in it to support the results that plenty of research has already done. This isn't a debate behind the effectiveness, this is a support thread for those using it, the plan has been proven already. You can say and think what you want but it's not relevant because there are results for support. Nuff said about that...IF is pointless unless it suits your lifestyle because of work, you like eating big meals, ect. In terms of body composition and health your results would be the same eating those same calories/macros throughout the day so.. its not going to make a difference in that aspect if thats the only reason you are doing it.
Actually if you read all the research behind it, there is added benefit to body composition with IF. Previously I worked with a pro-bodybuilder that also provides a nutrition service for 16-weeks and followed a small 6-day meal plan and lost the 10lbs I had plateaued trying to get past so there is validity in that method still as well. I will say this though, I feel more anabolic after I workout and eat my first meal, if that even makes sense have to experience it to understand it I guess, and even though the pounds aren't dropping as fast, though they are dropping, my body comp is rapidly improving. People can't believe how much I've changed in just two weeks. Keep in mind I wasn't that bad to begin with, bodyfat averaged around 11% before I started (10% - 12% was my typical range).I read that it wasn't, however, most of the tests were done on lab rats & post-menopause women with little data on females that are younger.
One of the authors that co-wrote Dr. Berardi's free guide on Intermittent Fasting was female.
It's a little hard to follow what you're saying here. But you may want to re-read my posts about the *actual* evidence base for this. You know, the stuff published in peer reviewed journals, rather than on the promotional sites.... The research clearly indicates it works *as well* as ordinary calorie restriction. No better. No worse. If it works for you, that's cool. Just don't make silly claims about it being vastly better for *everyone* (there's no evidence to support that pov) and be clear that claims around its capacity to extend life is based largely on animal studies.
Nobody has challenged the validity of the method. Just suggesting moderation regarding its claims.
I never said it was vastly better for anybody. Do you see that anywhere in my comments? I said it's just another method, a means to an end, that's it. I have read peer review; I just prefer Dr. Berardi's site because he has been somebody I've followed for almost 12 years now and I respect his work. One of my biggest compliments to Dr. Berardi is that it's very non-biased. If you actually read his work you'll see that.
Perhaps you'd be so good as to link us to the peer reviewed literature you've read that advances either the superiority of IF over ordinary calorie restriction, or any non-animal based research that indicates heatlh benefits (e.g positive effects on ageing) that exceed routine calorie restriction... ?
I've shown you the literature. You haven't really given us anything much other than a promotion site.0 -
Love IF. LeanGains style.
And, of course- I heart watching the Hodgetwins.
But notes of caution:
1) IF works better for men. It works for women, but less so. Hormones not the same.
2) Works well for plateaus.
3) Good for people wanting to lose last 10 lbs (i.e. plateaus) OR already fit people who are trying to reduce fat
4) IF is more a lifestyle than a diet- it works for some people because their schedules and natural hunger work with a small eating window
5) Unless IF (leangains style) is combined with a calorie deficit you won't see results if you are significantly overweight. But other ESE style fasting techniques will recommend once a week 24 hour fasting to create a calorie deficit..so that will work.
and as a side note: I'm a big fan of TMW because they promote clean eating and they say that supplements are all expensive and unnecessary. If you are a generally healthy person with a healthy clean diet you are better getting your nutrients from good food rather than supplements.
The only exception is if you are a bodybuilder and want to take in efficient protein to feed your muscles after a workout. This is a science though.
for the majority of people just trying to workout: get a calorie deficit, eat good clean foods and exercise for the health of your heart and get activity for fun!0 -
fasting twins - youtube0
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I have tried it and did not have a great experience. The idea of it sounds great on paper, but when I actually did it, my results were not great. First of all, I am hypoglycemic, so that caused problems for me. My blood sugar spiked and crashed several times throughout the day making me feel shaky, dizzy, disoriented, irritable, and tired. The hunger pains were not pleasant at all. The medications and supplements I take made me nauseous when I took them on an empty stomach or even with a glass of juice. I don't care what you mix it with, broccoli and kale don't taste good in liquid form. I had horrific diarrhea every 30 minutes that left me extremely dehydrated and weak. I started throwing up by the late afternoon on my fasting days and continued for the remainder of the evening. The weight that I lost was gained right back plus some! The maximum time I fasted was 4 days; the minimum was 24 hours. So I did try alternate day fasting along with once a month fasting. I am not bashing it at all, and I know some people have had terrific experiences with fasting. This was just my experience, and I will probably never voluntarily go on a fast ever again if I can help it. :noway:0
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best if channel on YouTubefasting twins - youtube0 -
I have tried it and did not have a great experience. The idea of it sounds great on paper, but when I actually did it, my results were not great. First of all, I am hypoglycemic, so that caused problems for me. My blood sugar spiked and crashed several times throughout the day making me feel shaky, dizzy, disoriented, irritable, and tired. The hunger pains were not pleasant at all. The medications and supplements I take made me nauseous when I took them on an empty stomach or even with a glass of juice. I don't care what you mix it with, broccoli and kale don't taste good in liquid form. I had horrific diarrhea every 30 minutes that left me extremely dehydrated and weak. I started throwing up by the late afternoon on my fasting days and continued for the remainder of the evening. The weight that I lost was gained right back plus some! The maximum time I fasted was 4 days; the minimum was 24 hours. So I did try alternate day fasting along with once a month fasting. I am not bashing it at all, and I know some people have had terrific experiences with fasting. This was just my experience, and I will probably never voluntarily go on a fast ever again if I can help it. :noway:
I don't know of any IF practices that do 4-day fasts. I would never recommend that.
Even if what you were doing was some IF practice I'm unaware of, if you have medical reasons not to do it, the potential benefits DO NOT justify the risk. The biggest benefit is calorie control, and there are safer ways to control calories if you have medical conflicts.0 -
I have tried it and did not have a great experience. The idea of it sounds great on paper, but when I actually did it, my results were not great. First of all, I am hypoglycemic, so that caused problems for me. My blood sugar spiked and crashed several times throughout the day making me feel shaky, dizzy, disoriented, irritable, and tired. The hunger pains were not pleasant at all. The medications and supplements I take made me nauseous when I took them on an empty stomach or even with a glass of juice. I don't care what you mix it with, broccoli and kale don't taste good in liquid form. I had horrific diarrhea every 30 minutes that left me extremely dehydrated and weak. I started throwing up by the late afternoon on my fasting days and continued for the remainder of the evening. The weight that I lost was gained right back plus some! The maximum time I fasted was 4 days; the minimum was 24 hours. So I did try alternate day fasting along with once a month fasting. I am not bashing it at all, and I know some people have had terrific experiences with fasting. This was just my experience, and I will probably never voluntarily go on a fast ever again if I can help it. :noway:
Whoa. That sounds terrible. As was said, it's not for everybody. But in this case it seems like some more research may have been required before trying it out?0 -
What's my *****es? We're still having a pissing match behind the validity and in-validity (word?) of IF?? Seriously, if you don't like IF then get out you don't have to believe in it to support the results that plenty of research has already done. This isn't a debate behind the effectiveness, this is a support thread for those using it, the plan has been proven already. You can say and think what you want but it's not relevant because there are results for support. Nuff said about that...IF is pointless unless it suits your lifestyle because of work, you like eating big meals, ect. In terms of body composition and health your results would be the same eating those same calories/macros throughout the day so.. its not going to make a difference in that aspect if thats the only reason you are doing it.
Actually if you read all the research behind it, there is added benefit to body composition with IF. Previously I worked with a pro-bodybuilder that also provides a nutrition service for 16-weeks and followed a small 6-day meal plan and lost the 10lbs I had plateaued trying to get past so there is validity in that method still as well. I will say this though, I feel more anabolic after I workout and eat my first meal, if that even makes sense have to experience it to understand it I guess, and even though the pounds aren't dropping as fast, though they are dropping, my body comp is rapidly improving. People can't believe how much I've changed in just two weeks. Keep in mind I wasn't that bad to begin with, bodyfat averaged around 11% before I started (10% - 12% was my typical range).I read that it wasn't, however, most of the tests were done on lab rats & post-menopause women with little data on females that are younger.
One of the authors that co-wrote Dr. Berardi's free guide on Intermittent Fasting was female.
It's a little hard to follow what you're saying here. But you may want to re-read my posts about the *actual* evidence base for this. You know, the stuff published in peer reviewed journals, rather than on the promotional sites.... The research clearly indicates it works *as well* as ordinary calorie restriction. No better. No worse. If it works for you, that's cool. Just don't make silly claims about it being vastly better for *everyone* (there's no evidence to support that pov) and be clear that claims around its capacity to extend life is based largely on animal studies.
Nobody has challenged the validity of the method. Just suggesting moderation regarding its claims.
I never said it was vastly better for anybody. Do you see that anywhere in my comments? I said it's just another method, a means to an end, that's it. I have read peer review; I just prefer Dr. Berardi's site because he has been somebody I've followed for almost 12 years now and I respect his work. One of my biggest compliments to Dr. Berardi is that it's very non-biased. If you actually read his work you'll see that.
Perhaps you'd be so good as to link us to the peer reviewed literature you've read that advances either the superiority of IF over ordinary calorie restriction, or any non-animal based research that indicates heatlh benefits (e.g positive effects on ageing) that exceed routine calorie restriction... ?
I've shown you the literature. You haven't really given us anything much other than a promotion site.
Nah dude, it's called I work and have a friggin' life. A promotion site? What promotion site did I give you? I'm not here to defend what I've read and what results I've experienced. I've personally worked with a couple experts in the past on a more normal diet plan and had success and now I'm trying this. That's it, period. I don't have time to argue and track down what I've read for you. You seem hell bent on disproving IF, so good look it up your damn self because I don't give a flying **** what you think. I'm noy saying that based on what I've read IF is the best thing in the world, just another way. Sorry, you caught me on a bad night with your BS.0 -
And if intermittent fasting could be sold in a bottle it would be the best selling supplement. Pro bodybuilders don't use intermittent fasting cause they would have no one to sponsor them so they would have no money and the supplements companies.would go out.0
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Intermittent Fasting (IF) can be a very elegant (because of its simplicity) approach to weight loss.0
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very trueIntermittent Fasting (IF) can be a very elegant (because of its simplicity) approach to weight loss.0 -
And if intermittent fasting could be sold in a bottle it would be the best selling supplement. Pro bodybuilders don't use intermittent fasting cause they would have no one to sponsor them so they would have no money and the supplements companies.would go out.
notsureifsrs?
If you understand how many calories BIG guys require just to maintain weight let along gain you will also understand why IFing would be a stupid idea.
And I am the creator of the IF group here remember
It's not for everyone! 0 -
Intermittent Fasting (IF) can be a very elegant (because of its simplicity) approach to weight loss.
Can being the keyword.
So many people seem to overcomplicate it with %'s of cals/macros post workout, before bed etc. etc. I really don't see the point!0 -
Who cares what we think LOL.just check out Greg palin the number one male fitness model in the world.and argue with him about it about how if does not work and how bad it is for him to do intermittent fasting lmaol.0
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