Lance Armstrong admits to cheating.
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So you want to stop policing it. I can't agree.
When you say, "willing to go the extra mile" you make it sound noble. I see it as cheating. Quite the opposite of noble.
And I've said, Armstrong is a cheater because he doped. He's a "bad person" because he refuses to own it after being caught.
I'd say that he won't own up for publicity reasons. It could have negative affects on his charity, and its possible that he doesn't want that to happen......
As we've discussed, if it's banned then it's clearly cheating.
I'm not saying it's a noble thing to do, but I think athletes that are willing to risk their health, jail time, etc in order to be the best in the world deserve some credit. They have an unreal amount of dedication.
If it could be properly policed, then I wouldn't be so against it. But the bottom line is, hundreds of athletes find ways around it, or just aren't tested while others are. And if we caught all of the athletes who were currently using, do you have any idea how much sports would suck? Say goodbye to the majority of your favorite stars.0 -
I'd say that he won't own up for publicity reasons. It could have negative affects on his charity, and its possible that he doesn't want that to happen......
No doubt....
I'm not saying it's a noble thing to do, but I think athletes that are willing to risk their health, jail time, etc in order to be the best in the world deserve some credit. They have an unreal amount of dedication.
You may not be calling it noble, but again the way you're describing it sure sounds like you are trying to imply it. To me, you are describing someone who's making a pretty poor life choice for fame and fortune. Hell, maybe for the right kind of fame and fortune, it's a good life choice. But it's not respect-worthy.If it could be properly policed, then I wouldn't be so against it. But the bottom line is, hundreds of athletes find ways around it, or just aren't tested while others are. And if we caught all of the athletes who were currently using, do you have any idea how much sports would suck? Say goodbye to the majority of your favorite stars.
In a way it doesn't matter if some slip through. What matters is that the notable ones are caught, i.e., the winners, and that they are publicly named and shamed. There are no absolutes, and what one wants to see is a trend showing improvement. That's a part of everything else in life, and it's a part of sport.0 -
He's still a f*$%^ing champion and one of the most charitable people on earth.0
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News only tells you what they want you to know and most often, it's distorted....in my opinion it is.yeah i definitely should have headed this wrong but it seems you cant edit the title.
but any reasonable person can see he's guilty of cheating. mountains of evidence and now he's not even going to fight it.
very disappoinnting. what will all the people he inspired think?0 -
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You may not be calling it noble, but again the way you're describing it sure sounds like you are trying to imply it. To me, you are describing someone who's making a pretty poor life choice for fame and fortune. Hell, maybe for the right kind of fame and fortune, it's a good life choice. But it's not respect-worthy.
In a way it doesn't matter if some slip through. What matters is that the notable ones are caught, i.e., the winners, and that they are publicly named and shamed. There are no absolutes, and what one wants to see is a trend showing improvement. That's a part of everything else in life, and it's a part of sport.
I don't think it's a poor life choice. If you have goals and are willing to risk anything to achieve them, I think that's noble. Regardless of what your goals are. If you aren't hurting someone else, I dont think it's wrong to do.
I get what you're saying about catching the ones who are using. But my point is we only catch the champions. And as stated before, the guys in 2nd and 3rd place were also using. So I don't think it does anything to benefit the sport. Its just a false sense of security for the people who are afraid of steroid use in sports.
We're clearly just on polar opposites when it comes to understanding why athletes do what they do. I can respect your opinions. But I like watching sports improve and athletes get better. No one wants to watch scrawny fighters with no power, or watch World's Strongest Man with guys who are natural. It would suck.0 -
so if he's innocent hes going to let them strip him of everything he's won? nobody would do that. nobody would give you their legacy.
He did not admit guilt. He may, but has NOT yet.
You must have been lucky in your life so far since you have obviously not had to deal with the legal system. I used to think the same way - why would an innocent person EVER give up fighting??! But lawyers can strip you of every penny you have and will ever have, your reputation will still be ruined even if you win, and you will end up in poverty. THAT is why even innocent people often stop fighting.0 -
I heard he was the ringleader in all the doping scandals with the other athletes. That he gave all the other cyclists their dope.0
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You may not be calling it noble, but again the way you're describing it sure sounds like you are trying to imply it. To me, you are describing someone who's making a pretty poor life choice for fame and fortune. Hell, maybe for the right kind of fame and fortune, it's a good life choice. But it's not respect-worthy.
In a way it doesn't matter if some slip through. What matters is that the notable ones are caught, i.e., the winners, and that they are publicly named and shamed. There are no absolutes, and what one wants to see is a trend showing improvement. That's a part of everything else in life, and it's a part of sport.
I don't think it's a poor life choice. If you have goals and are willing to risk anything to achieve them, I think that's noble. Regardless of what your goals are. If you aren't hurting someone else, I dont think it's wrong to do.
So you do admit to calling it noble.
You can argue that his, and others, cheating, does hurt people. There's a lot of money backing professional sports. I think it would be naive to think that the cheating doesn't trickle down into some people's pocketbooks, one way or another. Not to mention the lost of integrity to the sport itself. Hard to monetize, but I think it's still important.I get what you're saying about catching the ones who are using. But my point is we only catch the champions. And as stated before, the guys in 2nd and 3rd place were also using. So I don't think it does anything to benefit the sport. Its just a false sense of security for the people who are afraid of steroid use in sports.
In Arnstrong's case, weren't the 2nd and 3rd place riders also caught for some of the years? But again, it doesn't matter. For reasons I've already stated.We're clearly just on polar opposites when it comes to understanding why athletes do what they do.
True enough, but it's nice to have a fun debate without it resorting to name calling. Cheers to you.0 -
^^
Cheers back.
It's nice trying to understand the other side of a topic.0 -
Just because he doesn't want to fight it anymore isn't admitting guilt. You can only fight so much before it takes the life out of you. I see nothing wrong with him giving up the fight. But it doesn't mean that he is admitting that he is guilty. I would hate to be a celebrity no you no privacy at all.0
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It's nice trying to understand the other side of a topic.
Agreed, even if you *are* wrong!0 -
Just because he doesn't want to fight it anymore isn't admitting guilt. You can only fight so much before it takes the life out of you. I see nothing wrong with him giving up the fight. But it doesn't mean that he is admitting that he is guilty. I would hate to be a celebrity no you no privacy at all.
agreed.
Chances are he is guilty. But it's more of a press thing. He has a charity to protect and an image he wants to hold onto.
Plus theres a huge difference in having everyone know you use drugs, and actually admitting it. It can ruin your image.
Every fan of bodybuilding knows that they're all using, but you will never see one of the pros come out and admit it in the open, it's a media nightmare.0 -
My fault! Makes a change - usually I kill thread dead
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The problem with having drugs in sports is that it then becomes, who uses the best drugs. The competitions is no longer about the best athlete, but about the best scientist.
If you take them out entirely then the achievement is entirely down to people.
Obviously, it's practically impossible to wipe it out entirely, but to say it's not worth trying because people will still do it is like saying it's not worth trying to get rid of racism because some people will still be racist...0 -
I dont think he gives a **** about the tour de france..he's all about cancer and charity and i'm sure he wants that to be his legacy, not riding bikes0
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Probably 99% of pro athletes use some sort of enhancement "formulas."0
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The problem with having drugs in sports is that it then becomes, who uses the best drugs. The competitions is no longer about the best athlete, but about the best scientist.
This is already the case.
It's who can use the best drugs, who can get undetectable drugs, who can avoid drug tests. etc.0 -
I think it's very sad that -- WHOEVER IT IS -- the media, the other athletes, I don't know -- can't just let an awesome guy be awesome, they have to go digging, and digging, and digging, trying to find something to nail the awesome guy on.
Whether he did or didn't, the play for sensationalism kills me, as does the screaming hypocrisy in picking this one guy out of the hundreds of others who have done well in various races.
The difference? Lance was AWESOME and now he's paying for it.
An article:
http://ideas.time.com/2012/10/12/lance-armstrong-had-little-choice-but-to-dope/0 -
The problem with having drugs in sports is that it then becomes, who uses the best drugs. The competitions is no longer about the best athlete, but about the best scientist.
This is already the case.
It's who can use the best drugs, who can get undetectable drugs, who can avoid drug tests. etc.
If that is the case, then that is a crappy situation to be in. I don't believe it to be the case. Maybe in American Football and Baseball it may be, but not in all sports.0
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