Lance Armstrong admits to cheating.
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who care if he was doped or not?! He didn't molest children and murder a 80 years old woman.0
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who care if he was doped or not?! He didn't molest children and murder a 80 years old woman.
Is that your threshold for unethical behaviour?0 -
Maybe someone mentioned this already, but what is really sad is the livestrong charity and any awareness he brought to cancer research. What happens to all of that?0
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A friend put it to me this way:
They ALL cheated. Every single one of them. Every single person in the course dopes to some extent. Making the playing field, in effect, level again.
And Lance Armstrong still kicked their *kitten* to high heaven. Whether he did or not, I still say he is one of the best of all time.0 -
How about the fact that the ASDA broke some of its own rules in order to procede with these allegations? The reasoning behind suspending the statute of limitations is pretty fishy. Also there's the fact that other associated organizations didn't want to pursue the case.0
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How about the fact that the ASDA broke some of its own rules in order to procede with these allegations? The reasoning behind suspending the statute of limitations is pretty fishy. Also there's the fact that other associated organizations didn't want to pursue the case.
The statute of limitations has no bearing on his medals nor his endorsements. I can see an argument for not tossing his *kitten* in jail, though.
How he was caught does not change the fact that he's a cheater and a liar.
But you're right: shame on the other organizations for trying to hide the truth.0 -
The statute of limitations has no bearing on his medals nor his endorsements. I can see an argument for not tossing his *kitten* in jail, though.
How he was caught does not change the fact that he's a cheater and a liar.
But you're right: shame on the other organizations for trying to hide the truth.
The context under which immoral actions are uncovered doesn't impact the morality (or lack thereof) of the event, but it does call into question the validity of a system of rules that need to be broken in order to be enforced. IIRC wasn't the ASDA trying to pursue criminal charges and not just nullify his wins? I could be mistaken there but it's why I brought up the point and posted the court's response to the trial.0 -
The statute of limitations has no bearing on his medals nor his endorsements. I can see an argument for not tossing his *kitten* in jail, though.
How he was caught does not change the fact that he's a cheater and a liar.
But you're right: shame on the other organizations for trying to hide the truth.
The context under which immoral actions are uncovered doesn't impact the morality (or lack thereof) of the event, but it does call into question the validity of a system of rules that need to be broken in order to be enforced. IIRC wasn't the ASDA trying to pursue criminal charges and not just nullify his wins? I could be mistaken there but it's why I brought up the point and posted the court's response to the trial.
Yes, the system is clearly broken. Or changing to meet need. Depends upon your point of view, I suppose. That it's broken is hardly news to anyone following along.
I have a hard time accepting criminal prosecution as right under these circumstances. But as far as I'm concerned, with everything else he's getting every bit of what he deserves. And still seems to garner more respect form some than he deserves.0 -
Maybe someone mentioned this already, but what is really sad is the livestrong charity and any awareness he brought to cancer research. What happens to all of that?
Livestrong will continue, and still be a great thing for victims of cancer.0 -
I don't see the big deal in atheletes using performance enhancing drugs honestly. The bigger part is talent and determination. Just because someone might take them doesn't mean that they are going to succeed. How many use them, but aren't successfull so they don't get caught?0
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How can he still not be inspiring? People need to have a serious reality check on the amount of performance enhancing drugs being used.
my thoughts exactly...0 -
How can he still not be inspiring? People need to have a serious reality check on the amount of performance enhancing drugs being used.
my thoughts exactly...
Because he's a liar and a cheat.
You can't be that big of a clean cut hero and expect to only partially lose credibility when the truth comes out.
He was a hero for more than just his cycling, it was the whole package. That has been proven to be broken so faith in him is lost.0 -
Because he's a liar and a cheat.
You can't be that big of a clean cut hero and expect to only partially lose credibility when the truth comes out.
He was a hero for more than just his cycling, it was the whole package. That has been proven to be broken so faith in him is lost.
You probably hated captain america too then (sorry there's been far too much civil debate going on here, I'm not sure what to do with myself). That makes you un-Am'r'c'n!!!!!1!
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Because he's a liar and a cheat.
You can't be that big of a clean cut hero and expect to only partially lose credibility when the truth comes out.
He was a hero for more than just his cycling, it was the whole package. That has been proven to be broken so faith in him is lost.
You probably hated captain america too then (sorry there's been far too much civil debate going on here, I'm not sure what to do with myself). That makes you un-Am'r'c'n!!!!!1!
It's ok, I'm allowed to be un-American being English. Captain Britain ftw lol0 -
It's ok, I'm allowed to be un-American being English. Captain Britain ftw lol
I hope you watch Colbert from across the pond:It's SUPER-MAN not SMASHING-GENT!!!!!0 -
How can he still not be inspiring? People need to have a serious reality check on the amount of performance enhancing drugs being used.
my thoughts exactly...
Because he's a liar and a cheat.
You can't be that big of a clean cut hero and expect to only partially lose credibility when the truth comes out.
He was a hero for more than just his cycling, it was the whole package. That has been proven to be broken so faith in him is lost.
yup. and as was pointed out, the guy didn't just use. he was the cycling kingpin of doping, according to 30 people's sworn testimony. and it's already been known through his entire career that he was one of the sport's biggest bullies.
he's done a lot of good. but that good was able to happen because of him winning. he got contracts because he won. he got donations because he won. you can't have one without the other. so good deeds don't get this guy a pass.0 -
and here's the thing ... what he did? all of his wins? people looked at that and said, 'if he can do all that, what can I do?'
but what he did, sadly, was fiction. he didn't do it on his own. he cheated.
he helped a ton of people. but he helped himself as well.
he keeps saying 'I never failed a test?' nope. barry bonds didn't, either. neither did marion jones. and 'never failed a test' isn't the same as 'I didn't do it.'
interesting, too, is now new reports coming out.The Australian Broadcasting Corp. has uncovered court documents indicating that Lance Armstrong offered to bribe other cyclists at a group of races back in 1993, including one in Philly. New Zealand cyclist Steven Swart gave a sworn deposition during a 2006 lawsuit involving Armstrong.
Swart alleged that Armstrong offered an opponent $50,000 to help fix the CoreStates U.S. Pro Cycling race in Philadelphia as well as events in Pittsburgh and West Virginia. The bonus was offered for anyone capturing all three, which Armstrong did.
Swart also emphasized that he was operating under the assumption that Armstrong would have won all of the races anyway, so he saw the $50,000 as a bonus. He says it was divvied up amongst the Coors team.0 -
he said:
In a statement sent to the AP, Armstrong said: “Today I turn the page. I will no longer address this issue, regardless of the circumstances. I will commit myself to the work I began before ever winning a single Tour de France title: serving people and families affected by cancer, especially those in underserved communities.”
Did he cheat? I don't know. Did he ADMIT TO CHEATING? I've read nothing that suggests he has.
I agree. He still maintains his innocence.....and, in my opinion, rightfully so, as he has passed every single drug test every administered. He simply does not want the stress of dragging this out through the courts and, although I'm sure he;s quite wealthy, lawyers do not come cheap.0 -
who care if he was doped or not?! He didn't molest children and murder a 80 years old woman.
This.
Thank you for the perspective. And yet, they pursue these guys relentlessly until they finally get them to trip up somehow.
That strikes me as unfair. 'You bring in the fans, and then, when we are through with you, we are going to prosecute you for perjury.'
If you are so incensed, change your sport, or stop watching, but do not persecute the winners who play by the, albeit, tacit rules that have been set up.
From what I can tell, bicyclists have always used performance enhancing substances. Eddie Merrckx used amphetamines. Right? And it goes back further than that.
If you are coming up, and you see that just about all the champions used drugs, what are you going to do?
Of course, Lance probably used. How else did he win? How else did the government know with such certainty that if they just kept digging some telltale evidence would show up.
Haven't they voided just about every Tour de France win for the past 20 years because that rider was found to have used drugs during his career?
I believe it is all but a couple. Someone correct me if I am wrong.0 -
Yes, the USada report says that 20 of the 21 riders who finished on the podium during the years Armstrong won have been disqualified for using drugs.
I am guessing the drugs work really well, and that he would not have won if he had not used.
It is not the riders -- sort of. They are simply playing by the rules as they understand them.0
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