Lance Armstrong admits to cheating.

Capt_Apollo

Since when is doping in cycling news? These guys have been put on just about every chemical out there.

OMG HE CHEATED!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Yeah...along with EVERYONE else.

^^ the people who came in 2nd & 3rd in those races, Yeah, they cheated, too!

omg, yes!! that was hilarious. they can't award the yellow jerseys to 2nd and 3rd place winners because they're proven dopers too!!

midschool22

We like the results of the drug use. More homeruns. Bigger lineman. faster times...............but no one wants to admit that they support it...

Not everyone sees it that way.

Yep.

ilovedeadlifts

We like the results of the drug use. More homeruns. Bigger lineman. faster times...............but no one wants to admit that they support it...

Not everyone sees it that way.

What other way is there to see it?
If you're still tuning in on tv, or paying to go to the events, you are supporting/condoning it.

Sports are better because of steroids. Your favorite athletes are using them.

dayone987

i wonder if the Cult of Armstrong STILL thinks he is innocent? there has to be little doubt now right?

looks like some of then have now decided that cheating isn't really cheating because everyone's doing it........

ilovedeadlifts

armstrong would have been a great athlete with or without the drugs.
and he's an amazing person and has done a lot for charity.


I'm just concerned that people are writing him off and calling him a cheater just because he may have taken PEDs in order to become better at what he does...

AngryDiet

I'm just concerned that people are writing him off and calling him a cheater just because he may have taken PEDs in order to become better at what he does...

That's a valid concern, as people are calling him a cheat and writing him off as a cheater, because he's a cheater who's taken PEDs to win. He's a cheater.

makkman

Do many athletes use illegal performance enhancers? Yes. The difference is Lance got caught. And yes there is substantial evidence stacked up against him. It is always so discouraging when one of our heros is exposed. But u definitely cannot take away his work ethic, fight and desire to win. Thats what he can be celebrated for now if u choose to do so. Thanks

AngryDiet

But u definitely cannot take away his work ethic, fight and desire to win. Thats what he can be celebrated for now if u choose to do so. Thanks

You can say the same thing about the Wall Street bankers who've ruined the economy with their manipulation of the system. They have a great work ethic, they fight to win and desire it. Go them!

AngryDiet

i wonder if the Cult of Armstrong STILL thinks he is innocent? there has to be little doubt now right?

looks like some of then have now decided that cheating isn't really cheating because everyone's doing it........

I'm seeing more of, he still had to work really really hard, so that makes it OK.

ilovedeadlifts

But u definitely cannot take away his work ethic, fight and desire to win. Thats what he can be celebrated for now if u choose to do so. Thanks

You can say the same thing about the Wall Street bankers who've ruined the economy with their manipulation of the system. They have a great work ethic, they fight to win and desire it. Go them!

theres a difference between an athlete with 100% dedication that is trying to do better, and a wall street banker who is affecting other people in a negative way.
awful analogy.

AngryDiet

But u definitely cannot take away his work ethic, fight and desire to win. Thats what he can be celebrated for now if u choose to do so. Thanks

You can say the same thing about the Wall Street bankers who've ruined the economy with their manipulation of the system. They have a great work ethic, they fight to win and desire it. Go them!

theres a difference between an athlete with 100% dedication that is trying to do better, and a wall street banker who is affecting other people in a negative way.
awful analogy.

There are differences sure, so it's not perfect, but it's a fine analogy if taken the way it's intended.

Just because you're working hard doesn't give you a free pass to cheat the system. Whether you're helping ruin a sport of the whole economy is a matter of scale.

ilovedeadlifts

There are differences sure, so it's not perfect, but it's a fine analogy if taken the way it's intended.

Just because you're working hard doesn't give you a free pass to cheat the system. Whether you're helping ruin a sport of the whole economy is a matter of scale.

We clearly have a difference of opinion. Can you explain how drugs are ruining sports?
Because I've only seen sports become better because of them.

Olympics are more interesting. We have faster athletes who are stronger. We have more homeruns to watch in baseball. We have jacked football players who run faster and hit harder. We have cyclists who are faster than ever.

Yes if it was 1 or 2 guys here and there I can understand people saying "ban them". But when a large portion of the athletes are using, why not just accept the fact that these guys are willing to do ANYTHING they can to become better. And embrace it.

AngryDiet

There are differences sure, so it's not perfect, but it's a fine analogy if taken the way it's intended.

Just because you're working hard doesn't give you a free pass to cheat the system. Whether you're helping ruin a sport of the whole economy is a matter of scale.

We clearly have a difference of opinion. Can you explain how drugs are ruining sports?
Because I've only seen sports become better because of them.

Olympics are more interesting. We have faster athletes who are stronger. We have more homeruns to watch in baseball. We have jacked football players who run faster and hit harder. We have cyclists who are faster than ever.

Yes if it was 1 or 2 guys here and there I can understand people saying "ban them". But when a large portion of the athletes are using, why not just accept the fact that these guys are willing to do ANYTHING they can to become better. And embrace it.

How are shady bankers ruining the economy? If it were just one or two, then sure, go get 'em, but when they're all doing it...

We get to see bigger deals. More profits! Woot!

...

OK, if drugs were an accepted part of the sport, then I'd be fine with it. But they're not. The organizations which run sports condemn the practice. Doping is not allowed in sports, and dopers are hunted. Some athletes have ethics and don't dope. And they lose. Make it "legal" and I'll accept it. Keep it against the sport, and I'll continue to call anyone caught of doping a cheater and I will not acknowledge their accomplishments as valid.

I do get where you're coming from. Some sports are worse than others. Cycling (at least in Armstrong's tenure) was particularly bad.

When you put an athlete in the position of throwing his ethics out and winning, or keeping it an losing, you don't have anything worth anything. Cycling was (is?) a disgrace.

If you choose to compete in something so broken, and you cheat and win, are you actually doing something noteworthy? Or did you show a colossal lack of judgement involving yourself in something fundamentally broken to begin with? Should I reward Armstrong's lack of good sense with admiration? No.

ilovedeadlifts

I can understand what you're saying. I personally think drugs should be "legal" in sports. But there's too much taboo about PEDs. They're not legal without a script in the states...for political reasons, like most things that should be legal but aren't.
So sports can't really allow them. What they can do is stop testing. Because the testing process is clearly a joke, so many athletes are clearly using drugs in sports, you can visibly tell with a lot of them.

I'm not saying he wasn't cheating. And I'm not trying to say that cheating is okay. I'm saying I think he's a great athlete, has done a lot for charity, and I admire his dedication. If you test positive then clearly it's "cheating". I just refuse to write off the things he's accomplished and say he only did it because of doping.

I still say regardless of the rules that sports are better because of anabolics.

AngryDiet

I can understand what you're saying. I personally think drugs should be "legal" in sports. But there's too much taboo about PEDs. They're not legal without a script in the states...for political reasons, like most things that should be legal but aren't.
So sports can't really allow them. What they can do is stop testing. Because the testing process is clearly a joke, so many athletes are clearly using drugs in sports, you can visibly tell with a lot of them.

I'm not saying he wasn't cheating. And I'm not trying to say that cheating is okay. I'm saying I think he's a great athlete, has done a lot for charity, and I admire his dedication. If you test positive then clearly it's "cheating". I just refuse to write off the things he's accomplished and say he only did it because of doping.

[/quote]

If it were accepted behaviour, I'd accept it too. And it would be fair because *all* of the athletes would do it.

But that's not going to happen. Imagine if drugs were allowed... would all drugs be allowed? What about harmful drugs, where the athlete is potentially trading in his future health for a win next year? Unlikely, as that would be irresponsible to allow. If you have a system where some drugs are legal and others are not, then you'd still have cheating for an unfair advantage, testing, and on and on.

Testing is imperfect, but as someone noted earlier, an athlete might be able to cheat a test today, but when they know their blood can be retested in 5 years and they will be caught, it might act as a deterrent.

Thanks to doping, sports are fundamentally flawed. People cheat, and some get caught. Just like so many other facets of life. I suppose we can simply give up policing it, or continue to do the best we can with what we have.

But under no circumstances should that give the cheaters a free pass, when there are others who do not cheat.

ilovedeadlifts

If it were accepted behaviour, I'd accept it too. And it would be fair because *all* of the athletes would do it.

But that's not going to happen. Imagine if drugs were allowed... would all drugs be allowed? What about harmful drugs, where the athlete is potentially trading in his future health for a win next year? Unlikely, as that would be irresponsible to allow. If you have a system where some drugs are legal and others are not, then you'd still have cheating for an unfair advantage, testing, and on and on.

Testing is imperfect, but as someone noted earlier, an athlete might be able to cheat a test today, but when they know their blood can be retested in 5 years and they will be caught, it might act as a deterrent.

Thanks to doping, sports are fundamentally flawed. People cheat, and some get caught. Just like so many other facets of life. I suppose we can simply give up policing it, or continue to do the best we can with what we have.

But under no circumstances should that give the cheaters a free pass, when there are others who do not cheat.

I can't argue with anything you said.
I just hate the fact that since sports are tested, a lot of people are under this false belief that athletes don't use drugs.
Testing works in some situations as a deterrent but most can find ways around it. Multiple US olympic athletes have tested positive in the past. it was either covered up, or new terms were developed. We had sprinters test positive in the past for ephedrine and came up with "inadvertent use" claiming it was from cough medicine.
They'll never go away.

I agree that allowing everything can definitely lead to people going all out to win this year, and possibly put their health on the line. But I think athletes do that anyway now. They play through injuries, use corticosteroids often despite the bad effects of them, and push themselves to the limits. It'll always happen, just with different means.

AngryDiet

Keeping doping out of sports is largely a matter of deterrent. That's why it's imperative that we, as a society, name and shame every single athlete who gets caught. The higher their profile the better.

Giving Armstrong a pass because of his work ethic or because he raised millions for cancer research does not benefit sports in the long run.


But yes, the system is imperfect. Again, do you throw it all out on that basis, or do you continue to fight to improve things?

ilovedeadlifts

But yes, the system is imperfect. Again, do you throw it all out on that basis, or do you continue to fight to improve things?

I think the reason it is imperfect is because they're trying to give the impression that drugs aren't in sports. When they are. Armstrong only got caught because he was one of the best. They don't test the no name guys, but if you break records or are at the top, people start making accusations.

I understand that they're trying to keep athletes "safe" or make things "fair". But really theyre just demonizing athletes who are willing to go the extra mile. Armstrong isn't a bad person because he was doping, I can understand people saying he's a bad person because he broke the rules though. They aren't allowed so he shouldn't have used them, but that being said, there needs to be untested leagues for the athletes who want to be the BEST.

I think the the thing to do is to abandon the witch hunt for people who use PEDs, or use blood dopoing. It's a losing battle that theyre fighting and it's just costing tons of money, and bringing negative media to the sports. Just allow them. Trust me, people won't stop watching.

AngryDiet

So you want to stop policing it. I can't agree.

When you say, "willing to go the extra mile" you make it sound noble. I see it as cheating. Quite the opposite of noble.

And I've said, Armstrong is a cheater because he doped. He's a "bad person" because he refuses to own it after being caught.

ilovedeadlifts

So you want to stop policing it. I can't agree.

When you say, "willing to go the extra mile" you make it sound noble. I see it as cheating. Quite the opposite of noble.

And I've said, Armstrong is a cheater because he doped. He's a "bad person" because he refuses to own it after being caught.

I'd say that he won't own up for publicity reasons. It could have negative affects on his charity, and its possible that he doesn't want that to happen......

As we've discussed, if it's banned then it's clearly cheating.
I'm not saying it's a noble thing to do, but I think athletes that are willing to risk their health, jail time, etc in order to be the best in the world deserve some credit. They have an unreal amount of dedication.

If it could be properly policed, then I wouldn't be so against it. But the bottom line is, hundreds of athletes find ways around it, or just aren't tested while others are. And if we caught all of the athletes who were currently using, do you have any idea how much sports would suck? Say goodbye to the majority of your favorite stars.