Smokers – selfish scum or persecuted minority?
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People should not be allowed to smoke in any place where the smoke might be inhaled by myself or my children. They should not be allowed to smoke in any place where any children whatsoever might inhale the smoke. That includes pretty much anywhere, including inside their homes in the case of an apartment building or thickly settled neighborhood unless they live in a place that is isolated enough. I used to be a smoker, quit four years ago. I'm ashamed that I exposed other people to cigarette smoke but I was ignorant at the time.
Wow. Perhaps you would have been much happier living in the Soviet Union. Is this a joke? you really think you should be able to dictate what I allow not only in my place of business but also in my own home? I can only hope that you are part of a very small minority.
People have a right to live without being exposed to toxic, carcinogenic smoke.
Hope you don't drive a car then...or go near them ever0 -
When you drink or swear in front of your kids your not killing them!! When you smoke you are, unless you read the Heartlander.0
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If you want to kill yourself why don't you buy a knife instead of sending away $10 every couple of days
Wouldnt that be my choice to make? Its my money right?
So long as I don't have to get any of it second hand which includes when I'm walking down the street or trying to enjoy some fresh air in a park, or clean up your mess, yeah go kill yourself wherever you like.
Suicide is NOT something to joke about... :explode:0 -
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Bottom line is this. You cant have it both ways. You can not say that the government should ban this and that and then say they should stay out of your life. If you think the government should have the right to tell me that I cant smoke, then dont be upset when the same government tells you what you can and cant eat. Or who you can and cant marry. Dont tell me that you have a right to an abortion because its your body but I dont have a right to smoke. It makes zero sense. Wake up people. Eventually, something you enjoy is going to be banned and youre going to be pissed. And guess what? Nobody will care because we allow the government and the busy bodies to dictate what we can and cant do. If I want to allow smoking in my house, that my business, you dont like it, too bad, dont come over. If I want to allow smoking in my place of business thats my choice, you dont like it? Too bad, go somehwere else.
Nobody is telling you that you can't smoke. I am telling you that you shouldn't be allowed to expose other people to the toxic and carcinogenic smoke that your habit creates. Want to smoke out in the woods? Fine! The north pole? No problem! The local park where people walk and bring their children? Nope. Any public place where there are other people? Nope. Your apartment that leaks smoke into hallways and ventilation ducts? Nope.0 -
When you drink or swear in front of your kids your not killing them!! When you smoke you are, unless you read the Heartlander.
Or any other un-biased study ever done. Again, do the research.0 -
The laws have been gradually changing in my part of the world and it is a pleasure to go out to the pub these days and not come home and have to have a shower before I go to bed as my hair stinks of second hand smoke.
And it's a pleasure to be able to eat a meal without inhaling the smoke of the people at the table next door.
And to fly in an aeroplane that doesn't have a "smoking section" - I'm old enough to remember that.
So, for me, I'm very glad that the laws have changed so that I'm not exposed to the unpleasant atmosphere and health risk of second hand smoke.
I have to admit that I do feel sorry for smokers - it isn't an illegal activity in itself and there are less and less places where you can legally smoke now. It feels as though smokers have to huddle in corners, back to "the back of the bike shed" at school.
For MDW: I don't have a problem if you want to have a "smoking restaurant", assuming you were within the legal rules in your area. I wouldn't eat there and I can't think of anyone I know who would choose that over another restaurant with no smoking (even the smokers I know are considerate enough not to smoke near other people who are eating). I also hope that you have considered the health and wellbeing of your employees and are able to convince them to sign some kind of legal waiver to ensure that they can't sue you if they develop lung cancer in the future.
In summary, I feel sorry for smokers who are treated a bit like lepers, but I'm very glad these rules are around.0 -
Fine, time to go back to that useful MFP chat "Do I look good in a bathing suit".... LOL0
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I don't think smokers are selfish scum but I don't think they're 'persecuted' either.
I think part of the problem for non-smokers is that cigarette smoke really is disgusting. It smells bad and clings to your clothes so it makes you smell bad. I don't like spending time in a smoky atmosphere because I find it so unpleasant. I'm not sure smokers are actually aware of just how bad it/they can smell.
To me it's no different to asking me to sit next to a piss-soaked wino, except he won't bleat on and on about being opressed.
So who is forcing you to sit in smokey atmospheres? You can always leave right?
Sometimes it's not that simple to just get up and leave instead of having to inhale second hand smoke. At my previous job, I shared an office with a co-worker who smoked. It was really hard for me to breath when she would come in from her smoke break. I couldn't just get up and leave. Also I ride the Metro bus for transportation because I don't drive. I can't just get off the bus when someone with really strong second hand smoke odor gets on the bus. I have to sit there struggling to breath because I can't just get off the bus and not go anywhere in order to not be around someone who reeks of smoke.
So should we ban BO? How bout perfume? I cant stand the smell of perfume, it makes me sneeze. So you think we should ban everything that makes people stink?
BO and perfume don't cause cancer and COPD and if you need me to point out the obvious stupidity of your comparison then this argument should be a short one.
Second hand smoke doesnt cause those things either.0 -
I don't think smokers are selfish scum but I don't think they're 'persecuted' either.
I think part of the problem for non-smokers is that cigarette smoke really is disgusting. It smells bad and clings to your clothes so it makes you smell bad. I don't like spending time in a smoky atmosphere because I find it so unpleasant. I'm not sure smokers are actually aware of just how bad it/they can smell.
To me it's no different to asking me to sit next to a piss-soaked wino, except he won't bleat on and on about being opressed.
So who is forcing you to sit in smokey atmospheres? You can always leave right?
Sometimes it's not that simple to just get up and leave instead of having to inhale second hand smoke. At my previous job, I shared an office with a co-worker who smoked. It was really hard for me to breath when she would come in from her smoke break. I couldn't just get up and leave. Also I ride the Metro bus for transportation because I don't drive. I can't just get off the bus when someone with really strong second hand smoke odor gets on the bus. I have to sit there struggling to breath because I can't just get off the bus and not go anywhere in order to not be around someone who reeks of smoke.
So should we ban BO? How bout perfume? I cant stand the smell of perfume, it makes me sneeze. So you think we should ban everything that makes people stink?
Oooh, can we ban pollen as well? PLEASEE, spring is hell for me!0 -
No smoking in indoor establishments in Massachusetts......Thank God..... Soon everywhere in the US hopefully...0
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No smoking in indoor establishments in Massachusetts......Thank God..... Soon everywhere in the US hopefully...
Right, because you should be able to make the rules for everyone. Beause you are special.0 -
WOW....Man your all alone on this one.....0
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Bill Hicks said it best.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9ySCcnoo3c 0 -
WOW....Man your all alone on this one.....
Thats because more and more people are selling out their own freedoms and liberties. More and more people are giving in to the nanny state. More and more people think that everything they dont like should be banned. We no longer live in a free society where people make choices for themselves and take responsibility for their actions. We live in a society of nannies that say "this is not good for you so you cant do it" "I dont like it so you cant do it" "I really like your meatloaf so you must ban smoking in yur own building so that I can eat your meatloaf" Its absolute insanity.0 -
I'm a smoker - I don't smoke in my house, I smoke outside it. I don't smoke in my car either. Oh and I don't smoke around children, or around my non-smoking friends if I can help it! The one thing that does get me is pregnant women smoking - yes I know its their choice, but I see that as being selfish (my sister in law smoked constantly whilst pregnant, and unfortunatley lost 2 children - not saying its because of this, but it could of been a factor - and now the 2 children she does have both have bad asthma, again, don't know if it is caused by the smoking whilst pregnant - but it doesnt help)
When I smoke at work, it is on the roof, away from people who would likely walk past and cough and splutter because I'm "polluting their air" - what about all the car fumes you inhale - do you cough and splutter everytime one of them goes past you? If anyone does this to me now whilst I'm walking to work, and enjoying my pre-work ciggie, I make a point of blowing the smoke toward them and try and keep up with them - petty, I know - but if you can be like that then so can I!
When I go to the pub, I smoke outside, away from the door (if I can unless there's some inconsiderate non-smoker taking up my space!)
There are so many rude people on here - everyone has their own vices, and not everyone may agree with them, but not everyone goes on about it, and tries to change people!
Wow! You comment on the rude people on here but you're just as rude when you deliberately blow smoke at someone who coughs and splutters. Believe me not everyone who coughs and splutters is doing it just to make a point. I'm one of those people who cough and splutter because I can't stand it when I get a face full of someone's cigarette smoke. I guess you don't realize how nasty that is to someone who doesn't smoke and how hard it is to even breathe! Really, I'm sorry you're offended by me trying to get that stuff out of my system and just trying to breathe again. I just kind of enjoy breathing.0 -
What about overweight people in front of kids?
Giving the impression that it's 'ok' to be overweight can have life-long consequences that can be worse than smoking as far as health and enjoyment of life goes.
While I'm not a smoker, being anti-authoritarian, I would prefer businesses could choose how they run their business just as we can choose what we do in our own homes.0 -
Selfish scum is a bit harsh don't you think? lol
I smoke, but if I have a non smoker friend in my car or house I wouldn't smoke there. Unless we were all having drinks in my house then we'd smoke inside because the majority of my friends do smoke0 -
Lol, so I don't usually participate in a heated discussion like this one. Tonight I can't sleep, so what the heck, I will give it a go.
Facts-I have been told by the doctor that I have smokers lungs.
-I have NEVER engaged in smoking in my life.
-I was always sick with some type of lung issue while growing up.
- My father smoked till I was 18.
-My bronchial tubes close up when I am trying to walk into a 'public' place and someone walks by smoking.
These are just a few of my own personal facts.
All I am asking is why should I feel guilty about wanting to walk into a grocery store,eat at a restaurant,take a walk n the park, go into the mall,go to an amusement park,etc, and not want to breathe toxins that will make me ill? I don't have a problem with anyone breathing air. Hey...it's free. But cigarette smoke isn't smart enough to be able to stay in the smoking section. It likes to travel and meet every body. I don't care how many fans are going, that stuff is going to travel. Then I get to share it.
Smokers die young and fast? Ha! They carry around liquid oxygen and meds for which the public gets taxed to pay the health care bills. My mother worked at a store that supplied oxygen, they billed Medicaid/Medicare for most of their equipment. So....if I get taxed so they can have meds to help them live a damaged life of their own making, then why can't I have a say in being able to breathe cigarette free air?
Just asking a logical question.
And there is my own opinion ;-}
Jac0 -
Can't stand when people smoke in front of kids. It should be a form of child abuse, if not attempted murder. Makes me sick to think any PARENT would put there child in harms way.
That is absolute insanity. First of all, a persons kids are their kids not yours. Second, there is not a single study anywhere in the world that proves that second hand smoke is as dangerous as people try to make it out to be. My advice, worry about your own kids and stay out of other peoples business.
I work in the ER and see too many kids come in not being able to breath. I walk in the room and I have a hard time breathing because of the smoke smell to their clothes and blankets. I know it not them that are smoking0 -
MDWilliams: This, along with a gazillion other things easily searched on the internet should provide you with the proof you need that second-hand smoke is deadly and dangerous to everyone. I hope that you will do a small amount or reading and realize that you should change your tune on this issue. If not... then I don't know what to tell you. I'm bowing out before things get mean spirited. I feel like the arguments are just going in circles at this point.
http://www.epa.gov/smokefre/healtheffects.html0 -
What about overweight people in front of kids?
Giving the impression that it's 'ok' to be overweight can have life-long consequences that can be worse than smoking as far as health and enjoyment of life goes.
While I'm not a smoker, being anti-authoritarian, I would prefer businesses could choose how they run their business just as we can choose what we do in our own homes.
Holy cow. Common sense. I wish that would rub off on others.0 -
As above - do you use a car, busses, some trains etc?All I am asking is why should I feel guilty about wanting to walk into a grocery store,eat at a restaurant,take a walk n the park, go into the mall,go to an amusement park,etc, and not want to breathe toxins that will make me ill? I don't have a problem with anyone breathing air. Hey...it's free. But cigarette smoke isn't smart enough to be able to stay in the smoking section. It likes to travel and meet every body. I don't care how many fans are going, that stuff is going to travel. Then I get to share it.
Do you use services which make use of these?
Some people seriously suffer from various things from car fumes, even these days with relatively 'cleaner' vehicles.0 -
What about overweight people in front of kids?
Giving the impression that it's 'ok' to be overweight can have life-long consequences that can be worse than smoking as far as health and enjoyment of life goes.
While I'm not a smoker, being anti-authoritarian, I would prefer businesses could choose how they run their business just as we can choose what we do in our own homes.
Are you kidding me?
First of all, a lot of people gain weight when pregnant... That is almost inevitable.
Then there are medical conditions and medications which make it extremely hard to lose weight/slow down your metabolism.0 -
MDWilliams: This, along with a gazillion other things easily searched on the internet should provide you with the proof you need that second-hand smoke is deadly and dangerous to everyone. I hope that you will do a small amount or reading and realize that you should change your tune on this issue. If not... then I don't know what to tell you. I'm bowing out before things get mean spirited. I feel like the arguments are just going in circles at this point.
http://www.epa.gov/smokefre/healtheffects.html
Been there done that. Read all sorts of studies. No study has ever proven second hand smoke to be harmful, Thats a fact. Accept it or not, its still a fact.0 -
Smoking is repulsive and it kills. The people saying second hand smoke is harmless are kidding themselves, it's disgusting that it is still legal to sell tobacco. I appreciate the fact that it is an addiction but I just feel so sad for people who lose family members needlessly. The only people I would call selfish scum though are the people who throw their butts on the ground. THERE IS NO EXCUSE.0
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I'm a smoker - I don't smoke in my house, I smoke outside it. I don't smoke in my car either. Oh and I don't smoke around children, or around my non-smoking friends if I can help it! The one thing that does get me is pregnant women smoking - yes I know its their choice, but I see that as being selfish (my sister in law smoked constantly whilst pregnant, and unfortunatley lost 2 children - not saying its because of this, but it could of been a factor - and now the 2 children she does have both have bad asthma, again, don't know if it is caused by the smoking whilst pregnant - but it doesnt help)
When I smoke at work, it is on the roof, away from people who would likely walk past and cough and splutter because I'm "polluting their air" - what about all the car fumes you inhale - do you cough and splutter everytime one of them goes past you? If anyone does this to me now whilst I'm walking to work, and enjoying my pre-work ciggie, I make a point of blowing the smoke toward them and try and keep up with them - petty, I know - but if you can be like that then so can I!
When I go to the pub, I smoke outside, away from the door (if I can unless there's some inconsiderate non-smoker taking up my space!)
There are so many rude people on here - everyone has their own vices, and not everyone may agree with them, but not everyone goes on about it, and tries to change people!
Wow! You comment on the rude people on here but you're just as rude when you deliberately blow smoke at someone who coughs and splutters. Believe me not everyone who coughs and splutters is doing it just to make a point. I'm one of those people who cough and splutter because I can't stand it when I get a face full of someone's cigarette smoke. I guess you don't realize how nasty that is to someone who doesn't smoke and how hard it is to even breathe! Really, I'm sorry you're offended by me trying to get that stuff out of my system and just trying to breathe again. I just kind of enjoy breathing.
But when I'm outside - you know, the great outdoors, big open spaces etc etc and you decide to walk that close to me that you do maybe catch a whiff of my smoke over the car exhausts and you cough/splutter then sorry but not my problem - plenty of space to walk around me or past me so you don't need to walk that close to me! I already said I don't smoke around people who don't smoke if I can help it, so I certainly wouldn't stand there and "blow smoke in their face" as you put it.
I enjoy breathing, I also enjoy living - and I seem to be able to both, simultaneously without having an issue with it - I don't smoke heavily so why shouldn't I?!0 -
Lol, so I don't usually participate in a heated discussion like this one. Tonight I can't sleep, so what the heck, I will give it a go.
Facts-I have been told by the doctor that I have smokers lungs.
-I have NEVER engaged in smoking in my life.
-I was always sick with some type of lung issue while growing up.
- My father smoked till I was 18.
-My bronchial tubes close up when I am trying to walk into a 'public' place and someone walks by smoking.
These are just a few of my own personal facts.
All I am asking is why should I feel guilty about wanting to walk into a grocery store,eat at a restaurant,take a walk n the park, go into the mall,go to an amusement park,etc, and not want to breathe toxins that will make me ill? I don't have a problem with anyone breathing air. Hey...it's free. But cigarette smoke isn't smart enough to be able to stay in the smoking section. It likes to travel and meet every body. I don't care how many fans are going, that stuff is going to travel. Then I get to share it.
Smokers die young and fast? Ha! They carry around liquid oxygen and meds for which the public gets taxed to pay the health care bills. My mother worked at a store that supplied oxygen, they billed Medicaid/Medicare for most of their equipment. So....if I get taxed so they can have meds to help them live a damaged life of their own making, then why can't I have a say in being able to breathe cigarette free air?
Just asking a logical question.
And there is my own opinion ;-}
Jac
If I had health problems and knew that smoking was allowed in a certain place, I wouldnt go in the place. I know its crazy right? I would make a choice and not enter the place I didnt want to go rather than try to force everyone else to cater to my needs. Im crazy like that.0 -
Smoking is repulsive and it kills. The people saying second hand smoke is harmless are kidding themselves, it's disgusting that it is still legal to sell tobacco. I appreciate the fact that it is an addiction but I just feel so sad for people who lose family members needlessly. The only people I would call selfish scum though are the people who throw their butts on the ground. THERE IS NO EXCUSE.
If you find it repulsive dont do it. Its not just people saying that second hand smoke is harmless, its the countless studies that have been done. A lot of things are disgusting. Should we ban them all? A lot of things are harmful, should we ban them all? We should ban every thing that is harmful to our health?0 -
Smoking is repulsive and it kills. The people saying second hand smoke is harmless are kidding themselves, it's disgusting that it is still legal to sell tobacco. I appreciate the fact that it is an addiction but I just feel so sad for people who lose family members needlessly. The only people I would call selfish scum though are the people who throw their butts on the ground. THERE IS NO EXCUSE.
If you find it repulsive dont do it. Its not just people saying that second hand smoke is harmless, its the countless studies that have been done. A lot of things are disgusting. Should we ban them all? A lot of things are harmful, should we ban them all? We should ban every thing that is harmful to our health?
Ooh yeah sure.. let's go back to how our ancestors lived with just the earth and the animals...
"Don't do it"
Unless you, yourself, have been addicted I don't think you can necessarily talk.. it's not that easy0
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