Smokers – selfish scum or persecuted minority?
Replies
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Smoking is repulsive and it kills. The people saying second hand smoke is harmless are kidding themselves, it's disgusting that it is still legal to sell tobacco. I appreciate the fact that it is an addiction but I just feel so sad for people who lose family members needlessly. The only people I would call selfish scum though are the people who throw their butts on the ground. THERE IS NO EXCUSE.
If you find it repulsive dont do it. Its not just people saying that second hand smoke is harmless, its the countless studies that have been done. A lot of things are disgusting. Should we ban them all? A lot of things are harmful, should we ban them all? We should ban every thing that is harmful to our health?
Ooh yeah sure.. let's go back to how our ancestors lived with just the earth and the animals...
"Don't do it"
Unless you, yourself, have been addicted I don't think you can necessarily talk.. it's not that easy
Actually it is that easy. I dont do things all the time.
Things that you have been ADDICTED to for 5, 10, 20 years?
Its hard to become addicted if yo dont do them.
Exactly.
Which is why unless you have tried them, become addicted and then tried over and over to quit you cannot say one thing about someone just quitting like it's the easiest thing in the world. It's not. Trust me, troll.0 -
for those who deem it acceptable to smoke in front of children/babies in the same room as them or even in parks ought to be damn right ashamed, why ?
its an addiction, having no children of my own, my example would be my goddaughter, now if i was sat in a cafe with her and someone felt the need to light up in the same room, I sure as hell wouldn't have a problem asking them to do it elsewhere, its an addiction, same as how if some one decided to inject in her presence I again would sure as hell be pissed off.
why should I have to give way to a smoker "because its their right" to smoke anywhere, its my god given right to sit in a cafe without having to choke and eff up MY lungs, choose to *kitten* up your own lungs but not mine and if your that damn desperate to puff up do it in your own personal space.
I lived in the same house as an aunt who puffed away like a chimney, she may pay the bills but as far a we were concerned we all lived in the same house therefore she could puff away all she like in HER room, not communal spaces...and as for anyone who says "second hand smoke is dangerous", hush up now and go do some REAL research....
yes driving a car does produce pollution, but do you know what that car gets me from A to B, those who smoke to "relax" or "relieve stress", what did you do to relieve stress ? go on a damn jog or walk to the park if its that bad I'm sure therapy may help.
Its a nasty habit, and children who have to deal with those circumstances I feel are abused, same as how I wouldn't want a child near a herion addict, or some one with ED etc, no way in hell would i allow my child in the same room as someone who is so addicted to smoking, they can't even spare 5minutes to do it outside.
AMEN!0 -
I used smoke about 6 a day! I am also a parent. I didnt smoke around the children..I smoked outdoors only and noone is allowed to smoke inside my apartment. I do believe in passive smoking hence the reason for the above.
I have quit many times for upto a year at a time and always end up sucked back into it
Smoking is my only vice and while it would be nice to quit for good and not fall back into it this isnt always the case.....so many restart tut I'm using an ecig now ^^
I think that while smoking is damaging to my health there are plenty of other things that are also damaging to my health that I cant prevent. I think that the media have made smokers feel guilty ( more than they do already) for smoking and we are made to feel as though we are evil!
It is my choice to smoke or not and I truely hope my children never get into the habit. They have been educated into the dangers of smoking and its forced down our necks about how bad it is each time we pick up a paper or watch television.
I believe people have the right to make their own decisions, and if they are aware its dangerous, and they wish to continue then that is their freedom of choice. If they are around others that don't like smoking, then smokers should be free to go outside and smoke in peace.
I think this world is turning into a dictatorship and we are babied and told what to do or not do far too often. Whether its about the best way to parent, what to wear, how much to weigh, what to eat, where we can smoke, how much we can drink, etc etc etc and then we are taxed and taxed on the things like junk food and smokes to make that point even harder.
Let people live and make their own choices. If you don't like those choices then don't be with those people! If we spent as much time trying to help people as we do critising each other and hating on each other for our flaws and bossed about then we would be so much happier.
Also to take into consideration would be pollution? If you live in a busy city its as bad for your lungs as smoking >< Also look up the stats for women and lung cancer.... a huge percentage of women with lung cancer aren't even smokers. I don't trust a lot of the information out there but then I do know when I smoke its harder to breathe, it stinks and I wouldn't risk hurting others by smoking near them lol
Who knows...make your own choices but don't hate on people with different views.0 -
Smoking is repulsive and it kills. The people saying second hand smoke is harmless are kidding themselves, it's disgusting that it is still legal to sell tobacco. I appreciate the fact that it is an addiction but I just feel so sad for people who lose family members needlessly. The only people I would call selfish scum though are the people who throw their butts on the ground. THERE IS NO EXCUSE.
If you find it repulsive dont do it. Its not just people saying that second hand smoke is harmless, its the countless studies that have been done. A lot of things are disgusting. Should we ban them all? A lot of things are harmful, should we ban them all? We should ban every thing that is harmful to our health?
Ooh yeah sure.. let's go back to how our ancestors lived with just the earth and the animals...
"Don't do it"
Unless you, yourself, have been addicted I don't think you can necessarily talk.. it's not that easy
Actually it is that easy. I dont do things all the time.
Things that you have been ADDICTED to for 5, 10, 20 years?
Its hard to become addicted if yo dont do them.
Exactly.
Which is why unless you have tried them, become addicted and then tried over and over to quit you cannot say one thing about someone just quitting like it's the easiest thing in the world. It's not. Trust me, troll.
I never said it was easy to quit. I said if you find it repulsive dont do it. I also never said that I have never smoked, only that I dont smoke now. I actually smoked for more than 15 years. But thats irrelevant. None of that matters. Its still a persons personal choice as to smoke or not and should be up to a business owner to allow smoking or not. And again, name calling doesnt accomplish much. But if it makes you feel better, thats fine.0 -
Smoking is repulsive and it kills. The people saying second hand smoke is harmless are kidding themselves, it's disgusting that it is still legal to sell tobacco. I appreciate the fact that it is an addiction but I just feel so sad for people who lose family members needlessly. The only people I would call selfish scum though are the people who throw their butts on the ground. THERE IS NO EXCUSE.
If you find it repulsive dont do it. Its not just people saying that second hand smoke is harmless, its the countless studies that have been done. A lot of things are disgusting. Should we ban them all? A lot of things are harmful, should we ban them all? We should ban every thing that is harmful to our health?
Ooh yeah sure.. let's go back to how our ancestors lived with just the earth and the animals...
"Don't do it"
Unless you, yourself, have been addicted I don't think you can necessarily talk.. it's not that easy
Actually it is that easy. I dont do things all the time.
Things that you have been ADDICTED to for 5, 10, 20 years?
Its hard to become addicted if yo dont do them.
Exactly.
Which is why unless you have tried them, become addicted and then tried over and over to quit you cannot say one thing about someone just quitting like it's the easiest thing in the world. It's not. Trust me, troll.
I never said it was easy to quit. I said if you find it repulsive dont do it. I also never said that I have never smoked, only that I dont smoke now. I actually smoked for more than 15 years. But thats irrelevant. None of that matters. Its still a persons personal choice as to smoke or not and should be up to a business owner to allow smoking or not. And again, name calling doesnt accomplish much. But if it makes you feel better, thats fine.
or it's the truth?
No photos, 4 friends, nothing in your profile filled out?
alarm bells0 -
for those who deem it acceptable to smoke in front of children/babies in the same room as them or even in parks ought to be damn right ashamed, why ?
its an addiction, having no children of my own, my example would be my goddaughter, now if i was sat in a cafe with her and someone felt the need to light up in the same room, I sure as hell wouldn't have a problem asking them to do it elsewhere, its an addiction, same as how if some one decided to inject in her presence I again would sure as hell be pissed off.
why should I have to give way to a smoker "because its their right" to smoke anywhere, its my god given right to sit in a cafe without having to choke and eff up MY lungs, choose to *kitten* up your own lungs but not mine and if your that damn desperate to puff up do it in your own personal space.
I lived in the same house as an aunt who puffed away like a chimney, she may pay the bills but as far a we were concerned we all lived in the same house therefore she could puff away all she like in HER room, not communal spaces...and as for anyone who says "second hand smoke is dangerous", hush up now and go do some REAL research....
yes driving a car does produce pollution, but do you know what that car gets me from A to B, those who smoke to "relax" or "relieve stress", what did you do to relieve stress ? go on a damn jog or walk to the park if its that bad I'm sure therapy may help.
Its a nasty habit, and children who have to deal with those circumstances I feel are abused, same as how I wouldn't want a child near a herion addict, or some one with ED etc, no way in hell would i allow my child in the same room as someone who is so addicted to smoking, they can't even spare 5minutes to do it outside.
Are you going to say something to the people drinking coffee, too? What about the parents allowing their children to have sodas, Are you going to tell them off too?
and for your car comparison of how it gets you from point A to B, why not to what they did before they had cars and walk? might take you a little longer but then you can really tell those smokers off!0 -
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/look-it-way/200907/is-second-hand-smoke-really-dangerous
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/secondhand-smoke-charade
Really Guy?.....If you go to ilovesmoking.com and sparkitup.com it had the same facts... Face it, your nieve and (to be blunt) stupid to think that second hand smoke has no side effects.
If you ignore him, he won't be starving for attention....he works for Phillip Morris anyway0 -
Well done you found 2 studies, I'm currently reading 10 which directly contradict your 2 and thats just from one site (sciencedirect). As well as the evidence from members of hospital staff which you can find in this topic.
I only posted two. Im not going to spend all night posting links. Do some research and you will see Im right. Look for un-biased studies, not studies done by cancer groups. Also, members of hospital staff do not in any way shape or form constitute proof of anything.0 -
Smoking is repulsive and it kills. The people saying second hand smoke is harmless are kidding themselves, it's disgusting that it is still legal to sell tobacco. I appreciate the fact that it is an addiction but I just feel so sad for people who lose family members needlessly. The only people I would call selfish scum though are the people who throw their butts on the ground. THERE IS NO EXCUSE.
If you find it repulsive dont do it. Its not just people saying that second hand smoke is harmless, its the countless studies that have been done. A lot of things are disgusting. Should we ban them all? A lot of things are harmful, should we ban them all? We should ban every thing that is harmful to our health?
Ooh yeah sure.. let's go back to how our ancestors lived with just the earth and the animals...
"Don't do it"
Unless you, yourself, have been addicted I don't think you can necessarily talk.. it's not that easy
Actually it is that easy. I dont do things all the time.
Things that you have been ADDICTED to for 5, 10, 20 years?
Its hard to become addicted if yo dont do them.
Exactly.
Which is why unless you have tried them, become addicted and then tried over and over to quit you cannot say one thing about someone just quitting like it's the easiest thing in the world. It's not. Trust me, troll.
I never said it was easy to quit. I said if you find it repulsive dont do it. I also never said that I have never smoked, only that I dont smoke now. I actually smoked for more than 15 years. But thats irrelevant. None of that matters. Its still a persons personal choice as to smoke or not and should be up to a business owner to allow smoking or not. And again, name calling doesnt accomplish much. But if it makes you feel better, thats fine.
or it's the truth?
No photos, 4 friends, nothing in your profile filled out?
alarm bells
Alarm bells for what? That I dont look for friends online? I use MFP to track my daily food intake thats it. I dont look for validation among strangers.0 -
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/look-it-way/200907/is-second-hand-smoke-really-dangerous
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/secondhand-smoke-charade
Really Guy?.....If you go to ilovesmoking.com and sparkitup.com it had the same facts... Face it, your nieve and (to be blunt) stupid to think that second hand smoke has no side effects.
If you ignore him, he won't be starving for attention....he works for Phillip Morris anyway
No, I just believe in personal choices and responsibility. Really the whole second hand smoke thing is irrelevant. If a place allows smoking dont go, problem solved.0 -
I think its annoying that non smokers seem to think its ok to lecture smokers.
Hers the thing, I'm an adult, its my body and I'll do it if I want. If I get cancer I will not blame anyone else.
I don;t go into McDonalds poking fat people telling them they are killing themselves.0 -
Also, members of hospital staff do not in any way shape or form constitute proof of anything.
This is so very wrong. Hospital staff, particularly doctors and nurses, study the human body and some are very specialized in body organs. They do trials in order to answer questions and some exclusively do research. How can you say it doesn't constitute proof of anything? That statement is just as loaded as, certified mechanics don't know anything about engines.0 -
Well done you found 2 studies, I'm currently reading 10 which directly contradict your 2 and thats just from one site (sciencedirect). As well as the evidence from members of hospital staff which you can find in this topic.
I only posted two. Im not going to spend all night posting links. Do some research and you will see Im right. Look for un-biased studies, not studies done by cancer groups. Also, members of hospital staff do not in any way shape or form constitute proof of anything.
Oh I see, so they will twist the results because they are biased? I think not. The results will speak for themselves, if you know what to look for you can see studies which aren't valid. Of course hospital staff don't see anything do they? They don't get people in who struggle to breathe because their idiot parents smoke 50 a day around them. I forgot their life experience counts for nothing but your opinion is fact. My apologies.0 -
I think its annoying that non smokers seem to think its ok to lecture smokers.
Hers the thing, I'm an adult, its my body and I'll do it if I want. If I get cancer I will not blame anyone else.
I don;t go into McDonalds poking fat people telling them they are killing themselves.
Wait, you think you should be able to make choices concerning your own life without the interference of government or busy bodies? Man, youre as crazy as I am. Everybody knows we need others to tell us how to live our lives properly.0 -
There's a difference between pregnancy and obsetity and this can easily be explained to children.Are you kidding me?
First of all, a lot of people gain weight when pregnant... That is almost inevitable.
Then there are medical conditions and medications which make it extremely hard to lose weight/slow down your metabolism.
As far as medical conditions - yes, but at some point the person will have had to eat a hell of a lot of calories to get that weight on, for a start.
Even then, does that make a difference if a child is encouraged to feel that something incredibly unhealthy is 'ok'?
So to clarify; you think god gave you the right to go on to some body else's property and demand to tell the people there what is and is not allowed to happen there?, its my god given right to sit in a cafe without having to choke and eff up MY lungs, choose to *kitten* up your own lungs but not mine and if your that damn desperate to puff up do it in your own personal space.
Me? If I had an issue with what was allowed, I wouldn't go to the cafe in the first place.0 -
I think its annoying that non smokers seem to think its ok to lecture smokers.
Hers the thing, I'm an adult, its my body and I'll do it if I want. If I get cancer I will not blame anyone else.
I don;t go into McDonalds poking fat people telling them they are killing themselves.
Feel free to kill yourself in your home. The point is you shouldn't force other people to breathe in your toxic smoke.0 -
Also, members of hospital staff do not in any way shape or form constitute proof of anything.
This is so very wrong. Hospital staff, particularly doctors and nurses, study the human body and some are very specialized in body organs. They do trials in order to answer questions and some exclusively do research. How can you say it doesn't constitute proof of anything? That statement is just as loaded as, certified mechanics don't know anything about engines.
No sir, We are not talking about staff that has done any real research. We are talking about someone who works in a hospital and says that ids come in and cant breather because their parents smoke. For one, its total BS. And two, in no universe that Im aware of does that constitute evidence of anything.0 -
When did I say anyone was forcing me to do anything
So who is forcing you to sit in smokey atmospheres? You can always leave right?I don't think smokers are selfish scum but I don't think they're 'persecuted' either.
I think part of the problem for non-smokers is that cigarette smoke really is disgusting. It smells bad and clings to your clothes so it makes you smell bad. I don't like spending time in a smoky atmosphere because I find it so unpleasant. I'm not sure smokers are actually aware of just how bad it/they can smell.
To me it's no different to asking me to sit next to a piss-soaked wino, except he won't bleat on and on about being opressed.
It is the case, however, that smokers smell bad. Not just when they are actually smoking, but all day, from the first cig to the last. I work with a smoker and she goes out to smoke. I can smell it on her from across the desk or when walking behind her in the office. I put up with it the same way I'd put up with a colleague's BO or bad breath, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I would object, however, if she lit up in the office as that gives me no way to avoid it.
Does she know she smells bad? Probably. Does she continue to smoke? Yes. Does that make her selfish? I'd say that makes her an addict. She spends over £50 a week on a habit that wrecks her skin, makes her smell and could kill her - being selfish is the least of her worries! Maybe if she was persecuted *a bit* she'd give up?0 -
Well done you found 2 studies, I'm currently reading 10 which directly contradict your 2 and thats just from one site (sciencedirect). As well as the evidence from members of hospital staff which you can find in this topic.
I only posted two. Im not going to spend all night posting links. Do some research and you will see Im right. Look for un-biased studies, not studies done by cancer groups. Also, members of hospital staff do not in any way shape or form constitute proof of anything.
Oh I see, so they will twist the results because they are biased? I think not. The results will speak for themselves, if you know what to look for you can see studies which aren't valid. Of course hospital staff don't see anything do they? They don't get people in who struggle to breathe because their idiot parents smoke 50 a day around them. I forgot their life experience counts for nothing but your opinion is fact. My apologies.
I lived for 18 years in a house with two parents that smoked. I have zero problems. So my experience supercedes their experience right? Of course not, neither experience amounts to anything as far as real evidence is concerned.0 -
Wow some people are really arrogant and unpleasant.
Can I please just point out that despite years and years of research, no study has ever proved that non smokers are better people than smokers.
It would be nice to have a discussion about this without people insulting each other.
If you don't smoke, it does not make you superior to someone that does. And if you do smoke, it does not mean that you are automatically a bad person.
That's my opinion, and no amount of people calling me an idiot, or speaking to me like i'm stupid will change it either way.0 -
I think its annoying that non smokers seem to think its ok to lecture smokers.
Hers the thing, I'm an adult, its my body and I'll do it if I want. If I get cancer I will not blame anyone else.
I don;t go into McDonalds poking fat people telling them they are killing themselves.
Feel free to kill yourself in your home. The point is you shouldn't force other people to breathe in your toxic smoke.
If I allow smoking in my restaurant, how am I forcing others to breathe toxic smoke? Didnt they make the choice to eat there?0 -
I think its annoying that non smokers seem to think its ok to lecture smokers.
Hers the thing, I'm an adult, its my body and I'll do it if I want. If I get cancer I will not blame anyone else.
I don;t go into McDonalds poking fat people telling them they are killing themselves.
Wait, you think you should be able to make choices concerning your own life without the interference of government or busy bodies? Man, youre as crazy as I am. Everybody knows we need others to tell us how to live our lives properly.
I know, crazy isn;t it. I never smoke anywhere that you are not allowed(in ireland thats pretty much everywhere) and smoke out the back of my own house. As long as someone is of age, then thats there call.0 -
I've come to the conclusion some people you just can't argue with due to sheer ignorance and stupidity so I'm ending this now.
If you think passive smoking is a myth, get onto Science Direct or BMJ and see the evidence that you're talkin bollocks. Though I doubt you know what to look for in a good research study, so maybe just sit there in your house, being a good little keyboard warrior and keep your ignorant blinkers on, I don't care I know enough to know you're wrong, if you can't see that then whatever.
Non smokers shouldn't have to limit their choices for the stupid minority.
Smokers, feel free to ruin your body and your health and you can enjoy an early grave, but don't subject everyone else to it.0 -
No sir, We are not talking about staff that has done any real research. We are talking about someone who works in a hospital and says that ids come in and cant breather because their parents smoke. For one, its total BS. And two, in no universe that Im aware of does that constitute evidence of anything.
So if by account of them saying they work in a hospital and have experienced this, as in, people coming in and becoming patients due to second hand smoke, is invalid. Does that also mean that your account of having been exposed to second hand smoke and smoking, but now no longer smoke, and are completely healthy, is also disregarded as a valid account?
I'm not really sure what you're posting about in here. You go back and forth between "this medical study says this, therefore I'm right" and "I've experienced this, so therefore, I'm right in this account" and "I'm completely oppressed by my government, we should live in a free world".
Some of the things you say make sense, but a lot of it doesn't make any sense. I'm not sure what you're advocating.0 -
I used to smoke. I gave up when i discovered i was pregnant. I don't think that smokers are selfish. Not really sure they are persecuted either.
I do know that while i do like going into pubs and clubs without inhaling smoke, the smoking ban has been detrimental to some areas.. There are no local pubs now. In actual fact there are no actual pubs, they are all late night bars which have killed off the nightclubs. What used to be nightclubs are now strip clubs clubs.0 -
Smoking, doing drugs, eating what you like is all personal choice but one thing is for sure this post has sure got some people a bit lets say... heated
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No sir, We are not talking about staff that has done any real research. We are talking about someone who works in a hospital and says that ids come in and cant breather because their parents smoke. For one, its total BS. And two, in no universe that Im aware of does that constitute evidence of anything.
So if by account of them saying they work in a hospital and have experienced this, as in, people coming in and becoming patients due to second hand smoke, is invalid. Does that also mean that your account of having been exposed to second hand smoke and smoking, but now no longer smoke, and are completely healthy, is also disregarded as a valid account?
I'm not really sure what you're posting about in here. You go back and forth between "this medical study says this, therefore I'm right" and "I've experienced this, so therefore, I'm right in this account" and "I'm completely oppressed by my government, we should live in a free world".
Some of the things you say make sense, but a lot of it doesn't make any sense. I'm not sure what you're advocating.
No sire, I stated very clearly that my experience does NOT constitute proof of anything. A persons own personal experience does not prove anything nor does it disprove anything. So saying that I work at a hospital and some kid had health issue and both parents smoked is irrelevant. It means nothing. There is no evidence that the kids health issues are a result of the parents smoking. It takes studies done over a period of years to draw those type of conclusions not one or two kids that have breathing problems and the parents happen to smoke. I lived with two smoking parent and have no health problems. And by that same token, my personal experience of living with two smokers and having no health problems also doesnt prove anything. Its anecdotal and does not constitute proof or evidence of anything.
Not sure how you could miss what Im advocating. I would think its pretty simple. Smoke if you want to its nobody elses business. And if you own a business you should be able to allow smoking and if I dont like it I dont have to eat there. Pretty simple.0 -
Second hand smoke is harmful to others...PERIOD!!0
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When did I say anyone was forcing me to do anything
So who is forcing you to sit in smokey atmospheres? You can always leave right?I don't think smokers are selfish scum but I don't think they're 'persecuted' either.
I think part of the problem for non-smokers is that cigarette smoke really is disgusting. It smells bad and clings to your clothes so it makes you smell bad. I don't like spending time in a smoky atmosphere because I find it so unpleasant. I'm not sure smokers are actually aware of just how bad it/they can smell.
To me it's no different to asking me to sit next to a piss-soaked wino, except he won't bleat on and on about being opressed.
It is the case, however, that smokers smell bad. Not just when they are actually smoking, but all day, from the first cig to the last. I work with a smoker and she goes out to smoke. I can smell it on her from across the desk or when walking behind her in the office. I put up with it the same way I'd put up with a colleague's BO or bad breath, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I would object, however, if she lit up in the office as that gives me no way to avoid it.
Does she know she smells bad? Probably. Does she continue to smoke? Yes. Does that make her selfish? I'd say that makes her an addict. She spends over £50 a week on a habit that wrecks her skin, makes her smell and could kill her - being selfish is the least of her worries! Maybe if she was persecuted *a bit* she'd give up?
Just to carry on your point: Obese people smell bad, that foul smell of sweat and crap all rolled into one.
and before anyone says discrimination im basing this on personal times when ive been stuck next to them.
But god forbid i say anything about that fat guy or girl taking up 2 seats, making the bus smell of rancid mayo. But these are strong woman who no matter how horribly they hate skinny girls are all beautiful on the inside and should be proud of thier rolls of fat.
I would go as far to say being obese has a much higher price to pay than a smoker.
Fat kids will get bullied i school no matter what you do, they will die early and will suffer a worse life because of it.
if you go after smokers you must go after the obese, its a choice just like smoking.0 -
I used to smoke. I gave up when i discovered i was pregnant. I don't think that smokers are selfish. Not really sure they are persecuted either.
I do know that while i do like going into pubs and clubs without inhaling smoke, the smoking ban has been detrimental to some areas.. There are no local pubs now. In actual fact there are no actual pubs, they are all late night bars which have killed off the nightclubs. What used to be nightclubs are now strip clubs clubs.
The common thing around here is, since the smoking ban hurt the are bars, they now charge you $2 for an ashtray. You apy the $2 They give you an ashtray so you can smoke. They use that money to pay the fines when they get caught. Also, we have a restaurant that is now a "private" establishment. Youre membership card is a pack of smokes. Since its a private club, the smoking ban doesnt affect them. You show them a pack of cigs at the door and they let you in.0
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