Smokers – selfish scum or persecuted minority?

BeautyFromPain

Smoking is repulsive and it kills. The people saying second hand smoke is harmless are kidding themselves, it's disgusting that it is still legal to sell tobacco. I appreciate the fact that it is an addiction but I just feel so sad for people who lose family members needlessly. The only people I would call selfish scum though are the people who throw their butts on the ground. THERE IS NO EXCUSE.

If you find it repulsive dont do it. Its not just people saying that second hand smoke is harmless, its the countless studies that have been done. A lot of things are disgusting. Should we ban them all? A lot of things are harmful, should we ban them all? We should ban every thing that is harmful to our health?

Ooh yeah sure.. let's go back to how our ancestors lived with just the earth and the animals...
"Don't do it"
Unless you, yourself, have been addicted I don't think you can necessarily talk.. it's not that easy

Actually it is that easy. I dont do things all the time.

Things that you have been ADDICTED to for 5, 10, 20 years?

Its hard to become addicted if yo dont do them.

Exactly.
Which is why unless you have tried them, become addicted and then tried over and over to quit you cannot say one thing about someone just quitting like it's the easiest thing in the world. It's not. Trust me, troll.

persephone87

for those who deem it acceptable to smoke in front of children/babies in the same room as them or even in parks ought to be damn right ashamed, why ?
its an addiction, having no children of my own, my example would be my goddaughter, now if i was sat in a cafe with her and someone felt the need to light up in the same room, I sure as hell wouldn't have a problem asking them to do it elsewhere, its an addiction, same as how if some one decided to inject in her presence I again would sure as hell be pissed off.

why should I have to give way to a smoker "because its their right" to smoke anywhere, its my god given right to sit in a cafe without having to choke and eff up MY lungs, choose to *kitten* up your own lungs but not mine and if your that damn desperate to puff up do it in your own personal space.
I lived in the same house as an aunt who puffed away like a chimney, she may pay the bills but as far a we were concerned we all lived in the same house therefore she could puff away all she like in HER room, not communal spaces...and as for anyone who says "second hand smoke is dangerous", hush up now and go do some REAL research....

yes driving a car does produce pollution, but do you know what that car gets me from A to B, those who smoke to "relax" or "relieve stress", what did you do to relieve stress ? go on a damn jog or walk to the park if its that bad I'm sure therapy may help.

Its a nasty habit, and children who have to deal with those circumstances I feel are abused, same as how I wouldn't want a child near a herion addict, or some one with ED etc, no way in hell would i allow my child in the same room as someone who is so addicted to smoking, they can't even spare 5minutes to do it outside.

AMEN!

CarlaC78

I used smoke about 6 a day! I am also a parent. I didnt smoke around the children..I smoked outdoors only and noone is allowed to smoke inside my apartment. I do believe in passive smoking hence the reason for the above.

I have quit many times for upto a year at a time and always end up sucked back into it Smoking is my only vice and while it would be nice to quit for good and not fall back into it this isnt always the case.....so many restart tut I'm using an ecig now ^^

I think that while smoking is damaging to my health there are plenty of other things that are also damaging to my health that I cant prevent. I think that the media have made smokers feel guilty ( more than they do already) for smoking and we are made to feel as though we are evil!

It is my choice to smoke or not and I truely hope my children never get into the habit. They have been educated into the dangers of smoking and its forced down our necks about how bad it is each time we pick up a paper or watch television.

I believe people have the right to make their own decisions, and if they are aware its dangerous, and they wish to continue then that is their freedom of choice. If they are around others that don't like smoking, then smokers should be free to go outside and smoke in peace.

I think this world is turning into a dictatorship and we are babied and told what to do or not do far too often. Whether its about the best way to parent, what to wear, how much to weigh, what to eat, where we can smoke, how much we can drink, etc etc etc and then we are taxed and taxed on the things like junk food and smokes to make that point even harder.

Let people live and make their own choices. If you don't like those choices then don't be with those people! If we spent as much time trying to help people as we do critising each other and hating on each other for our flaws and bossed about then we would be so much happier.

Also to take into consideration would be pollution? If you live in a busy city its as bad for your lungs as smoking >< Also look up the stats for women and lung cancer.... a huge percentage of women with lung cancer aren't even smokers. I don't trust a lot of the information out there but then I do know when I smoke its harder to breathe, it stinks and I wouldn't risk hurting others by smoking near them lol

Who knows...make your own choices but don't hate on people with different views.

MDWilliams1857

Smoking is repulsive and it kills. The people saying second hand smoke is harmless are kidding themselves, it's disgusting that it is still legal to sell tobacco. I appreciate the fact that it is an addiction but I just feel so sad for people who lose family members needlessly. The only people I would call selfish scum though are the people who throw their butts on the ground. THERE IS NO EXCUSE.

If you find it repulsive dont do it. Its not just people saying that second hand smoke is harmless, its the countless studies that have been done. A lot of things are disgusting. Should we ban them all? A lot of things are harmful, should we ban them all? We should ban every thing that is harmful to our health?

Ooh yeah sure.. let's go back to how our ancestors lived with just the earth and the animals...
"Don't do it"
Unless you, yourself, have been addicted I don't think you can necessarily talk.. it's not that easy

Actually it is that easy. I dont do things all the time.

Things that you have been ADDICTED to for 5, 10, 20 years?

Its hard to become addicted if yo dont do them.

Exactly.
Which is why unless you have tried them, become addicted and then tried over and over to quit you cannot say one thing about someone just quitting like it's the easiest thing in the world. It's not. Trust me, troll.

I never said it was easy to quit. I said if you find it repulsive dont do it. I also never said that I have never smoked, only that I dont smoke now. I actually smoked for more than 15 years. But thats irrelevant. None of that matters. Its still a persons personal choice as to smoke or not and should be up to a business owner to allow smoking or not. And again, name calling doesnt accomplish much. But if it makes you feel better, thats fine.

BeautyFromPain

Smoking is repulsive and it kills. The people saying second hand smoke is harmless are kidding themselves, it's disgusting that it is still legal to sell tobacco. I appreciate the fact that it is an addiction but I just feel so sad for people who lose family members needlessly. The only people I would call selfish scum though are the people who throw their butts on the ground. THERE IS NO EXCUSE.

If you find it repulsive dont do it. Its not just people saying that second hand smoke is harmless, its the countless studies that have been done. A lot of things are disgusting. Should we ban them all? A lot of things are harmful, should we ban them all? We should ban every thing that is harmful to our health?

Ooh yeah sure.. let's go back to how our ancestors lived with just the earth and the animals...
"Don't do it"
Unless you, yourself, have been addicted I don't think you can necessarily talk.. it's not that easy

Actually it is that easy. I dont do things all the time.

Things that you have been ADDICTED to for 5, 10, 20 years?

Its hard to become addicted if yo dont do them.

Exactly.
Which is why unless you have tried them, become addicted and then tried over and over to quit you cannot say one thing about someone just quitting like it's the easiest thing in the world. It's not. Trust me, troll.

I never said it was easy to quit. I said if you find it repulsive dont do it. I also never said that I have never smoked, only that I dont smoke now. I actually smoked for more than 15 years. But thats irrelevant. None of that matters. Its still a persons personal choice as to smoke or not and should be up to a business owner to allow smoking or not. And again, name calling doesnt accomplish much. But if it makes you feel better, thats fine.

or it's the truth?
No photos, 4 friends, nothing in your profile filled out?
alarm bells

WelcomeToWonderland

for those who deem it acceptable to smoke in front of children/babies in the same room as them or even in parks ought to be damn right ashamed, why ?
its an addiction, having no children of my own, my example would be my goddaughter, now if i was sat in a cafe with her and someone felt the need to light up in the same room, I sure as hell wouldn't have a problem asking them to do it elsewhere, its an addiction, same as how if some one decided to inject in her presence I again would sure as hell be pissed off.

why should I have to give way to a smoker "because its their right" to smoke anywhere, its my god given right to sit in a cafe without having to choke and eff up MY lungs, choose to *kitten* up your own lungs but not mine and if your that damn desperate to puff up do it in your own personal space.
I lived in the same house as an aunt who puffed away like a chimney, she may pay the bills but as far a we were concerned we all lived in the same house therefore she could puff away all she like in HER room, not communal spaces...and as for anyone who says "second hand smoke is dangerous", hush up now and go do some REAL research....

yes driving a car does produce pollution, but do you know what that car gets me from A to B, those who smoke to "relax" or "relieve stress", what did you do to relieve stress ? go on a damn jog or walk to the park if its that bad I'm sure therapy may help.

Its a nasty habit, and children who have to deal with those circumstances I feel are abused, same as how I wouldn't want a child near a herion addict, or some one with ED etc, no way in hell would i allow my child in the same room as someone who is so addicted to smoking, they can't even spare 5minutes to do it outside.

Are you going to say something to the people drinking coffee, too? What about the parents allowing their children to have sodas, Are you going to tell them off too?

and for your car comparison of how it gets you from point A to B, why not to what they did before they had cars and walk? might take you a little longer but then you can really tell those smokers off!

joehempel

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/look-it-way/200907/is-second-hand-smoke-really-dangerous

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/secondhand-smoke-charade

Really Guy?.....If you go to ilovesmoking.com and sparkitup.com it had the same facts... Face it, your nieve and (to be blunt) stupid to think that second hand smoke has no side effects.

If you ignore him, he won't be starving for attention....he works for Phillip Morris anyway

MDWilliams1857

Well done you found 2 studies, I'm currently reading 10 which directly contradict your 2 and thats just from one site (sciencedirect). As well as the evidence from members of hospital staff which you can find in this topic.

I only posted two. Im not going to spend all night posting links. Do some research and you will see Im right. Look for un-biased studies, not studies done by cancer groups. Also, members of hospital staff do not in any way shape or form constitute proof of anything.

MDWilliams1857

Smoking is repulsive and it kills. The people saying second hand smoke is harmless are kidding themselves, it's disgusting that it is still legal to sell tobacco. I appreciate the fact that it is an addiction but I just feel so sad for people who lose family members needlessly. The only people I would call selfish scum though are the people who throw their butts on the ground. THERE IS NO EXCUSE.

If you find it repulsive dont do it. Its not just people saying that second hand smoke is harmless, its the countless studies that have been done. A lot of things are disgusting. Should we ban them all? A lot of things are harmful, should we ban them all? We should ban every thing that is harmful to our health?

Ooh yeah sure.. let's go back to how our ancestors lived with just the earth and the animals...
"Don't do it"
Unless you, yourself, have been addicted I don't think you can necessarily talk.. it's not that easy

Actually it is that easy. I dont do things all the time.

Things that you have been ADDICTED to for 5, 10, 20 years?

Its hard to become addicted if yo dont do them.

Exactly.
Which is why unless you have tried them, become addicted and then tried over and over to quit you cannot say one thing about someone just quitting like it's the easiest thing in the world. It's not. Trust me, troll.

I never said it was easy to quit. I said if you find it repulsive dont do it. I also never said that I have never smoked, only that I dont smoke now. I actually smoked for more than 15 years. But thats irrelevant. None of that matters. Its still a persons personal choice as to smoke or not and should be up to a business owner to allow smoking or not. And again, name calling doesnt accomplish much. But if it makes you feel better, thats fine.

or it's the truth?
No photos, 4 friends, nothing in your profile filled out?
alarm bells

Alarm bells for what? That I dont look for friends online? I use MFP to track my daily food intake thats it. I dont look for validation among strangers.

MDWilliams1857

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/look-it-way/200907/is-second-hand-smoke-really-dangerous

http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/secondhand-smoke-charade

Really Guy?.....If you go to ilovesmoking.com and sparkitup.com it had the same facts... Face it, your nieve and (to be blunt) stupid to think that second hand smoke has no side effects.

If you ignore him, he won't be starving for attention....he works for Phillip Morris anyway

No, I just believe in personal choices and responsibility. Really the whole second hand smoke thing is irrelevant. If a place allows smoking dont go, problem solved.

thebigcb

I think its annoying that non smokers seem to think its ok to lecture smokers.

Hers the thing, I'm an adult, its my body and I'll do it if I want. If I get cancer I will not blame anyone else.

I don;t go into McDonalds poking fat people telling them they are killing themselves.

chinatbag

Also, members of hospital staff do not in any way shape or form constitute proof of anything.

This is so very wrong. Hospital staff, particularly doctors and nurses, study the human body and some are very specialized in body organs. They do trials in order to answer questions and some exclusively do research. How can you say it doesn't constitute proof of anything? That statement is just as loaded as, certified mechanics don't know anything about engines.

persephone87

Well done you found 2 studies, I'm currently reading 10 which directly contradict your 2 and thats just from one site (sciencedirect). As well as the evidence from members of hospital staff which you can find in this topic.

I only posted two. Im not going to spend all night posting links. Do some research and you will see Im right. Look for un-biased studies, not studies done by cancer groups. Also, members of hospital staff do not in any way shape or form constitute proof of anything.

Oh I see, so they will twist the results because they are biased? I think not. The results will speak for themselves, if you know what to look for you can see studies which aren't valid. Of course hospital staff don't see anything do they? They don't get people in who struggle to breathe because their idiot parents smoke 50 a day around them. I forgot their life experience counts for nothing but your opinion is fact. My apologies.

MDWilliams1857

I think its annoying that non smokers seem to think its ok to lecture smokers.

Hers the thing, I'm an adult, its my body and I'll do it if I want. If I get cancer I will not blame anyone else.

I don;t go into McDonalds poking fat people telling them they are killing themselves.

Wait, you think you should be able to make choices concerning your own life without the interference of government or busy bodies? Man, youre as crazy as I am. Everybody knows we need others to tell us how to live our lives properly.

geebusuk

Are you kidding me?
First of all, a lot of people gain weight when pregnant... That is almost inevitable.
Then there are medical conditions and medications which make it extremely hard to lose weight/slow down your metabolism.

There's a difference between pregnancy and obsetity and this can easily be explained to children.
As far as medical conditions - yes, but at some point the person will have had to eat a hell of a lot of calories to get that weight on, for a start.
Even then, does that make a difference if a child is encouraged to feel that something incredibly unhealthy is 'ok'?

, its my god given right to sit in a cafe without having to choke and eff up MY lungs, choose to *kitten* up your own lungs but not mine and if your that damn desperate to puff up do it in your own personal space.

So to clarify; you think god gave you the right to go on to some body else's property and demand to tell the people there what is and is not allowed to happen there?
Me? If I had an issue with what was allowed, I wouldn't go to the cafe in the first place.

persephone87

I think its annoying that non smokers seem to think its ok to lecture smokers.

Hers the thing, I'm an adult, its my body and I'll do it if I want. If I get cancer I will not blame anyone else.

I don;t go into McDonalds poking fat people telling them they are killing themselves.

Feel free to kill yourself in your home. The point is you shouldn't force other people to breathe in your toxic smoke.

MDWilliams1857

Also, members of hospital staff do not in any way shape or form constitute proof of anything.

This is so very wrong. Hospital staff, particularly doctors and nurses, study the human body and some are very specialized in body organs. They do trials in order to answer questions and some exclusively do research. How can you say it doesn't constitute proof of anything? That statement is just as loaded as, certified mechanics don't know anything about engines.

No sir, We are not talking about staff that has done any real research. We are talking about someone who works in a hospital and says that ids come in and cant breather because their parents smoke. For one, its total BS. And two, in no universe that Im aware of does that constitute evidence of anything.

MrsM1ggins

I don't think smokers are selfish scum but I don't think they're 'persecuted' either.

I think part of the problem for non-smokers is that cigarette smoke really is disgusting. It smells bad and clings to your clothes so it makes you smell bad. I don't like spending time in a smoky atmosphere because I find it so unpleasant. I'm not sure smokers are actually aware of just how bad it/they can smell.

To me it's no different to asking me to sit next to a piss-soaked wino, except he won't bleat on and on about being opressed.

So who is forcing you to sit in smokey atmospheres? You can always leave right?

When did I say anyone was forcing me to do anything

It is the case, however, that smokers smell bad. Not just when they are actually smoking, but all day, from the first cig to the last. I work with a smoker and she goes out to smoke. I can smell it on her from across the desk or when walking behind her in the office. I put up with it the same way I'd put up with a colleague's BO or bad breath, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I would object, however, if she lit up in the office as that gives me no way to avoid it.

Does she know she smells bad? Probably. Does she continue to smoke? Yes. Does that make her selfish? I'd say that makes her an addict. She spends over £50 a week on a habit that wrecks her skin, makes her smell and could kill her - being selfish is the least of her worries! Maybe if she was persecuted *a bit* she'd give up?

MDWilliams1857

Well done you found 2 studies, I'm currently reading 10 which directly contradict your 2 and thats just from one site (sciencedirect). As well as the evidence from members of hospital staff which you can find in this topic.

I only posted two. Im not going to spend all night posting links. Do some research and you will see Im right. Look for un-biased studies, not studies done by cancer groups. Also, members of hospital staff do not in any way shape or form constitute proof of anything.

Oh I see, so they will twist the results because they are biased? I think not. The results will speak for themselves, if you know what to look for you can see studies which aren't valid. Of course hospital staff don't see anything do they? They don't get people in who struggle to breathe because their idiot parents smoke 50 a day around them. I forgot their life experience counts for nothing but your opinion is fact. My apologies.

I lived for 18 years in a house with two parents that smoked. I have zero problems. So my experience supercedes their experience right? Of course not, neither experience amounts to anything as far as real evidence is concerned.

OllyReeves

Wow some people are really arrogant and unpleasant.

Can I please just point out that despite years and years of research, no study has ever proved that non smokers are better people than smokers.

It would be nice to have a discussion about this without people insulting each other.

If you don't smoke, it does not make you superior to someone that does. And if you do smoke, it does not mean that you are automatically a bad person.

That's my opinion, and no amount of people calling me an idiot, or speaking to me like i'm stupid will change it either way.