Smokers – selfish scum or persecuted minority?
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I also live in Ohio. I WAS a smoker when the ban took place. I no longer smoke ( not due to the ban)I dont smoke but I find all the anti smoking crap to be over the top. Here in Ohio smoking is banned in all public places which is crazy. If I own a business, it should be my choice as to whether or not I allow smoking in my establishment. If someone wants to eat at my restaurant but doesnt like all the smoke, guess what? They can go eat somewhere else. No one is making them eat there. You have to make a choice. Either my food is so good that you will put up with the smoke, or you can go eat else where. Pretty simple. Here in the town I live in I have seen businesses go out of business due to the smoking ban. Bowling allies are getting crushed. Smokers are not going to spend their money at a place, spend 4-5 hours there and not be able to smoke. Also, the whole argument that smokers cost us money in healthcare is also false. Smokers die younger, thats a fact. Therefore, they save us money in the long run. What ever happen to personal choices and personal responsibility? Whatever happen to a property owners right to decide what they are going to allow on their own property? The nanny state is out of control. And there is no shortage of people that think that anything they dont like should be banned. Its crazy.
I think that its GREAT people can no longer smoke in restaurants. Why should non-smokers be FORCED to breath 2nd hand smoke and get negative side effects from something someone else has done. People are free to smoke in their cars, homes and outside at bars and other locations.
If i want to take my family out to eat or go bowling I dont want to be forced to sit in a toxic environment-period0 -
Cig smoke is a migraine trigger for my 9 year old (as is caffeine and barometric pressure changes). In order to continue keeping her off her preventative medications *yes at 9 she has been on several*....I have to keep her away from it....
Even if that means having a watress pack up our food and leave a resturant. How fair is that to a 9 year old?
:-(0 -
neither0
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Can't stand when people smoke in front of kids. It should be a form of child abuse, if not attempted murder. Makes me sick to think any PARENT would put there child in harms way.
That is absolute insanity. First of all, a persons kids are their kids not yours. Second, there is not a single study anywhere in the world that proves that second hand smoke is as dangerous as people try to make it out to be. My advice, worry about your own kids and stay out of other peoples business.
Oh really? Not a single study anywhere in the world? How about this one from the World Health Org.:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/11/26/us-smoking-passive-deaths-idUSTRE6AP00D20101126
I guess 165,000 deaths a year is a small price for these children to pay for the liberty of their parents to smoke, though, is what you're saying.
As a mom I should add that passive smoking is considered a risk factor for SIDS, due to -- gasp -- evidence that it's a risk factor for SIDS.I have no compassion for self absorbed people who think they should be able to tell others how to live.
LOL. Yes, people who don't want to breathe your smoke are definitely the ones who are self absorbed. And you're not imposing on others at all when you do it.
You know, typically I am for the right of people to be able to do their own self destructive crap, find their own way with it. But your arguments for it have singlehandedly tipped me completely into the against camp on this topic.
I'm an ex-smoker.
This^0 -
Discuss :explode:
everyone wanted smoking highly taxed banned in as many places as possible.
Now they're highly taxing other things and starting to ban stuff like large sodas in NYC.
Start taking away one right, and your's is next. hahahahaha suckers. Your double cheeseburgers are next!0 -
I am someone who gets lightheaded and nauseous from just the smell of cigarette smoke. For this reason, I do not keep company with smokers. I'm grateful to the laws that protect me from cigarette smoke in public places. I have nothing against people who choose to smoke - it's not their fault I'm sensitive and it's not my place to tell them what they should or shouldn't do with their bodies. I just choose not to be around them and I'm glad legislation makes it easier for me to do so.0
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wont date a smoker. ewwwwwwwwwwwwww!!! @ u! lol
I completely agree 100 percent !! nothing worse then kissing someone and tasting their cigs, also the smell is in their clothes etc also. getting back on point I also live in Ohio and fully support the fact that people cant smoke in food establishments etc... why would i want smoke to be mixed in with the meal i want to enjoy ?? also if they want to smoke they can go outside and pollute themselves there !0 -
Discuss :explode:
everyone wanted smoking highly taxed banned in as many places as possible.
Now they're highly taxing other things and starting to ban stuff like large sodas in NYC.
Start taking away one right, and your's is next. hahahahaha suckers. Your double cheeseburgers are next!
Yup yup because cigarettes are almost $20 a pack here and you can only smoke them in your house pretty much... And now our sodas are gone. :sad:0 -
I'd like to enjoy a meal without inhaling a cancerous toxin!!
Ok, so then eat somewhere that doesnt allow smoking. There were non smoking places long before smoking was banned. What gives you the right to tell me that your right to eat my food supercedes my right to make the rules for my estabishment? I would like to enjoy a meal without hearing kids whine and cry. I would like to enjoy a meal without the person next to me being covered in tattoos.
Shouldn't be forced to eat a meal next to someone with tattoos? Bahahahahhaha :huh:
Former smoker with tattoos
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First of all that link is pure BS and is no way a published medical journal. Second, my stance is simply dont go where smoking is allowed. Nobody is forced to breathe smoke. If you choose to attend a place that allows smoking, dont complain about the smoke.
Hahaha wow. Sorry I only went to the unreliable source that is reuters and the WHO. Here are a small number of articles from PubMed:
Impact of a Comprehensive Smoke-Free Law Following a Partial Smoke-Free Law on Incidence of Heart Attacks at a Rural Community Hospital.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23024248
A survey examining the countermeasures taken by restaurants to prevent passive smoking and an analysis of the economic impact of smoking prohibition in restaurants.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22991768
Epigenetic mechanisms and the development of asthma.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23026498
Passive Smoking and Cervical Cancer Risk: A Meta-analysis Based on 3,230 Cases and 2,982 Controls.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22938442
Analysis of selected maternal exposures and non-syndromic atrioventricular septal defects in the National Birth Defects Prevention Study, 1997-2005.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22903798
Parental smoking and risk of childhood cancer: hospital-based case-control study in Shiraz.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22259888
Clearly not one of these studies exists in the whole world...
Edit -- I should add, this was a small selection of what is on PubMed. I skipped over ones that seemed tangentially related to the topic (like for example -- ones that list what all the risk factors are for some condition, and there are like 90 of them, and smoking is one of the 90) and went for the first handful that seemed more or less directly related to the topic. I didn't look for ones that prove smoking is bad, but, by some crazy coincidence, they all suggest it's a lot worse than I ever thought it was. Like -- I didn't realize smoking increased your risk of developing cervical cancer by so much. I never thought the heart attack rate in a community would decrease by that much when smoking was banned. And I was surprised that in the survey about restaurants, 95% who banned smoking outright saw no change, and 1 point something saw an increase in business, and only 3 point something saw a decrease in business -- I guess my pipe dream that restaurants that subsist on being trashy smoky dives alone would fold was presumptive. I was also surprised to see the interesting result that while maternal smoking was not linked to childhood cancer, paternal smoking and maternal passive smoking are strongly linked. You would think the mom smoking while pregnant would be a bigger factor -- interesting stuff, these nonexistent-in-the-whole-world articles.0 -
There is no wrong or right answer to put in here so Ill just post my very humble opinion.
Yes I am a smoker. No I do not light up in public places because it is now illegal. I also dont like to walk down the street smoking because I dont want to accidentally burn anyone, I have my hands full with the kids etc. I dont smoke in my house, I dont smoke in my car. Just outside my own house. Does that sound like child abuse? No.
People who say smoking around kids should be considered child abuse are ignorant feckwits. What about the people who overfeed their already chubby kids? Are THEY going to get a tongue lashing from you for 'abusing' their children? What about people who get blind drunk at weekends thus leaving a child essentially unattended? Should THEY be considered abusive?
And lets not forget the people who drive like maniacs even though they have 'child on board' stickers plastered all over their cars.
Oh wait.... if they do all those things AND smoke they should probably be shot at dawn right?0 -
I object to smoking on a number of levels all of which may be selfish.
I hate cleaning up other people's cigarette butts. If you're going to smoke, don't litter.
I object to having to pay higher insurance rates because people ignore the obvious health risks and smoke anyway. I don't get it - cancer is an ugly disease that you might get. But it becomes more likely if you smoke. Why do it? The statistics are there.
I don't mind the smell of smoke while people are smoking but I hate the smell of stale smoke after they're done. The smell of smoke stays in your clothes, hair, in your car and in your home. Yuck.
It discolors your teeth and leaves a yellow film on everything.
For the person who said people should be able to smoke in restaurants-- sure, but I won't eat there. There are more nonsmokers than smokers. Do the math.
You can smoke all you want, for whatever reasons you want, as long as it doesn't intrude on my space and rights.
I am a former smoker.0 -
Wow, this was an interesting thread. I'm a non-smoker, always have been. I have asthma caused by second hand smoke... apparently being in a home with three 2-3 pack a day smokers from birth to age 19 was not a good thing for my lungs. But even with all that, I truly don't care if people smoke. If I find myself someplace that there are smokers, I leave. If a guy asks me out and he smokes, I say thanks but no thanks. What people's personal choices are is there business. What you choose to believe medically regarding smoking or second hand smoke is your business too.
oh and don't bother to challenge my asthma cause and diagnosis... I truly don't care about your opinon or link - I know what 4 doctors over 20 years have told me.0 -
Discuss :explode:
staying outta this one :noway:
:laugh: :laugh:0 -
There is no wrong or right answer to put in here so Ill just post my very humble opinion.
Yes I am a smoker. No I do not light up in public places because it is now illegal. I also dont like to walk down the street smoking because I dont want to accidentally burn anyone, I have my hands full with the kids etc. I dont smoke in my house, I dont smoke in my car. Just outside my own house. Does that sound like child abuse? No.
People who say smoking around kids should be considered child abuse are ignorant feckwits. What about the people who overfeed their already chubby kids? Are THEY going to get a tongue lashing from you for 'abusing' their children? What about people who get blind drunk at weekends thus leaving a child essentially unattended? Should THEY be considered abusive?
And lets not forget the people who drive like maniacs even though they have 'child on board' stickers plastered all over their cars.
Oh wait.... if they do all those things AND smoke they should probably be shot at dawn right?
^^^^^THIS I agree with!^^^^^ I have 2 kids, and I am a smoker, and so is my husband. We don't smoke in the house, in the car, or anywhere around our kids or anyone elses. We have a screened in back porch in the back of our house. That's where we smoke, and the kids know that they aren't allowed to come out while we are smoking. I am chosing to do what I want with my body, and it's my business! And as for child abuse, what about crap like Toddlers and Tiaras? Now that's child abuse!0 -
There are clear links with smoking and asthma. A friend of mine had severe asthma for 10 years whilst smoking.. When he eventually quit the asthma went poof, just like that. On a long car journey where the driver was chain smoking he had his first asthma attack for 3 years since quitting. Coincidence much?0
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Also, members of hospital staff do not in any way shape or form constitute proof of anything.
This is so very wrong. Hospital staff, particularly doctors and nurses, study the human body and some are very specialized in body organs. They do trials in order to answer questions and some exclusively do research. How can you say it doesn't constitute proof of anything? That statement is just as loaded as, certified mechanics don't know anything about engines.
No sir, We are not talking about staff that has done any real research. We are talking about someone who works in a hospital and says that ids come in and cant breather because their parents smoke. For one, its total BS. And two, in no universe that Im aware of does that constitute evidence of anything.
You continually say, "Do some research". Unless you have done the studies yourself, actually set up trials in which you have personally tested individuals that are non-smokers, coming from smoking families and vice-versa, you haven't actually done research yourself. Simply going online, and reading articles posted by groups claiming to have done unbiased studies doesn't constitute actually doing research, you are simply doing the same thing the posters that linked to articles that prove its bad.
Personally, I am a non-smoker. I don't like being around people that smoke, and will avoid it at all cost. I have asked people that are smoking around my kids, to move to another location, or I moved them personally. I don't see how anyone can possibly think that second hand smoke is safe, common sense tells me that if smoke directly inhaled from the cigaratte is bad for the person doing it, that its just as bad for the person next to him. But hey, thats just me and my opinion, and since I haven't actually done the studies myself....then I can't be sure, nor can I trust anyone else to tell me their studies "PROVE" it. I have to make my own judgement based on what I know.0 -
I quit smoking two weeks ago though I miss it dearly. I totally understand when people are aggravated by smoke- thus, why when I lit up it was far from people and in a large, open area no where near doorways or walkways.
Strolling past a smoker and coughing is absolutely ridiculous, you have plenty of room and are being obnoxious.
I don't think people should be allowed to own large, useless trucks that pollute the environment due to their moronic design but hey, freedom of choice.
Agreed on all points.
There are jerk smokers who don't care/think about the people around them. (but hey, there are jerks in every aspect of life) I smoke off and on (can go months at a time without smoking) but I try to be considerate of other people and not smoke around non-smokers. (unless we are in a bar...then you knowingly came to a place where you knew people were going to be smoking around you)
It is rather annoying when people point it out to you. I have a friend that constantly "calls me out" on Facebook if I mention being sick..."It's the cigs" :noway:
To me, that is just rude. I don't point out anyone else's flaws so why point out mine?0 -
This did actually have some substance to it.If you google I am sure you will find the correct position for setting up your chair and desk to avoid back pain and discomfort all the other jobs you refer to take pre appropriate action to limit dangers dont they? safety hats, goggles, gloves.
I ended up buying a 'kneeling' chair for a previous office job - as yes, actually I was getting a bad back. And no, different seating positions didn't help.
Wouldn't have worked if I was in a less relaxed hot-desk environment.
And yes, they 'limit' dangers, don't remove them altogether.
People know the dangers when they apply for the job and decide if they consider it's worth the risk or not.
Sounds rather unfair, but me, I'd blame that on the person taking the kid to a restaurant that allows smoking, rather than the people smoking.Even if that means having a watress pack up our food and leave a resturant. How fair is that to a 9 year old?0 -
While I am not a smoker, and find find the habit rather distasteful, I am 100% against the government being able to regulate where and when a smoker can light up. Those decisions should be completely up to the individual business owners, and the only time the government should have a say is when it comes to creating the smoking policy on government property. If an individual business decides it wants to permit smoking, as a non-smoker I then have a decision to make whether I will patronize the establishment. If I do not wish to be around second-hand smoke, I should choose not to enter a place that permits smoking. Other non-smokers get upset with my stance on this, but no one is forcing you to enter an establishment against your will to inhale second-hand smoke. Your decision should come down to which you want more - to patronize the business and inhale second-hand smoke, or stay away and enjoy your fresh air. There should be no government involvement at all.
I do not look down on people who smoke. It's a personal decision and I don't see the need to get myself involved in other people's personal decisions, whether I agree with those decisions or not. As a non-smoker and a father, I do appreciate those smokers who show a little courtesy and do their best not to blow smoke right into my kids faces when out in public, and I find that most smokers are aware of the surroundings and do their best to be courteous. There are those who don't care, and I always exercise my option to distance myself from them if their second-hand smoke is bothering me or I have my kids with me.0 -
Discuss :explode:
everyone wanted smoking highly taxed banned in as many places as possible.
Now they're highly taxing other things and starting to ban stuff like large sodas in NYC.
Start taking away one right, and your's is next. hahahahaha suckers. Your double cheeseburgers are next!
:laugh: I never really thought about the connection but that is hilarious.0 -
I had one more thought...my mother has always smoked...I lectured her as a kid and teenager (then picked up the habit myself in my 20's. )
She KNOWS the dangers. A client of theirs died last week of lung cancer which brought on the lectures and talks from her boss. The thing is...the man that died...was NOT a smoker.
So it isn't so cut and dry and yes it ups your risk factor but smoking isn't the only way to get cancer.0 -
Can't stand when people smoke in front of kids. It should be a form of child abuse, if not attempted murder. Makes me sick to think any PARENT would put there child in harms way.
Can't stand it when people believe lies...0 -
the U.S. Surgeon General's own study showed that it would take the equivalent of 50 cigarettes being smoked in a 5 square foot room before the air actually becomes toxic. (which, BTW, would be practically impossible)MDWilliams1857, No studies done?...Really?....Where do you come from!!! Do some research pal!!! Give your kids a chance!! Stop smoking!!
You should actually read the research rather than the "news" article about the study.0 -
I dont smoke but I find all the anti smoking crap to be over the top. Here in Ohio smoking is banned in all public places which is crazy. If I own a business, it should be my choice as to whether or not I allow smoking in my establishment. If someone wants to eat at my restaurant but doesnt like all the smoke, guess what? They can go eat somewhere else. No one is making them eat there. You have to make a choice. Either my food is so good that you will put up with the smoke, or you can go eat else where. Pretty simple. Here in the town I live in I have seen businesses go out of business due to the smoking ban. Bowling allies are getting crushed. Smokers are not going to spend their money at a place, spend 4-5 hours there and not be able to smoke. Also, the whole argument that smokers cost us money in healthcare is also false. Smokers die younger, thats a fact. Therefore, they save us money in the long run. What ever happen to personal choices and personal responsibility? Whatever happen to a property owners right to decide what they are going to allow on their own property? The nanny state is out of control. And there is no shortage of people that think that anything they dont like should be banned. Its crazy.
So, smokers should have the right to smoke, but non-smokers shouldn't have the right to be in public wothout being forced to smoke? Makes sense. And as far as smokers not costing us more in health care, well to put it nicely, you have no earthly idea what you are talking about.0 -
Although you should feel bad when you see a child sitting in your establishment.
http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerCauses/TobaccoCancer/secondhand-smoke
That's a rehash of propaganda, not a scientific study at all.0 -
Can't stand when people smoke in front of kids. It should be a form of child abuse, if not attempted murder. Makes me sick to think any PARENT would put there child in harms way.
Get over yourself, do you class people who j walk, eat burgers, drink shugary drinks, alchol , hold a sisors in an unsafe fasion in front of children, child abusers? attempted murderers?
eh i didnt thinks so0 -
Bill Hicks said it best.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9ySCcnoo3c
Love me some Bill Hicks! :smooched:0 -
I'd like to enjoy a meal without inhaling a cancerous toxin!!
Ok, so then eat somewhere that doesnt allow smoking. There were non smoking places long before smoking was banned. What gives you the right to tell me that your right to eat my food supercedes my right to make the rules for my estabishment? I would like to enjoy a meal without hearing kids whine and cry. I would like to enjoy a meal without the person next to me being covered in tattoos.
neither one of those things you would "like" to do affect your health, smoking and breathing in smoke do. At least make your arguments make a little bit of sense.0 -
I dont smoke but I find all the anti smoking crap to be over the top. Here in Ohio smoking is banned in all public places which is crazy. If I own a business, it should be my choice as to whether or not I allow smoking in my establishment. If someone wants to eat at my restaurant but doesnt like all the smoke, guess what? They can go eat somewhere else. No one is making them eat there. You have to make a choice. Either my food is so good that you will put up with the smoke, or you can go eat else where. Pretty simple. Here in the town I live in I have seen businesses go out of business due to the smoking ban. Bowling allies are getting crushed. Smokers are not going to spend their money at a place, spend 4-5 hours there and not be able to smoke. Also, the whole argument that smokers cost us money in healthcare is also false. Smokers die younger, thats a fact. Therefore, they save us money in the long run. What ever happen to personal choices and personal responsibility? Whatever happen to a property owners right to decide what they are going to allow on their own property? The nanny state is out of control. And there is no shortage of people that think that anything they dont like should be banned. Its crazy.
So, smokers should have the right to smoke, but non-smokers shouldn't have the right to be in public wothout being forced to smoke? Makes sense. And as far as smokers not costing us more in health care, well to put it nicely, you have no earthly idea what you are talking about.
What makes sense is for everyone to make their own choices. Most restaurants have went smoke-free because their customers demanded it, not because the government forced the issue. Consumers have power. Use your power as a consumer without resorting to the gunpoint of a government thug.0
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