Smokers – selfish scum or persecuted minority?
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Well put! If youhave a problem with smoking don't go to a place that allows smokikng and then complain!:smokin:0
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Most if not all of the people against smoking because of second-hand smoke drive cars, and have a carbon footprint. I used to smoke, I'll occassionally have a smoke now, and I love a cigar from time to time. Would I be upset if it was banned? Probably. I can understand the concern behind second-hand smoke though and it's a valid complaint, but I do think it should be considered that everything we do pretty much impacts the people around us.0
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See?
They'll make smoking illegal and then junk food illegal then bad words illegal...
Won't it be such a fun world when you all get your way?
There's a clear difference.
"Junk food" won't kill you, and it's a broad term that has multiple meanings depending on who you ask. Bad words don't kill you.
Smoking and second hand smoke do...........
Nope. Same thing. Junk food can kill you in extreme amounts. Same as smoking. A little is fine. And you must be exposed to second hand smoke in EXTREME amounts to suffer serious adverse effects.
You're complaining about something you really don't like. Not something that is lethal to you.0 -
I find it really depends on the situation. I've never been a smoker, but both of my parents are and they border on being respectful of others. That said, the other day I was at a playground on school property (on a Saturday) which is definitely a no smoking property with my son and a baby girl I was babysitting. My son was off playing and an older woman came with a group of kids. She walked onto the playground smoking a cigarette. Her dog came up to sniff me and the baby, she stopped to tell us that the dog was super friendly and wouldn't bite. Then she stood there, right next to the stroller smoking. I was blown away that someone would do that, especially around a little baby!
Do I think people that wish they had the right to smoke in a restaurant are selfish scum, no, because it was legal and it was a designated area. Do I think that people who smoke all over a baby in a public non smoking place are selfish scum. YES!0 -
I would never say smokers were scum, but nor are they persecuted.
I think its always going to be "me, me, me"...
The problem with this issue is that non-smokers can not get away from smoke clouds in confined areas. So we lose our choice to NOT smoke, by having to bask in your smoke. WHEN the logical step is to smoke outside so that only you, the one choosing to smoke, has to smoke. I personally hate it when I have to walk through someone's smoke with my 19 month old son to get in the door at a restaraunt or department store. Move away from the doors, keep your choice to yourself.
That is all... hater's gonna hate0 -
Nope. Same thing. Junk food can kill you in extreme amounts. Same as smoking. A little is fine. And you must be exposed to second hand smoke in EXTREME amounts to suffer serious adverse effects.
You're complaining about something you really don't like. Not something that is lethal to you.
Strong misunderstanding for how cancer works. You don't magically get to a certain number of cigarettes and then it becomes dangerous...... Cancer could develop very early in your addiction.
The main thing is even small amounts of smoking can be detrimental to your health and performance....we're on a fitness website......so don't be surprised that you're getting responses like this.0 -
Depends on the person if they're selfish or not, but I'm going w/ the third option - slowly-going-broke addicts.
Whooooa... did I read write? Someone posted 'a little is fine?' Hehe. There are nuclear facilities that want to talk to you, just to take a few tests...0 -
Nope. Same thing. Junk food can kill you in extreme amounts. Same as smoking. A little is fine. And you must be exposed to second hand smoke in EXTREME amounts to suffer serious adverse effects.
You're complaining about something you really don't like. Not something that is lethal to you.
Strong misunderstanding for how cancer works. You don't magically get to a certain number of cigarettes and then it becomes dangerous...... Cancer could develop very early in your addiction.
The main thing is even small amounts of smoking can be detrimental to your health and performance....we're on a fitness website......so don't be surprised that you're getting responses like this.
Oh I'm not. Close friends on this site have cut me and sent me nasty messages because I smoke.
Safety is important, but not more important than freedom. We could ban a whole lot of things to make everyone safe. You wouldn't like it.
I won't tell you how to live your life if you don't tell me how to live mine.0 -
I'm so glad there is no smoking allowed in restaurants in CA. Last road trip it seemed like all the southern states still allowed it. Disgusting. People get used to it I guess, but it's clearly unhealthy and wrong for smokers to expect non smokers to find breathing in their smoke acceptable. Sitting on the nonsmoking side of the room is a joke. That being said, I don't find smoking to be a moral issue, but making me breathe your smoke, without my agreement, is.0
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Smoking, like any other vice, should remain legal. It's bad enough drugs and prostitution are illegal (with the few medical marijuana and Nevada exceptions here in America). Making these things illegal opens up a pandora's box of big brother legislation. I'm a cigar smoker, but in the past, if someone told me to extinguish it due to the rules of their establishment, I complied. But if a patron whines about it at a venue where it is permitted, they can be prepared to get smoke blown in their direction. I have no patience for their "oppressed minority" bs.0
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Can't stand when people smoke in front of kids. It should be a form of child abuse, if not attempted murder. Makes me sick to think any PARENT would put there child in harms way.
That is absolute insanity. First of all, a persons kids are their kids not yours. Second, there is not a single study anywhere in the world that proves that second hand smoke is as dangerous as people try to make it out to be. My advice, worry about your own kids and stay out of other peoples business.
Oh really? Not a single study anywhere in the world? How about this one from the World Health Org.:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/11/26/us-smoking-passive-deaths-idUSTRE6AP00D20101126
I guess 165,000 deaths a year is a small price for these children to pay for the liberty of their parents to smoke, though, is what you're saying.
As a mom I should add that passive smoking is considered a risk factor for SIDS, due to -- gasp -- evidence that it's a risk factor for SIDS.I have no compassion for self absorbed people who think they should be able to tell others how to live.
LOL. Yes, people who don't want to breathe your smoke are definitely the ones who are self absorbed. And you're not imposing on others at all when you do it.
You know, typically I am for the right of people to be able to do their own self destructive crap, find their own way with it. But your arguments for it have singlehandedly tipped me completely into the against camp on this topic.
I'm an ex-smoker.0 -
Ah, well I'm getting back from using this computer chair in our hot-desk office.It's right that smoking should be banned in enclosed public spaces, the legislation is to protect the employee's and staff, not the other patrons, after all why should someone have to change career/job in order to not breath in cigerette smoke.
I say all computer chairs should be banned and replaced with bean bags.
Why should I have to change career/job in order to not get bad back?
(Ok, I'm self employed and the only employee, so that scenario isn't a reality.)
Anyone getting a job in somewhere that allows smoking would have known that smoking was allowed before they started the job - they chose the job regardless.
Just as other jobs have dangers associated with them - for instance construction work, factory work or yes even office work.0 -
Second, there is not a single study anywhere in the world that proves that second hand smoke is as dangerous as people try to make it out to be. My advice, worry about your own kids and stay out of other peoples business.
Two 'crazy days' in one week? Is it the moon? Are people drinking? What the heck. ><0 -
I don't think smokers are selfish scum ( though some of them can be ). I think they are addicted to a drug. I was a smoker on and off ( off during pregnancies only ) for 12 years. I have been 2 years smoke free now. I do believe however, and even when I was smoking, that my rights as a smoker DID NOT trump the rights of non smokers for clean air. I NEVER smoked in restaurants, my car with my kids, or even my home. I always went outside, away from non smokers. It's about common courtesy. If I want to knowingly pollute my body I had every right to do so, but I didn't have the right to pollute other people.0
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I'm a bit confused here.I'm so glad there is no smoking allowed in restaurants in CA. Last road trip it seemed like all the southern states still allowed it. Disgusting. People get used to it I guess, but it's clearly unhealthy and wrong for smokers to expect non smokers to find breathing in their smoke acceptable. Sitting on the nonsmoking side of the room is a joke. That being said, I don't find smoking to be a moral issue, but making me breathe your smoke, without my agreement, is.
Did someone force you in to the restaurant?
Did they have misleading signs to make you believe smoking wouldn't be allowed when it was?0 -
The real question is why is smoking still legal at all. It has been proven to kill. But then again McDonalds is still here and their food will kill you. lol
I am a former smoker.
Cell Phones and Driving ARE illegal in my state. The combination HAS been proven to be a killer. Yet, everyday I drive, I see well over 50% of the drivers with a cell phone to their head as they drive.
You won't be able to legislate a country of non-smokers. You'll add legal pot-smokers to the mix before you stop smoking in America.
Put this debate to rest. It's useless and non-productive. Where are all the underpantie threads?0 -
Second, there is not a single study anywhere in the world that proves that second hand smoke is as dangerous as people try to make it out to be. My advice, worry about your own kids and stay out of other peoples business.
Two 'crazy days' in one week? Is it the moon? Are people drinking? What the heck. ><
If you have a non biased study by all means share it. I dont want to see the cancer society etc.. I want to see and actual study published in a medical journal. You wont find one. Every study ever done shows the same thing. Exposure to second hand smoke does not put your health in an type of long term danger or any higher risk of cancer.0 -
E cigarettes are the way forward. Smokers get nicotine fix they need and can have a ciggy with their meal's or drinks whilst indoors and the people around them do not have to smell or inhale 2nd hand smoke. Plus they are way way cheaper. Any smokers out there should try them.
Really tho.. there is no point in this forum other then to try to verbally bash each other. There is no set in stone right or wrong answer, its all about personal preferences. As an ex smoker, when i did smoke i would not have taken my children to a smoking establishment, same way as i chose not to smoke in my home or around them. I disagree with parents who have their tiny baby's ears pierced as i think its barbaric but that's just me.. But because i think that it does not make it wrong. Clearly science proves second hand smoke is harmful or they would not have banned it and spent the money implicating the changes. People cannot disagree with the fact.. If the governments can save money on ANYTHING they will.0 -
Can't stand when people smoke in front of kids. It should be a form of child abuse, if not attempted murder. Makes me sick to think any PARENT would put there child in harms way.
That is absolute insanity. First of all, a persons kids are their kids not yours. Second, there is not a single study anywhere in the world that proves that second hand smoke is as dangerous as people try to make it out to be. My advice, worry about your own kids and stay out of other peoples business.
Oh really? Not a single study anywhere in the world? How about this one from the World Health Org.:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/11/26/us-smoking-passive-deaths-idUSTRE6AP00D20101126
I guess 165,000 deaths a year is a small price for these children to pay for the liberty of their parents to smoke, though, is what you're saying.
As a mom I should add that passive smoking is considered a risk factor for SIDS, due to -- gasp -- evidence that it's a risk factor for SIDS.I have no compassion for self absorbed people who think they should be able to tell others how to live.
LOL. Yes, people who don't want to breathe your smoke are definitely the ones who are self absorbed. And you're not imposing on others at all when you do it.
You know, typically I am for the right of people to be able to do their own self destructive crap, find their own way with it. But your arguments for it have singlehandedly tipped me completely into the against camp on this topic.
I'm an ex-smoker.
First of all that link is pure BS and is no way a published medical journal. Second, my stance is simply dont go where smoking is allowed. Nobody is forced to breathe smoke. If you choose to attend a place that allows smoking, dont complain about the smoke.0 -
Politicians work for votes, not for the best interest of the people they govern.Clearly science proves second hand smoke is harmful or they would not have banned it and spent the money implicating the changes.
Those that try to work purely for the latter won't stay in office.0 -
Politicians work for votes, not for the best interest of the people they govern.Clearly science proves second hand smoke is harmful or they would not have banned it and spent the money implicating the changes.
Those that try to work purely for the latter won't stay in office.
They also in the UK get paid via our taxes. Banning cigarettes that carry very hefty taxes? That seems a somewhat retarded thing to do without good reason because essentially they are hitting their own pockets?0 -
First of all that link is pure BS and is no way a published medical journal. Second, my stance is simply dont go where smoking is allowed. Nobody is forced to breathe smoke. If you choose to attend a place that allows smoking, dont complain about the smoke.
Here you go, burk. It's the EPA.
http://www.epa.gov/smokefre/pubs/strsfs.html0 -
Selfish scum, as demonstrated in this thread multiple times too
I gave my parents TONS of crap growing up since they were smoking. It's pretty easy once you live on your own to avoid smoke since it's pretty much banned everywhere you might go, but I still firmly think parents smoking in front of heir children should be executed, starting with mine.
The miserable excuse for a human being that quoted that it's "their" children so they get to choose probably thinks the same thing about, you know, beating or raping them. How dare they oppose their all mighty parents. I mean, you had sex, so you know better right?0 -
People should not be allowed to smoke in any place where the smoke might be inhaled by myself or my children. They should not be allowed to smoke in any place where any children whatsoever might inhale the smoke. That includes pretty much anywhere, including inside their homes in the case of an apartment building or thickly settled neighborhood unless they live in a place that is isolated enough. I used to be a smoker, quit four years ago. I'm ashamed that I exposed other people to cigarette smoke but I was ignorant at the time.
No, you weren't ignorant 4 yrs ago unless your parents chained you to a bed, fed you cigs and let you loose 4 yrs ago. YOUdecided for your health that you would quit smoking, just like before that YOU decided it was bad, but you wanted to smoke anyway. Which by the way, is totally fine with me. Now, that you don't smoke in public anymore, YOU have decided that no one else should either. That's bordering on hypocrisy and is definitely controlling and selfishness. I'm amazed at all the people that think the gov't should control our every living, breathing moment. Has common sense become so rare that we need a dictatorial gov't telling us what to do? With so many people dependent on the gov't for their living and guidance, I'm afraid she's gonna run dry!
I'm not a smoker and don't like smoke. I used to have a sign in my office that said, "Thank you for not smoking". It worked. My friend had a sign in her office that said, "Thank you for holding your breath while I smoke" I loved it. It was her choice!
I can't even continue to read the posts on this thread. It saddens me how many people have lost their dignity and want the govt to control us and just because you have an opinion on the subject think it should be a law! Sad!0 -
So far people are commenting on how smokers are inconsiderate. The debate isnt whether or not smokers should be more considerate. Should a business owner be told that they cant allow smoking in their own establishment?
Yes, and a total *whatever* to arguments that focus on the consumer's right to smoke -- the consumer, also, can chose to step outside to smoke -- just as they can chose to follow other social niceties businesses enforce, like "no shirt, no shoes, no service". There are lots of places you can't pound shots of tequila, like at the supermarket or Babies"R"Us. Deal.
The real reason that it shouldn't be allowed in the workplace is because if it is, the business owners are putting their employees health at risk for their own profit. Food service is such a huge industry, and it often employs people who could not at that time find a better job elsewhere. Including people with qualifications and education, especially in this crappy economy -- not that this should matter, but, it' not "just people too lazy for college" who work in food service. So, because you fell on harder times, you should just have to suck it up and deal with possible long term health risks? And how many of these businesses offer health benefits to help their employees with this risk, again?
Isn't this generally a law that people voted on? It's one thing if the government was a dictatorship but it's not... just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's unfair.
Businesses that went out of business because they couldn't offer smoking sections anymore must not have had much to offer -- I say good riddance if we can have great businesses that survive on their merits.0 -
The real question is why is smoking still legal at all. It has been proven to kill. But then again McDonalds is still here and their food will kill you. lol
I am a former smoker.
Cell Phones and Driving ARE illegal in my state. The combination HAS been proven to be a killer. Yet, everyday I drive, I see well over 50% of the drivers with a cell phone to their head as they drive.
You won't be able to legislate a country of non-smokers. You'll add legal pot-smokers to the mix before you stop smoking in America.
Put this debate to rest. It's useless and non-productive. Where are all the underpantie threads?
not to mention in the UK of 75% of the price of ciggs are tax, as a de-merit good people are willing to spend more money on *kitten* than what they are actually worth and governments can exploit the addiction to a certain extent and also if it were to be banned likelihood like most drugs it'd end up on the black market.0 -
Well smoking is bad big deal, up to the person if they smoke or not!! Nanny state is bloody right - they are gonna make alcohol and fast food illegal soon!!
You cant say smokers cause all the trouble on the NHS when 10% of the NHS budget is for diabetes and then you have regular problems with drinkers every week!! dont get me wrong I love a bottle of wine!
I grew up with my granda, uncle and mother smoking, and yes I have modertaly severe asthma but that is nothing to do with smoking, it runs in my family, my mother stopped smoking when she was pregnant withg me and guess what my baby sister doesnt have asthma!
I have seen how distructive smoking can be with my granda, but you know what, he liked a cigeratte, so if that was one of his only joys - go for it!!
My boyfriend smokes and yes I do shout at him because it isnt nice kissing a smoker but even more than that he doesnt even like it! so thats why I shout at him!!
Freedom of choice in my opinion - do what ya gotta do - live and let live!!
But people have got to stop telling others what to do just because they dont agree with it!0 -
Selfish scum, as demonstrated in this thread multiple times too
I gave my parents TONS of crap growing up since they were smoking. It's pretty easy once you live on your own to avoid smoke since it's pretty much banned everywhere you might go, but I still firmly think parents smoking in front of heir children should be executed, starting with mine.
The miserable excuse for a human being that quoted that it's "their" children so they get to choose probably thinks the same thing about, you know, beating or raping them. How dare they oppose their all mighty parents. I mean, you had sex, so you know better right?
And when I see reactions like this I know I'm on the right side of the argument.
Or.. you know.. kill people for smoking. Sounds swell.0 -
Ah, well I'm getting back from using this computer chair in our hot-desk office.It's right that smoking should be banned in enclosed public spaces, the legislation is to protect the employee's and staff, not the other patrons, after all why should someone have to change career/job in order to not breath in cigerette smoke.
I say all computer chairs should be banned and replaced with bean bags.
Why should I have to change career/job in order to not get bad back?
(Ok, I'm self employed and the only employee, so that scenario isn't a reality.)
Anyone getting a job in somewhere that allows smoking would have known that smoking was allowed before they started the job - they chose the job regardless.
Just as other jobs have dangers associated with them - for instance construction work, factory work or yes even office work.
If you google I am sure you will find the correct position for setting up your chair and desk to avoid back pain and discomfort all the other jobs you refer to take pre appropriate action to limit dangers dont they? safety hats, goggles, gloves. 0 -
I am an ex-smoker...and it is an addiction no doubt. I do believe I was somewhat selfish in that I was killing myself when I had people that relied on me. I also wasn't treating myself very well. I was considerate around others in that I didn't believe my addiction was their problem, but I'm also very sympathetic and don't believe anyone should be treated badly. I think many people are rude and insensitive to smokers, but I've also seen rude and insensitive smokers.0
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