Smokers – selfish scum or persecuted minority?
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I dont understand what is hard about this. People keep saying that they have a right to eat a meal without going home smelling like smoke. I agree. So if you know a place allows smoking, DONT GO THERE. Eat somewhere else that is more your style. Its not hard. I dont like nudy bars, so i dont go. I dont try to ban them all. I personally dont smoke, so if a restaurant allows smoking I dont eat there, I eat somewhere else. Whats hard about that?0
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Lol, that is the quote you took?
So I 'am' suppose to feel guilty. Hmmmm
And yes,Virginia, I do try and avoid other pollutants. I never said a drastic opinion about a place that allows smoking. But ok, here is mine. Even though;as I said in my comment earlier, I have lung problems not of my own making, I would not begrudge an owner from running his business as he pleases. My caveats are, he would own big enough property that I didn't run into the smoke, and no minors would be allowed in the establishment. Other than that, what grown folks do is their business. Ha!! I guess I will just pick the check up for their Medicare.
Here's a story for you. When my children were young they saw a blip about how a young person can make a difference. It was a story about a young boy telling his mom that he thought grown ups bringing their children into the smoking section was wrong. His mom told him if he didn't like to do something. So he did! He got enough signatures on a petition to have the town vote on passing an under age ban in the smoking section. I think it might have been one of the first places in Florida to have that kind of a ban. I am sure if someone searches for it they could find it. Point of my story? The ban came from a child, not big government trying to play nanny.0 -
Jaysus...0
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I say, if a person wants to smoke then so be it. I am also all for the legalization of weed, coke, crack, meth, whatever. Its not my business what you do. If we dont own our own bodies, what do we own? To each their own. Live your life how you see fit, and let others do the same. Everyone knows the dangers of smoking and people still choose to do it. If they wrote in big red letter on the front of the pack "THESE THINGS WILL KILL YOU", people would still smoke. We all make choices and we all have to live with the consequences of those choices. Who am I to make a choice for you? Who are you to make a choice for me? Who are you to tel me that I cant run my business the way I see fit? To me, this isnt an issue of people being inconsiderate. The world is full of A hole, both smoking and non. Blowing smoke in someones face is douche baggery 101. But that doesnt mean that smoking should be banned or that I shouldnt be allowed to have an establishment that allows smoking.
Totally agree here! If people are killing themselves with obesity and horrific genetically modified/processed food (not to mention fast food), we might as well be able to have fun with all the things mentioned above...0 -
We pay more in taxes for obesity then we ever will smoking.0
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MDWilliams: This, along with a gazillion other things easily searched on the internet should provide you with the proof you need that second-hand smoke is deadly and dangerous to everyone. I hope that you will do a small amount or reading and realize that you should change your tune on this issue. If not... then I don't know what to tell you. I'm bowing out before things get mean spirited. I feel like the arguments are just going in circles at this point.
http://www.epa.gov/smokefre/healtheffects.html
Been there done that. Read all sorts of studies. No study has ever proven second hand smoke to be harmful, Thats a fact. Accept it or not, its still a fact.
This is why you don't get into arguments with smokers. Like I said, blinkered idiocy. I'm sorry you lack the intelligence to see a valid scientific argument, that's why you are a smoker and I'm not.
Actually, Im not a smoker as I have stated many times. Maybe rather than holding yourself up as an intellectual and painting everyone else as stupid, you could work on reading comprehension. You could also take the time to read the hundreds of studies that show no harmful effects of second hand smoke. But what do I know, Im not nearly as mart as you think you are.
So sue me, I skipped your posts because on the whole they are crap about passive smoking which for some reson you feel is about as realistic as santa (btw he's not real). If you're not a smoker why are you acting like one? Could you give me a link to these so called studies? A VALID link not something in the huffington post, a SCIENTIFIC link such as Science Direct, Scientific American etc. I will gladly read them if you can find any.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/look-it-way/200907/is-second-hand-smoke-really-dangerous
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/secondhand-smoke-charade0 -
I have never smoked, which meant I never had to stop ... wish I could say this about all the "bad" food choices I always used to make.
Back on point I can't be around anyone thats smokes which includes my younger sister. So was very happy when the smoking ban came to the UK. However I think if you own the establishment you could deem it for smokers, in the same way I would choose NOT to eat there.
My Mum died of breast and lung cancer at 38 years old - she NEVER smoked in her life.
Just my 2 cents0 -
Neither. Just people being careless with their health.0
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Lol, that is the quote you took?
So I 'am' suppose to feel guilty. Hmmmm
And yes,Virginia, I do try and avoid other pollutants. I never said a drastic opinion about a place that allows smoking. But ok, here is mine. Even though;as I said in my comment earlier, I have lung problems not of my own making, I would not begrudge an owner from running his business as he pleases. My caveats are, he would own big enough property that I didn't run into the smoke, and no minors would be allowed in the establishment. Other than that, what grown folks do is their business. Ha!! I guess I will just pick the check up for their Medicare.
Here's a story for you. When my children were young they saw a blip about how a young person can make a difference. It was a story about a young boy telling his mom that he thought grown ups bringing their children into the smoking section was wrong. His mom told him if he didn't like to do something. So he did! He got enough signatures on a petition to have the town vote on passing an under age ban in the smoking section. I think it might have been one of the first places in Florida to have that kind of a ban. I am sure if someone searches for it they could find it. Point of my story? The ban came from a child, not big government trying to play nanny.
So it came from a child whos mother taught him that if he didnt like something he should make sure nobody else could do it either because hes special.0 -
Look son Americans still think they are free.
In the end its not worth debating anyone.
What will happen is the goverment of my country or yours will keep destroying your rights.
The laws get made following some simple guidelines.
1. Your to stupid to decide if a drug be it alcohol/ weed/coke is ok to use.
2. Laws will get forced through and never changed if it helps out a large company.
3.If the science does not fit the agenda at the time it will be made to fit.
Some great examples
Ban weed it makes negros think they are equal to white men.(some studies are showing cannabis is he best drug to reduce the suffering of cancer patients and could infact help fight it.
tax the hell out of alcohol to reduce drinking and improve healthy. Anyone with sense would realise you just skip a meal and still get wasted. (doing more damage than when you had something in your gut)
Tax the hell out of meat/fat and help the grain company make a profit. This was done under the idea that fat was bad.
(which has never been true)saturated fats anyway.
Mind expanding drugs. (DMT, shrooms etc) made a class A drug during the cold war. Drugs such as this are the reason anti depressents exist. They have almost no long term side affects and if made easier to study could help millions with mental illness.
The world is only going to get worse. Science is not the main drive and if you say it should be they will compare you to the nazis. Exactly what happend to David Nutt when he showed that extacy is less dangerous than horse back riding.
So yeah my point :laugh: People should be allowed to do as they please, Then when they show they lack the mental power to take personal responsibilty ie smoking in a car with kids, getting high in work, drunk driving, smoking so much the child shows signs o lung damage,making thier kids obese so they will face a life time of mental problems and bullying they should be shot. Why should we all suffer for the minorty of peoples mistakes.0 -
Here in the town I live in I have seen businesses go out of business due to the smoking ban. Bowling allies are getting crushed. Smokers are not going to spend their money at a place, spend 4-5 hours there and not be able to smoke.
I find this very hard to believe... i live in the UK weve had a smoking ban here for several 4? years now, I remember being afraid i was going to get burnt when i went to the bar in a club, and the smell of clothing when i got home, blegh!. I saw NO businesses suffering from the smoking ban... if its the same rule anywhere people are still going to go...every smoker hasnt become some kind of recluse, not daring to leave their home because they wont be able to smoke *rolls eyes*
my daddy smokes, i think anyone who grows up in the same household as a smoker will be put off it...0 -
Well this IS fun, enjoying the points and counterpoints so far :bigsmile:0
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Smoking is repulsive and it kills. The people saying second hand smoke is harmless are kidding themselves, it's disgusting that it is still legal to sell tobacco. I appreciate the fact that it is an addiction but I just feel so sad for people who lose family members needlessly. The only people I would call selfish scum though are the people who throw their butts on the ground. THERE IS NO EXCUSE.
If you find it repulsive dont do it. Its not just people saying that second hand smoke is harmless, its the countless studies that have been done. A lot of things are disgusting. Should we ban them all? A lot of things are harmful, should we ban them all? We should ban every thing that is harmful to our health?
Ooh yeah sure.. let's go back to how our ancestors lived with just the earth and the animals...
"Don't do it"
Unless you, yourself, have been addicted I don't think you can necessarily talk.. it's not that easy
Actually it is that easy. I dont do things all the time.
Things that you have been ADDICTED to for 5, 10, 20 years?0 -
Here in the town I live in I have seen businesses go out of business due to the smoking ban. Bowling allies are getting crushed. Smokers are not going to spend their money at a place, spend 4-5 hours there and not be able to smoke.
I find this very hard to believe... i live in the UK weve had a smoking ban here for several 4? years now, I remember being afraid i was going to get burnt when i went to the bar in a club, and the smell of clothing when i got home, blegh!. I saw NO businesses suffering from the smoking ban... if its the same rule anywhere people are still going to go...every smoker hasnt become some kind of recluse, not daring to leave their home because they wont be able to smoke *rolls eyes*
So true. That is just drama and exaggeration. The smokers I know just altered their behavior and adapted to the new rules. They didn't stop going out and doing things.0 -
for those who deem it acceptable to smoke in front of children/babies in the same room as them or even in parks ought to be damn right ashamed, why ?
its an addiction, having no children of my own, my example would be my goddaughter, now if i was sat in a cafe with her and someone felt the need to light up in the same room, I sure as hell wouldn't have a problem asking them to do it elsewhere, its an addiction, same as how if some one decided to inject in her presence I again would sure as hell be pissed off.
why should I have to give way to a smoker "because its their right" to smoke anywhere, its my god given right to sit in a cafe without having to choke and eff up MY lungs, choose to *kitten* up your own lungs but not mine and if your that damn desperate to puff up do it in your own personal space.
I lived in the same house as an aunt who puffed away like a chimney, she may pay the bills but as far a we were concerned we all lived in the same house therefore she could puff away all she like in HER room, not communal spaces...and as for anyone who says "second hand smoke is dangerous", hush up now and go do some REAL research....
yes driving a car does produce pollution, but do you know what that car gets me from A to B, those who smoke to "relax" or "relieve stress", what did you do to relieve stress ? go on a damn jog or walk to the park if its that bad I'm sure therapy may help.
Its a nasty habit, and children who have to deal with those circumstances I feel are abused, same as how I wouldn't want a child near a herion addict, or some one with ED etc, no way in hell would i allow my child in the same room as someone who is so addicted to smoking, they can't even spare 5minutes to do it outside.0 -
Here in the town I live in I have seen businesses go out of business due to the smoking ban. Bowling allies are getting crushed. Smokers are not going to spend their money at a place, spend 4-5 hours there and not be able to smoke.
I find this very hard to believe... i live in the UK weve had a smoking ban here for several 4? years now, I remember being afraid i was going to get burnt when i went to the bar in a club, and the smell of clothing when i got home, blegh!. I saw NO businesses suffering from the smoking ban... if its the same rule anywhere people are still going to go...every smoker hasnt become some kind of recluse, not daring to leave their home because they wont be able to smoke *rolls eyes*
Believe what you want. The bars have seen a huge dip in revenue, especially int he winter time, and the bowling allies cant get people to go there. Read any American paper and you will see. Doesnt take a lot to research it.0 -
Smoking is repulsive and it kills. The people saying second hand smoke is harmless are kidding themselves, it's disgusting that it is still legal to sell tobacco. I appreciate the fact that it is an addiction but I just feel so sad for people who lose family members needlessly. The only people I would call selfish scum though are the people who throw their butts on the ground. THERE IS NO EXCUSE.
If you find it repulsive dont do it. Its not just people saying that second hand smoke is harmless, its the countless studies that have been done. A lot of things are disgusting. Should we ban them all? A lot of things are harmful, should we ban them all? We should ban every thing that is harmful to our health?
Ooh yeah sure.. let's go back to how our ancestors lived with just the earth and the animals...
"Don't do it"
Unless you, yourself, have been addicted I don't think you can necessarily talk.. it's not that easy
Actually it is that easy. I dont do things all the time.
Things that you have been ADDICTED to for 5, 10, 20 years?
Its hard to become addicted if yo dont do them.0 -
for those who deem it acceptable to smoke in front of children/babies in the same room as them or even in parks ought to be damn right ashamed, why ?
its an addiction, having no children of my own, my example would be my goddaughter, now if i was sat in a cafe with her and someone felt the need to light up in the same room, I sure as hell wouldn't have a problem asking them to do it elsewhere, its an addiction, same as how if some one decided to inject in her presence I again would sure as hell be pissed off.
why should I have to give way to a smoker "because its their right" to smoke anywhere, its my god given right to sit in a cafe without having to choke and eff up MY lungs, choose to *kitten* up your own lungs but not mine and if your that damn desperate to puff up do it in your own personal space.
I lived in the same house as an aunt who puffed away like a chimney, she may pay the bills but as far a we were concerned we all lived in the same house therefore she could puff away all she like in HER room, not communal spaces...and as for anyone who says "second hand smoke is dangerous", hush up now and go do some REAL research....
yes driving a car does produce pollution, but do you know what that car gets me from A to B, those who smoke to "relax" or "relieve stress", what did you do to relieve stress ? go on a damn jog or walk to the park if its that bad I'm sure therapy may help.
Its a nasty habit, and children who have to deal with those circumstances I feel are abused, same as how I wouldn't want a child near a herion addict, or some one with ED etc, no way in hell would i allow my child in the same room as someone who is so addicted to smoking, they can't even spare 5minutes to do it outside.
Not sure what makes you think you have a God given right to sit in my Cafe at all let alone without smelling smoke. There are many Cafes, if one allows smoking you certainly have a right to go to another and if you cant do that then dont complain about the smoke.0 -
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/look-it-way/200907/is-second-hand-smoke-really-dangerous
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/secondhand-smoke-charade
Really Guy?.....If you go to ilovesmoking.com and sparkitup.com it had the same facts... Face it, your nieve and (to be blunt) stupid to think that second hand smoke has no side effects.0 -
Well done you found 2 studies, I'm currently reading 10 which directly contradict your 2 and thats just from one site (sciencedirect). As well as the evidence from members of hospital staff which you can find in this topic.0
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