Vegan lifestyle and Awareness about what we're eating!
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Cows are pumped up by antibiotics because they are treated so poorly and are milked 20x more than they should be, causing them to have lesions (open wounds) on their utters, which oozes into the milk. Because the environment that the milk is made in is so poor, including coming from unhealthy cows that are inhumanely caged 24/7 and are fed all kinds of crap to make them overweight, the milk has to be pasteurized so much that not only all of the bad bacteria is taken out, but also all of the good bacteria and essential nutrients that we need to digest the milk and the calcium that is in it. Essentially, milk is now TAKING calcium from our own bones in order to digest this liquid nothing/empty calories that we're ingesting. Horrible, right?
Don't know where you're from but here in the UK (and EU) you'll find practices like this are illegal under several animal rights acts. Perhaps you should considering moving instead of a change of diet? The milk we have here is pasteurized, but also high in calcium (so is cheese of both variations), for it to remove calcium from the milk it'd have to be heated up so high well... damn there wouldn't be anything left O:0 -
Cows are pumped up by antibiotics because they are treated so poorly and are milked 20x more than they should be, causing them to have lesions (open wounds) on their utters, which oozes into the milk. Because the environment that the milk is made in is so poor, including coming from unhealthy cows that are inhumanely caged 24/7 and are fed all kinds of crap to make them overweight, the milk has to be pasteurized so much that not only all of the bad bacteria is taken out, but also all of the good bacteria and essential nutrients that we need to digest the milk and the calcium that is in it. Essentially, milk is now TAKING calcium from our own bones in order to digest this liquid nothing/empty calories that we're ingesting. Horrible, right?
And where, may I ask did you get this information. What "research" did it come from? Do you have any peer reviewed studies?
Many different documentaries. I recommend "Earthlings" for you!
Earthlings..lmao. Funny.... enough said..0 -
My spouse and I eat a whole-food plant-based diet (healthy vegan) and it works great for us. There are many things to say about it, but one thing that I think is really misunderstood is the issue of protein. If you eat a whole-food plant-based diet you will get plenty of protein. MFP shows that very clearly. Any unprocessed starch food such as grain, potato, or beans has more than enough protein. Secondly, a starch-based diet is an excellent diet for losing weight. You can't possibly eat enough grain, potato, and beans to over-consume calories. The trick for losing weight was, for us, to eliminate the extra (added) oil. People who say otherwise simply have not seriously tried it. We also eat lots of vegetables. Anyway it works well for us in terms of both losing weight and feeling great.0
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I'm not following this topic to write a thesis. If you have a counter-position, feel free to research it / back it up, don't just attack. If you see no benefits to a vegan lifestyle, choose a new topic.
And I'm not here to attack.
In debate it is logical for you to have credible sources backing up your "facts" and opinions.
I was simply looking to be educated on the benefits of a vegan lifestyle because I do spend a lot of time reading peer reviewed nutrition studies and have never encountered one that proved a vegan diet was any better than a healthy balanced diet.0 -
Cows are pumped up by antibiotics because they are treated so poorly and are milked 20x more than they should be, causing them to have lesions (open wounds) on their utters, which oozes into the milk. Because the environment that the milk is made in is so poor, including coming from unhealthy cows that are inhumanely caged 24/7 and are fed all kinds of crap to make them overweight, the milk has to be pasteurized so much that not only all of the bad bacteria is taken out, but also all of the good bacteria and essential nutrients that we need to digest the milk and the calcium that is in it. Essentially, milk is now TAKING calcium from our own bones in order to digest this liquid nothing/empty calories that we're ingesting. Horrible, right?
...speaking of myths!! Wow, you must have been raised right on a dairy farm you know the scenario so well, right??
Oh, what's that? You've never been on a farm or even talked to anyone who has? Youtube doesn't count.
But seriously, there are strict guidelines on milk surveillance and what type of milk quality is sold for consumption. They're not "pumped up by antibiotics", "treated so poorly", "milked 20x more than they should be", nor do they have "lesions on their utters, which ooze into the milk". They are not "inhumanely caged 24/7" or "fed all kinds of crap to make them overweight". As someone with a formal education on the subject (who has been to several dairy farms), every part of the cow section of your post is false. Please verify your facts with credible sources or visit an actual dairy farm before posting a bunch of garbage statements you found on the internet. This is how awful rumors get spread - people who don't fact check and take everything on the internet for truth.0 -
Cows are pumped up by antibiotics because they are treated so poorly and are milked 20x more than they should be, causing them to have lesions (open wounds) on their utters, which oozes into the milk. Because the environment that the milk is made in is so poor, including coming from unhealthy cows that are inhumanely caged 24/7 and are fed all kinds of crap to make them overweight, the milk has to be pasteurized so much that not only all of the bad bacteria is taken out, but also all of the good bacteria and essential nutrients that we need to digest the milk and the calcium that is in it. Essentially, milk is now TAKING calcium from our own bones in order to digest this liquid nothing/empty calories that we're ingesting. Horrible, right?
And where, may I ask did you get this information. What "research" did it come from? Do you have any peer reviewed studies?
Many different documentaries. I recommend "Earthlings" for you!
Documentaries cannot be taken as fact. They are a great chance for people to manipulate circumstances to fit their agenda.
Your "research" is invalid.
^^^THIS! Plus, you can fake a documentary. People do it all the time.
Peer reviewed forums are the only thing to be trusted in these circumstances
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I hadn't seen that.
Lolz.....brb... just collapsing under the weight of my brittle bones.Essentially, milk is now TAKING calcium from our own bones in order to digest this liquid nothing/empty calories that we're ingesting.
So empty calorie liquids take calcium from our bodies?
Damn that dihydrogen monoxide.
I must be imagining that protein I get from milk also.0 -
yes, it is healthier and yes it is a moral wrong to participate in the factory farmed foods. BUT---if a person has the stomach to kill his/her own food--that seems like the only ethical way to do it. It's true---we are too separated from the production of our meat to really grasp what it is to take the life of a fellow creature and eat it. I will not eat meat that has been factory farmed or from a source I do not personally know---that the animal has had a good life and was killed for food by the butcher himself---this doing is too profound to just pretend it doesn't happen. Have some respect. we are part of the food chain too; animals eat animals---but the way we do it with this factory farming is a perversion of nature.0
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yes, it is healthier and yes it is a moral wrong to participate in the factory farmed foods. BUT---if a person has the stomach to kill his/her own food--that seems like the only ethical way to do it. It's true---we are too separated from the production of our meat to really grasp what it is to take the life of a fellow creature and eat it. I will not eat meat that has been factory farmed or from a source I do not personally know---that the animal has had a good life and was killed for food by the butcher himself---this doing is too profound to just pretend it doesn't happen. Have some respect. we are part of the food chain too; animals eat animals---but the way we do it with this factory farming is a perversion of nature.
The meat I eat I walk by it before hand, my family prefers to pay extra and go to the local farmer/butcher who raises, kills, butchers and sells the meat. I know he's just started to hang the Christmas turkey's as I didn't see them from the bus today
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With conventional (storebought) milk, there are basically two methods of pasteurization: HTST and UHT.
HTST stands for High Temperature, Short Time. On the label, it will usually say Pasteurized. This process brings milk to no more than 165° F and holds it there for only 15-20 seconds. Shelf life of HTST milk is 2-3 weeks.
UHT stands for Ultra-High Temperature. It is also called Ultra-Pasteurized. This process heats milk to 280° F for a minimum of one second. The purpose is to make it last longer — it has shelf life of 2-3 months.
Can we accept this as common knowledge or do you need several citations?0 -
Dried fruits offers some advantages over fresh fruits: a longer shelf life and portability. If you are watching your weight, dried fruits should be eaten in moderation as they contain significantly more calories per serving than fresh fruits. Some dried fruits contain sugars added in processing which increase its calorie content. However, dried fruits without additives offer numerous health benefits.
High Fiber
Dried fruits generally contains more fiber than the same-sized serving of their fresh counterparts. Fiber helps keep your digestive system running smoothly. Dried apricots, for example, contain 6. 5 g per cup, while fresh apricots contain just 3.1 g. A cup of raisins contains 5.4 g of fiber versus just 1.4 g for seedless grapes.
Fat and Calories
Dried fruits contains little to no fat. They also contain significant calories per serving, making them a natural source of energy for athletes. They are also a good supplement for people seeking to gain weight healthfully.
Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/231523-health-benefits-of-dried-fruit/#ixzz2CWFlvKQz
Of COURSE a cup of dried fruit will have more fiber than a cup of fresh!! That is kind of a rediculous thing to say. It is like saying 300 grapes have more fiber than 20 grapes.
And "they are a good suppliment for those seeking to GAIN weight".
Aren't most of us looking to lose around this joint?? It is pretty well understood that fresh fruit is best for those of us trying to lose weight.
If you are all about veganism, then that is awesome. You most certainly won't convert many people here to veganism in this thread. I am a hardcore liberal democrat, but I am not about to try to talk everyone into believing what I believe.
"Be the change you wish to see in the world." That is the best advice I can offer here.
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I have one question for you, what is a raw vegan doing eating toast, honey and eggs?
And nanaimo bars are made with butter and cream...0 -
With conventional (storebought) milk, there are basically two methods of pasteurization: HTST and UHT.
HTST stands for High Temperature, Short Time. On the label, it will usually say Pasteurized. This process brings milk to no more than 165° F and holds it there for only 15-20 seconds. Shelf life of HTST milk is 2-3 weeks.
UHT stands for Ultra-High Temperature. It is also called Ultra-Pasteurized. This process heats milk to 280° F for a minimum of one second. The purpose is to make it last longer — it has shelf life of 2-3 months.
Can we accept this as common knowledge or do you need several citations?
accepted with the temperature etc. but how does this effect it's calcium content?0 -
Cows are pumped up by antibiotics because they are treated so poorly and are milked 20x more than they should be, causing them to have lesions (open wounds) on their utters, which oozes into the milk. Because the environment that the milk is made in is so poor, including coming from unhealthy cows that are inhumanely caged 24/7 and are fed all kinds of crap to make them overweight, the milk has to be pasteurized so much that not only all of the bad bacteria is taken out, but also all of the good bacteria and essential nutrients that we need to digest the milk and the calcium that is in it. Essentially, milk is now TAKING calcium from our own bones in order to digest this liquid nothing/empty calories that we're ingesting. Horrible, right?
And where, may I ask did you get this information. What "research" did it come from? Do you have any peer reviewed studies?
Many different documentaries. I recommend "Earthlings" for you!
Documentaries cannot be taken as fact. They are a great chance for people to manipulate circumstances to fit their agenda.
Your "research" is invalid.
^^^THIS! Plus, you can fake a documentary. People do it all the time.
Peer reviewed forums are the only thing to be trusted in these circumstances
Exactly. When it comes to health, science, medicine, ect, I only trust peer-reviewed studies.0 -
Well thank goodness you clarifies what vegans were eating. I had no idea you people existed.0
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I have one question for you, what is a raw vegan doing eating toast, honey and eggs?
And nanaimo bars are made with butter and cream...
sounds like the typical vegan.0 -
With conventional (storebought) milk, there are basically two methods of pasteurization: HTST and UHT.
HTST stands for High Temperature, Short Time. On the label, it will usually say Pasteurized. This process brings milk to no more than 165° F and holds it there for only 15-20 seconds. Shelf life of HTST milk is 2-3 weeks.
UHT stands for Ultra-High Temperature. It is also called Ultra-Pasteurized. This process heats milk to 280° F for a minimum of one second. The purpose is to make it last longer — it has shelf life of 2-3 months.
Can we accept this as common knowledge or do you need several citations?
accepted with the temperature etc. but how does this effect it's calcium content?
I would like to know this too.0 -
Calcium isn't what's stopping me from going vegan. I would do it in a heartbeat if I thought there was a chance I could do it without sacrificing protein or totally carbing out on grains/legumes. If anyone knows how I can get at least 120 g of protein a day without going over 120 carbs while eating a vegan diet and not living off supplements, please let me know.
Try checking out my intakes. I only joined yesterday, but everyday I will have new meals, and I will be trying to reach my iron, calcium, protein, carbohydrate, and (good) fat goals eating this way. I'm not perfect, and neither is this way of eating, but I believe it is much better than eating animals and processed foods.
So I took you up on that offer and took a look at your diary.
I have one question for you, what is a raw vegan doing eating toast, honey and eggs?
And granulated sugar.0 -
My spouse and I eat a whole-food plant-based diet (healthy vegan) and it works great for us. There are many things to say about it, but one thing that I think is really misunderstood is the issue of protein. If you eat a whole-food plant-based diet you will get plenty of protein. MFP shows that very clearly. Any unprocessed starch food such as grain, potato, or beans has more than enough protein. Secondly, a starch-based diet is an excellent diet for losing weight. You can't possibly eat enough grain, potato, and beans to over-consume calories. The trick for losing weight was, for us, to eliminate the extra (added) oil. People who say otherwise simply have not seriously tried it. We also eat lots of vegetables. Anyway it works well for us in terms of both losing weight and feeling great.
Unfortunately, this is the answer I always get when I ask about high protein low carb vegan diets: some form of "you don't need as much protein as you think you do." I don't think this post was necessarily intended as a response to my previous post and I don't mean to sound combative, but I think it's kind of a cop out. Many of us, for whatever reason, find the MFP recommendations for protein extremely low for our bodies' needs. As for me specifically, this is not my first rodeo. I know from experience, education, and trial and error that my body responds best to high protein and lower carb (not necessarily low carb). I look better and I feel better. I am jealous that the individual whose post I quoted achieved results they're happy with consuming lower protein and am willing to concede that they may do fine with less.
Currently, I only eat cage-free, free-range animal proteins (plus fish... but I'm not nearly as concerned with the ethical treatment of fish). This has been a way for me to balance my desire to promote kindness to animals with my desire to have a smoking hot body. I would like to cut animal flesh completely from my diet, but as of yet I have not figured out a way to do so without eating 12+ egg whites daily.
I'm getting off topic here, but this has frustrated me immensely. I have great respect for vegetarians and vegans, and anyone else who is opposed to treating intelligent animals cruelly. I just wish I could get a straight answer when I ask about protein. I'm pretty sure the answer is "it's impossible."0 -
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Well thank goodness you clarifies what vegans were eating. I had no idea you people existed.
Very few real ones do... the others just go with the fad... Then eat aborted yummy chickens.0 -
Calcium isn't what's stopping me from going vegan. I would do it in a heartbeat if I thought there was a chance I could do it without sacrificing protein or totally carbing out on grains/legumes. If anyone knows how I can get at least 120 g of protein a day without going over 120 carbs while eating a vegan diet and not living off supplements, please let me know.
Try checking out my intakes. I only joined yesterday, but everyday I will have new meals, and I will be trying to reach my iron, calcium, protein, carbohydrate, and (good) fat goals eating this way. I'm not perfect, and neither is this way of eating, but I believe it is much better than eating animals and processed foods.
So I took you up on that offer and took a look at your diary.
I have one question for you, what is a raw vegan doing eating toast, honey and eggs?
Yeah. Are you also wearing leather pants and a silk shirt?0 -
Cows do not have 'utters'. If you are so thoroughly informed about their welfare via extensive research, I would expect you to know they are called udders.
Also, dairy cows are not chained up 24/7. Perhaps you are thinking of crate-raised veal?
Calcium is not leached from bones in order to 'digest milk'. Calcium is leached to make milk, causing milk fever in some dairy cows (acute calcium deficiency which affects the nervous system, easily treated by IV calcium). Perhaps you are confused about that too.
I respect vegans who have sound ethical, nutritional or personal reasons for eschewing animal products - it's not my choice but I respect consistent and defensible points-of-view. I have no time for those who promulgate BS in faulty defense of their cause.0 -
Mmmm aborted yummy chickens are my favorite!Well thank goodness you clarifies what vegans were eating. I had no idea you people existed.
Very few real ones do... the others just go with the fad... Then eat aborted yummy chickens.0 -
With conventional (storebought) milk, there are basically two methods of pasteurization: HTST and UHT.
HTST stands for High Temperature, Short Time. On the label, it will usually say Pasteurized. This process brings milk to no more than 165° F and holds it there for only 15-20 seconds. Shelf life of HTST milk is 2-3 weeks.
UHT stands for Ultra-High Temperature. It is also called Ultra-Pasteurized. This process heats milk to 280° F for a minimum of one second. The purpose is to make it last longer — it has shelf life of 2-3 months.
Can we accept this as common knowledge or do you need several citations?
accepted with the temperature etc. but how does this effect it's calcium content?
I would like to know this too.
You know what's funny, I can't find a single peer reviewed studying into showing that it removes a significant amount of nutrients (one, on wiki of all places, said there were minor losses of vitamins but are commonly found in other sources in healthy diets but it didn't note anything about a loss of calcium (at least during my skim read it didn't) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk ).
Show me a peer reviewed bit of evidence and I will (if I've not gone to sleep) read it and reply, if I don't I'm sure someone else will on my behalf.
Before you go complaining to the mods about 'attacking' 'aggressive' etc. please remember this is a discussion where people will take the opposing side to you and ask for proof. If you have some how taken offence to something I've said please point it out- I'm a nice person and I don't mean to be rude but I do stand by scientific evidence before personal and moral opinions.0 -
Great copy and paste but you really should give credit where it is due.With conventional (storebought) milk, there are basically two methods of pasteurization: HTST and UHT.
HTST stands for High Temperature, Short Time. On the label, it will usually say Pasteurized. This process brings milk to no more than 165° F and holds it there for only 15-20 seconds. Shelf life of HTST milk is 2-3 weeks.
UHT stands for Ultra-High Temperature. It is also called Ultra-Pasteurized. This process heats milk to 280° F for a minimum of one second. The purpose is to make it last longer — it has shelf life of 2-3 months.
Can we accept this as common knowledge or do you need several citations?
http://www.musingsofahousewife.com/2010/03/what-is-the-difference-between-pasteurized-and-ultra-pasteurized.html0 -
QUOTE:
Cows are pumped up by antibiotics because they are treated so poorly and are milked 20x more than they should be, causing them to have lesions (open wounds) on their utters, which oozes into the milk. Because the environment that the milk is made in is so poor, including coming from unhealthy cows that are inhumanely caged 24/7 and are fed all kinds of crap to make them overweight, the milk has to be pasteurized so much that not only all of the bad bacteria is taken out, but also all of the good bacteria and essential nutrients that we need to digest the milk and the calcium that is in it. Essentially, milk is now TAKING calcium from our own bones in order to digest this liquid nothing/empty calories that we're ingesting. Horrible, right?
Don't know where you're from but here in the UK (and EU) you'll find practices like this are illegal under several animal rights acts. Perhaps you should considering moving instead of a change of diet? The milk we have here is pasteurized, but also high in calcium (so is cheese of both variations), for it to remove calcium from the milk it'd have to be heated up so high well... damn there wouldn't be anything left O:
^^This, excellent question. I'm not going to get in a debate about this because it's a waste of time and the OP obviously knows everything (sarcasm...I of course knew everything at 21 as well haha). But as a 4th generation dairy farmer these "facts" are hilarious too me. It depends on the country you are in, but here in Canada where I'm from there are strict guidelines that must be followed for dairy production. There is NO hormones in our milk, we have animal rights acts as well, farms are still mostly run my families and there are no oozing sores, cows are let out to graze in pastures not "caged", they are not overweight....man I can go on and on. The OP should talk to a farmer and not just surf the internet and make ridiculous statements that insult my families business.0 -
I think the original post had more scare tactics and opinion versus the real facts of why the vegan life.
I personally love animal meat, we are animals and we eat meat. I also love it medium raw.. sometimes I like to know my food had a heart beat. But since watching Food Inc I do go for more humanely and organic meats.0 -
The best source I have found for objective and scientific protein requirements is from the World Health Organization http://www.who.int/nutrition/publications/nutrientrequirements/WHO_TRS_935/en/index.html - WHO essentially states that the average requirement is .66 g/kg protein a day for adults. For a 75 kg (165 lb) person that comes to 50 grams a day. I get that amount easily with a plant based diet. Maybe you just need more protein than the average person.0
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@featherandfern: I notice you just joined MFP this month. You may not be aware that they are group forums with people who like to discuss this topic without rancor. Here are a couple: Happy herbivores and Team Vegan.
In my experience, most people who post on the open forums have figured things out for themselves. Most are perfectly satisfied, and may get insulted by someone coming on here and advocating a particular diet.
Please message me if you can't find your way to the group forums.0
This discussion has been closed.
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