Vegan lifestyle and Awareness about what we're eating!

envy09

Just a quick question. Would you say the main reason you decided to go vegan was more health or morality related?

Sarauk2sf

Essentially, milk is now TAKING calcium from our own bones in order to digest this liquid nothing/empty calories that we're ingesting.

Lolz.....brb... just collapsing under the weight of my brittle bones.

Athijade

Ironanimal, are you sure this is the topic for you? You seem very hostile in your responses. If you have some information counter to the original post, please share the URL. Otherwise, your aggression is unwelcome. I'm sure you haven't forgotten these boards are moderated.

He has not done anything wrong what so ever. He is simply asking for proof of the statement presented as fact... which has not been given yet. It is only fair that if the OP is making statements as fact that they back them up. Otherwise, it's just more junk "science" that is out there which is one thing this site does NOT need more of.

So yes, the OP should show peer reviewed scientific information that backs up the claims made.

cathdrew2

I'm not following this topic to write a thesis. If you have a counter-position, feel free to research it / back it up, don't just attack. If you see no benefits to a vegan lifestyle, choose a new topic.

Sarauk2sf

Oh, and B12?

frando

I watched this programme, the Food Hospital, and there is a section about people who have extreme diets. One was a fruitarian /vegan(until the programme I didn't know a 'frutarian' was such a thing). Anyway, he existed mainly off fruits and the occasional vegetable- turns out he's put himself into diabetes and has such poor bone health that if he had a fall and broke something he'd have the same chances of it repairing normally as someone nearly triple his age.

Personally, extreme and sweeping diets like the one you suggest seem pointless. We, as humans, have evolved to be omnivores (unless you have genetic weakness (family friend for example can't digest high quantities of protein and thus will never know the joy of a good steak)) removing a large portion of what we're designed to eat is a bit silly; it'd be like buying a hybrid car and refusing to put petrol/gas in it and forcing it to rely on the electric power only, not only is this going against what it's made to do but it's also very hard to live with (at least here in the UK very few places have electric re-powering stations). To put it simply, and to quote my mother, 'you have canines for a reason'.

BoatReadyBody

So glad you enjoy your choice and we all have our own way becuase. I like to kill what I eat. No hormones. I have to have meat!! I like veggies as well but a big bloody steak every now and then does it for me to.

Sarauk2sf

Ironanimal, are you sure this is the topic for you? You seem very hostile in your responses. If you have some information counter to the original post, please share the URL. Otherwise, your aggression is unwelcome. I'm sure you haven't forgotten these boards are moderated.

Huh?

ironanimal

Essentially, milk is now TAKING calcium from our own bones in order to digest this liquid nothing/empty calories that we're ingesting.

Lolz.....brb... just collapsing under the weight of my brittle bones.

I hadn't seen that.

So empty calorie liquids take calcium from our bodies?

Damn that dihydrogen monoxide.

SuperSexyDork

Calcium isn't what's stopping me from going vegan. I would do it in a heartbeat if I thought there was a chance I could do it without sacrificing protein or totally carbing out on grains/legumes. If anyone knows how I can get at least 120 g of protein a day without going over 120 carbs while eating a vegan diet and not living off supplements, please let me know.

Try checking out my intakes. I only joined yesterday, but everyday I will have new meals, and I will be trying to reach my iron, calcium, protein, carbohydrate, and (good) fat goals eating this way. I'm not perfect, and neither is this way of eating, but I believe it is much better than eating animals and processed foods.

So I took you up on that offer and took a look at your diary.

I have one question for you, what is a raw vegan doing eating toast, honey and eggs?

frando

Cows are pumped up by antibiotics because they are treated so poorly and are milked 20x more than they should be, causing them to have lesions (open wounds) on their utters, which oozes into the milk. Because the environment that the milk is made in is so poor, including coming from unhealthy cows that are inhumanely caged 24/7 and are fed all kinds of crap to make them overweight, the milk has to be pasteurized so much that not only all of the bad bacteria is taken out, but also all of the good bacteria and essential nutrients that we need to digest the milk and the calcium that is in it. Essentially, milk is now TAKING calcium from our own bones in order to digest this liquid nothing/empty calories that we're ingesting. Horrible, right?

Don't know where you're from but here in the UK (and EU) you'll find practices like this are illegal under several animal rights acts. Perhaps you should considering moving instead of a change of diet? The milk we have here is pasteurized, but also high in calcium (so is cheese of both variations), for it to remove calcium from the milk it'd have to be heated up so high well... damn there wouldn't be anything left O:

BoatReadyBody

Cows are pumped up by antibiotics because they are treated so poorly and are milked 20x more than they should be, causing them to have lesions (open wounds) on their utters, which oozes into the milk. Because the environment that the milk is made in is so poor, including coming from unhealthy cows that are inhumanely caged 24/7 and are fed all kinds of crap to make them overweight, the milk has to be pasteurized so much that not only all of the bad bacteria is taken out, but also all of the good bacteria and essential nutrients that we need to digest the milk and the calcium that is in it. Essentially, milk is now TAKING calcium from our own bones in order to digest this liquid nothing/empty calories that we're ingesting. Horrible, right?

And where, may I ask did you get this information. What "research" did it come from? Do you have any peer reviewed studies?

Many different documentaries. I recommend "Earthlings" for you!

Earthlings..lmao. Funny.... enough said..

mnearing2000

My spouse and I eat a whole-food plant-based diet (healthy vegan) and it works great for us. There are many things to say about it, but one thing that I think is really misunderstood is the issue of protein. If you eat a whole-food plant-based diet you will get plenty of protein. MFP shows that very clearly. Any unprocessed starch food such as grain, potato, or beans has more than enough protein. Secondly, a starch-based diet is an excellent diet for losing weight. You can't possibly eat enough grain, potato, and beans to over-consume calories. The trick for losing weight was, for us, to eliminate the extra (added) oil. People who say otherwise simply have not seriously tried it. We also eat lots of vegetables. Anyway it works well for us in terms of both losing weight and feeling great.

SuperSexyDork

I'm not following this topic to write a thesis. If you have a counter-position, feel free to research it / back it up, don't just attack. If you see no benefits to a vegan lifestyle, choose a new topic.

And I'm not here to attack.

In debate it is logical for you to have credible sources backing up your "facts" and opinions.

I was simply looking to be educated on the benefits of a vegan lifestyle because I do spend a lot of time reading peer reviewed nutrition studies and have never encountered one that proved a vegan diet was any better than a healthy balanced diet.

_happycats_

Cows are pumped up by antibiotics because they are treated so poorly and are milked 20x more than they should be, causing them to have lesions (open wounds) on their utters, which oozes into the milk. Because the environment that the milk is made in is so poor, including coming from unhealthy cows that are inhumanely caged 24/7 and are fed all kinds of crap to make them overweight, the milk has to be pasteurized so much that not only all of the bad bacteria is taken out, but also all of the good bacteria and essential nutrients that we need to digest the milk and the calcium that is in it. Essentially, milk is now TAKING calcium from our own bones in order to digest this liquid nothing/empty calories that we're ingesting. Horrible, right?

...speaking of myths!! Wow, you must have been raised right on a dairy farm you know the scenario so well, right??

Oh, what's that? You've never been on a farm or even talked to anyone who has? Youtube doesn't count.

But seriously, there are strict guidelines on milk surveillance and what type of milk quality is sold for consumption. They're not "pumped up by antibiotics", "treated so poorly", "milked 20x more than they should be", nor do they have "lesions on their utters, which ooze into the milk". They are not "inhumanely caged 24/7" or "fed all kinds of crap to make them overweight". As someone with a formal education on the subject (who has been to several dairy farms), every part of the cow section of your post is false. Please verify your facts with credible sources or visit an actual dairy farm before posting a bunch of garbage statements you found on the internet. This is how awful rumors get spread - people who don't fact check and take everything on the internet for truth.

frando

Cows are pumped up by antibiotics because they are treated so poorly and are milked 20x more than they should be, causing them to have lesions (open wounds) on their utters, which oozes into the milk. Because the environment that the milk is made in is so poor, including coming from unhealthy cows that are inhumanely caged 24/7 and are fed all kinds of crap to make them overweight, the milk has to be pasteurized so much that not only all of the bad bacteria is taken out, but also all of the good bacteria and essential nutrients that we need to digest the milk and the calcium that is in it. Essentially, milk is now TAKING calcium from our own bones in order to digest this liquid nothing/empty calories that we're ingesting. Horrible, right?

And where, may I ask did you get this information. What "research" did it come from? Do you have any peer reviewed studies?

Many different documentaries. I recommend "Earthlings" for you!

Documentaries cannot be taken as fact. They are a great chance for people to manipulate circumstances to fit their agenda.

Your "research" is invalid.

^^^THIS! Plus, you can fake a documentary. People do it all the time.

Peer reviewed forums are the only thing to be trusted in these circumstances

Sarauk2sf

Essentially, milk is now TAKING calcium from our own bones in order to digest this liquid nothing/empty calories that we're ingesting.

Lolz.....brb... just collapsing under the weight of my brittle bones.

I hadn't seen that.

So empty calorie liquids take calcium from our bodies?

Damn that dihydrogen monoxide.

I must be imagining that protein I get from milk also.

rosesigil

yes, it is healthier and yes it is a moral wrong to participate in the factory farmed foods. BUT---if a person has the stomach to kill his/her own food--that seems like the only ethical way to do it. It's true---we are too separated from the production of our meat to really grasp what it is to take the life of a fellow creature and eat it. I will not eat meat that has been factory farmed or from a source I do not personally know---that the animal has had a good life and was killed for food by the butcher himself---this doing is too profound to just pretend it doesn't happen. Have some respect. we are part of the food chain too; animals eat animals---but the way we do it with this factory farming is a perversion of nature.

frando

yes, it is healthier and yes it is a moral wrong to participate in the factory farmed foods. BUT---if a person has the stomach to kill his/her own food--that seems like the only ethical way to do it. It's true---we are too separated from the production of our meat to really grasp what it is to take the life of a fellow creature and eat it. I will not eat meat that has been factory farmed or from a source I do not personally know---that the animal has had a good life and was killed for food by the butcher himself---this doing is too profound to just pretend it doesn't happen. Have some respect. we are part of the food chain too; animals eat animals---but the way we do it with this factory farming is a perversion of nature.

The meat I eat I walk by it before hand, my family prefers to pay extra and go to the local farmer/butcher who raises, kills, butchers and sells the meat. I know he's just started to hang the Christmas turkey's as I didn't see them from the bus today

cathdrew2

With conventional (storebought) milk, there are basically two methods of pasteurization: HTST and UHT.

HTST stands for High Temperature, Short Time. On the label, it will usually say Pasteurized. This process brings milk to no more than 165° F and holds it there for only 15-20 seconds. Shelf life of HTST milk is 2-3 weeks.

UHT stands for Ultra-High Temperature. It is also called Ultra-Pasteurized. This process heats milk to 280° F for a minimum of one second. The purpose is to make it last longer — it has shelf life of 2-3 months.

Can we accept this as common knowledge or do you need several citations?