Vegan lifestyle and Awareness about what we're eating!

cathdrew2

Iron, countering g00dm0rning's post on Sat 11/17/12 04:17 PM was my point.

That quote: "Also, just to point out UHT pastuerization is not typically used for the milk that normal consumers buy. It's often used in food preparation in places like fast food restaurants and allows the milk to remain unspoiled at room temperature."

And your comment that you perceived my post to support pasteurization as "safe". I believe the OP's comments on packaged milk to have originated from a concern with UHT, which is being used more and more, even in organic milk, which some people choose as a healthier alternative. I grew up on lots of pasteurized milk and don't have any evidence that there is a problem with the basic act of pasteurization...but that not what we typically have as an option in the grocery store.

Sarauk2sf

I agree with you, SaraUK2sf.

It was a joke, my god. I eat vegetables as well. I know many vegan/vegetarians. I wasn't aware that debating about what each other eats was a serious, life or death matter. I'll leave you to it.

A very bad joke.

Sarauk2sf

I agree with you, SaraUK2sf.

It was a joke, my god. I eat vegetable as well. I know many vegan/vegetarians. I wasn't aware that debating about what each other eats was a serious, life or death matter. I'll leave you to it.

I've seen this image more times than I can count on these vegan threads. Repetitive things cease to be funny.

Forgive me for not amusing you. I tend to avoid these threads for this very reason.

Probably for the best.

keem88

forks over knives is a great documentary if you haven't seen it. i try to get my milk and eggs from local farms, i have been a lacto-ovo vegetarian for about 10 years. i have been thinking about cutting dairy out though, just because it is expensive to get the really good stuff and even then, you don't know how "cage free" those animals really are. eating a raw plant based diet can reverse a lot of health problems, and overall is very good for you, as long as you are eating enough of the nutrients you need.

Sarauk2sf

Don't get your panties in a bunch, it's called a sense of humor.

Nice edit.....too late though. And I would beg to differ.

I was removing it since it offended. Now that you're being hostile towards me, I'm not as concerned. Seriously...

Ironic post is ironic - please see your first and then edited post - lolz

slkehl

Where did you get that she said people are rude and mean from? VoV was just suggesting a group that may be beneficial to the OP.

Agreed, I thought VoV's response was very polite and thoughtful. OP, on the other hand, has not bothered to return and defend the fact that she's trying to inform us of the terrible evils of milk while at the same time having dairy in her food journal.

Yes, VoV, I appreciate how you share your perspective and are willing to participate in respectful conversation. I've certainly learned a lot from you in these forums.

Anyway, about antibiotics...
Cows that are treated with antibiotics for mastitis have ALL of their milk WITHHELD from consumption until there are no detectable levels of antibiotics in the milk. There is a positive correlation between cows that produce more milk and the incidence of mastitis, which is a bacterial infection in the udder. Most cows don't have this, and farmers do everything they can to keep the udders of their cows healthy. Farmers who violate this and let antibiotics into their bulk tanks would be penalized very very heavily for it, so they don't do it.

suziecue66

Calcium isn't what's stopping me from going vegan. I would do it in a heartbeat if I thought there was a chance I could do it without sacrificing protein or totally carbing out on grains/legumes. If anyone knows how I can get at least 120 g of protein a day without going over 120 carbs while eating a vegan diet and not living off supplements, please let me know.

Try checking out my intakes. I only joined yesterday, but everyday I will have new meals, and I will be trying to reach my iron, calcium, protein, carbohydrate, and (good) fat goals eating this way. I'm not perfect, and neither is this way of eating, but I believe it is much better than eating animals and processed foods.

Good luck to you but this is a place to log your calories and discuss certain topics. Not a place to convert people to veganism.

_VoV

Where did you get that she said people are rude and mean from? VoV was just suggesting a group that may be beneficial to the OP.

Agreed, I thought VoV's response was very polite and thoughtful. OP, on the other hand, has not bothered to return and defend the fact that she's trying to inform us of the terrible evils of milk while at the same time having dairy in her food journal.

Yes, VoV, I appreciate how you share your perspective and are willing to participate in respectful conversation. I've certainly learned a lot from you in these forums.

Anyway, about antibiotics...
Cows that are treated with antibiotics for mastitis have ALL of their milk WITHHELD from consumption until there are no detectable levels of antibiotics in the milk. There is a positive correlation between cows that produce more milk and the incidence of mastitis, which is a bacterial infection in the udder. Most cows don't have this, and farmers do everything they can to keep the udders of their cows healthy. Farmers who violate this and let antibiotics into their bulk tanks would be penalized very very heavily for it, so they don't do it.

Thanks for the kind words. I have learned a lot from you, as well, including this info on antibiotics in cow's milk. I agree farmers are highly motivated to keep their cattle in prime health. Some members of my family drink raw milk from a local farmer, and the cleanliness on that farm is totally amazing.

FitSid

Vegans who post **** like this or say **** like this is why people hate vegans.

Shut up and keep your opinions to yourself. If people cared, they would find the information for themself.
It is ridiculous to think you're going to change the world after submitting one "the government is against us, go vegan" post.

Plus I agree, documentaries can be faked, science is debatable between different studies, you're just, you're just making vegans look bad.

spisea

Here is a link to a source of reliable, scientifically based information about vegan diets. It come from a professional dietitian with a degree and a ton of experience.

http://www.theveganrd.com

On this page, there is plenty of information about solid scientific research about vegan diets, including questions like how we get enough protein and calcium. This is a really interesting article about calcium, that I suspect many of you will have to agree is quiet well balanced. http://www.theveganrd.com/2010/12/new-vitamin-d-and-calcium-rdas-what-they-mean-for-vegans.html

Unfortunately, there is a lot of inflammatory, pseudo-scientific nonsense out there about vegan diets. But to be fair, their is a ton more inflammatory, pseudo-scientific non-sense about non-vegan diets. Because we are out of the mainstream, people seem to hold us to a higher standard, which, when you think about it, isn't really fair.

yourenotmine

My spouse and I eat a whole-food plant-based diet (healthy vegan) and it works great for us. There are many things to say about it, but one thing that I think is really misunderstood is the issue of protein. If you eat a whole-food plant-based diet you will get plenty of protein. MFP shows that very clearly. Any unprocessed starch food such as grain, potato, or beans has more than enough protein. Secondly, a starch-based diet is an excellent diet for losing weight. You can't possibly eat enough grain, potato, and beans to over-consume calories. The trick for losing weight was, for us, to eliminate the extra (added) oil. People who say otherwise simply have not seriously tried it. We also eat lots of vegetables. Anyway it works well for us in terms of both losing weight and feeling great.

Unfortunately, this is the answer I always get when I ask about high protein low carb vegan diets: some form of "you don't need as much protein as you think you do." I don't think this post was necessarily intended as a response to my previous post and I don't mean to sound combative, but I think it's kind of a cop out. Many of us, for whatever reason, find the MFP recommendations for protein extremely low for our bodies' needs. As for me specifically, this is not my first rodeo. I know from experience, education, and trial and error that my body responds best to high protein and lower carb (not necessarily low carb). I look better and I feel better. I am jealous that the individual whose post I quoted achieved results they're happy with consuming lower protein and am willing to concede that they may do fine with less.

Currently, I only eat cage-free, free-range animal proteins (plus fish... but I'm not nearly as concerned with the ethical treatment of fish). This has been a way for me to balance my desire to promote kindness to animals with my desire to have a smoking hot body. I would like to cut animal flesh completely from my diet, but as of yet I have not figured out a way to do so without eating 12+ egg whites daily.

I'm getting off topic here, but this has frustrated me immensely. I have great respect for vegetarians and vegans, and anyone else who is opposed to treating intelligent animals cruelly. I just wish I could get a straight answer when I ask about protein. I'm pretty sure the answer is "it's impossible."

Yes, I'm pretty sure the answer is "it's impossible", too. (to your original question, regarding high protein/low carb VEGAN eating, at least if you don't wish to use protein supplements). I wish I could help with that. I don't feel that my protein needs are very high, so I find a vegetarian diet to be fine for me. I applaud your efforts to maintain your choices ethically. With planning, I think you could do this on a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet, so maybe if you check out some vegetarian or vegan body builders and what they eat daily, it would help?

alaskaang

Calcium isn't what's stopping me from going vegan. I would do it in a heartbeat if I thought there was a chance I could do it without sacrificing protein or totally carbing out on grains/legumes. If anyone knows how I can get at least 120 g of protein a day without going over 120 carbs while eating a vegan diet and not living off supplements, please let me know.

Try checking out my intakes. I only joined yesterday, but everyday I will have new meals, and I will be trying to reach my iron, calcium, protein, carbohydrate, and (good) fat goals eating this way. I'm not perfect, and neither is this way of eating, but I believe it is much better than eating animals and processed foods.

So I took you up on that offer and took a look at your diary.

I have one question for you, what is a raw vegan doing eating toast, honey and eggs?

And granulated sugar.

WOW! How do you expect anyone to follow your advice if you don't even grasp the basics of the way of eating you are promoting. I'm not vegan or vegetarian, but at least I know what it is! Haven't read the whole thread yet, but if you don't know that eggs and honey aren't vegan, then I'm guessing you are scratching your head wondering what is wrong with granulated sugar.

Enigmatica

I recently tried vegan diet for a week out of curiosity. There was just no way I was going to hit my protein goal without blowing carbs through the roof except to use vegan protein powders. It was okay for a week and I didn't have a problem with craving meat (maybe because I kept protein level in usual range) but I found it to be much more expensive and time consuming than just adding a bit of chicken or fish now and then.

alaskaang

@featherandfern: I notice you just joined MFP this month. You may not be aware that they are group forums with people who like to discuss this topic without rancor. Here are a couple: Happy herbivores and Team Vegan.

In my experience, most people who post on the open forums have figured things out for themselves. Most are perfectly satisfied, and may get insulted by someone coming on here and advocating a particular diet.

Please message me if you can't find your way to the group forums.

Yes this^ You will find MFP to be often a bit hostile towards vegetarian and vegans especially when you post to the general boards. But I do think those of us who are vegans/vegetarians would be happy to discuss this topic. So I second the suggestion from the poster I quoted above. Welcome to MFP

I'm honestly surprised that those who are vegan are not offended by the OP's post. If you check her diary, she is clearly NOT vegan and obviously has no clue as to what it means.

jofjltncb6

In...


I'm not even through the first page yet, but a documentary and a livestrong article as conclusive evidence? And an apparent belief that beef can only be obtained from CAFO cattle? Oh yes, I'm in. (And no doubt, I'm sure many will be called "mean" for disagreeing.)

ETA: Looks like this thread spiraled into the ground before I got here. Oh well. Maybe I'll catch the next one.

pinkraynedropjacki

I don't mind how or what people eat, much like religion. As long as they do NOT try scare tactics or forcing their opinion on me or my family.

I'm a 100% supporter of animals & their rights. Both with money & time. I do however still eat meat, drink milk & have animal byproducts.


You are happy with your choice as I am with mine. DO NOT try to use scare tactics to get my opinion changed.

pinkraynedropjacki

@featherandfern: I notice you just joined MFP this month. You may not be aware that they are group forums with people who like to discuss this topic without rancor. Here are a couple: Happy herbivores and Team Vegan.

In my experience, most people who post on the open forums have figured things out for themselves. Most are perfectly satisfied, and may get insulted by someone coming on here and advocating a particular diet.

Please message me if you can't find your way to the group forums.

Yes this^ You will find MFP to be often a bit hostile towards vegetarian and vegans especially when you post to the general boards. But I do think those of us who are vegans/vegetarians would be happy to discuss this topic. So I second the suggestion from the poster I quoted above. Welcome to MFP

I'm honestly surprised that those who are vegan are not offended by the OP's post. If you check her diary, she is clearly NOT vegan and obviously has no clue as to what it means.

Yep someone who is vegan would clearly not eat eggs at the very least.

becketyblue

I've been doing a lot of reading about a plant-based lifestyle. If you want the science behind it and don't mind a long, detailed, sometimes boring read, check out The China Study. It's fascinating.

I feel best and strongest when eating a mostly plant based diet, whereas many of my clients feel best eating more animal proteins. (I'm a personal trainer.) Everyone needs to find the way of eating that makes them feel and look their best--there is no one right way.

That said...I still love a good cheeseburger on occasion.

Ocarina

Vegans who post **** like this or say **** like this is why people hate vegans.

Shut up and keep your opinions to yourself. If people cared, they would find the information for themself.
It is ridiculous to think you're going to change the world after submitting one "the government is against us, go vegan" post.

Plus I agree, documentaries can be faked, science is debatable between different studies, you're just, you're just making vegans look bad.

A little angry aren't we? You're making yourself look really immature being so harsh in a healthy discussion. And you're the only one that's mentioned any hate towards a specific group. Come back when you think you can express your opinion with more substance and less anger maybe?

I did 'lol at the fact this lady eats eggs and claims veganism. Just need educated I think... unless they are confusing themselves with vegetarianism.

I personally follow as close as I can to a vegan diet. I do it mainly because it's the diet that makes me the happiest and have soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much fun with the cooking part of it. I make three cooked meals a day almost all from scratch so I feel very clean. But I don't limit myself and get snobby about it. There's so much fun to be had when you understand what you are putting in your body whether it's meat or diary or vegetables. I really recommend everyone to research as much as you can about what goes into our food. You'll come out more knowledgeable and healthier because of it. There is A LOT of garbage to sift through and all foods have an "unhealthy" version of themselves laced with chemicals and nasty additives.

painauxraisin

Cows are pumped up by antibiotics because they are treated so poorly and are milked 20x more than they should be, causing them to have lesions (open wounds) on their utters, which oozes into the milk. Because the environment that the milk is made in is so poor, including coming from unhealthy cows that are inhumanely caged 24/7 and are fed all kinds of crap to make them overweight, the milk has to be pasteurized so much that not only all of the bad bacteria is taken out, but also all of the good bacteria and essential nutrients that we need to digest the milk and the calcium that is in it. Essentially, milk is now TAKING calcium from our own bones in order to digest this liquid nothing/empty calories that we're ingesting. Horrible, right?


Not all cows are mistreated!! It must be hell where you live!
I tried to use the 'quote' thing for op's post but it didn't work. PLEASE realise I'm quoting the OP !!!

jofjltncb6

I see we added FoK and The China Study overnight.

Good work so far. We're picking up some more of the main points. Keep going.

SuperSexyDork

I see we added FoK and The China Study overnight.

Good work so far. We're picking up some more of the main points. Keep going.

We're going to all the predictable places... HOORAY!

_VoV

I see we added FoK and The China Study overnight.

Good work so far. We're picking up some more of the main points. Keep going.

This sounds a little cynical to me. New people should be able to hash around things we oldtimers have seen before. I, for one, have no desire to try to convince anyone of anything pertaining to diet. I have my own reasons for favoring veganism, and that's about all I want to say about it.

SuperSexyDork

I see we added FoK and The China Study overnight.

Good work so far. We're picking up some more of the main points. Keep going.

This sounds a little cynical to me. New people should be able to hash around things we oldtimers have seen before. I, for one, have no desire to try to convince anyone of anything pertaining to diet. I have my own reasons for favoring veganism, and that's about all I want to say about it.

You're right... and I was a little snarky in my last post so I apologize.

kenazfehu

I wish a vegan lifestyle had worked for me, but I had no energy and felt awful on it.

What you say about dairy cattle - not true - not around here, anyway. I lived in a valley full of dairy farms for 20 years and saw how the cows were treated. They had pastures, were milked twice per day, had special mats on the floor of the barn to protect the cow's feet (standing on concrete isn't good for you), etc.

03428

Stop with the vegan hate!
Also, vegans, add me

TaraKathleen5

Cows are pumped up by antibiotics because they are treated so poorly and are milked 20x more than they should be, causing them to have lesions (open wounds) on their utters, which oozes into the milk. Because the environment that the milk is made in is so poor, including coming from unhealthy cows that are inhumanely caged 24/7 and are fed all kinds of crap to make them overweight, the milk has to be pasteurized so much that not only all of the bad bacteria is taken out, but also all of the good bacteria and essential nutrients that we need to digest the milk and the calcium that is in it. Essentially, milk is now TAKING calcium from our own bones in order to digest this liquid nothing/empty calories that we're ingesting. Horrible, right?

And where, may I ask did you get this information. What "research" did it come from? Do you have any peer reviewed studies?

Many different documentaries. I recommend "Earthlings" for you!

It's all true. you tube some stuff.

teresacc26

lol i agree
such anger on this forum..if u dont like it jus close the page

teresacc26

Vegans who post **** like this or say **** like this is why people hate vegans.

Shut up and keep your opinions to yourself. If people cared, they would find the information for themself.
It is ridiculous to think you're going to change the world after submitting one "the government is against us, go vegan" post.

Plus I agree, documentaries can be faked, science is debatable between different studies, you're just, you're just making vegans look bad.

A little angry aren't we? You're making yourself look really immature being so harsh in a healthy discussion. And you're the only one that's mentioned any hate towards a specific group. Come back when you think you can express your opinion with more substance and less anger maybe?

I did 'lol at the fact this lady eats eggs and claims veganism. Just need educated I think... unless they are confusing themselves with vegetarianism.

lol exactly

daffodilsoup

A post like this might be better suited toward a group - feel free to search Happy Herbivores or Team Vegan.

Generally, a post like this that isn't made in response to someone's question about a vegan lifestyle garners nothing but negative attention.