Vegan lifestyle and Awareness about what we're eating!

SuperSexyDork

lol i agree
such anger on this forum..if u dont like it jus close the page

I don't think there is a lot of anger here. If you think that asking for peer reviewed studies and wondering why someone who professes to be a raw vegan and makes a post about it eats things that are against that lifestyle is anger, I feel a little bit sorry for you.

SueGremlin

Cows are pumped up by antibiotics because they are treated so poorly and are milked 20x more than they should be, causing them to have lesions (open wounds) on their utters, which oozes into the milk. Because the environment that the milk is made in is so poor, including coming from unhealthy cows that are inhumanely caged 24/7 and are fed all kinds of crap to make them overweight, the milk has to be pasteurized so much that not only all of the bad bacteria is taken out, but also all of the good bacteria and essential nutrients that we need to digest the milk and the calcium that is in it. Essentially, milk is now TAKING calcium from our own bones in order to digest this liquid nothing/empty calories that we're ingesting. Horrible, right?

This is absolutely and completely false. Please do not spread these lies on the internet and do some (reading other than animal rights sites) before repeating this crap.

SueGremlin

Cows are pumped up by antibiotics because they are treated so poorly and are milked 20x more than they should be, causing them to have lesions (open wounds) on their utters, which oozes into the milk. Because the environment that the milk is made in is so poor, including coming from unhealthy cows that are inhumanely caged 24/7 and are fed all kinds of crap to make them overweight, the milk has to be pasteurized so much that not only all of the bad bacteria is taken out, but also all of the good bacteria and essential nutrients that we need to digest the milk and the calcium that is in it. Essentially, milk is now TAKING calcium from our own bones in order to digest this liquid nothing/empty calories that we're ingesting. Horrible, right?

And where, may I ask did you get this information. What "research" did it come from? Do you have any peer reviewed studies?

Many different documentaries. I recommend "Earthlings" for you!

It's all true. you tube some stuff.

Nothing in that statement is true. Other than cows give milk. The rest is garbage.

SueGremlin

For the record, I respect people who are vegan for both health and moral reasons. I have no issue with this. I have issues with people spreading lies to promote their agenda. You don't need to do that and are only harming your agenda.

I have a BS in agricultural animal science with an emphasis in dairy cattle, and an MS in biology. It pisses me off to see these lies posted as gospel when it is obvious that the threat starter has none of her facts straight.

Make your decisions based on facts, not lies.

mnearing2000

How much protein do you need a day - how many grams?

TexasTroy

Mankind was born to eat meat......thats why we have hunting rifles:)

HypersonicFitNess

Very volatile thread...hmm

I am not vegetarian or vegan. But I do try to incorporate a lot of raw fresh organic fruits and vegetables into my diet. I also try to limit gluten (sometimes my local store does not have my gluten free bread so I buy sprouted grain); I also limit my dairy (but I do love real cheese). I only drink almond milk...these are all for health reasons. I also limit the meat I eat; I do eat chicken and turkey, occasionally beef (try to get grass fed, organic), and the closest I get to pork is the occasional slice of Canadian bacon; I also eat organic, hormone free eggs.

There are studies, that show higher or even a complete raw vegan life style is more healthy for you, as it does create a more alkaline ph balance in your body where disease and cancers do not thrive (they thrive in acidic ph)......and yes you can get every nutrient you need from eating a raw vegan diet IF you are eating a healthy raw vegan diet because it is possible to eat like crap on any diet. You also need to eat a wide range (great variety) of foods...but again that is something you should do not matter what type of diet you are following.

http://drleonardcoldwell.com/ -- this was how I got started

http://anydoubtleaveitout.com/

http://www.thebestofrawfood.com/

http://hippocratesinst.com/

http://www.wellwithu.com/

http://www.amazon.com/Food-Formula-Health-Paul-Nison/dp/1570672164 -- I bought his book as well as another one

http://www.RawFoodfortheRealWorld.com

I also took a 16 week course from the Raw Gourmet and she had a different speaker on every week to discuss different aspects of health and the quality of current food; it was quite enlightening. Now I will say that I take everything with a grain of salt...I don't believe 100% of everything I read and hear....but I do collect both sides of the argument and then make my own educated decisions.

_VoV

@featherandfern: I notice you just joined MFP this month. You may not be aware that they are group forums with people who like to discuss this topic without rancor. Here are a couple: Happy herbivores and Team Vegan.

In my experience, most people who post on the open forums have figured things out for themselves. Most are perfectly satisfied, and may get insulted by someone coming on here and advocating a particular diet.

Please message me if you can't find your way to the group forums.

Yes this^ You will find MFP to be often a bit hostile towards vegetarian and vegans especially when you post to the general boards. But I do think those of us who are vegans/vegetarians would be happy to discuss this topic. So I second the suggestion from the poster I quoted above. Welcome to MFP

I'm honestly surprised that those who are vegan are not offended by the OP's post. If you check her diary, she is clearly NOT vegan and obviously has no clue as to what it means.

I read the OP's posting to be a starting point for discussion. She was sharing her experience and a tidbit or two from her reading. People should be able to come here and do that. And, my thoughts on her being an imperfect vegan? We live in countries (the OP and I, plus many others here) which use a lot of animal products in various ways. It's hard, and probably impossible, to be 100%, but being 'vegan at heart' is totally possible and (in my opinion), a worthwhile thing. I will not say *why* I think veganism is worthwhile. Some people interpret talking up of veganism as condemnation of their own different choices, and I don't want to indirectly insult anyone here.

Edit: typo

TheeGeeMarie

Calcium isn't what's stopping me from going vegan. I would do it in a heartbeat if I thought there was a chance I could do it without sacrificing protein or totally carbing out on grains/legumes. If anyone knows how I can get at least 120 g of protein a day without going over 120 carbs while eating a vegan diet and not living off supplements, please let me know.

Try checking out my intakes. I only joined yesterday, but everyday I will have new meals, and I will be trying to reach my iron, calcium, protein, carbohydrate, and (good) fat goals eating this way. I'm not perfect, and neither is this way of eating, but I believe it is much better than eating animals and processed foods.

Good luck to you but this is a place to log your calories and discuss certain topics. Not a place to convert people to veganism.

Since you quoted my original post as well as her response, clearly you can see I directly asked for advice and she wasn't trying to convert me? Although her macros were nowhere near where I like mine to be, I really think she was just being helpful. Wouldn't a vegan diet be one of those "certain topics" you mention?

How much protein do you need a day - how many grams?

Thanks for following up! I like to hit at least 110g/day, though I probably need a little less than that now. I base it off my weight and body fat % and I'm due to have the BF% retested. The main issue here isn't necessarily finding protein sources and staying under calories, it's finding protein sources without consistently going over 100-120 g of carbohydrate daily. If I consume too many carbs or too much dairy (cow's milk, cheese) you can see the difference in my lower belly. I realize it's not fat, but water weight or bloat or something, but I still don't like the way it looks. One of my goals is to see clear ab definition, and that just won't happen if I'm consistently bloated.

Another poster offered the wonderfully helpful advice of looking into the diets of vegan/vegetarian body builders. That's a perfect idea since my long-term goals are more focused on my yoga performance and body sculpting than losing pounds. I found a meal plan for women suggested by vegan body builder Robert Cheeke. It's a little higher in carbs than I like, but because he recommends .8-1.2 g of protein per lb. of body weight (not LBM, but body weight, so way higher than I've found works best for me) to merely maintain muscle, I have a little wiggle room to shift things around. It's a great starting point. I'm willing to supplement with a protein powder once or twice a day and eat eggs from nicely-treated happy little chickens. Between all this, I think I'll be able to figure something out. My options will be severely limited though, so I'm not sure how sustainable that will be. You never know until you try! I'll keep piecing together meal ideas. Any constructive input is welcome and appreciated. I would love to hear from any other vegetarians/vegans focused on body sculpting (if you exist)!

_happycats_

It drives me a little bit crazy that this site is here to help educate people on the smartest and healthiest ways to lose weight and be fit, and these threads can be misleading. I think the biggest issue isn't the choice of a vegan lifestyle - most of us don't really care one way or another what you want to eat or what you don't. The issue is taking parts of a non-vegan lifestyle and slamming it with "facts" that are incredibly, ridiculously false and insulting to everyone who actually understands it.

If someone starts a thread promoting veganism by talking about how dairy farmers are basically devil spawn trying to kill us with abused, nastily infected cows and their milk, it's not going to go over well. Everyone who knows anything about the dairy industry and didn't just learn it from Youtube or Peta is going to take insult to this and immediately know that this person has never been to a dairy farm and is just spewing crap. Misinformation is what heats people up. This is then taken as an attack on the original post, but wasn't the original post an attack on them? Just something to think about.

SueGremlin

It drives me a little bit crazy that this site is here to help educate people on the smartest and healthiest ways to lose weight and be fit, and these threads can be misleading. I think the biggest issue isn't the choice of a vegan lifestyle - most of us don't really care one way or another what you want to eat or what you don't. The issue is taking parts of a non-vegan lifestyle and slamming it with "facts" that are incredibly, ridiculously false and insulting to everyone who actually understands it.

If someone starts a thread promoting veganism by talking about how dairy farmers are basically devil spawn trying to kill us with abused, nastily infected cows and their milk, it's not going to go over well. Everyone who knows anything about the dairy industry and didn't just learn it from Youtube or Peta is going to take insult to this and immediately know that this person has never been to a dairy farm and is just spewing crap. Misinformation is what heats people up. This is then taken as an attack on the original post, but wasn't the original post an attack on them? Just something to think about.

Well put.

alaskaang

VOV, I read the original posting a little differently, and the issue I have is credibility. How does she expect to convince anyone of the value of what she says, especially with the inflammatory nature of the post. Practice what you preach, or don't preach.

I understand being 100% vegan is difficult, but if the OP truly believes that she is vegan, she needs to do a lot more research before trying to help others learn "more about how amazing eating a raw vegan diet is for you!" Vegetarian she may be, but consuming eggs, dairy and white sugar are a long way from being vegan.




edited cause the quotes didn't work

millerll

OP starts a thread condemning the diets of non-vegans, with arguments backed up by tin-foil-hat-wearing pseudo-science articles and "the gubment is out to kill us" conspiracy theories.

OP then gets butt-hurt when critical thinkers condemn her diet.

Oh, the irony.

For the record, I'm a lacto-ovo-carno-choco-vegetarian, (I skipped the "pesco" part because i hate fish.) Just eat whatever the hell suits your lifestyle, morals, and fitness goals and shut up about it.

_VoV

VOV, I read the original posting a little differently, and the issue I have is credibility. How does she expect to convince anyone of the value of what she says, especially with the inflammatory nature of the post. Practice what you preach, or don't preach.

I understand being 100% vegan is difficult, but if the OP truly believes that she is vegan, she needs to do a lot more research before trying to help others learn "more about how amazing eating a raw vegan diet is for you!" Vegetarian she may be, but consuming eggs, dairy and white sugar are a long way from being vegan.




edited cause the quotes didn't work

I hate that quote feature, too. I never get it right!

My point is that every vegan you meet is a 'hypocrite.' I drive a car with tires, which have slaughterhouse products in them. If a child offers me a cracker I know has whey in it, I try to be gracious and kind to the child, and eat the offering. I draw the line at meat, and hope my boorish rejection of it doesn't hurt anyone's feelings. So I'm not vegan, but I love the philosophical underpinnings. I am willing to engage people who want to discuss it no matter where they may be in their level of practice or knowledge of it.

I understand your point of view completely. I did things as a new vegan in the mid-70's which make me cringe now. I'm lucky that most people were pretty tolerant of my at-times half-baked assertions. I think the OP has gotten the message that these boards draw people from a wide range of backgrounds, and many demand impeccable science and logic.

Tommy

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