Do you think milk is safe?
Replies
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We're the only species that drinks another animal's milk, and there are far healthier ways to get calcium. That being said, if you spend the extra money for organic milk, you won't have to worry about the hormones and antibiotics. Personally, I love almond milk. Tastes more like cow's milk to me than soy milk does, and too much soy can be dangerous for those who have a history of breast cancer in their families.
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Milk is not safe. Studies show the cassein is linked to cancer in animals as well as all the other problems. But it's also very difficult to eliminate milk from the diet. I do Soy and Almond milk, but I still have cheese and other dairy occasionally. I suppose that's better than nothing. Want to know who came up with the idea that we should drink milk everyday and give it to our children? Housewives in the 1950s. Milk does NOT do a body good.
1. Lactase persistence (i.e., the ability to digest milk beyond infancy) has been shown to be under positive selection for ~10,000 years. So the idea that 'humans as a species' are not 'designed' to drink milk is false.
See here (among other references) Tishkoff SA, Reed FA, Ranciaro A, Voight BF, Babbitt CC, Silverman JS, Powell K, Mortensen HM, Hirbo JB, Osman M, Ibrahim M, Omar SA, Lema G, Nyambo TB, Ghori J, Bumpstead S, Pritchard JK, Wray GA, Deloukas P (January 2007). "Convergent adaptation of human lactase persistence in Africa and Europe". Nat. Genet. 39 (1): 31–40.
2. A search of 'casein cancer link' in pubmed produces all of 7 results, with none actually about casein causing cancer. So this appears to be unsupported by any peer-reviewed research.0 -
We're the only species that drinks another animal's milk
My cat drinks cows milk.
Not naturally (in the wild - part of an animals natural diet) -- your cat drinks it because you give it to him/her. And BTW, most vets would suggest you stop.0 -
All of our livestock are injected with hormones and antibiotics. I don't think this is safe, and prefer to drink organic milk, almond milk, or rice milk instead. I wish I could afford organic meats, but not at this point.
Two thirds of humans are lactose intolerant (the percentage is much larger if you look at middle eastern, african, and asian populations as opposed to people of European descent). Furthermore, humans are the only species that consume milk past infancy. So the idea that it is an essential part of a mammalian diet is ridiculous.0 -
Milk is just the latest in a line of products that are said to cause cancer. Its all just scare tactics.0
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I just heard about a very chubby 9-year old's visit to the pediatrician. Her mother was concerned because her breasts were developing. Pediatrician said it was milk hormones. I'm thinking it's McDonald's.
I'm thinking you're wrong.0 -
We're the only species that drinks another animal's milk
My cat drinks cows milk.
Not naturally (in the wild - part of an animals natural diet) -- your cat drinks it because you give it to him/her. And BTW, most vets would suggest you stop.
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We're not designed as a species to drink milk past infancy so I certainly agree it's something our bodies can do without and in some cases it can be harmful to an individual.
However as to whether it's harmful to the human race as a general rule, I personally think we probably shouldn't have dairy products in our diet but then we also shouldn't have any processed foods if we're looking at it in natural evolutionary terms. If it isn't harming YOU personally there are a lot more things out there I would eliminate from your diet before dairy.
Whoa, wait. What?
Do you know that in many cultures, children are allowed to breastfeed until they naturally wean.... which, in those cultures, tends to be around age 8? NATURALLY weaning at age 8.
The AAP and other organizations recommends breastfeeding until age 2.
So we are definitely designed to drink milk past infancy.0 -
We're the only species that drinks another animal's milk
My cat drinks cows milk.
Your cat will probably develop cancer. Sorry Steel. Haven't you heard? Everything gives you cancer. Most importantly, microwaveable popcorn, fake butter, and that cheese that you sprinkle on your popcorn.0 -
That's a bunch of nonsense. It doesn't cause cancer. However, I work in the agricultural realm, and I have to say that I don't agree with how they handle dairy cattle. To make the farm profitable, they have to milk hundreds of cows per day, sometimes more depending on the size of your workforce. The more animals you have in a confined area the more likely it is to cause disease. Add to this that no dairy operations have NEAR enough pasture, and the cows are standing in FILTH all day, so they load the cows up with antibiotics and they inject them with growth hormone to make them produce more milk.
I buy local organic milk from a dairy farm that I've actually been to, and it's great. So many fun things to learn about it. But like with so many things in this world excess leads to abuse.
The reason I buy organic milk is because it's a certification, I actually couldn't care less if they used hormones or not, it's not like I'M being injected with them =P0 -
We're the only species that drinks another animal's milk
My cat drinks cows milk.
Not naturally (in the wild - part of an animals natural diet) -- your cat drinks it because you give it to him/her. And BTW, most vets would suggest you stop.
I bet if the cat had two thumbs the cat would "naturally" drink milk.
Guess who has two thumbs?
<--- This guy.0 -
If I cut out everything that *might* cause cancer, there would be nothing left to eat.
I'll stick with trying to eat a sensible variety of foods.0 -
We're the only species that drinks another animal's milk
My cat drinks cows milk.
Not naturally (in the wild - part of an animals natural diet) -- your cat drinks it because you give it to him/her. And BTW, most vets would suggest you stop.
I bet if the cat had two thumbs the cat would "naturally" drink milk.
Guess who has two thumbs?
<--- This guy.
I wonder how the first man ever to get milk out of a cow explained to the others how he got it....0 -
All of our livestock are injected with hormones and antibiotics. I don't think this is safe, and prefer to drink organic milk, almond milk, or rice milk instead. I wish I could afford organic meats, but not at this point.
Really? Where is your proof?
I certainly dont inject my cows with anything. Infact there are strict regulations on what products i can even use on my cows for the health and wellbeing of my animals. To spray them for flies or even to worm them the products all have withholding periods before you can sell them. I have to sign a declaration at the time of sale that includes any pesticide use, hormones, gm modified feed etc etc. if my cows are found to have any of these things used on them i am banned from selling my animals.0 -
We're not designed as a species to drink milk past infancy so I certainly agree it's something our bodies can do without and in some cases it can be harmful to an individual.
However as to whether it's harmful to the human race as a general rule, I personally think we probably shouldn't have dairy products in our diet but then we also shouldn't have any processed foods if we're looking at it in natural evolutionary terms. If it isn't harming YOU personally there are a lot more things out there I would eliminate from your diet before dairy.
Whoa, wait. What?
Do you know that in many cultures, children are allowed to breastfeed until they naturally wean.... which, in those cultures, tends to be around age 8? NATURALLY weaning at age 8.
The AAP and other organizations recommends breastfeeding until age 2.
So we are definitely designed to drink milk past infancy.
My apologies, as an extended breastfeeder myself I used the term infancy loosely to describe up to natural weaning age which is still childhood, definitely not adulthood though.0 -
Most mammal species will drink milk, at any age, given the opportunity. Most of them, however, have not worked out how to get a cow to stand still and pull on its udders. The argument that it wasn't designed for us is ridiculous; no naturally occuring food was. It's there. We try it. If it doesn't kill us, generally the human species continues to consume it. I mean, there are people that eat mushrooms and those are just vile.0
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How many times must we do this?
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/788363-milk-or-no-milk?hl=milk+lactase0 -
I drink milk every day.
Recently, my doctor said I have syphilis.
There is no doubt in my mind that excessive milk consumption caused it.
Milk is dangerous.
Milk is syphilis.0 -
Milk is obviously unsafe. Throughout the history of mankind, every person that has had even one sip of milk has eventually died. Every. Single. Person. Has Died. Look it up, true story. If this doesn't prove the case against milk, well, you must be a really logical thinking individual.
YOU DRINK MILK YOU GONNA DIE0 -
That ****'s gonna kill ya!
Dont drink it!
:P
AHA one of the stupidest question ever asked on this site.0 -
I wouldn't be scared if I ran into milk in a dark alley.0
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I drink milk every day.
Recently, my doctor said I have syphilis.
There is no doubt in my mind that excessive milk consumption caused it.
Milk is dangerous.
Milk is syphilis.
There you go applying logic again. Reported!0 -
How it possibly causes cancer and should not be consumed by humans. How it's injected with cancer causing hormones.
Topic 1: Why do people use hormones in milk and can it give me cancer?
As a person who has shadowed many dairy veterinarians and visited many different dairy farms (spent a summer doing nothing else from 8am-5pm) I just want you to know that this is the most laughable claim I have ever heard and whoever told you that has NEVER been to a dairy farm. Let me tell you how it really works.
rBST/recombinant Bovine Growth hormone is a very misunderstood drug. A good farmer used it if a cow had a hard birth or her baby died at the last second and had to be removed. This trauma causes the cow to go down in milk production and injecting rBST is one way to get some milk out of her rather than having to cull her for failing to produce. Many farmers are living on a knife's edge profit barely able to keep their expenses from exceeding their income. If a cow cannot make enough milk she is a waste of food and energy and is often worth more as beef than as a dairy cow. They might sell her because they need the money to keep their farm or feed their kids. rBST was/is used by the vets I worked with to keep a good dairy cow (one that makes lots of milk, usually above 80lbs-120lbs of milk per day) who had lost her milk producing abilities temporarily (due to illness or a bad birth) in the herd until she would recover her milk production after her next calf. That said, some farmers did use it just to boost milk production, but as one of the farmer's himself told me "I stopped doing to because the cost of the hormone could not be justified against the amount of extra milk she gave. It's really only worth if if you know she's a good cow, but something has messed her up this one time." Therefore, I would argue that I'm not sure why people are using it much at all EXCEPT to justify keeping a good cow after a dystocia."Drinking milk does not increase breast cancer risk, regardless of whether the milk is organic, rbST-free or conventional."
http://www.ads.uga.edu/documents/rbstexpertpaper-6.26.09-final.pdf"Before approval by the Food and Drug Administration, rBST underwent the longest and most comprehensive regulatory review of any veterinary product in history. Three years before the F.D.A. approved the marketing of milk from supplemented cows, its scientists, in an article published in the journal Science, summarized more than 120 studies showing that rBST poses no risk to human health."
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/29/opinion/29miller.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0"The available evidence shows that the use of rBGH can cause adverse health effects in cows. The evidence for potential harm to humans is inconclusive. It is not clear that drinking milk produced using rBGH significantly increases IGF-1 levels in humans or adds to the risk of developing cancer. More research is needed to help better address these concerns.
The increased use of antibiotics to treat rBGH-induced mastitis does promote the development of antibiotic-resistant bacteria, but the extent to which these are transmitted to humans is unclear."
"http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/othercarcinogens/athome/recombinant-bovine-growth-hormone
And since we're on the subject, let me tell you a little about "antibiotics in livestock".
Topic 2: Are animals responsible for the MRSA outbreak in humans and are antibiotics in animals always bad?
And as a person taking two classes in zoonotic disease right now for school, I can tell you a bit about antibiotic resistance in animals jumping to humans. The long and short of it is... it's not even a pinprick of an issue compared to humans taking too many antibiotics and screwing ourselves. Livestock Associated MRSA (such as CC398) is a a problem in one place: in pigs, in the Netherlands. Over there 23% of swine workers and swine veterinarians are colonized with LA-MRSA compared to .0001% of the general population of people. Now compare that to the USA where 1.8% of the general population has Hospital Associated MRSA (that's the one from humans getting antibiotics for twitching funny). Why is the Livestock Associated MRSA so high in the Netherlands? BECAUSE THEY HAVE NEARLY ELIMINATED HOSPITAL ASSOCIATED MRSA, something we over here really suck at. In the US (and most other countries), our problem is LACK OF HAND WASHING (with lots of nonantibiotic soap and water) and OVERZEALOUS use of antibiotics ON OUR HUMANS SELVES.
Oh, and also note I said PIGS not cows. LA-MRSA is really not that big a problem in cows. It happens for sure, BUT here's a lovely study showing how cows most often get MRSA: from US HUMANS. Thank you CDC."In this study, both phenotyping and genotyping showed that the MRSA isolates of bovine origin and the single human isolate were indistinguishable....MSSA strains with ST 1 and spa-type t127 have been reported from human sources....We conclude that several cases of subclinical mastitis in cows on a farm in Hungary were caused by MRSA and that these strains were indistinguishable from MRSA isolated from a carrier working in close contact with the cows. This suggests the transmission of these isolates between humans and cows although the direction of transfer (cow to human or human to cow) could not be proven."
http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/13/4/06-0833_article.htm
Which of these two scenarios sounds more likely?
A. The cows developed the EXACT SAME strain of MRSA spontaneously and gave it to a human
B. The human picked up a strain of MRSA at the hospital or from a friend and gave it to the cows
In case, you're not a science person, the answer is B is 100000000000000X more likely
Do I agree with the use of antibiotics products like Rumensin as a growth promoter for cows? No. Why not? For the same reason I don't find it cool to have antibiotic hand soap. We've already screwed ourselves a lot and I don't want anything to make it worse.
Do I believe we should ban the use of antibiotics in animals? UM HECK NO?! What are you going to do when fluffy steps on a branch and gets an infection in her foot? Let it rot? That's just cruel.
Do I believe we should ban the use of antibiotics in food animals? No, and let me tell you why. Imagine getting a vaginal infection and pouring iodine into your vagina to clear that up. If you've never used real iodine before I can swear to you that putting it on a mucous membrane is a bit like branding yourself with a hot iron. What does this have to do with antibiotics? THIS IS HOW ORGANIC FARMERS HAVE TO FIGHT INFECTION because people are blaming the livestock for a problem we created ourselves. Iodine up your hoochie is painful and I don't think that is an acceptable way to treat my patients.
Oh the the really fun fact is that one of my friend's grad projects determined that at the organic farm she studied, bacteria were starting to build resistance to iodine and betadine too. Luckily, it's nothing bad yet, but it's freaking scary. This just sucks all around doesn't it?
The long and short of antibiotic resistance is: don't blame the cow. It's our freaking fault.
Topic 3: What is a withdrawal time?
As per wikipedia: "Withdrawal time, as relating to veterinary medicine, is defined as the time required after administration of a drug to a dairy cow needed to assure that drug residues in the marketable milk is below a determined maximum residue limit (MRL).This term is often used more broadly to describe the time needed after drug administration to any food animal where drug residue may be found in marketed meats, eggs, organs, or other edible products."
To find out the withdrawal times of different drugs, check out: http://www.farad.org/
Oh, and what happens if a cow still has drugs in the milk when it gets put into the bulk tank? All the milk is condemned and the farmer eats the cost. So, if a farmer lets milk with antibiotics go on the milk truck he eats the cost of that ENTIRE truck of milk and the veterinarian gets hauled in front of the government for a beat down that could cost them 8 years of schooling. Trust me, if there are antibiotics in your milk, someone is getting linched.
TL:DR: The hormones are mostly being phased out and they weren't really much of a problem anyways. Blame your genetics instead. The antibiotic resistance is more human fault than animals and we're wasting our time blaming them when we should just wash our freaking hands and get over ourselves. Finally, If there are antibiotics in your milk, I just lost my licence to practice and am being ripped to peices by the AVMA and the USDA.
Edit: Added some breaks in the wall of text as per a request.0 -
I don't exactly see people dropping like flies from drinking milk
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Best thing about these threads: Brings out the alarmist tinfoil hat types to populate my ignore list.
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We're the only species that drinks another animal's milk
My cat drinks cows milk.
Your cat will probably develop cancer. Sorry Steel. Haven't you heard? Everything gives you cancer. Most importantly, microwaveable popcorn, fake butter, and that cheese that you sprinkle on your popcorn.
You forgot diet Coke!0 -
I just heard about a very chubby 9-year old's visit to the pediatrician. Her mother was concerned because her breasts were developing. Pediatrician said it was milk hormones. I'm thinking it's McDonald's.
I guess it's too politically incorrect for the pedi to tell her that her daughter's just overweight.0 -
I drink milk every day.
Recently, my doctor said I have syphilis.
There is no doubt in my mind that excessive milk consumption caused it.
Milk is dangerous.
Milk is syphilis.
Was it breast milk?0 -
There is no valid evidence that milk causes cancer in humans to my knowledge. There is significantly more evidence that finger nail products, pumping gas, fixatives and the dyes in clothes cause cancer.
While cassein might have some issues, whey might also reduce the risk of cancer.
It is a good idea to avoid extreme levels of aflatoxins. Especially if you are a rat in a China study.0 -
And for all you masochists out there who really just had to know....
Topic 4: Raw milk is safe right?
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO AND HECK NO
For the love of all that is holy, please go here first:
Here's a short list of ways you can die from drinking raw milk:
-Q fever: Now up to 65% fatal if they don't realize you have it and 2% get fatal heart infections anyways! Hooray!
-Francisella tularensis (tularemia): 2% fatal if treated, up to 65% fatal if not treated
-Brucellosis (Want to be cured and still have arthritis like a 100 year old woman? This is for you!)
-Bovine Tuberculosis (Which until pasteurization was one of the lead killers of humans in the US)
-Ecoli
-Salmonella (typhoid fever) -20k hospitalizations in the us every year and about 400 deathes
-Listeria (which loves the temperature of your refrigerator)
-MRSA
-campylobacter (Who wants to leave the toilet anyways?)
-toxoplasmosis (GUESS WHAT ALL YOU MOMS! You're much more likely to abort your baby from eating raw meat, raw veggies, gardening, not washing your hands and drinking raw milk then you ever were from cleaning your indoor only cat's litter box)
-cyrptosporidum (My friend go this in undergrad. She has diarrhea for a week straight and had to be hospitalized to stay alive. She was sick for two months like she had mono and the diarrhea would relapse. There is no cure, you have to wait it out.)
-Leptosporosis (Where are all my hawains at?)
-giardia (Nothing like little things living inside you giving you the runs)
-norovirus (Vomiting AND diarrhea. Hope you're fast!)
Don't believe it can happen to you?http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2011/06/grade-school-parent-sickens-class-with-raw-milk/
Summary: A parent brought raw milk to school and told the 4th graders it was so much healthier than pasteurized milk for blah blah blah reasons. CAMPYLOBACTER FOR EVERYBODY! The lawyers are called and lawsuits all around!
TLDR: If you drink raw milk, fine whatever but do it at your own risk.0
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