To those doing very low cals (in the 600 to 1200 range)

SHBoss1673

watch this blog, I implore you. it's everything I've been preaching for the last 5 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHHzie6XRGk

Onesnap

Depends on the person. I'm 5'6" and I'm 1460 to lose .5/week, 1260 to lose 1lb/week, and 1660 to maintain. I always eat back my exercise cals so I'm actually typically eating 500 cals more. Don't diss the numbers. I'm a healthy weight and in great shape.

For those eating 600 or so I say what my Zumba teacher says: "I don't hang out with people like that"

SHBoss1673

not really sure why you make this comment Onesnap. how is this post dising the numbers? It's just me asking people to watch a video by a professional with a lot of experience in training others, and has a phd. in nutritional science.

The blog doesn't tell people not to eat below any specific amount, it talks about metabolic damage that people do by eating to lower than their body can support for long periods. If you aren't eating to low, then the post doesn't apply. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the point of your reply though, it's hard for me to tell. Can you clarify/

Onesnap

It's just 1200 is not "very low" for those that are of a healthy weight for their height.

My point was some people are doing 1200 but that's post workout.

SHBoss1673

It's just 1200 is not "very low" for those that are of a healthy weight for their height.

My point was some people are doing 1200 but that's post workout.

well, that's why I put a range in. 1200 is very low for someone who's RMR is 2000 calories, but it wouldn't be that low for someone with an RMR of 1400, which is why I put 600 to 1200. In other words, I was saying, if you meet the criteria, this COULD mean you're doing metabolic damage, not that you definitely are.

Mokey41

Yeah my RMR is 1094 so if I eat at 1200 I'm not in a bad range although I try for about 1350. That's the problem with throwing numbers around.

MissSusieQ

I get you SHBoss.

but, all you're going to get here is a barrage of people telling you why what you're saying doesn't apply personally to them, so you must be wrong about everything.

good luck!

ps. 1200 cal isn't too low for me, so you're wrong

SHBoss1673

*sigh*...... if people would just watch the darn blog they'd understand. Sorry, but I just hate when people get all caught up in the minutia and ignore the message.

Dave198lbs

*sigh*...... if people would just watch the darn blog they'd understand. Sorry, but I just hate when people get all caught up in the minutia and ignore the message.

dude....

you have been here longer than me

surely this isn't a surprise

Mokey41

I did watch it but I tuned out a lot of it in the first few minutes when he said he knows it to be true but has no science to back it up other than his observations. That and his annoying throat clearing and burping sort of made me wonder why I want to take his advice for fact. His observations are no more valid than anybody else and he's talking about bodybuilders and figure competitors who are taking everything to the extreme.

SHBoss1673

I did watch it but I tuned out a lot of it in the first few minutes when he said he knows it to be true but has no science to back it up other than his observations. That and his annoying throat clearing and burping sort of made me wonder why I want to take his advice for fact. His observations are no more valid than anybody else and he's talking about bodybuilders and figure competitors who are taking everything to the extreme.

2 reasons, 1 he has a doctorate in nutritional science. And 2 he explains all of the science behind his methods as you progress.

Let me ask you this, if you had a neurosurgeon who's opinion was, remove the tumor in your brain, would you have it removed? Even though he doesn't have the science of exactly when or if it will kill you (which is often the case)? I mean it's just his opinion, he doesn't have any fact to back up that the tumor will kill you, just that in his opinion it will grow and you will die.
It's a similar situation. The reason why there's no scientific evidence is because this is a new area, and research is being done all the time, that shouldn't mean we don't try as best we can to figure out the issues anyway.
Sometimes you have to listen to people, look at their qualifications, listen to their reasoning, and decide whether you agree or disagree.

Matt_Wild

I get you SHBoss.

but, all you're going to get here is a barrage of people telling you why what you're saying doesn't apply personally to them, so you must be wrong about everything.

good luck!

ps. 1200 cal isn't too low for me, so you're wrong

Too many people here on MFP think they have magic bodies. I've given up posting beyond my opinion and leaving it at that because people just believe XYZ said ABC so that calorie burning is better when on super low calories.

I get super lean myself dropping down to around 2700-3000 myself usually. No less. 1200 is crazy low IMO if it doesn't include exercise because 500-600 calories is too low.

laddyboy

Goodness!!!

My saying is - "you have to eat to lose weight". I say this A LOT!

Some people just don't get it.

Mokey41

My daughter has a doctorate in psychology, doesn't make her always right. I'll admit the guy may have some valid points but his examples are of people taking their diets to the extreme not the average housewife who probably under estimates her food intake and over estimates her exercise. Most of the people on here eating in the 1200 calorie range aren't body builders nor will they stick with it for any length of time. Like I said before, you're comparing average people with those making a career out of body sculpting.

ygglove

I'm going to show this to my friend. She really needs to see this! Thanks!

Erienneb

I did watch it but I tuned out a lot of it in the first few minutes when he said he knows it to be true but has no science to back it up other than his observations. That and his annoying throat clearing and burping sort of made me wonder why I want to take his advice for fact. His observations are no more valid than anybody else and he's talking about bodybuilders and figure competitors who are taking everything to the extreme.

2 reasons, 1 he has a doctorate in nutritional science. And 2 he explains all of the science behind his methods as you progress.

Let me ask you this, if you had a neurosurgeon who's opinion was, remove the tumor in your brain, would you have it removed? Even though he doesn't have the science of exactly when or if it will kill you (which is often the case)? I mean it's just his opinion, he doesn't have any fact to back up that the tumor will kill you, just that in his opinion it will grow and you will die.
It's a similar situation. The reason why there's no scientific evidence is because this is a new area, and research is being done all the time, that shouldn't mean we don't try as best we can to figure out the issues anyway.
Sometimes you have to listen to people, look at their qualifications, listen to their reasoning, and decide whether you agree or disagree.

I don't care how smart someone is, a degree isn't always anything. You didn't have to get straight A's and know every single thing to pass college. Now, this man could be completely right. But you should always get a 2nd opinion.

Matt_Wild

My daughter has a doctorate in psychology, doesn't make her always right. I'll admit the guy may have some valid points but his examples are of people taking their diets to the extreme not the average housewife who probably under estimates her food intake and over estimates her exercise. Most of the people on here eating in the 1200 calorie range aren't body builders nor will they stick with it for any length of time. Like I said before, you're comparing average people with those making a career out of body sculpting.

Yes, us bodybuilders pocess magical qualities and metabolisms that make us very unlike the rest of the world... kinda like the unicorn, if you will.

And you are correct - most people here on 1200 will binge and end up back where they started. Those in the know suggest a method to help and its wrong because you choose to make up a reasoning that makes no sense and ignore those who give suggestions, based on biology and science.

Ho hum.

SHBoss1673

I don't care how smart someone is, a degree isn't always anything. You didn't have to get straight A's and know every single thing to pass college. Now, this man could be completely right. But you should always get a 2nd opinion.

I have, and 3rd, and 4th, and 5th. ...etc. I have metabolic science, and empirical evidence, and other experts in the field. I never said I didn't have any of that. I never said his degree was everything, I added his degree with his practical experience. Add 7 years of field work to a doctorate in nutritional science, and I think that's a pretty good baseline of knowledge. I agree with his interpretation of the science, not his degree, it just happens to give a little extra footing from which to base his opinions and observations with.

SHBoss1673

And for the record. The science behind the human body adjusting to compensate for long term calorie deficits has nothing to do with these people being fitness competitors, it has everything to do with the amount of energy that would, under perfect circumstances, be required to keep them in metabolic homeostasis, but does not because of the body adapting to long term underfeeding and reducing the Basal Metabolic Rate to compensate and reduce energy output.

I've been saying this for years, and I've been showing what science I can based on tangental studies that hit on this while doing other research. The fact that there are very few studies that show this is the only reason why it doesn't receive more traction. The science behind this doesn't support "diet programs" thus very little private funding is available for it. There's too much money to be made off the diet yo-yo.

Dave198lbs

IMO, the reason this video will not be listened to or given the respect it deserves by many here on MFP that can use the information is that they will not relate to a body builder making many references to body builders/competition style dieters.

they just can't relate

while is example of a body sculptor getting ready for a competition and eating 600 calories while doing 2-3 hours of steady state cardio is an extreme example, his basic message is sound but most wont get past his body builder appearance and his many references to body builders

this video would probably be better suited to a body builders forum

MagnaSky

Thanks for sharing this. Hope the criticism does not discourage you and others from sharing. It is up to us individually to decide what works and what does not, what information to trust and which one to dismiss. It is up to us to make our decisions. But I appreciate people sharing information, their experiences here. I like to have wide variety of information available to help me to make my decisions.

ObtainingBalance

Thanks for sharing.

concavity

Just because someone has a PhD means nothing about what they're saying.
I could have a PhD in nutrition and tell everyone that 3 glasses of wine a day is healthy and you can live off of it for extended periods of time do they have to believe me just because I wrote a thesis and went to school for longer which obviously must mean I know so much more.

Matt_Wild

People seem to forget bodybuilders are human. We aren't born muscled and lean. We diet the way we describe, carefully and SLOWLY to get the results you see.

Shame it gets ignored - a good message has been given.

Matt_Wild

Just because someone has a PhD means nothing about what they're saying.
I could have a PhD in nutrition and tell everyone that 3 glasses of wine a day is healthy and you can live off of it for extended periods of time do they have to believe me just because I wrote a thesis and went to school for longer which obviously must mean I know so much more.

Yes correct.

But then the science is given to back it up. And he has applied it to people he coaches. He has also written many artciles.

Strange how many people reject this piece just because he's a bodybuilder and use the fact he's got PHD to ignore him.

What would make people listen?

iqnas

My RMR is 1,450. I need 1,700 a day to maintain. To lose one pound a week, I cut -500 calories from 1,700 which means 1,200 a day. I'm medium framed, 20 yrs old, and 5 feet 5 inches.

Matt_Wild

iqnnas - do you barely move around?

concavity

Just because someone has a PhD means nothing about what they're saying.
I could have a PhD in nutrition and tell everyone that 3 glasses of wine a day is healthy and you can live off of it for extended periods of time do they have to believe me just because I wrote a thesis and went to school for longer which obviously must mean I know so much more.

Yes correct.

But then the science is given to back it up. And he has applied it to people he coaches. He has also written many artciles.

Strange how many people reject this piece just because he's a bodybuilder and use the fact he's got PHD to ignore him.

What would make people listen?

As you said HE had written articles, HE coaches. Is there evidence from other studies done by other people?

And I'm using his PhD against him since the original poster said "It's just me asking people to watch a video by a professional with a lot of experience in training others, and has a phd. in nutritional science. "

Lesa_Sass

ROFLMAO!

Ahem, well people, it does not take a rocket scientist to understand that 600 calories a day is not good for you.

Food is necessary. It provides us with vitamins, minerals, electrolytes, antioxidants as well as can assist with anti inflammatory properties. From food we also get plant chemicals like thiocyanates, indole-3-carbinol, lutein, zea-xanthin, sulforaphane and isothiocyanates. Along with dietary fiber, vitamins these compounds help to protect against breast, colon, and prostate cancers and help reduce LDL or "bad cholesterol" levels in the blood. So we also fight disease BY EATING.

Food makes us healthy and happy, but if all you are going for is being skinny, have at it. :frown:

myofibril

What would make people listen?

Nothing unfortunately. You can't really reason with emotion.

Most people ultimately believe what they [/i]want[/i] to believe is true and use all sorts of convenient justifications to rationalise those ideas in the face of cognitive dissonance.

Dave198lbs

What would make people listen?

great question

I have been here for awhile and for the most part, people only "hear" what they want to hear and these type sites are full of enablers. Tough love is usually interpreted as an attack or non supportive. Gentle guidance is not always effective either.

On the flip side, some people do eventually come around if they stick with it.