To those doing very low cals (in the 600 to 1200 range)

Zangpakto

So.. right... those who are 5ft and shorter must stick to 1200 and above only?

I can tell you right now it doesn't exactly work that way for us shorter people... I try to net 1000 a day which ensures around 0.5lbs a week usually of fat loss... put most cals in protein.

Oh, note I said net.... I mean on weekends say I do a LSD run for example of 22-30km so ummm 1500-2000 cals burnt.. I eat back ALL those calories either on pre run snacks, during run snacks and recovery after running, then still eat my usual 1000 on top.

It works for me... To stay same I roughly need about 1500-1800 total with hardly any training, I couldn't NOT train so that out question, but lighter training and eating that amount makes me stay same...

You do not know the full stats of the person to comment on their nutrition. Sure, most people here are above 5ft, I'm willing most are above 5ft 4in... and I'm a male 5ft... most males who say to lose weight they eat 1500-1800... They what? 5ft 6in, maybe 6ft or more? Don't just lump us short folk into the same cat as you tall folk it doesn't work that way...

psuLemon

Do you think 1200 calories will preserve your current muscle mass?

I didn't have much muscle mass to begin with. I hurt my back in the middle of dieting and therefore didn't work out other than cardio since June, so I probably did not preserve it. Not ideal, but I don't think that I irrevocably damaged myself by losing weight this way. Also, mfp actually recommends a 1200 calorie diet. I don't think they would recommend something that's going to be damaging.

I think some of the points are if you are eating as low as you are, a reason you could have gotten hurt is because the less muscle mass you have, the less support your body has and the more prone to injury. If you monitor body fat composition (fat mass vs everything else) you can see what is wrong with low calorie diets. You can see larger losses in muscle as opposed to fat. When you lose lean body mass, there are a ton of issues that come along with it (less support for your body, your body relies on tissue, joints and ligaments more for mobility, a slower metabolism, less insulin resistance [demonstrated in skinny people with diabetes II]. etc). Unfortunately, many people do not track their fat loss but only weight loss and many over extend their goals based on an erroneous number. If i wanted to get back to my high school weight, I would have to lose 15 lbs of muscle but I rather weight an extra 15 lbs to preserve that.

Obviously you can do what you want, but I would ask, do your goals match your diet? My goal is to look athletic and be strong, a goal that can not be obtained by a very low calorie diet. Like the thread below, if you want to a specific weight and don't care about muscle, you will look like the girl on the left. If you want muscle to be have a tighter and leaner body, then you need to eat like the girl on the right. Either way, I wish you the best.


http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/392784-skinny-fat-vs-fit-photo?hl=skinny+fat

rodneyderrick

This was a fantastic video, and I hope people take it serious.

geekyjock76

There are countless studies out there but here is a current one with subjects on VLCDs who attempted to preserve LBM yet still suffered severe decreases in RMR. /Thread.

Abstract

Context: An important goal during weight loss is to maximize fat loss while preserving metabolically active fat-free mass (FFM). Massive weight loss typically results in substantial loss of FFM potentially slowing metabolic rate.

Objective: Our objective was to determine whether a weight loss program consisting of diet restriction and vigorous exercise helped to preserve FFM and maintain resting metabolic rate (RMR).

Participants and Intervention: We measured body composition by dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry, RMR by indirect calorimetry, and total energy expenditure by doubly labeled water at baseline (n = 16), wk 6 (n = 11), and wk 30 (n = 16).

Results: At baseline, participants were severely obese (×± sd; body mass index 49.4 ± 9.4 kg/m2) with 49 ± 5% body fat. At wk 30, more than one third of initial body weight was lost (−38 ± 9%) and consisted of 17 ± 8% from FFM and 83 ± 8% from fat. RMR declined out of proportion to the decrease in body mass, demonstrating a substantial metabolic adaptation (−244 ± 231 and −504 ± 171 kcal/d at wk 6 and 30, respectively, P < 0.01). Energy expenditure attributed to physical activity increased by 10.2 ± 5.1 kcal/kg·d at wk 6 and 6.0 ± 4.1 kcal/kg·d at wk 30 (P < 0.001 vs. zero).

Conclusions: Despite relative preservation of FFM, exercise did not prevent dramatic slowing of resting metabolism out of proportion to weight loss. This metabolic adaptation may persist during weight maintenance and predispose to weight regain unless high levels of physical activity or caloric restriction are maintained.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/early/2012/04/24/jc.2012-1444.abstract?rss=1

huwiesmummy

This is what I have gone though. Due to gallstones I couldn't stomach most foods thus it was agreed to put me on a food replacement that only gave me 600cals a day. After 7 long months I lost a ton of wright now I'm trying to eat again but am struggling. I'm aiming for 1400-1600 a day but It's hard to eat so much sometimes. I need help and am unsure of where to get these answers I tried my Dr and basically she had no answers just referred me to a weight loss group. Can anyone help with advice or tell me where I can get help with this. As I keep putting weight on and I'd like to try and continue to get healthy and lose more in a better way.thanks xx

clobercow

I agree that metabolic damage happens on very long stints of caloric deficits, especially when it's less than 50% of TDEE. However, the most efficient way of losing fat is to not eat. That's why it's very effective (short term) to use VLCD or starvation. Short term PSMF, or Intermittent Fasting work extremely well without the negatives of doing a long term VLCD.

I'm 85 lbs down using IF and VLCD/PSMF and I'm not having issues gaining fat when I'm eating on my "eat" days. There are many examples of people getting ripped doing it and keeping it.

I strongly agree with the point of not doing low intensity cardio (some is ok). The wasting of lean mass of long stints of low intensity cardio does no good. What should be done is high intensity lifting / intervals.

babyfatstarteditall

Years ago when I was in my 20's, I thought that starving myself was the way to lose weight. I lived on raw veggies, oatmeal and diet drinks for 4 months. I sure did lose weight...and muscle tone and chunks of my hair!!! Everyone told me I looked awful. When I began to eat sensibly again, I gained it all back, PLUS about 30 lbs. To this day that extra weight wants to come back on. I have been working out 6 days a week for 3 years and have lost 25 lbs and kept it off. I have more to lose and I find that 1-2 lbs per week works the best and I feel great. I don't try to drive 1,000 miles on an empty tank of gas.

Akimajuktuq

Haven't watched the video yet, but I'll listen when I see for myself that a 1,200 calorie diet is doing bad things to me. Thus far, I haven't seen any negative affects from it. It's kind of addictive though and I'm so used to it. I hope I can up it it when I reach my goal weight.

I really truly hope it never happens and you reach your goal without ever entering a stage at which you cannot lose weight without further reduction in calories.
But,

here's the problem I would have with this statement. You are essentially saying, until I break something I'm not going to see it as an issue. In other words you're being reactionary with your body instead of adjusting your habits and techniques to avoid an issue, you're waiting until an issue happens before you make a change. This is going to make it harder to change if something does happen, and lead to a higher possibility of failure in the long run.

I'm not saying you should change, I don't know your situation well enough to comment on that, I'm saying, it can be bad to automatically assume that what works now will always work.

Agreed.

Its like saying my car has below the recommend amount of oil in it but because it hasn't broken down yet, its fine and I shouldn't worry.

:huh:

mfp recommended 1200 calories, therefore i'm not viewing it as below the recommended amount of oil.

I'm a nutritional coach, I help diet people, I work for Gaspari and Layne's information here is countering what you say in a strong and detailed manner.

But a website that allows the user to key in random figures and spits out a response is more likely to be correct?

Ockhams Razor IMO.

I've really enjoyed the advice from the body-builders and other healthy types here. It's too bad that most of us can't grasp that a low calorie diet is detrimental in the long run. I get that. Weight watchers, and a myriad of organizations, provided a great lesson on how NOT to eat if one wants to be healthy and look good.

I don't know why it is so hard for people to understand that one cannot maintain, or build muscle, without eating a lot of healthy food. It's also too bad that most of us here are so focused on rapid weight loss that we input that we want to lose more than 1 pound per week and that's why MFP spits out the magic 1200. That's as low as it will go... and yet there are so many people that think that is appropriate and take it very personal when other people question it or try to present more information.

I think my calories are currently too low to build muscle but I still have lots from hauling my big body around. I also have a Bowflex at home that I will figure out how to put together over Christmas. It's a no-brainer that I will have to eat more if I intend to make my body look better.

Thanks for sharing the info.

Akimajuktuq

Years ago when I was in my 20's, I thought that starving myself was the way to lose weight. I lived on raw veggies, oatmeal and diet drinks for 4 months. I sure did lose weight...and muscle tone and chunks of my hair!!! Everyone told me I looked awful. When I began to eat sensibly again, I gained it all back, PLUS about 30 lbs. To this day that extra weight wants to come back on. I have been working out 6 days a week for 3 years and have lost 25 lbs and kept it off. I have more to lose and I find that 1-2 lbs per week works the best and I feel great. I don't try to drive 1,000 miles on an empty tank of gas.

You just described all of the Weight Watcher meeting leaders that I have ever had (no, I'm not part of that insanity anymore!). Sickly, thinning hair, grey face, looked like they couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. No, that's not what I want when I get to a "healthy" weight. I actually want to be HEALTHY first and foremost. Yup, the starvation diets in my 20s.... I remember that. Totally ineffective, unsustainable, and UNHEALTHY.

GrannySparkle

Answer me this.....I have had gastric bypass. My surgeon and the dietician have instructed me to eat 700-1000 calories. I usually do 600-800. I walk daily and loss a pound almost every other day. Yes, I take a multi-vit twice a day, Calcium + Vit D three times a day, B-1 and B-12 once a day.

Yes, I have hit platques from time to time but it never lasts for long. I usually up my calories or increase my walking. I am in the best health I have EVER been in.

So eating low calories is expectable...but I would suggest you do it under the supervision of doctor. The first 3 months after surgery I see the surgeon and dietician once a month. After 3 months I see them every 3 months till I am 18 months post op...then it is every 6.

kaotik26

The thing about this whole topic that gets me is that it seems like no matter how big or small you are, how much you want to lose or gain it's always 1200, like that's a magic number or something. We are all different and I think in the end I'm going to pay attention to my body and whether its telling me 'thirsty', 'hungry', 'stuffed' etc. Sometimes I come in under 1200 but my stomach is so full that I can't even drink anymore water. I just think that in the end it's what you're body needs, not a number on the computer screen. I actually today have only logged 800 some, yesterday was closer to 1500 in the end (bedtime snack did that one). If I'm hungry, like stomach growling and grouchy, I'm gonna eat, if I'm full I'm not gonna force anymore down and it happens, especially when I have eaten fresh veggies and fruits all day (at least I got the nutrients). This whole thing to me is about learning to not overeat and know what my body is telling me.

On a sidenote: I do want to say I understand that 600 calories a day for a straight period of time is going to destroy your body, maybe that is what this it aimed at instead. I just wanted to say what I had on my mind.

LoosingMyLast15

watch this blog, I implore you. it's everything I've been preaching for the last 5 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHHzie6XRGk

at 4' 11" i eat somewhere around 1200 (i say somewhere because sometimes it's higher - never lower) AFTER exercising and i'm plenty full. how can anyone survive on 600 calories a day???? seriously can you survive on that little amount?

SHBoss1673

Answer me this.....I have had gastric bypass. My surgeon and the dietician have instructed me to eat 700-1000 calories. I usually do 600-800. I walk daily and loss a pound almost every other day. Yes, I take a multi-vit twice a day, Calcium + Vit D three times a day, B-1 and B-12 once a day.

Yes, I have hit platques from time to time but it never lasts for long. I usually up my calories or increase my walking. I am in the best health I have EVER been in.

So eating low calories is expectable...but I would suggest you do it under the supervision of doctor. The first 3 months after surgery I see the surgeon and dietician once a month. After 3 months I see them every 3 months till I am 18 months post op...then it is every 6.

Surgery is a special case, you can't compare your situation to someone without it. It's a whole different ball of wax.

delekium

eh...bump

GrannySparkle

Answer me this.....I have had gastric bypass. My surgeon and the dietician have instructed me to eat 700-1000 calories. I usually do 600-800. I walk daily and loss a pound almost every other day. Yes, I take a multi-vit twice a day, Calcium + Vit D three times a day, B-1 and B-12 once a day.

Yes, I have hit platques from time to time but it never lasts for long. I usually up my calories or increase my walking. I am in the best health I have EVER been in.

So eating low calories is expectable...but I would suggest you do it under the supervision of doctor. The first 3 months after surgery I see the surgeon and dietician once a month. After 3 months I see them every 3 months till I am 18 months post op...then it is every 6.

Surgery is a special case, you can't compare your situation to someone without it. It's a whole different ball of wax.

But if it works for a gastric bypass patient why does it not work for anyone else.

RenewedRunner

Half of these "rebuttals" would make my collegiate debate coach fall on the floor writhing in frustration. Some of you leap to ludicrousness and the land of improbable to say the video is wrong.

To the OP, you can't save people who don't want to be saved. You posted a good video. Apparently have a PhD means nothing. That poor man, all that work and money for a degree just wasted <eye roll>

likepepsicola

watch this blog, I implore you. it's everything I've been preaching for the last 5 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHHzie6XRGk

at 4' 11" i eat somewhere around 1200 (i say somewhere because sometimes it's higher - never lower) AFTER exercising and i'm plenty full. how can anyone survive on 600 calories a day???? seriously can you survive on that little amount?

It depends how long you do it for and what you consider "survive". A few days probably won't do much harm. A few months could, but some might be lucky. Years though....yikes.

I'm 4'11" and when I was 16 - 17 years old, I ate 600 - 1000 calories a day for two years, got down to a BMI of 10.7 (53 lbs), nearly died. Fun times.

laurynwithawhy

First, THANK YOU! So refreshing to see validation in what I am doing.

Secondly, to all of the critics, I was not, and will never be a bodybuilder/fitness model. I was just a regular person who wanted to lose weight. A few years ago I was just like the person he describes in the video - constantly eating less and less calories and doing crazy amounts of cardio. By the end I was eating about 800 calories/day and burning at least 1000 calories/day doing 2-3 hours of cardio. It was torture, and at 5'3 148 pounds I was barely maintaining, let alone losing any weight.

Fast forward a few years and binge/diet cycles, I have finally kicked the habit of 1200 calories a day. I recently started eating 1700 calories, and incorporating p90x (I eat back about half of my exercise calories). Now I did it "the wrong way" and jumped right up to it, and to my amazement I have lost 4 pounds in the past 3 weeks doing this. Since I only have about 10 more pounds to lose this is huge for me. And, I'm never hungry, never tired, never too drained to get through a workout. It really is a much better way to live.

Try it. If you aren't losing as it is you have nothing to lose right?

chocl8girl

ABANDON THREAD!!



(ETA: Thank you to the OP for this video! :flowerforyou: )

SHBoss1673

Answer me this.....I have had gastric bypass. My surgeon and the dietician have instructed me to eat 700-1000 calories. I usually do 600-800. I walk daily and loss a pound almost every other day. Yes, I take a multi-vit twice a day, Calcium + Vit D three times a day, B-1 and B-12 once a day.

Yes, I have hit platques from time to time but it never lasts for long. I usually up my calories or increase my walking. I am in the best health I have EVER been in.

So eating low calories is expectable...but I would suggest you do it under the supervision of doctor. The first 3 months after surgery I see the surgeon and dietician once a month. After 3 months I see them every 3 months till I am 18 months post op...then it is every 6.

Surgery is a special case, you can't compare your situation to someone without it. It's a whole different ball of wax.

But if it works for a gastric bypass patient why does it not work for anyone else.

because these people are on a rigorous program with consequences that can be devastating if they don't follow them, with constant monitoring by health care professionals, blood work to confirm they aren't to low on micro-nutrients, and generally have a larger than normal volume of fat to draw from. Most people don't have the discipline to do this on their own. Even when used in a professional setting, the volume of lean mass lost is high, it's just not the normally recommended safe way to lose weight.
This doesn't take into account the secondary tasks needed to be successful with WLS which includes follow up, a complete change and continued monitoring and altering of diet for months and sometimes years, and the dangers involved with surgery. Your doctor should have gone over all this with you though, and explained why these nutrition practices shouldn't be attempted without proper medical supervision.
I'm talking about something that is much easier to integrate into a permanent lifestyle without making drastic changes. Sure it takes longer than crash diets do, but it's sustainable, and a much safer path to real maintenance.