To those doing very low cals (in the 600 to 1200 range)

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  • little_miss_panda
    little_miss_panda Posts: 79
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    I've completely given up on trying to argue against very low calorie diets. Those who believe in them are every bit as vociferous as those who believe they're bad for you. I have a friend who is particularly frustrating because she gains weight every time she tries to go on to "maintenance calories" from 1200 and therefore she now thinks she has to eat 1200 cals for the rest of her life and is rather miserable about it, yet she won't consider that eating 1200 cals is in itself the problem, or that her repeated illnessesm tiredness and binges on sugary and calorie dense foods might be related to the fact that she's not eating enough! I have now given up. She cannot understand how I can maintain my weight on around 1800 cals a day - she thinks I ought to be obese.

    MFP seems to pretty much default to 1200 cals for weight loss no matter what you plug into it, I think that's part of the problem.
  • DonnaLeeCattes
    DonnaLeeCattes Posts: 492 Member
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    bump
  • Koldnomore
    Koldnomore Posts: 1,613 Member
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    Awesome video, thanks!

    As far as 'helping people' just forget it. Most people can't be bothered to research anything for themselves, they just want a magic number but don't bother to find out how that number is calculated. I applaud you for continuing to try to explain things to people who can't be bothered to put in minimal effort to understand the information that is readily available.

    Here's another good read for anyone interested:
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/not-losing-fat-at-20-deficit-what-should-i-do-qa.html
  • amy1612
    amy1612 Posts: 1,356 Member
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    I never seen 1 person who has had weight loss surgery look great, with good muscle tone and definition.

    I have seen exactly ONE. She worked out hard before the surgery and she trains like a beast now. Her arms have shaped up amazingly, and she is one of the most dedicated people I've ever met. She does seem however, rare.
  • ALH1981
    ALH1981 Posts: 538 Member
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    i watched this - amazing!

    And im screwed...
  • Lyssa62
    Lyssa62 Posts: 930 Member
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    watch this blog, I implore you. it's everything I've been preaching for the last 5 years.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHHzie6XRGk

    Wow! I WISH I would have seen this video in July! I have no freakin idea what to do now. Everything he said not to do I have done :sick:

    PS I don't compete in anything..just a regular woman trying to lose and get fit and feel like I've totally messed up now.
  • Dave198lbs
    Dave198lbs Posts: 8,810 Member
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    I never seen 1 person who has had weight loss surgery look great, with good muscle tone and definition.

    I have seen exactly ONE. She worked out hard before the surgery and she trains like a beast now. Her arms have shaped up amazingly, and she is one of the most dedicated people I've ever met. She does seem however, rare.

    I have a friend who did it. I wasnt exactly on board with it because he ate like crap, but after going thru all the prep and that, he now works out, eats better and is a different and better looking much happier guy.
  • 89curves89
    89curves89 Posts: 26 Member
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    The guy doing this reminds me of Ross out of friends. Takes him forever to finish a sentence.
  • chrishg
    chrishg Posts: 35 Member
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    The OP should remember that the evidence he cites for his assertion is a youtube blog that is a presentation of one persons personal opinion and interpretation. It is not an accumulation of peer reviewed scientific papers from substantially qualified scientists or medics that amass evidence that would lead to a well evidenced hypothesis.


    By all means encourage (but perhaps not preach to) people to be healthy and work through this responsibly but beware setting your self up as an expert unless you have pieces of paper to support this! Thise with such qualifications rarely cite youtube blogs in their work!
  • Koldnomore
    Koldnomore Posts: 1,613 Member
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    watch this blog, I implore you. it's everything I've been preaching for the last 5 years.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHHzie6XRGk

    Wow! I WISH I would have seen this video in July! I have no freakin idea what to do now. Everything he said not to do I have done :sick:

    PS I don't compete in anything..just a regular woman trying to lose and get fit and feel like I've totally messed up now.

    Start by figuring out your TDEE, take an appropriate cut and then start adding calories slowly . See below for links for help and more info:

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/654536-in-place-of-a-road-map-2-0-revised-7-2-12
    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/510406-tdee-is-everything
    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/717858-spreadsheet-bmr-tdee-and-deficit-calcs-macros-hrm
  • KatrinaWilke
    KatrinaWilke Posts: 372 Member
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    This may be a stupid question but I just want to make sure I understand this. When you say the 600-1200 calories are you asking about net or total calories. MFP says I should net 1260 calories to lose my one pound a week.........I always eat my exercise calories back! I eat a total of about 1700 calories a day, but with exercise, I net around 1200. Would I be included in the too low calorie group?

    Thanks!
  • mareeee1234
    mareeee1234 Posts: 674 Member
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    LOVE THIS VIDEO! got me thinking!!
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,392 MFP Moderator
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    This may be a stupid question but I just want to make sure I understand this. When you say the 600-1200 calories are you asking about net or total calories. MFP says I should net 1260 calories to lose my one pound a week.........I always eat my exercise calories back! I eat a total of about 1700 calories a day, but with exercise, I net around 1200. Would I be included in the too low calorie group?

    Thanks!


    He is talking total... aka gross calories... Many people on MFP have a thought that eating exercise calories defeats the purpose of exercising. Little do people know that exercise is for fitness and muscle retention.. not weight loss. Diet is weight loss. And lack of diet can lead to muscle loss...
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,392 MFP Moderator
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    The OP should remember that the evidence he cites for his assertion is a youtube blog that is a presentation of one persons personal opinion and interpretation. It is not an accumulation of peer reviewed scientific papers from substantially qualified scientists or medics that amass evidence that would lead to a well evidenced hypothesis.


    By all means encourage (but perhaps not preach to) people to be healthy and work through this responsibly but beware setting your self up as an expert unless you have pieces of paper to support this! Thise with such qualifications rarely cite youtube blogs in their work!

    Read these

    I'm going to put out a much more comprehensive analysis one of these days. I'm a science guy, I don't put much stock in the diet industry. I look at research and studies.

    That being said, I was frustrated at some of the responses on this thread. So I did what I always do, I did research to see if there was any science to back up the claims.

    Guess what....there is. So not only is there qualitative (observational) proof (the video) but there is also research to back up the theory.

    I found tons of research on it, but here are some of the more readable and better designed studies.

    Fair warning, they are scientific studies and difficult to read if you don't have a science background. But they are all clear, RMR is reduced when in calorie deficit over the long term, and reduced by more than can be accounted for by the loss of fat free mass (muscle).


    http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v15/n12/full/oby2007354a.html

    http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/49/1/93.full.pdf+html

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/oby.2007.354/full

    http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/52/6/981.full.pdf+html

    http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1108368
  • Dave198lbs
    Dave198lbs Posts: 8,810 Member
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    This may be a stupid question but I just want to make sure I understand this. When you say the 600-1200 calories are you asking about net or total calories. MFP says I should net 1260 calories to lose my one pound a week.........I always eat my exercise calories back! I eat a total of about 1700 calories a day, but with exercise, I net around 1200. Would I be included in the too low calorie group?

    Thanks!


    He is talking total... aka gross calories... Many people on MFP have a thought that eating exercise calories defeats the purpose of exercising. Little do people know that exercise is for fitness and muscle retention.. not weight loss. Diet is weight loss. And lack of diet can lead to muscle loss...

    true

    but most people think "diet" means low total calories

    the concept of NET calories does not jive with how new people think of weight loss

    basic information about metabolism and healthy macros receive little if any emphasis here.

    MFP says 1200 calories with higher than needed carbs and lower than optimal protein and people just accept it
  • Gapwedge01
    Gapwedge01 Posts: 494
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    I've completely given up on trying to argue against very low calorie diets. Those who believe in them are every bit as vociferous as those who believe they're bad for you. I have a friend who is particularly frustrating because she gains weight every time she tries to go on to "maintenance calories" from 1200 and therefore she now thinks she has to eat 1200 cals for the rest of her life and is rather miserable about it, yet she won't consider that eating 1200 cals is in itself the problem, or that her repeated illnessesm tiredness and binges on sugary and calorie dense foods might be related to the fact that she's not eating enough! I have now given up. She cannot understand how I can maintain my weight on around 1800 cals a day - she thinks I ought to be obese.

    MFP seems to pretty much default to 1200 cals for weight loss no matter what you plug into it, I think that's part of the problem.

    ^^^This
    A little self education on BMR and TDEE would work wonders on those that blindly follow others advice of eating below their BMR. That is a formula for losing weight in the beginning but it is a combination of fat and LBM not just fat. After that a stall. The goal is to lose BF and eat at a deficit to your calculated TDEE. Is that too difficult to comprehend?
  • KatrinaWilke
    KatrinaWilke Posts: 372 Member
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    Thanks for the response! I was a little confused and started freaking out that I might be damaging my body. I am definitely not one of those that think eating back exercise calories defeats the purpose of dieting. I don't even count my calories during the weekend because I am usually so active it doesn't matter what I eat! I also do long distance running/bicycling races.......if I didn't eat back my calories I would bonk and not be able to finish!!
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,392 MFP Moderator
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    This may be a stupid question but I just want to make sure I understand this. When you say the 600-1200 calories are you asking about net or total calories. MFP says I should net 1260 calories to lose my one pound a week.........I always eat my exercise calories back! I eat a total of about 1700 calories a day, but with exercise, I net around 1200. Would I be included in the too low calorie group?

    Thanks!


    He is talking total... aka gross calories... Many people on MFP have a thought that eating exercise calories defeats the purpose of exercising. Little do people know that exercise is for fitness and muscle retention.. not weight loss. Diet is weight loss. And lack of diet can lead to muscle loss...

    true

    but most people think "diet" means low total calories

    the concept of NET calories does not jive with how new people think of weight loss

    basic information about metabolism and healthy macros receive little if any emphasis here.

    MFP says 1200 calories with higher than needed carbs and lower than optimal protein and people just accept it

    Oh I completely agree. I would love if MFP had an option to revise macro's based on fitness goals. Essentially adjust carbs and protein away from the USDA standard.
  • KatrinaWilke
    KatrinaWilke Posts: 372 Member
    Options
    This may be a stupid question but I just want to make sure I understand this. When you say the 600-1200 calories are you asking about net or total calories. MFP says I should net 1260 calories to lose my one pound a week.........I always eat my exercise calories back! I eat a total of about 1700 calories a day, but with exercise, I net around 1200. Would I be included in the too low calorie group?

    Thanks!


    He is talking total... aka gross calories... Many people on MFP have a thought that eating exercise calories defeats the purpose of exercising. Little do people know that exercise is for fitness and muscle retention.. not weight loss. Diet is weight loss. And lack of diet can lead to muscle loss...

    true

    but most people think "diet" means low total calories

    the concept of NET calories does not jive with how new people think of weight loss

    basic information about metabolism and healthy macros receive little if any emphasis here.

    MFP says 1200 calories with higher than needed carbs and lower than optimal protein and people just accept it

    You are right!! I noticed that I never get close to the carb recommendation on MFP........I just ignore it. And I am always over on protein........again I ignore that. I have done my own research and have taken enough classes in nutrition to know that these numbers are not right for me!!
  • Dave198lbs
    Dave198lbs Posts: 8,810 Member
    Options
    This may be a stupid question but I just want to make sure I understand this. When you say the 600-1200 calories are you asking about net or total calories. MFP says I should net 1260 calories to lose my one pound a week.........I always eat my exercise calories back! I eat a total of about 1700 calories a day, but with exercise, I net around 1200. Would I be included in the too low calorie group?

    Thanks!


    He is talking total... aka gross calories... Many people on MFP have a thought that eating exercise calories defeats the purpose of exercising. Little do people know that exercise is for fitness and muscle retention.. not weight loss. Diet is weight loss. And lack of diet can lead to muscle loss...

    true

    but most people think "diet" means low total calories

    the concept of NET calories does not jive with how new people think of weight loss

    basic information about metabolism and healthy macros receive little if any emphasis here.

    MFP says 1200 calories with higher than needed carbs and lower than optimal protein and people just accept it

    Oh I completely agree. I would love if MFP had an option to revise macro's based on fitness goals. Essentially adjust carbs and protein away from the USDA standard.

    it does have the option

    go to goals
    change goals

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