Paleo eating?
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re: chickens
I, uh, don't believe I've read anything about this from Sisson, Wolf, etc. in the Paleo literature.
See? There really isn't one and only one definition of Paleo.
ETA: clarification of subject0 -
One more that solidifies the point: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18370664
Abstract
Published reports show that low carbohydrate weight loss diets provide a metabolic advantage, a greater weight loss per calorie consumed compared to isocaloric high carbohydrate diets. These reports have not been refuted but rather largely ignored, presumably because of the apparent violation of the laws of thermodynamics ("a calorie is a calorie"). In this review, we show that there is no such violation of thermodynamic laws. Energy utilization of different diets depends on the chemical pathway taken and a metabolic analysis of the efficiency of different pathways reveals large differences. Likewise, thermogenesis produced by diets of different macronutrient composition varies widely. We present a plausible mechanism that depends on the inefficiency of metabolic cycles and, in particular, protein turnover. A low carbohydrate diet makes demands on protein turnover for gluconeogenesis. From a theoretical point of view,energy balance between two diets is to be expected only if the subjects have the same final physiologic state, and only if all of the changes contributing to the energy, heat, work and chemical effects are known. Most diet experiments do not conform to this ideal. There is no theoretical contradiction in metabolic advantage and no theoretical barrier to accepting reports describing this effect.0 -
One more that solidifies the point: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18370664
Abstract
Published reports show that low carbohydrate weight loss diets provide a metabolic advantage, a greater weight loss per calorie consumed compared to isocaloric high carbohydrate diets. These reports have not been refuted but rather largely ignored, presumably because of the apparent violation of the laws of thermodynamics ("a calorie is a calorie"). In this review, we show that there is no such violation of thermodynamic laws. Energy utilization of different diets depends on the chemical pathway taken and a metabolic analysis of the efficiency of different pathways reveals large differences. Likewise, thermogenesis produced by diets of different macronutrient composition varies widely. We present a plausible mechanism that depends on the inefficiency of metabolic cycles and, in particular, protein turnover. A low carbohydrate diet makes demands on protein turnover for gluconeogenesis. From a theoretical point of view,energy balance between two diets is to be expected only if the subjects have the same final physiologic state, and only if all of the changes contributing to the energy, heat, work and chemical effects are known. Most diet experiments do not conform to this ideal. There is no theoretical contradiction in metabolic advantage and no theoretical barrier to accepting reports describing this effect.
Lol Feinman and Fine
http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2012/03/first-law-of-thermo-still-doesnt.html0 -
I eat very little processed food or sugar, not a lot of grains, but I couldn't give up beans, peanut butter and yogurt.0
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Like I said before, it doe not matter what study anyone posts, you will find a way to pretend it isn't valid. You are the one with blinders on, sorry. It works, for many of us. Stop getting your panties in a bunch over someone else's life choice.
Yesterday I posted one on elite level gymnasts having ZERO effect on their performance in controlled conditions over 30 days.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22835211
RESULTS:
No significant differences were detected between VLCKD and WD in all strength tests. Significant differences were found in body weight and body composition: after VLCKD there was a decrease in body weight (from 69.6 ± 7.3 Kg to 68.0 ± 7.5 Kg) and fat mass (from 5.3 ± 1.3 Kg to 3.4 ± 0.8 Kg p < 0.001) with a non-significant increase in muscle mass.
LOL at bob and franstein or whoever all you want. Your angry unjustified attacks are your problem, but stop misinforming people who are asking for help.0 -
Like I said before, it doe not matter what study anyone posts, you will find a way to pretend it isn't valid. You are the one with blinders on, sorry. It works, for many of us. Stop getting your panties in a bunch over someone else's life choice.
Yesterday I posted one on elite level gymnasts having ZERO effect on their performance in controlled conditions over 30 days.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22835211
RESULTS:
No significant differences were detected between VLCKD and WD in all strength tests. Significant differences were found in body weight and body composition: after VLCKD there was a decrease in body weight (from 69.6 ± 7.3 Kg to 68.0 ± 7.5 Kg) and fat mass (from 5.3 ± 1.3 Kg to 3.4 ± 0.8 Kg p < 0.001) with a non-significant increase in muscle mass.
LOL at bob and franstein or whoever all you want. Your angry unjustified attacks are your problem, but stop misinforming people who are asking for help.
Where did I spread misinformation? I'm not the one posting Feinman and Fine studies. Also when did I ever saw low carb diets weren't effective?
The gymnast study, who'd a thunk that bodyweight exercises wouldn't really be effected when they lost weight, therefore making the exercises less strenuous. The fat adaption theory is a low carb fantasy still0 -
I thought paleo eating was about eating bugs and fruit
I was hoping for some meal worm recipes. 0 -
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You did it for me.Where did I spread misinformation? ...The fat adaption theory is a low carb fantasy still0 -
How about some objective research review by the author of The Ketogenic Diet, The Stubborn Fat Solution and several other books in which he advocates low-carb/ketogenic diets in at least part of the regimen?:One more that solidifies the point: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18370664
Abstract
Published reports show that low carbohydrate weight loss diets provide a metabolic advantage, a greater weight loss per calorie consumed compared to isocaloric high carbohydrate diets. ....
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/ketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-have-no-metabolic-advantage-over-nonketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-research-review.html
Here's a snippet from his commentary at the conclusion of the research review:I guess my point is that there is too much variance between individuals and their needs to claim that any single diet is inherently superior for all people and all situations. As this study suggests, given identical calories and protein intake, there doesn’t seem to be any inherent metabolic advantage in terms of total fat loss to a full blown ketogenic diet, at least not when compared to a moderate carbohydrate diet with an identical amount of protein.
I'm not anti-low carb. I feel it has merit in some situations and creates better satiety and adherence in some people; in fact, I generally adhere to a "lower" (although not ketogenic) carb diet myself. It has been proven that protein has a higher TEF than carbs or fat. But I don't believe any "metabolic advantage" has been scientifically proven.0 -
Am I too late? Who brought the Paleo friendly popcorn?!0
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You did it for me.Where did I spread misinformation? ...The fat adaption theory is a low carb fantasy still
Still has yet to be substantiated, and what is the study above you posted supposed to prove? No control and "Calories in the diet were unlimited"?0 -
Still has yet to be proven wrong also. So therefore you are also wrong. Not a fantasy, not a fact.0
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Am I too late? Who brought the Paleo friendly popcorn?!
Fun fact: All popcorn is non-GMO.0 -
Still has yet to be proven wrong also. So therefore you are also wrong. Not a fantasy, not a fact.
If you think so, I suggest you do more research on the so called fat adaptation theory0 -
Honestly I would just love for the bashing to stop. I'd much rather disagree and not argue about it and talk about things we do agree with, like wild coconuts.0
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If you think so, I suggest you do more research on the so called fat adaptation theory
And I encourage you to look into the energy expenditure difference in the same person who is in a carbohydrate rich diet vs someone who is three weeks into ketogenisis. I only know of one place and that's some guy at the eating academy. I have no clue if he is an LOL or legit but seems to have taken the time and got his own machine to measure vo2max in both states.
I would LOVE for a great semi conclusive study to be made that isn't biased, but for now, it really does seem to work for my snowflake. I have nothing else to ever add to it.0 -
It's always fun to see a battle of the clinical studies. Study says eating carbs can lead to obesity... hell no! Study says reducing carbs can reduce obesity. Hell no! Paleo threads are such fun for this.
Newsflash... researchers primarily do studies to support their hypotheses. It doesn't mean the data is wrong or bad, or the researcher is wrong or bad. It just means it communicates a small piece of information. It might look at one particular mechanism of action... one particular biochemical pathway... one therapeutic endpoint. And the study authors often draw large conclusions from that one piece of information, or the news hounds grab one tiny tidbit from the abstract and try to make a sensation out if.
I work in the pharma industry... I see how studies are designed to look for specific endpoints and not others in order to gather data that supports the hypothesis. That's why drawing a conclusion (or refuting a conclusion) based on one study is not really easy, and will always be debated. Actually, with drug trials, the data is usually pretty strong because the trials are generally powered really high, with multiple trials are done for each drug, and then there are head-to-head trials so data from many angles are collected. And still... the data is generally skewed. That doesn't mean it's wrong, or the drugs don't do what they claim to do or aren't safe as they say they are... but the trials are designed to serve a purpose.
Anyways...
You don't like low-carb diets? Go read anti-low-carb blogs, and your pre-existing notions will be affirmed.
You love low-carb diets? Go read low-carb blogs, and your pre-existing notions will be affirmed.
I think it is true that some people (myself included) find eating lower carb helps them lose weight. Maybe that's because of the metabolic pathways described in the above article. Maybe it's because they are able to stick to their calorie deficit better with a low carb diet. Maybe they have eliminated foods that trigger cravings/binges. Maybe they have eliminated foods that were causing leaky gut or other digestive issues. Maybe the winds were blowing the right way for them this time, with this diet, and it clicked. Whatever the reason, if it helps them, it's real for them.
It's true that some people do not like eating lower carb. The feel deprived of foods they love. They can't imagine life without "X". For them, reducing or eliminating any particular food would set up cravings, which would derail their progress. For them, that's real.
It's true that some people do a great job of moderating all foods, and are able to easily eat at a deficit. Awesome.
It's true that moderating all foods, and eating at a deficit, is hard for some people.
It's also true that for MOST people, whether they eat low carb or low fat or low whatever, they are still human, they still "cheat" or "treat" in order to stay sane and adapt to the eating reality around them.
To the OP... I would NOT recommend Paleo if you don't like to cook. I think it would be pretty impossible. You can still make an effort to eat more veggies, buy higher quality meats, and eat foods with limited ingredients. Check labels. Even if you buy prepared stuff, choose the brand that has the least ingredients... ingredients that are actual foods and not chemicals. Good luck.0 -
prepare for a thrashing.. by some opinionated folks.. but there is a group.....
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/37-primal-paleo-support-group
^^ This^^0 -
If you think so, I suggest you do more research on the so called fat adaptation theory
And I encourage you to look into the energy expenditure difference in the same person who is in a carbohydrate rich diet vs someone who is three weeks into ketogenisis. I only know of one place and that's some guy at the eating academy. I have no clue if he is an LOL or legit but seems to have taken the time and got his own machine to measure vo2max in both states.
I would LOVE for a great semi conclusive study to be made that isn't biased, but for now, it really does seem to work for my snowflake. I have nothing else to ever add to it.
You are referring to a metabolic advantage to low carb diets, which magically disappears when protein and cals are held constant, this has been demonstrated in the vast majority of metabolic ward studies, if however you just want the few that would support the metabolic advantage to low carb you can look at the Kekwick and Rabst studies and ignore the rest and keep your blinders on as you like to say0 -
your study+my study=dead horse
You aren't changing, I am not changing, so lets get back to coconuts.0 -
The paleo/primal lifestyle was the answer i had been searching for. I have never felt better in my life. I am not 100%, but I am working on it. My advice is research it, and if you think you can commit to it for the rest of your life then try it, if not then it may not be for you. And that really is my advice on any "lifestyle change".0
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Eating a calorie deficit DOES NOT work for everyone!! Been doing that for years and I haven't lost a pound
This is false. You are not a special snowflake. Calorie deficit = weight loss. You are making a miscalculation somewhere.
Yes, I am a "special snowflake", by your standards, and so are other people that have experienced the same health improvements from a paleo/primal lifestyle. Stick to what YOU know. I did many years of low fat calorie counting and in return, I developed a body that became very effecient at NOT burning calories.
So you're losing weight now, on Paleo, while also eating a calorie surplus?
Nope I eat in a calorie deficit because i no longer have UNCONTROLLABLE HUNGER, bingeing, chronic pain, fatigue, etc etc etc. Is it even possible to over eat on a ketogenic form of paleo/primal? Because as long as I keep my carbs low, I don't overeat, without even trying not to. Go figure. So, no, I can't stay in a calorie deficit when I am eating lots of unhealthy food. Imagine that.0 -
I am currently eating paleo as part of an experiment. Things I have noticed:
As someone with a family, career, and side business, there is absolutely no way I have time for all the cooking/food prep involved (I have two weeks off now, so have time to actually cook every meal, which is awesome).
The food I can make is awesome. I miss carbs, but am getting used to the Keto.
It is REALLY hard to eat at a surplus. I could easily eat 1500 cals per day and be sated. I think this is why many people who suck at self control, calorie tracking, and portion control start losing weight on this diet. I can down 3000 calories in a carb heavy meal, and have not been able to hit 3000 calories in a DAY on this diet, even doing things like adding ghee to my coffee etc.
I think most "paleo" people are pretty ignorant about both health/nutrition and about their own diet, but have met some who are extremely knowledgable.. I think the ignorant fanboys give the movement a bad rep.
Some things that I think are vital in recreating an ancestral lifestyle that are ignored by the paleo Taliban crown:
Intermittent fasting
Seasonally appropriate foods (i.e. eat foods that are locally available in your current season)
Climate exposure (sun/heat in summer, cold in winter... The affect metabolism significantly)
Seasonally appropriate Macronutrient intake (summer diet should include more carbs due to higher availability. Winter should be very low carb, rich in animal products, similar to what most people think of when they hear paleo).
I do not think paleo is necessary for exceptional health, just reasonable food intake, exercise, and low meal frequency/regular fasting. I think low-carb diets are overrated, and overused under the mistaken belief that low carb = low insulin. This is completely untrue, and insulin levels are easily controlled via regular fasting and low meal frequency. Also, even if protein produced 0 insulin, you would still get fat at a caloric surplus via the ASP pathway of lipogenesis.
I am trying paleo in the hopes that it will help with some nagging autoimmune issues, which, despite getting my HS CRP down under 1 with IF still seem to be an issue. Result so far have not been positive, but I intend to give it some time.
Edit: pardon typos. Typed on phone, too lazy to fix.0 -
Eating a calorie deficit DOES NOT work for everyone!! Been doing that for years and I haven't lost a pound
This is false. You are not a special snowflake. Calorie deficit = weight loss. You are making a miscalculation somewhere.
Yes, I am a "special snowflake", by your standards, and so are other people that have experienced the same health improvements from a paleo/primal lifestyle. Stick to what YOU know. I did many years of low fat calorie counting and in return, I developed a body that became very effecient at NOT burning calories.
So you're losing weight now, on Paleo, while also eating a calorie surplus?
Nope I eat in a calorie deficit because i no longer have UNCONTROLLABLE HUNGER, bingeing, chronic pain, fatigue, etc etc etc. Is it even possible to over eat on a ketogenic form of paleo/primal? Because as long as I keep my carbs low, I don't overeat, without even trying not to. Go figure.
So, yes you are in a calorie deficit. That was the point, a caloric deficit is required.
So, no, I can't stay in a calorie deficit when I am eating lots of unhealthy food. Imagine that.
Weird, cause a ton of people on this site manage to. Imagine that.0 -
Eating a calorie deficit DOES NOT work for everyone!! Been doing that for years and I haven't lost a pound
This is false. You are not a special snowflake. Calorie deficit = weight loss. You are making a miscalculation somewhere.
Yes, I am a "special snowflake", by your standards, and so are other people that have experienced the same health improvements from a paleo/primal lifestyle. Stick to what YOU know. I did many years of low fat calorie counting and in return, I developed a body that became very effecient at NOT burning calories.
Please enlighten us. Are you currently eating at a surplus and losing weight? Or do you just wave your magic wand and the lbs melt away?
Yup, that's exactly what I do. When one is no longer sick, it's amazing what can be achieved. Supernatural powers; at least against illness, obesity, and eating disorders. (did I say I am currently eating a surplus? Pretty sure that I claimed no such thing... love the lack of logic used to try to discredit others... LOL)0 -
Eating a calorie deficit DOES NOT work for everyone!! Been doing that for years and I haven't lost a pound
This is false. You are not a special snowflake. Calorie deficit = weight loss. You are making a miscalculation somewhere.
Yes, I am a "special snowflake", by your standards, and so are other people that have experienced the same health improvements from a paleo/primal lifestyle. Stick to what YOU know. I did many years of low fat calorie counting and in return, I developed a body that became very effecient at NOT burning calories.
Please enlighten us. Are you currently eating at a surplus and losing weight? Or do you just wave your magic wand and the lbs melt away?
Yup, that's exactly what I do. When one is no longer sick, it's amazing what can be achieved. Supernatural powers; at least against illness, obesity, and eating disorders. (did I say I am currently eating a surplus? Pretty sure that I claimed no such thing... love the lack of logic used to try to discredit others... LOL)
I am pretty sure the question mark at the end of "Are you currently eating at a surplus and losing weight?" means it was a question. My original post was also directed toward the person who actually created the thread so I'm not sure why you decided to answer about yourself seeing as I don't care about YOUR answer. I've seen you all over every paleo thread, I know your opinion on it. LOL. So I'm not sure where you're coming up with the "lack of logic" I used.
I was unaware that I am sick. I didn't know I has illness, obesity, and eating disorders. Learn something new every day. :flowerforyou:0 -
Yet another thread sacrificed by fire to Akimajuktuq, Lovecraftian God whose physical properties cannot be defined as she is not of this earth0
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It's a serious commitment and not a great idea if you're not planning to live by it long-term.
It is a commitment but not sure why it isnt good for long-term?0 -
It's a serious commitment and not a great idea if you're not planning to live by it long-term.
It is a commitment but not sure why it isnt good for long-term?
You misunderstand. Please reread. If you're using it short-term, it's not a great idea.0
This discussion has been closed.
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