Milk and fiscal cliff

algebravoodoo

I honestly wish subsidies would end. When you major in Econ in college you learn about how this negatively affects everything. Rent controls, price controls, faming subsidies, cost of gasoline, it's all insane. The true price of things should be what they are and less expensive alternatives will emerge in the market.

Sorry I got a little into politics. But, you can't discuss it without heading there, because that's the cause of it.

But without subsidies, we would have to raise wages so people could afford food. And that would be *gasp* socialism!! Oh noes!!!

This is a discussion that needs to be had. I did not major in econ but I can see the potential negative effects of artificially supressed prices.

algebravoodoo

Great discussion everyone and some good ideas. I honestly don't know what I'm going to do if a resolution isn't reached, will play it by ear.

On the egg side of it our city recently passed a regulation allowing a limited number of citizens to raise laying hens. So now our next door neighbor and one across the street have hens. I've already threatened them with egg theft.

Back when we had all of the kids living at home, we raised our own laying hens. If you intend to feed them nothing but chicken chow from the coop, then it will be more expensive than just buying the eggs. We had a larger area we could let our hens free range on for bugs and such and supplemented with grains. Those were the best tasting eggs and almost free in the long run! A dozen hens more than supplied our household and extra were given to friends and family.

Pr1nceps

thanks obama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

amdahwd

"thanks obama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I really wondered how far into the thread I would have to read before I read that...

grward612

"thanks obama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I really wondered how far into the thread I would have to read before I read that...

And yet, Obama has little, if nothing, to do with the Farm Bill. Legislators hash it out well before it ends up on the President's desk. It's the Congressional members that write the bill.

And everyone should stop worrying. Milk will not go up. The 2008 Farm Bill will be extend at least one year.

PhearlessPhreaks

I honestly wish subsidies would end. When you major in Econ in college you learn about how this negatively affects everything. Rent controls, price controls, faming subsidies, cost of gasoline, it's all insane. The true price of things should be what they are and less expensive alternatives will emerge in the market.

Sorry I got a little into politics. But, you can't discuss it without heading there, because that's the cause of it.

Cause food riots are a blast, right?

That's what will happen if subsidies end.

Well, the government got itself in a pickle, didn't it. It wasn't intended this way. Each thing was a small way to help. But, now people have come to rely on the government controlling market dynamics. Which is pretty much why I laugh when people claim that the USA is a free market. My *kitten* we are. Lol.

Gotta go with never on this one. Yes, the initial fallout would suck hard, but ultimately things would even out, and, as noted, other, less expensive alternatives would indeed emerge. This, of course, is all predicated on a truly free market. Ultimately, I think it would drive people to purchase locally; while it's sometimes more expensive right now, if subsidies end, it would likely be more cost effective. Highly doubtful we'll ever find out, though.

PhearlessPhreaks

Very well said!

And as for societies doing a terrible job of redistributing wealth, the US hasn't done so well, but many western European nations (e.g. the Dutch) have done a far better job at caring for their populous. In contrast, the US has taken a lot of half measures and has had little follow-through--pretty much a recipe for not solving a serious problem.

I feel compelled to point out that the Netherlands, and pretty much every other country that people like to reference in support of government control/regulation have a population that is a fraction of the US. It's much easier to provide free education, healthcare, etc… when you're doing it for a few million, as opposed to hundreds of millions.

jpwic

Forgive my ignorance, but how much do you pay for a gallon of milk in the states? I know in Canada (Quebec mind you), I'm paying $6.00 or so for 4 liters (roughly a gallon). Ontario pays a less than that I believe though.

victoria4321

Forgive my ignorance, but how much do you pay for a gallon of milk in the states? I know in Canada (Quebec mind you), I'm paying $6.00 or so for 4 liters (roughly a gallon). Ontario pays a less than that I believe though.

I pay $10/gal in nyc for raw milk. I'm not sure what it costs at the supermarket now but the last time I bought supermarket milk as a kid it was 2.75/gal

Troll

One of the neighbors with chickens is a crotchety old coot and when I asked him what his chickens names were he looked at me as if I were nuts. If I had chickens they would be my girls too.

LOL All 4 of mine have names. We lost two of our original three earlier this year and I buried them in our old horse pasture. A friend thought I was nuts for doing that. There's no point in having a rooster unless they free range (which they would not in the city) or if you want to raise chicks. They don't need a boy to make eggs. My hubby said absolutely not to a rooster because of the noise. The hens make hardly any noise at all.

we plan on raisinv them . they wont be pets unfortunately. when we get ready, theyll be slaughtered.

Asavitzk

I pay about $3.50/gallon on average these days for whole milk for the kids.

jilliew

I honestly wish subsidies would end. When you major in Econ in college you learn about how this negatively affects everything. Rent controls, price controls, faming subsidies, cost of gasoline, it's all insane. The true price of things should be what they are and less expensive alternatives will emerge in the market.

Sorry I got a little into politics. But, you can't discuss it without heading there, because that's the cause of it.

Cause food riots are a blast, right?

That's what will happen if subsidies end.

Well, the government got itself in a pickle, didn't it. It wasn't intended this way. Each thing was a small way to help. But, now people have come to rely on the government controlling market dynamics. Which is pretty much why I laugh when people claim that the USA is a free market. My *kitten* we are. Lol.

...and Americans are worried about socialized medicine...?

sunsnstatheart

I honestly wish subsidies would end. When you major in Econ in college you learn about how this negatively affects everything. Rent controls, price controls, faming subsidies, cost of gasoline, it's all insane. The true price of things should be what they are and less expensive alternatives will emerge in the market.

Sorry I got a little into politics. But, you can't discuss it without heading there, because that's the cause of it.

Cause food riots are a blast, right?

That's what will happen if subsidies end.

Well, the government got itself in a pickle, didn't it. It wasn't intended this way. Each thing was a small way to help. But, now people have come to rely on the government controlling market dynamics. Which is pretty much why I laugh when people claim that the USA is a free market. My *kitten* we are. Lol.

Indeed we are not, and if you look at the countries with the closest thing to a free market what you will see is a very small number of very rich people and a whole lot of very poor people and a lot of slaughter.

Societies have the right to create laws and distribute wealth in ways that maintain a healthy, prosperous population. The US doesn't do it nearly as well as many countries in Europe, however.

It is not the job of society to distribute wealth, if you look they do a terrible job of it. How's the war on poverty doing that Johnson started? Entitlements are what are going to send us over the fiscal cliff ya know

I watched a documentary once where a bunch of people on social security were bad mouthing people who lived off said "entitlements". It seriously was too funny.

Yea, I watched a documentary once too. Its why I stopped relying on documentaries for information. If find that education and reading help. Something sorely missing here.

lwagnitz

I honestly wish subsidies would end. When you major in Econ in college you learn about how this negatively affects everything. Rent controls, price controls, faming subsidies, cost of gasoline, it's all insane. The true price of things should be what they are and less expensive alternatives will emerge in the market.

Sorry I got a little into politics. But, you can't discuss it without heading there, because that's the cause of it.

Cause food riots are a blast, right?

That's what will happen if subsidies end.

Well, the government got itself in a pickle, didn't it. It wasn't intended this way. Each thing was a small way to help. But, now people have come to rely on the government controlling market dynamics. Which is pretty much why I laugh when people claim that the USA is a free market. My *kitten* we are. Lol.

...and Americans are worried about socialized medicine...?

:drinker:

jilliew

Forgive my ignorance, but how much do you pay for a gallon of milk in the states? I know in Canada (Quebec mind you), I'm paying $6.00 or so for 4 liters (roughly a gallon). Ontario pays a less than that I believe though.

Yikes!! In Alberta we pay between $3.50 and $4.50 depending on where you shop!

Onesnap

actually milk is not going up.

If you do dairy make sure it is organic and hormone and antibiotic free. If you don't do cow's milk try goat or sheep's milk. Do yourself a favor and don't spend money on the stuff that's not from small family farms.

Onesnap

Forgive my ignorance, but how much do you pay for a gallon of milk in the states? I know in Canada (Quebec mind you), I'm paying $6.00 or so for 4 liters (roughly a gallon). Ontario pays a less than that I believe though.

Yikes!! In Alberta we pay between $3.50 and $4.50 depending on where you shop!

I only buy Organic and from small farms. I'm okay with paying more.

Onesnap

Forgive my ignorance, but how much do you pay for a gallon of milk in the states? I know in Canada (Quebec mind you), I'm paying $6.00 or so for 4 liters (roughly a gallon). Ontario pays a less than that I believe though.

I pay $10/gal in nyc for raw milk. I'm not sure what it costs at the supermarket now but the last time I bought supermarket milk as a kid it was 2.75/gal

wow, come to MA. Our raw milk is way cheaper.

Onesnap

thanks obama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Politics talk is not allowed on the forums, btw.

wellbert

Considering the cost of milk, against the nutritional value, it's insanely cheap currently. 2400cal/126 protein for less than 3 bucks?