Fatism
Replies
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Well, it's been nice talking to you guys but I think this thread is doomed now lol.
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Particularly when many of us who gained weight medically do so rather quickly... there's no getting used to it, just a desperation to get back!
Correct. I gained weight from overeating which was due to having a 750 cal BMR, which I found out about only recently! There are people on this site ("experts") who say that you MUST eat 1500 or 2000 or x number of calories/day. These are the same "experts" who say that it's just as easy and/or inexpensive to cook and pack a lunch.
I may or may not be an isolated case, but my point is that none of you know the particular situation of any overweight/obese person. Even though you think you may be able to blame it on x, y, or z, you need to understand the reality of the world we live in which is that:
1. health care is expensive, and increasing in cost due to obesity (cyclical)
2. healthy eating is oftentimes inconvenient and possibly more expensive (at least perceived this way)
3. people do not take personal responsibility for themselves
4. the government subsidizes the wrong food groups (corn, dairy) and
5. as much as you think you're an expert on good health, weight loss, etc., educate those around you instead of being so judgmental.
You have to keep in mind that there's no need to pejorative to people who talk about certain amounts of calories. You, and me, I guess, are in a minority... that doesn't make science wrong, or those people wrong.
Anyway, why is your BMR so low? That seems more pituitary than thyroid... and what thyroid meds are you on?0 -
I guess the point I was trying to make was that it seems more socially acceptable to judge/tease/taunt/hurt/insult fat people than it is to be racist, homophobic etc ... at least in some parts of society. The Facebook post proves it.
epic fail. racism is far more socially acceptable than you will ever know.0 -
If you have spent any time around a group of young men (20's, early 30's range in general) you know a lot of jokes go on about overweight women. It happens all the time whether you hear about it or not... it's not right or nice but it happens. Having had many guy friends, I've heard some pretty mean stuff said in jest and I've sometimes addressed it, but it's just the way it is. You can either worry about what everyone else says while snickering behind your back or you can try to take care of yourself for you and be the best you can be. If people really want to poke fun, I'm sure there's something about anyone they could find funny. The world can be cruel. I shall keep my pizzas.0
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You can either be the person who "doesn't want to start anything" or the voice of change.
There is a big difference in wanting to incite change and poking cruel fun at someone. "I'll just abuse and make fun of this specific group of people and that will cause them to change and become acceptable"........0 -
Particularly when many of us who gained weight medically do so rather quickly... there's no getting used to it, just a desperation to get back!
Correct. I gained weight from overeating which was due to having a 750 cal BMR, which I found out about only recently! There are people on this site ("experts") who say that you MUST eat 1500 or 2000 or x number of calories/day. These are the same "experts" who say that it's just as easy and/or inexpensive to cook and pack a lunch.
I may or may not be an isolated case, but my point is that none of you know the particular situation of any overweight/obese person. Even though you think you may be able to blame it on x, y, or z, you need to understand the reality of the world we live in which is that:
1. health care is expensive, and increasing in cost due to obesity (cyclical)
2. healthy eating is oftentimes inconvenient and possibly more expensive (at least perceived this way)
3. people do not take personal responsibility for themselves
4. the government subsidizes the wrong food groups (corn, dairy) and
5. as much as you think you're an expert on good health, weight loss, etc., educate those around you instead of being so judgmental.
You have to keep in mind that there's no need to pejorative to people who talk about certain amounts of calories. You, and me, I guess, are in a minority... that doesn't make science wrong, or those people wrong.
Anyway, why is your BMR so low? That seems more pituitary than thyroid... and what thyroid meds are you on?
What IS wrong is presenting oneself as an expert and making blanket statements (which I've seen often in my 18 months on this site) like "no one should be eating under 1800 calories/day". This simply is not true and could cause people to be totally mislead. What should be said is, "you need to figure your BMR so you know how many calories to consume" or "check with your endocrinologist/primary care dr./etc".
After seeing 4 endocrinologists, a bariatric surgeon, and multiple nutritionists over the last 10 years or so, no reason has been given for my low BMR, aside from a low functioning thyroid. I'm on a liquid thyroid med and I switched recently, so I don't remember the name offhand. I was on Armour and then Synthroid (both much less expensive), but I wasn't metabolizing those (ie I was on 30 grains of Armour/day). The liquid has helped dramatically.0 -
I may be a little late to this convo and sorry if this was already said but there is a great quote about this situation:
Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, and small minds talk about people – Eleanor Roosevelt0 -
This is coming from a fat guy who is now at 260 from a start of over 320+.
They are fat people who should not be eating that!
Let's be honest, there is no defense for being fat. The people who say they are OK with being that way are lying to themselves.
I'm almost 100 lbs lighter than you. Should I then have the divine to right to say to you that you are obese and need to lose weight and you have no defense for being 260, forget the fact that you were once 320+??? how would YOU like it if someone said that to you????
those 60lbs you sweated and worked so hard to lose become totally irrelevant if that person thought like you.
P.S..I take it all back if you are a 7 foot centre playing in the NBA0 -
I pose this question: why is it more acceptable to criticize people who smoke but not people who overeat?
Because people can die from second hand smoke. I never heard of anyone dying because I was fat.
Edited to correct spelling.
No but as a nurse who has to pull and tug on overweight people who cannot/will not move themselves when they need medical care, I CAN be injured. That in itself irritates me to no end.0 -
This post got several likes and 'haha's. Not one person said anything in defence of this couple. I purposely didn't comment as I didn't want to start a big argument!
Maybe others didn't post for this same reason. I dunno.. However, if this person,, you're "friend" has such strong feelings to post the picture and make fun.....does he/she really consider you a friend or does he feel the same way toward all "fatties"..........
it's an issue. We all struggle with something. Some struggles are more visible - smokers who want to quit, overweight folks who want to lose, etc. None of us are free from issues - we need to surround ourselves with those who support us in our efforts to improve ourselves in whatever our challenges are -- and keep those that don't far enough away to not cause us harm or pain.
It was a very hurtful post -- and as you said, who knows why they had the pizzas..........football party for several friends.....family.........church event............let him throw the first stone..........
just my opinion. I'm not in the world to inflict pain on anyone.0 -
Particularly when many of us who gained weight medically do so rather quickly... there's no getting used to it, just a desperation to get back!
Correct. I gained weight from overeating which was due to having a 750 cal BMR, which I found out about only recently! There are people on this site ("experts") who say that you MUST eat 1500 or 2000 or x number of calories/day. These are the same "experts" who say that it's just as easy and/or inexpensive to cook and pack a lunch.
I may or may not be an isolated case, but my point is that none of you know the particular situation of any overweight/obese person. Even though you think you may be able to blame it on x, y, or z, you need to understand the reality of the world we live in which is that:
1. health care is expensive, and increasing in cost due to obesity (cyclical)
2. healthy eating is oftentimes inconvenient and possibly more expensive (at least perceived this way)
3. people do not take personal responsibility for themselves
4. the government subsidizes the wrong food groups (corn, dairy) and
5. as much as you think you're an expert on good health, weight loss, etc., educate those around you instead of being so judgmental.
You have to keep in mind that there's no need to pejorative to people who talk about certain amounts of calories. You, and me, I guess, are in a minority... that doesn't make science wrong, or those people wrong.
Anyway, why is your BMR so low? That seems more pituitary than thyroid... and what thyroid meds are you on?
What IS wrong is presenting oneself as an expert and making blanket statements (which I've seen often in my 18 months on this site) like "no one should be eating under 1800 calories/day". This simply is not true and could cause people to be totally mislead. What should be said is, "you need to figure your BMR so you know how many calories to consume" or "check with your endocrinologist/primary care dr./etc".
After seeing 4 endocrinologists, a bariatric surgeon, and multiple nutritionists over the last 10 years or so, no reason has been given for my low BMR, aside from a low functioning thyroid. I'm on a liquid thyroid med and I switched recently, so I don't remember the name offhand. I was on Armour and then Synthroid (both much less expensive), but I wasn't metabolizing those (ie I was on 30 grains of Armour/day). The liquid has helped dramatically.
What's the name of your liquid thyroid med? I've never heard of that! Did anyone ever check your pituitary gland or adrenal glands? A low functioning thyroid generally doesn't make a BMR much lower than one or two hundred calories (and I functioned with no meds with no thyroid for a brief period of time, and the weight gain came from the excess cortisol). I've learned to be quite my own advocate with endos, and it's VERY hard to find a good one, so I'm wondering if either of those has come up, since adrenal stuff is kind of a "It's either Cushings or gtfo."
I am surprised that you've never seen the thousands of people saying, "Figure out your BMR and TDEE to figure out how to lose weight sustianabily" or responding to those saying, "I can't lose weight even though I'm doing everything right" with "Go get your thyroid checked."0 -
And then someone started talking about thin privilege and pulled up tumblr...0
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I really struggle with these comments. I understand what the OP was trying to say. I agree 100% that it seems like weight discrimination is still blatantly accepted. I also understand 100% why the OP did not speak up in a public forum. Ultimately, as usual, the topic boiled back down to "people chose to be fat" and (at least in the US) "you being fat costs me money."
I understand why people erroneously think being fat is completely a choice but those folks who say that it's not hereditary, that you have complete control...well they aren't the ones who have had any kind of "real" weight issues. My dysfunction with food and weight comes from both of my parents. My family members almost all struggle with weight. It is hard. It is a struggle and I don't believe that anyone "chooses" to be obese. Maybe they don't know how to empower themselves, maybe they use food to protect themselves... I do not agree with or understand all of the hate for body acceptance. I think we all need to love ourselves in whatever vessel we are currently in. That doesn't mean that we can't or shouldn't try to improve, but belittling and mocking is never ok.
I guess I think that, generally speaking, our society is afraid of people who aren't ashamed for being fat. That's my own opinion. I spent five years "accepting" myself. I gained quite a bit of weight but I learned a lot of important lessons, too. I knew I had to learn to love myself "as is" before I could ever successfully lose weight. And it's STILL hard. I know that it will be a lifelong battle for me. I will always struggle with food.. but that does not make me weak or a failure or less of a person. In MY interpretation, that is what the size acceptance is about. Accepting EVERYONE regardless of their size...fat, thin, medium, short, tall, etc. Easier said than done, I know.
Just my $.02.0 -
Not a friend.0
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while i agree that body shamming is wrong but to say its not a choice is bull. A person can blame their parents so much, cause at some point we as people start making choices for ourselves. As we get older it is a choice. Personally I see it as just excuses. I am making the change and I believe I am loving my body more by trying to change and trust me I know its hard. I dont know how many times I fell but by god im still trying and I will lose the weight.I really struggle with these comments. I understand what the OP was trying to say. I agree 100% that it seems like weight discrimination is still blatantly accepted. I also understand 100% why the OP did not speak up in a public forum. Ultimately, as usual, the topic boiled back down to "people chose to be fat" and (at least in the US) "you being fat costs me money."
I understand why people erroneously think being fat is completely a choice but those folks who say that it's not hereditary, that you have complete control...well they aren't the ones who have had any kind of "real" weight issues. My dysfunction with food and weight comes from both of my parents. My family members almost all struggle with weight. It is hard. It is a struggle and I don't believe that anyone "chooses" to be obese. Maybe they don't know how to empower themselves, maybe they use food to protect themselves... I do not agree with or understand all of the hate for body acceptance. I think we all need to love ourselves in whatever vessel we are currently in. That doesn't mean that we can't or shouldn't try to improve, but belittling and mocking is never ok.
I guess I think that, generally speaking, our society is afraid of people who aren't ashamed for being fat. That's my own opinion. I spent five years "accepting" myself. I gained quite a bit of weight but I learned a lot of important lessons, too. I knew I had to learn to love myself "as is" before I could ever successfully lose weight. And it's STILL hard. I know that it will be a lifelong battle for me. I will always struggle with food.. but that does not make me weak or a failure or less of a person. In MY interpretation, that is what the size acceptance is about. Accepting EVERYONE regardless of their size...fat, thin, medium, short, tall, etc. Easier said than done, I know.
Just my $.02.0 -
wow... yeah i know how you feel i was told once by a guy friend over the net that there would never be any love for me and that i shouldnt wear the kind of clothes i used to because it made him sick... thats partially why i switched to wearing baggy jeans and xxl hoodies all the time.. people that talk like that are obnoxious rude and callous and may have more issues then the couple he so ruthlessly taunted ever will have! bullies come in all shapes and sizes and sometimes they can be harder then normal to ignore my humble opinion as a goth girl with 5 tattoos three of witch are visible is that they should take a long hard look at themselves and realize that for every cold hearted taunt said about someone else there will always be one said about them karma just like gravity is a heartless bi!@h! rant over.. :blushing:0
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If obesity were only caused by some unpreventable medical condition, so that only a small number of people were actually obese and none (or even most) of them could help it, then it wouldn't be socially acceptable.
If smoking caused smokers to break out all over their body in huge pus-bubbling boils, it's a pretty safe bet that people would be making fun of them and it would probably be socially acceptable too.0 -
Our bodies remain the one area of life most of us have the greatest control.
And when we get fat, people laugh at us for our failure.
Why? They fear getting fat.
My own son and his evil friends talked a 270+ pound me into showing them a front flip at the pool.
"Sure" I said.
To make a long story short, I ended up a YouTube star: FAT GUY DIVE FAIL
Our whole community had a nice laugh at my expense.
I laughed with them, but it hurt me inside. And it also motivated me to action.
People laughing and making fun of me was just reality.
That's what people do.
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I may be a little late to this convo and sorry if this was already said but there is a great quote about this situation:
Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, and small minds talk about people – Eleanor Roosevelt
LOVE this quotation.0 -
If your friend actually made a funny comment about the fat couple i'd probably laugh. i laugh at all kinds of jokes making fun of people for lots of different reasons. a show like Tosh.0 is a good example.
but i would never make fun of them in person.0 -
We all have our own shortcomings and faults. We can laugh about it, cry about it, or in many cases change it.My opinion is, "Eh. Let them laugh."
Who cares if they think it's funny?
I see no reason to respect people who cry about it. People who can't laugh at themselves are annoying ego monsters who take life, and themselves, way too seriously.0 -
Overweight Americans can beat couch potato-itis
By: J. Justin Wilson
Newspaper: Richmond Times-Dispatch
America is a country of contradictions. And there’s no bigger (ahem) contradiction than one from the recently ended Olympics: We led the world in Olympic medals won while leading all other countries in total overweight and obese population.
According to new Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) figures, Mississippi is once again the fattest state in the nation with nearly 35 percent of its residents obese. And once again Colorado, with an obesity rate below 21 percent, is the slimmest state. (Virginia tied with Tennessee for 15th in the rankings, with 29.2 percent.)
And just as in years past, the Trust for America’s Health is highlighting these figures. It has, however, chosen to promote a flawed policy plan as the solution. The plan puts too much emphasis on government restrictions on consumer choice that will not reduce obesity, and not nearly enough emphasis on restoring personal responsibility, which is the only proven strategy for people to lose weight.
The plan claims that “people cannot truly exercise ‘personal choice’ ” when it comes to food. As anyone who has ever walked through the produce section of the grocery store knows, that’s simply not true. If people aren’t eating enough fruits and vegetables, it’s because they don’t want to.
Just like horses and water, you can lead a person to kale but you can’t make her eat it. And because you can’t make that person eat kale without the police power of government, the plan calls for additional regulations like restaurant location prohibitions and sin taxes on soda and other sweet drinks.
To take just one example, these sin taxes are poor tools to fight obesity, because they target only certain (“bad”) beverages, it’s easy to get the same amount of calories from untaxed items. Tax-exempt fruit juice, for example, often has as many calories per ounce as soda. It may be true that juice may have more vitamins — but this is supposedly about obesity, not scurvy.
Researchers from Duke-National University of Singapore found that even a steep 40 percent tax on soda will cut only about 12 calories per day from our diets. (That is the same effect as walking for a few minutes.) And the researchers found that the lowest fourth of households in income didn’t change their calorie consumption in response to a tax of that size.
People, whether Coloradans or Mississippians, are “exposed” to the same foods. And soda is soda whether you buy it in Denver or Jackson. There’s no difference there. So how did we pull off this disparity in obesity rates?
There are differences between fat states and slim states in physical activity. While Mississippians, 33 percent of whom said they engaged in no physical activity at all, sweltering in the Southern heat, might pass up opportunities to move their bodies, Coloradans don’t. That more than 80 percent of Coloradans get some physical activity makes sense when you consider the bounteous opportunities for outdoor sports in the state, from long skiing seasons to hiking peaks.
And even if you’re not an Olympic-class athlete, there seem to be benefits to living in places that promote fitness. It’s no surprise then that a 2009 study from Indiana University-Purdue University of Indianapolis found that living near fitness areas, kickball diamonds, and volleyball courts is linked with lower weight in children. The researchers estimated that living near those amenities could reduce an overweight child’s weight by three to six pounds.
You don’t have to jog or cycle, but engaging in some fun activity that gets you moving can promote both health and happiness. It can even make room for a hamburger, or that famous Southern cooking.0 -
Interesting article. What strikes me is that the regulations the author talks about are still about trying to manipulate personal choice, not the context in which we make our personal choices. What's the point of taxing soda if you're subsidizing corn producers? I work with families who are homeless and working poor - people who live on the razor's edge of having a balanced budget. Of course I want to support their healthy eating, but if it were about simple financial decisions, they'd already be rocking lentils and frozen vegetables every day. No, they do not feel empowered to eat well. Not only are there concrete barriers to improving their nutrition, there is the force of an entire culture that has strong messages about comforting or satisfying yourself with food. And they need comfort and satisfaction in their lives rather badly.
Support a culture that encourages other forms of wellbeing. Imagine if your local Y or rec centre was subsidized the way corn is, or if it provided subsidized child care while Mom took a 45-minute me break (worried about the public expense? wait, weren't you just complaining about how fat people make your health care expensive?). Don't waste time criticizing people for not being strong enough to swim against the tide. Make a big list of anyone and anything that has ever helped you in your motivation and your success, count your blessings, and try to share them in a positive way.0 -
I pose this question: why is it more acceptable to criticize people who smoke but not people who overeat?
Because people can die from second hand smoke. I never heard of anyone dying because I was fat.
Edited to correct spelling.
Well, technically, one could say that the inflated health care costs due to obesity could cause someone to die due to them not being able to afford insurance.
technically.
Actually, it's those people who aren't wearing seat belts or who are diving into shallow water who are really going to drive up your healthcare costs. Just sayin'.
No, it is ACTUALLY the people with these 5 diseases: Hypertension, heart disease, diabetes, asthma, high blood pressure, that cause your health premiums to go up. 40 percent of emergency treatments come from people with those 5 conditions, which costs over 50% of the costs to health care. At least 4 out of the 5 are directly caused by being overweight. There is a reason insurance companies and health care providers have wellness plans and special incentives for people to stay in healthy weight ranges. Read up on the NHS and the costs that are skyrocketing because of their obesity epidemic.0 -
Interesting article. What strikes me is that the regulations the author talks about are still about trying to manipulate personal choice, not the context in which we make our personal choices. What's the point of taxing soda if you're subsidizing corn producers? I work with families who are homeless and working poor - people who live on the razor's edge of having a balanced budget. Of course I want to support their healthy eating, but if it were about simple financial decisions, they'd already be rocking lentils and frozen vegetables every day. No, they do not feel empowered to eat well. Not only are there concrete barriers to improving their nutrition, there is the force of an entire culture that has strong messages about comforting or satisfying yourself with food. And they need comfort and satisfaction in their lives rather badly.
Support a culture that encourages other forms of wellbeing. Imagine if your local Y or rec centre was subsidized the way corn is, or if it provided subsidized child care while Mom took a 45-minute me break (worried about the public expense? wait, weren't you just complaining about how fat people make your health care expensive?). Don't waste time criticizing people for not being strong enough to swim against the tide. Make a big list of anyone and anything that has ever helped you in your motivation and your success, count your blessings, and try to share them in a positive way.
hmmm..I'll assume that second paragraph isn't towards me as I haven't criticized any one and do so much volunteer work that it covers all of you that do not. I share my blessings.0 -
How do you define "harm"? Second hand smoke takes years to cause harm, plus it has to be repetitive. There are many types of harms that aren't that direct that obesity causesin a society.
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I beg to differ.....second hand smoke can cause problems for me immediately. I have asthma and smoke is a trigger. It can send me into an asthma attack in seconds. Second hand "fat" doesn't affect me at all. You never know the struggle that someone is going through just by looking at them. Those people carrying the pizzas might have a better diet than you and be in the process of losing weight - heck, the pizzas might not even be for them. Judging someone based solely on appearance isn't justified but it is human nature.0 -
The point I was trying to make, and is missed, is that it IS socially acceptable to shame people openly for smoking in public, but not for people overeating in public....in fact, THAT is glamorized on TV(Man v Food). I think logically, based on the socialtal costs for both, makes no logical sense.0
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Those of you who are supporting making fun of fat people -- you make it more difficult for some fat people to be out and about.Instead of walking, or going to the gym, some people will stay home because they don't want to be made fun of. Some of those people will soothe their emotions with food.
Making fun of people and making them feel bad doesn't effect the kind of change you want, if what you're really interested in is people being thinner.
It does, however, say a lot of not-very-nice things about your own personality to make fun of people in a cruel way.0 -
The point I was trying to make, and is missed, is that it IS socially acceptable to shame people openly for smoking in public, but not for people overeating in public....in fact, THAT is glamorized on TV(Man v Food). I think logically, based on the socialtal costs for both, makes no logical sense.
Asking someone not to smoke so I don't have a sore throat all day is SHAMING? I'd say it's taking care of my health.0 -
No, second hand smoke does not take years to cause harm. My father smoked when I was a child and by the time I was in grade school, I failed a breathing test that was given to all of the kids in my class They asked me if my parents smoked, I said yes, they said that is why.. I told my parents and dad said he wasn't going to quit. Oh well. He died 2 years ago from COPD and no longer smokes.I pose this question: why is it more acceptable to criticize people who smoke but not people who overeat?
Uh. Second hand smoke. Some stranger's choice to eat pizza doesn't harm you.
How do you define "harm"? Second hand smoke takes years to cause harm, plus it has to be repetitive. There are many types of harms that aren't that direct that obesity causesin a society.0
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