An Argument Against Fast Food
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To point out, the phrase "as so many people do" - doesn't mean everyone.
So you have a grasp on the English language! Congratulations. Want a medal? He was the one who criticized my generalization first, so I criticized his playfully in return. Obviously generalizations don't apply to every single member of the human race.
I think, maybe, you need to take a break and calm down. Really. Why are you attacking me? This is a discussion. If you can't handle opposition, then the forums aren't for you.
Hahaha. I'm not attacking you, dear, I'm calling you out on trolling, which is exactly what you are doing. If you can't 'handle' me doing that then you're the one who needs a break! ;D
WHOA WHOA WHOA. How am I trolling? Do you even know what a troll is? I'm having a discussion. Please stop with the accusations .
you're actually not having a discussion about the topic... you're having a discussion about the english language... and, well, trolling.
Wrong. I pointed out that Suns was not saying everyone in regards to his argument. She was upset because she inferred that he was saying "everyone" and I pointed out that, that was not the case.
Yes, and you know what that's called? Arguing semantics. Nit-picking over details that don't actually matter. Not related to the major topic of discussion at hand. Hey-o!0 -
Couldn't one argue that the increased TEF from having to process nutritionally sparse foods would have a positive impact on weightloss?
That was my reaction to the wasted energy idea.
Not sure whether I buy that that wasted energy is at all significant.
Anecdotally, I've been eating like complete rubbish lately (partially inspired by all these fast food threads of late), and I just absolutely slammed my workout last night. Go figure.
I has had its toll though... My hunger levels are all messed up (had to force myself to eat dinner last night), and the site of a Jack in the Box poster earlier made me feel nauseated. I need to cool it just a wee bit.0 -
Today one of our major supermarkets here in the UK was found to be selling own brand beefburgers which appears to contain up to 39% horse meat. I'd rather not eat that hence my need to buy, prepare and cook 'proper' foods, they don't have to be organic just good honest fresh foods....
WOW, I'd like to try that one! Heard it taste like chicken. Nonetheless, great article.
I'd happily buy those burgers assuming everything else was ok with them.
Horse tastes great! very similar to beef in flavour, though a little more gamey. Possibly Venison like.. been too long since I've had venison to remember0 -
Couldn't one argue that the increased TEF from having to process nutritionally sparse foods would have a positive impact on weightloss?
That was my reaction to the wasted energy idea.
Not sure whether I buy that that wasted energy is at all significant.
Anecdotally, I've been eating like complete rubbish lately (partially inspired by all these fast food threads of late), and I just absolutely slammed my workout last night. Go figure.
I has had its toll though... My hunger levels are all messed up (had to force myself to eat dinner last night), and the site of a Jack in the Box poster earlier made me feel nauseated. I need to cool it just a wee bit.
did you work out before or after forcing down dinner?0 -
End Thread. I'm out of here. Believe what you want to believe. But if you make weight loss harder than it has to be then you only have yourself to blame for your failure.
this post wasn't primarily about weight loss for the record. it's about your body working at an optimal level. processed foods don't allow you to do that, though you CAN still lose weight while eating them.
CR: The argument that fast food, even in moderation, damages elite performance, is an interesting one and one that perhaps deserves further discussion (though I think that discussion has already been had ad nauseum), but it is also a largely irrelevant one to many MFP members who are looking to lose weight and simply be healthier. Like it or not they will look up to people who are fit and healthy and ask their opinions as to what to do. In my opinion, when you make things harder for them than necessary (by, for example, advocating the complete elimination of fast food and other "processed" foods, whatever that word may actually mean to you), then you are helping them fail. The method that should be advocated for anyone looking to lose weight and get healthier is the one that they can easily follow and MAINTAIN FOR LIFE. Does that make sense?0 -
End Thread. I'm out of here. Believe what you want to believe. But if you make weight loss harder than it has to be then you only have yourself to blame for your failure.
this post wasn't primarily about weight loss for the record. it's about your body working at an optimal level. processed foods don't allow you to do that, though you CAN still lose weight while eating them.
CR: The argument that fast food, even in moderation, damages elite performance, is an interesting one and one that perhaps deserves further discussion (though I think that discussion has already been had ad nauseum), but it is also a largely irrelevant one to many MFP members who are looking to lose weight and simply be healthier. Like it or not they will look up to people who are fit and healthy and ask their opinions as to what to do. In my opinion, when you make things harder for them than necessary (by, for example, advocating the complete elimination of fast food and other "processed" foods, whatever that word may actually mean to you), then you are helping them fail. The method that should be advocated for anyone looking to lose weight and get healthier is the one that they can easily follow and MAINTAIN FOR LIFE. Does that make sense?
can you quote back to me the last paragraph of my initial post please?0 -
Couldn't one argue that the increased TEF from having to process nutritionally sparse foods would have a positive impact on weightloss?
That was my reaction to the wasted energy idea.
Not sure whether I buy that that wasted energy is at all significant.
Anecdotally, I've been eating like complete rubbish lately (partially inspired by all these fast food threads of late), and I just absolutely slammed my workout last night. Go figure.
I has had its toll though... My hunger levels are all messed up (had to force myself to eat dinner last night), and the site of a Jack in the Box poster earlier made me feel nauseated. I need to cool it just a wee bit.
did you work out before or after forcing down dinner?
before0 -
End Thread. I'm out of here. Believe what you want to believe. But if you make weight loss harder than it has to be then you only have yourself to blame for your failure.
this post wasn't primarily about weight loss for the record. it's about your body working at an optimal level. processed foods don't allow you to do that, though you CAN still lose weight while eating them.
CR: The argument that fast food, even in moderation, damages elite performance, is an interesting one and one that perhaps deserves further discussion (though I think that discussion has already been had ad nauseum), but it is also a largely irrelevant one to many MFP members who are looking to lose weight and simply be healthier. Like it or not they will look up to people who are fit and healthy and ask their opinions as to what to do. In my opinion, when you make things harder for them than necessary (by, for example, advocating the complete elimination of fast food and other "processed" foods, whatever that word may actually mean to you), then you are helping them fail. The method that should be advocated for anyone looking to lose weight and get healthier is the one that they can easily follow and MAINTAIN FOR LIFE. Does that make sense?
can you quote back to me the last paragraph of my initial post please?
^^^0 -
Before you flame without reading the post, please keep in mind that while I have not listed the sources, Brendan Brazier, top triathlete and nutritional specialist lists ALL his sources in his book (Thrive: The Vegan Nutrition Guide to Optimal Performance in Sports and Life). It would take pages to list them all here.
I'm not saying any diet is better than another, just that I found this quite interesting to read, and thought others might too.A calorie is defined as a measure of food energy. It might seem logical, then, to assume that the more calories consumed, the more energy our body is supplied with. Of course, we know this is not thel case, otherwise people with the highest energy would be those who eat at fast food restaurants. By simply more calories, we are not guaranteed more energy. Many conventional nutrition books would have us believe that if we expend a certain amount of energy, it can be quantified and replaced. They suggest that by simply adhering to calorie counts, with no consideration of other factors, we can accurately gauge the amount of food we need to consume to maintain low body weight and high energy. But it doesn't work that way.
Unfortunately, most foods in the average North American's diet require almost as much energy to assimilate as they contain, because while they are high in calories, they are low in nutrients. The nutritional value of food stated on the food packaging label refers to what is in the food - not what the body actually gets from it. By consuming more easily assimilated foods, you can conserve a large amount of energy, therefore reducing stress in the body, and helping with recovery. There are two main reasons for this. First, foods in their natural, nutrient-dense state can be digested and assimilated with less energy expenditure than processed, refined foods. Second, when more nutrient-rich foods are present in the diet, the body does not have to eat as much as if it were fed less nutrient-rich foods. Today, I consume 30 percent fewer calories than I did just two years ago, yet I have more energy - by means of conservation, rather than consumption.
Essentially the point is this: because fast food is not nutritionally dense, your body has to work harder to get fewer nutrients, which is a WASTE of energy. Energy that could otherwise be used on anything from recovery - which would allow you to train harder and more often - to mental energy, to just feeling better in your day to day life. The more steam lined your system, and the less it has to work to digest the food you introduce, the better YOU will operate. The more weight you'll lose. The better you will feel.
But hey, I'm not here to say you HAVE to do it. I'm not even saying you should! If you'd rather eat fast food because you really enjoy it, then I would never advocate giving it up! But if your goals are to perform better and to feel better, not just lose weight, it may be worth considering.
Have at it. And let's try and keep it civil, K?
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End Thread. I'm out of here. Believe what you want to believe. But if you make weight loss harder than it has to be then you only have yourself to blame for your failure.
this post wasn't primarily about weight loss for the record. it's about your body working at an optimal level. processed foods don't allow you to do that, though you CAN still lose weight while eating them.
CR: The argument that fast food, even in moderation, damages elite performance, is an interesting one and one that perhaps deserves further discussion (though I think that discussion has already been had ad nauseum), but it is also a largely irrelevant one to many MFP members who are looking to lose weight and simply be healthier. Like it or not they will look up to people who are fit and healthy and ask their opinions as to what to do. In my opinion, when you make things harder for them than necessary (by, for example, advocating the complete elimination of fast food and other "processed" foods, whatever that word may actually mean to you), then you are helping them fail. The method that should be advocated for anyone looking to lose weight and get healthier is the one that they can easily follow and MAINTAIN FOR LIFE. Does that make sense?
The notion that fit and healthy people "help" non-fit people fail by suggesting clean eating is ridiculous. No one is responsible for anyone's failure but YOU, meaning everyone as an individual. If you ask for advice and don't take it, that's on you too! NOWHERE in this post said that fast food should NEVER be eaten. YOU are the one who failed to notice that!0 -
End Thread. I'm out of here. Believe what you want to believe. But if you make weight loss harder than it has to be then you only have yourself to blame for your failure.
this post wasn't primarily about weight loss for the record. it's about your body working at an optimal level. processed foods don't allow you to do that, though you CAN still lose weight while eating them.
CR: The argument that fast food, even in moderation, damages elite performance, is an interesting one and one that perhaps deserves further discussion (though I think that discussion has already been had ad nauseum), but it is also a largely irrelevant one to many MFP members who are looking to lose weight and simply be healthier. Like it or not they will look up to people who are fit and healthy and ask their opinions as to what to do. In my opinion, when you make things harder for them than necessary (by, for example, advocating the complete elimination of fast food and other "processed" foods, whatever that word may actually mean to you), then you are helping them fail. The method that should be advocated for anyone looking to lose weight and get healthier is the one that they can easily follow and MAINTAIN FOR LIFE. Does that make sense?
can you quote back to me the last paragraph of my initial post please?
You use the word "better" not "optimal". Which is it, better or optimal?0 -
In all reality, tv dinners and fast food are not part of a "balanced" diet. It would be best to not have such food go into the body. Fact is, though, it is convenient, and we live in a society of convenience. But to say it is part of a balanced diet is dishonest at the root. Even the salads at McD's has a ton of chemicals on it. Hell, Belaruse outlawed McD's because of all the chemicals that are in its food. Israel made them resource their food in order to be allowed into their country. That should at least be interesting to people.0
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No. We are fat because we ate at a caloric surplus. The food (regardless of type) didn't just jump in our mouths and crawl down our throats.
We overate, etc. A lot of people also have a tendency to do the stress/bored/emotional eating. Some people have issues recognizing portion control, etc. And some people just didn't educate themselves to realize that they can't eat 3000 calories and be 150 lbs with no exercise. The point is - it's "OUR" fault..not the food industry, the food itself, or the people in our lives. There is a time we should start taking accountability for our own actions.
ETA: Not everyone using MFP is trying to lose weight. That's why it is My FITNESS Pal.
I don't blame fast food for my being overweight. That's an infantile notion. The movie Supersize Me just made me want to eat french fries. But the knee-jerk reaction to DEFEND fast food in the wake of articles explaining why it has little to no nutritional benefit begs the question, why are we so desperate to keep it? Are we really that obsessed with food that we can't let go of the Crunchwrap Supremes and the Big Macs without throwing a temper tantrum at the people criticizing them?
No one is throwing a temper tantrum and this is certainly not a knee jerk reaction. If you want to cut out all fast food then please be my guest. Standing on a soap box claiming that any fast food consumption is bad for you seems a bit much though. Go back and read the OP again, please.
Okay, let me put it to you this way. If you had to choose where to sleep for the night, would you rather sleep on a Tempur-Pedic mattress, or a sleeping bag? Technically, you get just as rested either way. Technically, a few nights a week on a sleeping bag will have little to no negative affects on you or your lifestyle, assuming you don't have pre-existing conditions such as arthritis. But given the choice, wouldn't you choose the mattress? Perhaps a pillow-top rather than the top of the line model, but still-- when it comes to what you put in your body on a daily basis (and this is excluding occasional cheat meals), why would you purposefully choose something processed, low-nutrient and high-fat, that will only make you feel crappy a few hours later?
I like to camp, and when I do I prefer the sleeping bag, the mattress just feels like cheating. Sometimes it's freeing to have nothing between you and your surrounding than a sleeping bag.0 -
End Thread. I'm out of here. Believe what you want to believe. But if you make weight loss harder than it has to be then you only have yourself to blame for your failure.
this post wasn't primarily about weight loss for the record. it's about your body working at an optimal level. processed foods don't allow you to do that, though you CAN still lose weight while eating them.
The contexts for how desirable "optimal" is for anyone who isn't an elite athlete are more varied than you seem to think they are. I'm not sure why I should care about what elite athletes do, or how they feel for that matter. Lord knows I don't train like one. Nor would I want to put my body through that. Depending on the sport, it certainly isn't healthy. Those are people who look at the brink of what their physical forms are capable of and frequently cross that boundary.
All that even assumes I accept the initial information as valid.
I question that use of this information for 99% of the population, apart from academic interest. If, as you say, that moderation is fine for weight loss, what audience do you think you're talking to here? I think you know exactly who you're talking to and post this stuff anyway. Which is why I question your motives.
But please, continue to call this trolling.0 -
In all reality, tv dinners and fast food are not part of a "balanced" diet. It would be best to not have such food go into the body. Fact is, though, it is convenient, and we live in a society of convenience. But to say it is part of a balanced diet is dishonest at the root. Even the salads at McD's has a ton of chemicals on it. Hell, Belaruse outlawed McD's because of all the chemicals that are in its food. Israel made them resource their food in order to be allowed into their country. That should at least be interesting to people.
It's not that I don't believe you, but can you cite sources for that? I'd like to read them. Thanks.0 -
No. We are fat because we ate at a caloric surplus. The food (regardless of type) didn't just jump in our mouths and crawl down our throats.
We overate, etc. A lot of people also have a tendency to do the stress/bored/emotional eating. Some people have issues recognizing portion control, etc. And some people just didn't educate themselves to realize that they can't eat 3000 calories and be 150 lbs with no exercise. The point is - it's "OUR" fault..not the food industry, the food itself, or the people in our lives. There is a time we should start taking accountability for our own actions.
ETA: Not everyone using MFP is trying to lose weight. That's why it is My FITNESS Pal.
I don't blame fast food for my being overweight. That's an infantile notion. The movie Supersize Me just made me want to eat french fries. But the knee-jerk reaction to DEFEND fast food in the wake of articles explaining why it has little to no nutritional benefit begs the question, why are we so desperate to keep it? Are we really that obsessed with food that we can't let go of the Crunchwrap Supremes and the Big Macs without throwing a temper tantrum at the people criticizing them?
No one is throwing a temper tantrum and this is certainly not a knee jerk reaction. If you want to cut out all fast food then please be my guest. Standing on a soap box claiming that any fast food consumption is bad for you seems a bit much though. Go back and read the OP again, please.
Okay, let me put it to you this way. If you had to choose where to sleep for the night, would you rather sleep on a Tempur-Pedic mattress, or a sleeping bag? Technically, you get just as rested either way. Technically, a few nights a week on a sleeping bag will have little to no negative affects on you or your lifestyle, assuming you don't have pre-existing conditions such as arthritis. But given the choice, wouldn't you choose the mattress? Perhaps a pillow-top rather than the top of the line model, but still-- when it comes to what you put in your body on a daily basis (and this is excluding occasional cheat meals), why would you purposefully choose something processed, low-nutrient and high-fat, that will only make you feel crappy a few hours later?
I like to camp, and when I do I prefer the sleeping bag, the mattress just feels like cheating. Sometimes it's freeing to have nothing between you and your surrounding than a sleeping bag.
I like sleeping on the floor. But maybe it is an Asian thing *shrugs*0 -
I don't know why you're even posting this. No one is on the other side of this issue- fast food isn't good for you. It's not exactly breaking news.
People eat fast food because it's cheap, easy, and tasty. Not because they're under the impression it's healthy.0 -
can you quote back to me the last paragraph of my initial post please?
You use the word "better" not "optimal". Which is it, better or optimal?
fine, I'll do it:But hey, I'm not here to say you HAVE to do it. I'm not even saying you should! If you'd rather eat fast food because you really enjoy it, then I would never advocate giving it up! But if your goals are to perform better and to feel better, not just lose weight, it may be worth considering.
tell me where i'm saying anyone must do anything in order to get results.0 -
I don't know why you're even posting this. No one is on the other side of this issue- fast food isn't good for you. It's not exactly breaking news.
read the thread. MANY people are on the other side of the issue actually.0 -
No. We are fat because we ate at a caloric surplus. The food (regardless of type) didn't just jump in our mouths and crawl down our throats.
We overate, etc. A lot of people also have a tendency to do the stress/bored/emotional eating. Some people have issues recognizing portion control, etc. And some people just didn't educate themselves to realize that they can't eat 3000 calories and be 150 lbs with no exercise. The point is - it's "OUR" fault..not the food industry, the food itself, or the people in our lives. There is a time we should start taking accountability for our own actions.
ETA: Not everyone using MFP is trying to lose weight. That's why it is My FITNESS Pal.
I don't blame fast food for my being overweight. That's an infantile notion. The movie Supersize Me just made me want to eat french fries. But the knee-jerk reaction to DEFEND fast food in the wake of articles explaining why it has little to no nutritional benefit begs the question, why are we so desperate to keep it? Are we really that obsessed with food that we can't let go of the Crunchwrap Supremes and the Big Macs without throwing a temper tantrum at the people criticizing them?
No one is throwing a temper tantrum and this is certainly not a knee jerk reaction. If you want to cut out all fast food then please be my guest. Standing on a soap box claiming that any fast food consumption is bad for you seems a bit much though. Go back and read the OP again, please.
Okay, let me put it to you this way. If you had to choose where to sleep for the night, would you rather sleep on a Tempur-Pedic mattress, or a sleeping bag? Technically, you get just as rested either way. Technically, a few nights a week on a sleeping bag will have little to no negative affects on you or your lifestyle, assuming you don't have pre-existing conditions such as arthritis. But given the choice, wouldn't you choose the mattress? Perhaps a pillow-top rather than the top of the line model, but still-- when it comes to what you put in your body on a daily basis (and this is excluding occasional cheat meals), why would you purposefully choose something processed, low-nutrient and high-fat, that will only make you feel crappy a few hours later?
I like to camp, and when I do I prefer the sleeping bag, the mattress just feels like cheating. Sometimes it's freeing to have nothing between you and your surrounding than a sleeping bag.
Yes, dear, that is my point. Once in a while (i.e., camping trips), it's nice to sleep on a different surface. Just like it's nice to eat fast food every once in a while. However, on a day-to-day basis would you still choose the sleeping bag?0
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