An Argument Against Fast Food

samanthawarren

No one has ever suggested that a significant portion of your diet should be comprised of fast food.

Strawman is made of straw.

even if it's a small portion of your diet, the body still wastes energy trying to assimilate it. it's still a net loss in energy compared to the nutrient-dense alternative.

so by that logic, your body uses more calories to process fast food, wouldn't that be a postive for people trying to lose weight? That would be like one of those anecdotal finding like the value of nuts in the nurses health study that nut companies like to cite...

Exactly what I was thinking.

I agree that fast food is not a good idea. I avoid it just because of the highly processed nature. I also limit it for my kids, but I was really confused by the quote that was used. Usually wasted energy means energy not used, not converted into fat or anything else. Like people who can eat anything and don't put on weight. It is because their bodies tend to "waste" the energy they are consuming.

FitnessPalWorks

Before you flame without reading the post, <snip>
Have at it. And let's try and keep it civil, K?

Dude, how many times are you going to start a thread about this?

I'm not on these boards much and even *I* am noticing how much you're doing it.

Give it a rest.

AlyssaJoJo

But what am I supposed to eat to feel better when I'm hung over?

Amen

CoachReddy

I admit I did not read all the posts so someone smarter than me probably has pointed this out. The premise that if you eat more calories you have more energy is wrong. You only burn the calories you need to based on bmr and energy exerted. Eat more calories then you burn and you gain weight not feel more energetic.

i wish i knew what this was referring to, but i think it's to the folks talking about the higher TEF?

CoachReddy

Before you flame without reading the post, <snip>
Have at it. And let's try and keep it civil, K?

Dude, how many times are you going to start a thread about this?

I'm not on these boards much and even *I* am noticing how much you're doing it.

Give it a rest.

this is the first thread i've started about it actually...

PikaKnight

Before you flame without reading the post, <snip>
Have at it. And let's try and keep it civil, K?

Dude, how many times are you going to start a thread about this?

I'm not on these boards much and even *I* am noticing how much you're doing it.

Give it a rest.

this is the first thread i've started about it actually...

Maybe she meant she's noticed you posting a lot about this topic....not starting threads.

FitnessPalWorks

Before you flame without reading the post, <snip>
Have at it. And let's try and keep it civil, K?

Dude, how many times are you going to start a thread about this?

I'm not on these boards much and even *I* am noticing how much you're doing it.

Give it a rest.

this is the first thread i've started about it actually...

Oh please. Didn't your last one get locked/deleted by the mods for selling your wares?
Sure did!

CoachReddy

Before you flame without reading the post, <snip>
Have at it. And let's try and keep it civil, K?

Dude, how many times are you going to start a thread about this?

I'm not on these boards much and even *I* am noticing how much you're doing it.

Give it a rest.

this is the first thread i've started about it actually...

Maybe she meant she's noticed you posting a lot about this topic....not starting threads.

true, which is honestly why this particular section of the book stuck out for me, because it would have been incredibly useful in that other ill-fated thread. i wish we could just have discussions in here, and that the people who didn't want to discuss it would... ya know... just not read the thread. i know that's a bizarre concept.

peckish_pomegranate

Oh man, the truth comes out!

CoachReddy

Before you flame without reading the post, <snip>
Have at it. And let's try and keep it civil, K?

Dude, how many times are you going to start a thread about this?

I'm not on these boards much and even *I* am noticing how much you're doing it.

Give it a rest.

this is the first thread i've started about it actually...

Oh please. Didn't your last one get locked/deleted by the mods for selling your wares?
Sure did!

wait WHAT??

that's not at ALL true. I've NEVER tried to sell anything on these forums.

Contrarian

Say! Any of you guys know how to Madison?

Codefox

Site name: My Fitness Pal
Current forum: Food & Nutrition

Wow, we're on a sub-forum dedicated to nutrition of a site dedicated to fitness and people continually trash people who talk about nutrition and its relation to fitness.

I can't begin to fathom why people are fat and unhealthy in this country...

AnvilHead

Finally, someone has the stones to come out and take the controversial stand that fast food might not be the healthiest choice. :yawn:

haha apparently according to this board it's quite controversial!

simply thought it was a different way of looking at it that I hadn't heard before - and makes absolutely no sense.

Fixed that for you. Google TEF (Thermic Effect of Food). Here, I'll help you out:

As it turns out, different nutrients have different individual TEF’s. Protein turns out to have the highest, to the tune of 20-30%. Meaning that of the total protein calories you eat, 20-30% is lost in processing. Carbohydrate stored as glycogen requires about 5-6% of the total calories. Carbohydrate converted to fat (which generally doesn’t happen in very significant amounts) uses up ~23% of the total calories as TEF. Most fats have a tiny TEF, maybe 2-3% (because they can be stored as fat in fat cells with minimal processing).

TEF doesn't suddenly spike or dip simply because the protein, fat or carbohydrates came from a certain type of food. Your body doesn't know what a Big Mac is - all it knows is there are macronutrients coming on board, and it processes them accordingly. It sounds to me like the source of that article has a vegan and/or orthorexic bias and is making up "facts" to further his agenda without regard to science.

BACONJOKESRSOFUNNY

Say! Any of you guys know how to Madison?

I'm studying the steps now!

CoachReddy

Finally, someone has the stones to come out and take the controversial stand that fast food might not be the healthiest choice. :yawn:

haha apparently according to this board it's quite controversial!

simply thought it was a different way of looking at it that I hadn't heard before - and makes absolutely no sense.

Fixed that for you. Google TEF (Thermic Effect of Food). Here, I'll help you out:

As it turns out, different nutrients have different individual TEF’s. Protein turns out to have the highest, to the tune of 20-30%. Meaning that of the total protein calories you eat, 20-30% is lost in processing. Carbohydrate stored as glycogen requires about 5-6% of the total calories. Carbohydrate converted to fat (which generally doesn’t happen in very significant amounts) uses up ~23% of the total calories as TEF. Most fats have a tiny TEF, maybe 2-3% (because they can be stored as fat in fat cells with minimal processing).

TEF doesn't suddenly spike or dip simply because the protein, fat or carbohydrates came from a certain type of food. Your body doesn't know what a Big Mac is - all it knows is there are macronutrients coming on board, and it processes them accordingly. It sounds to me like the source of that article has a vegan and/or orthorexic bias and is making up "facts" to further his agenda without regard to science.

you love your science. can you explain for me the TEF of all the micronutrients that make up macronutrients?

by the way, his book is back up by pages and pages of scientific sources. as I mentioned, I just didn't feel like listing pages of resources.

fIashforward

In fairness, we all know fast food is bad for us, but it tastes good

CoachReddy

Finally, someone has the stones to come out and take the controversial stand that fast food might not be the healthiest choice. :yawn:

haha apparently according to this board it's quite controversial!

simply thought it was a different way of looking at it that I hadn't heard before - and makes absolutely no sense.

Fixed that for you. Google TEF (Thermic Effect of Food). Here, I'll help you out:

As it turns out, different nutrients have different individual TEF’s. Protein turns out to have the highest, to the tune of 20-30%. Meaning that of the total protein calories you eat, 20-30% is lost in processing. Carbohydrate stored as glycogen requires about 5-6% of the total calories. Carbohydrate converted to fat (which generally doesn’t happen in very significant amounts) uses up ~23% of the total calories as TEF. Most fats have a tiny TEF, maybe 2-3% (because they can be stored as fat in fat cells with minimal processing).

TEF doesn't suddenly spike or dip simply because the protein, fat or carbohydrates came from a certain type of food. Your body doesn't know what a Big Mac is - all it knows is there are macronutrients coming on board, and it processes them accordingly. It sounds to me like the source of that article has a vegan and/or orthorexic bias and is making up "facts" to further his agenda without regard to science.

also, your quote doesn't support the bolded statement.

Sarauk2sf

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excluding-the-middle.html

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/hormonal-responses-to-a-fast-food-meal-compared-with-nutritionally-comparable-meals-of-different-composition-research-review.html

http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-nutrition/the-dirt-on-clean-eating/

http://www.shreddedknowledge.com/home/a-talk-with-the-doc-dr-layne-norton/

I will quote the last one again

"I find the whole idea of ‘clean eating’ pretentious. What exactly defines a food as ‘clean’? Do you spray windex on it? Rub soap on it? I find it a bit preposterous. I’ve been in debates with people promoting ‘clean eating’ but when I ask for a specific scientific definition of what makes a food ‘clean’ they are silent. I think the restrictive diets where you can only eat a half dozen or so foods are not only unhealthy because they don’t give you a diverse intake of nutrients but I believe they promote eating disorders and binging. I see people who ‘eat clean’ during most of the week and then binge on cheesecake, ice cream, and donuts because it’s a ‘cheat’ meal. Oh yea… that is way healthier than eating ‘unclean’ foods in moderation to a hit a specific macronutrient target. *rolleyes* Now that said, I do believe that many IIFYMers (I find it funny that something myself and others been promoting for years gets an acronym attached to it and is now this ‘new’ way of eating LOL) actually go too far in one direction. Most people who origionally promoted targeting macronutrient intakes instead of obsessing about food choices actually eat ‘clean’ foods 95% of the time, we just don’t agonize over having a homemade burrito with a low carb wrap or some reduced calorie ice cream. We see the value of a controlled intake in order to prevent uncontrolled binging. But I do see IIFYM followers who eat as much sugary, high fat foods as they can and wear it like a badge of honor. That is not the point. If you are following a macronutrient intake that is friendly for body composition you will be eating a lot of ‘clean’ foods by default because you will not be able to hit a protein, carb, fat, and fiber intake conducive to body composition improvement if all you eat are high sugar/fat foods. The point is it’s ok to have these foods in small amounts if you are still hitting your goal macronutrient intake."

Can you please explain to me this stereotype that anyone who says they eat clean only does so 3/4ths of the time, and spends the other 1/4th binging? Because it's not only ridiculously unfair to those who devote themselves to a truly healthy diet, but it throws a variable into the equation that doesn't even make sense. Also, who said anything about only eating a half dozen or so foods? If you follow the Abs Diet perhaps, but there are dozens and dozens of "clean", whole foods. There are hundreds of varieties of produce alone! People like simplistic diets revolving around limited foods because they're easy to follow and easy to log. Don't bash clean eating based on mitigating factors.

Sorry - but he is telling his experience. If you don't like it, you can email him.

BurtHuttz

Attempting to force people to prove your baseless assertions wrong just so they do your research for you is pretty scummy.

FitnessPalWorks

Oh please. Didn't your last one get locked/deleted by the mods for selling your wares?
Sure did!

wait WHAT??

that's not at ALL true. I've NEVER tried to sell anything on these forums.

HA HA... glad you clarified for everyone that one.
What about privately off the forums to people here, ie via private message, IM, KIK, etc.....eh?

CoachReddy

Attempting to force people to prove your baseless assertions wrong just so they do your research for you is pretty scummy.

lol these aren't even my assertions. it's a quote. from a book. that i read. that i thought was interesting.

if someone wants to refute it, cool, but at least use information that refutes it.

BACONJOKESRSOFUNNY

Whatever you say... coach.

AnvilHead

TEF doesn't suddenly spike or dip simply because the protein, fat or carbohydrates came from a certain type of food. Your body doesn't know what a Big Mac is - all it knows is there are macronutrients coming on board, and it processes them accordingly. It sounds to me like the source of that article has a vegan and/or orthorexic bias and is making up "facts" to further his agenda without regard to science.

also, your quote doesn't support the bolded statement.

It most certainly does. The TEF of each macronutrient is a relative constant, regardless of the source of said macronutrient. A gram of carbohydrate, fat or protein from a fast food meal will be processed by the body just like a gram of carbohydrate, fat or protein from an organic, rainbow-fed, unicorn-raised plant, legume or grain. The TEF will be the same. Proteins are proteins. Carbohydrates are carbohydrates. Fats are fats.

Welcome back to my 'ignore' list. Hopefully someday you'll learn the difference between research and propaganda.

CoachReddy

TEF doesn't suddenly spike or dip simply because the protein, fat or carbohydrates came from a certain type of food. Your body doesn't know what a Big Mac is - all it knows is there are macronutrients coming on board, and it processes them accordingly. It sounds to me like the source of that article has a vegan and/or orthorexic bias and is making up "facts" to further his agenda without regard to science.

also, your quote doesn't support the bolded statement.

It most certainly does. The TEF of each macronutrient is a relative constant, regardless of the source of said macronutrient. A gram of carbohydrate, fat or protein from a fast food meal will be processed by the body just like a gram of carbohydrate, fat or protein from an organic, rainbow-fed, unicorn-raised plant, legume or grain. The TEF will be the same. Proteins are proteins. Carbohydrates are carbohydrates. Fats are fats.

Welcome back to my 'ignore' list. Hopefully someday you'll learn the difference between research and propaganda.

re: the bolded - according to WHO!? Show me the research you're so proud of!

lol a book with hundreds of sources from medical and scientific establishments is hardly propaganda. but honestly i'm fine with being on your ignore list, that means I can spread my "propaganda" without being questioned by half-baked "science"

BurtHuttz

Attempting to force people to prove your baseless assertions wrong just so they do your research for you is pretty scummy.

CoachReddy

Attempting to force people to prove your baseless assertions wrong just so they do your research for you is pretty scummy.

you're silly. if HE makes a statement without supporting it, it's not MY job to do the research. lol

BurtHuttz

Attempting to force people to prove your baseless assertions wrong just so they do your research for you is pretty scummy.

you're silly. if HE makes a statement without supporting it, it's not MY job to do the research. lol

No, you're choosing the worst, most disrespectful and ungrateful way to learn.

having these discussions forces me to do more research which helps me learn and helps my views evolve. i'm trying to learn more about all this stuff because it's a field i'm extremely interested in. having these conversations may be annoying to you guys - and if that's the case i apologize - but ones like this where actual information and resources are exchanging hands are really useful for me and i appreciate it.

FitnessPalWorks

BTW - you had a donut in your diary? Is that not considered "processed food" CoachReddy?
Also, aren't the Triscuits in your diary also "processed food".....????

Just pointing out the obvious.....

psuLemon

Here is something funny. While no one will disagree that fast food is bad for you, the MOST ELITE athlete in the world ever, consistently eats unhealthy processed foods such as pizza, french toast, pancakes and more. Please explain how the most elite athlete in the worlds performance suffered?

http://healthland.time.com/2012/12/12/the-most-popular-diets-of-2012-according-to-google/slide/michael-phelps-diet/

girlonabikedc

"A calorie is defined as a measure of food energy".

Actually no, no its not.

A calorie is the amount of energy (or heat) needed fo raise the tenperature of 1 gram of water, 1 degree celsius.

If you can't even get basic chemistry correct, I'm not gonna bother reading the rest. Sorry.