Paleo Eating Program

AngelaH10

*watching*

rusty1257

If the whole caveman notion is not really your thing then I suggest reading "It Starts With Food" by the whole9/whole30 people. Also their site has some good articles and their forum is pretty active.

Also there is a group here called "Primal/Paleo Support Group" that could be helpful to you.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/forums/show/54-primal-paleo-support-group

These threads on the main boards often turn ugly.

debdelilah

I first heard about Paleo from a weight lifting post on mfp:
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/

But if you scroll to the section of "what Stacy eats" her version of Paleo is not low carb. She eats sweet potatoes and fruit(plenty of it) along with the protein and fats, so she doesn't seem to be carb depleting at all. Obviously she looks and feels good.

But checking out the Paleo forum on this site - there are people cutting carbs out so completely they are getting dizzy and ill from it and they are still not modifying the diet - why? There is nothing bad about complex carbs, they fuel both the brain and exercise, and we still need a lot of them, even if not the 95% our primate ancestors did. If a something makes you so dizzy you feel you are going to pass out, why continue it?

neanderthin

The primary basis of the Paleo diet is that you only eat foods that were available to man in the paleolithic period. That way all of the foods that came about after the advent of agriculture (grains, dairy, legumes, and processed foods) are out.

Seems strange...didn't agriculture evolve because it lead to healthier humans?

No actually once agriicultue developed our brains got smaller and body's got weaker we developed osteoporosis and tooth cavities, cancer etc
It developed as it was easier and allowed us to stay in one place - easier for community etc

We started living longer, though, in agricultural societies - cancer and osteoporosis are diseases of old age. And it's hard to deny that quite a lot of the things we take for granted today have been developed after the dawn of agriculture-how could this have happened if it had such a detrimental effect on the brain?
Our primate ancestors ate a diet that was 95% herbivore and 5% insects/meat - I've been reading some material that shows that increasing the meat consumption, especially fish consumption with Omega-3s- probably helped with human evolutionary brain development.
But our brains are still fueled by glucose - it is "the only fuel normally used by brain cells". So complex carbohydrates are brain-healthy, not the opposite.
http://www.fi.edu/learn/brain/carbs.html

Low carb diets are linked with decreased exercise capacity and increased fatigue:
http://www.brianmac.co.uk/articles/scni18a3.htm

We evolved over a few million years and yes we were primarily tree dwellers eating what was found in the canopy so that is definitely true, but as we evolved we became more scavenger gatherers for hundreds of thousands of years increasing our protein consumption which included more meat, the real improvement came when we used fire to cook, making many nutrients more bio-available around 750,000 yrs ago. We certainly can consume raw meat without health issues, it's done all over the world today without problems. Adaption to ketones and fat helped during times of starvation and winters, people did live where there were winters, not just during the ice age, we populated varying degrees north of the equator. The ethnoligical atlas puts the average animal/plant consumption at about 65/35 for recent H-G with some pretty drastic ranges from 2% carbs to 70%, which proves we were adaptable and will continue to be. If someone didn't die before 5 yrs of age, it wasn't uncommon for people to live as long back then as now. There are countries in Africa now that have life expectancies in the low 40's but that doesn't mean much considering when death from disease, birth, starvation is taken into account.

Tanja_CHH

Ive you want some real advice on the paleo diet, rather than an argument whether it's good or not, join the Paleo/Primal group! First topic is difference between primal and paleo which will explain the dairy conflict you have

debdelilah

We certainly can consume raw meat without health issues, it's done all over the world today without problems.

But we are omnivores with mixed messages in our body, you could say. We don't have strong stomach acids to kill the bacteria in raw meat.

We also don't have the jaw strength to tear through fur into a live animal or break an animal's neck by biting it.



Brock Lesnar's story:

http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/detail/2768931

neanderthin

We certainly can consume raw meat without health issues, it's done all over the world today without problems.

But we are omnivores with mixed messages in our body, you could say. We don't have strong stomach acids to kill the bacteria in raw meat.

We also don't have the jaw strength to tear through fur into a live animal or break an animal's neck by biting it.



Brock Lesnar's story:

http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/detail/2768931

We were scavengers and the hunted for a few million years, not hunters. We've evolved to be who we are today.....what are you trying to say...That we're herbivores that can't/shouldn't eat meat and because we' don't have jaws like carnivores we're confused and don't know how we got to be where we are today, it was just blind luck and we should go back to the canopy and eat blossoms...where are you going with this,

debdelilah

[We were scavengers and the hunted for a few million years, not hunters. We've evolved to be who we are today.....what are you trying to say...That we're herbivores that can't/shouldn't eat meat and because we' don't have jaws like carnivores we're confused and don't know how we got to be where we are today, it was just blind luck and we should go back to the canopy and eat blossoms...where are you going with this,

You are starting to become a bit rude.
My point is that we're omnivores. We went through a stage of evolution where we had much larger jaws and stronger teeth, though at the beginning of the Paleolithic period what we're really talking about is many species of hominids - prehumans, who were not identical to us - they could chew through seeds as well as scavenge meat, and the possibility is that agriculture started because they were cultivating foods that they already knew to be edible.

So what I'm advocating is a balanced diet with both animal protein and carbohydrates, and not really low carbohydrates either - because if you think about it we have at least as many traits that haven't changed since we were primates in the trees as traits that have. We have the same type of hand(it isn't a claw and isn't an effective attack tool). We have a similar type of mouth, not herbivorous but not carnivorous either - with a few traits of carnivores(canines) but also traits of herbivores(the size, strength and shape of the teeth are not like those of lions and sharks, or even dog's teeth). We still have brains that depend entirely on glucose, which comes most efficiently from complex carbs. Our ability to sustain activity(brain activity or other exercise activity) is most efficient when eating complex carbs. We also evolved to need amino acids that come from animal products - so no, we are not natural herbivores. But we are not natural carnivores either - thank goodness! When a male lion mates with a female lion that already has cubs through another male, he kills and eats the cubs. But the herd animals that lions hunt are accustomed to form a protective circle around their young. If we didn't have some herbivorous traits to us, we probably would not be able to live together as we do.

1223345

I considered this myself several months ago. I researched as well, and I foun the same whacky info. Too many conflicting things. Of course, I think this is because what our cave man ancestors ate depended on where they were geographically. What was available to some was not available to others. People near the equator would surely have different food available as opposed to hise further away. I think it is a hard diet to nail down for that reason.

neanderthin

[We were scavengers and the hunted for a few million years, not hunters. We've evolved to be who we are today.....what are you trying to say...That we're herbivores that can't/shouldn't eat meat and because we' don't have jaws like carnivores we're confused and don't know how we got to be where we are today, it was just blind luck and we should go back to the canopy and eat blossoms...where are you going with this,

You are starting to become a bit rude.
My point is that we're omnivores. We went through a stage of evolution where we had much larger jaws and stronger teeth, though at the beginning of the Paleolithic period what we're really talking about is many species of hominids - prehumans, who were not identical to us - they could chew through seeds as well as scavenge meat, and the possibility is that agriculture started because they were cultivating foods that they already knew to be edible.

So what I'm advocating is a balanced diet with both animal protein and carbohydrates, and not really low carbohydrates either - because if you think about it we have at least as many traits that haven't changed since we were primates in the trees as traits that have. We have the same type of hand(it isn't a claw and isn't an effective attack tool). We have a similar type of mouth, not herbivorous but not carnivorous either - with a few traits of carnivores(canines) but also traits of herbivores(the size, strength and shape of the teeth are not like those of lions and sharks, or even dog's teeth). We still have brains that depend entirely on glucose, which comes most efficiently from complex carbs. Our ability to sustain activity(brain activity or other exercise activity) is most efficient when eating complex carbs. We also evolved to need amino acids that come from animal products - so no, we are not natural herbivores. But we are not natural carnivores either - thank goodness! When a male lion mates with a female lion that already has cubs through another male, he kills and eats the cubs. But the herd animals that lions hunt are accustomed to form a protective circle around their young. If we didn't have some herbivorous traits to us, we probably would not be able to live together as we do.

Gotcha. Paleo is not low carb per se......it's only sold that way, I have no problem consuming carbs. I personally don't see the logic with describing other species to us, then using that to describe who we are. Maybe I'm missing your point. It's all good, I certainly wasn't trying to be rude.

corneredbycorn

I also considered it a few months ago, but realized quickly that it wasnt sustainable for me. At the very least, pasta is one of my favorite foods and it was one of the biggest no-nos. I did, however, like how I felt, so I've set my macros to 50/25/25 f/p/c and it's been working out well.

NeverGivesUp

I eat healthy, why not make up your own diet instead of telling people you eat like a caveman. It sounds so ridiculously stupid.

A very good point, however, the average person doesn't know about Macros, Micros, blood sugar spikes, glycemic index etc.
So it is hard to produce the right nutrition if you know little about it.
Its opening up the hood of a car, getting someone who doesn't know mechanics, pointing to everything and naming it. Engine,carberetta etc and telling them to fix it!
I have not read into Paleo, but from what people are suggesting is that is pushing them in the right direction to eat the correct foods at the correct time of day.

I still think cutting legumes out and quinoa is completely ridiculous. Especially when you sprout them, they are so very good for you and easily digestible. Also dairy if you have no problems with that, why cut it out, same with peanuts, I can go on and on. There is something wrong when you have to bring a list or get an app on your phone with you to see what is acceptable to eat and what isn't based on someone elses unfounded opinion as to what you should be eating. Sure cut out almost everything from anyones diet and they will lose weight, that is obvious especially coke and processed foods. There are far better ways to figure out how to eat healthily than this. Seriously, eat like a caveman? It sounds so stupid. Why not say I have taken the processed food out of my diet, or I don't eat white bread, or I am gluten free because gluten irritates my system, or I am allergic to peanuts, or I am a vegetarian etc etc....
And eating at correct times of day that is a myth. You can eat your calories whenever you see fit.

Again i half agree with you.
Dairy obviously has benefits of Calcium and other micro nutrients. And Legumes are a good source of protein for vegetarians.
However eating at correct times of day does help.
I know there is intermittent fasting etc, but again whos to say that your home made nutrition plan is better then IF?
Eating at period through the day regulates blood sugar and doesn't allow it to spike, insulin kicks in takes the glucose you get a blood sugar low, you get hungry. Thats the cycle if you eat the wrong things at the wrong times!
One reason for obesity.
Regulating what and when you eat is good for staying full, without stuffing your face.
The body can only take a certain amount of Macros at at time so no point using lots of your calories each meal. Its better to break them up into smaller meals every 2-3 hours to keep your metabolism going and to regulate blood sugar

this is a myth and there is no scientific basis for consuming a meal every 2-3 hours. That is definitely not proven. It is personal preference. For example I am a quantity eater and do really well with IF. It works amazingly for me. I eat in the later evening predominately. Your metabolism doesn't need to keep going, that is also a myth as well as regulating blood sugar.

1223345

I eat healthy, why not make up your own diet instead of telling people you eat like a caveman. It sounds so ridiculously stupid.

A very good point, however, the average person doesn't know about Macros, Micros, blood sugar spikes, glycemic index etc.
So it is hard to produce the right nutrition if you know little about it.
Its opening up the hood of a car, getting someone who doesn't know mechanics, pointing to everything and naming it. Engine,carberetta etc and telling them to fix it!
I have not read into Paleo, but from what people are suggesting is that is pushing them in the right direction to eat the correct foods at the correct time of day.

I still think cutting legumes out and quinoa is completely ridiculous. Especially when you sprout them, they are so very good for you and easily digestible. Also dairy if you have no problems with that, why cut it out, same with peanuts, I can go on and on. There is something wrong when you have to bring a list or get an app on your phone with you to see what is acceptable to eat and what isn't based on someone elses unfounded opinion as to what you should be eating. Sure cut out almost everything from anyones diet and they will lose weight, that is obvious especially coke and processed foods. There are far better ways to figure out how to eat healthily than this. Seriously, eat like a caveman? It sounds so stupid. Why not say I have taken the processed food out of my diet, or I don't eat white bread, or I am gluten free because gluten irritates my system, or I am allergic to peanuts, or I am a vegetarian etc etc....
And eating at correct times of day that is a myth. You can eat your calories whenever you see fit.

Again i half agree with you.
Dairy obviously has benefits of Calcium and other micro nutrients. And Legumes are a good source of protein for vegetarians.
However eating at correct times of day does help.
I know there is intermittent fasting etc, but again whos to say that your home made nutrition plan is better then IF?
Eating at period through the day regulates blood sugar and doesn't allow it to spike, insulin kicks in takes the glucose you get a blood sugar low, you get hungry. Thats the cycle if you eat the wrong things at the wrong times!
One reason for obesity.
Regulating what and when you eat is good for staying full, without stuffing your face.
The body can only take a certain amount of Macros at at time so no point using lots of your calories each meal. Its better to break them up into smaller meals every 2-3 hours to keep your metabolism going and to regulate blood sugar

this is a myth and there is no scientific basis for consuming a meal every 2-3 hours. That is definitely not proven. It is personal preference. For example I am a quantity eater and do really well with IF. It works amazingly for me. I eat in the later evening predominately. Your metabolism doesn't need to keep going, that is also a myth as well as regulating blood sugar.

IF has been a blessing to me. It has been the one thing that has helped me above everything else. And if I eat several small meals, I tend to really just stay hungry. The more I eat, the more I want to eat. The myth also about going into starvation mode. The body does not enter starvation mode after only a few hours, it takes a few days, maybe even weeks for that to happen.

NeverGivesUp

I eat healthy, why not make up your own diet instead of telling people you eat like a caveman. It sounds so ridiculously stupid.

A very good point, however, the average person doesn't know about Macros, Micros, blood sugar spikes, glycemic index etc.
So it is hard to produce the right nutrition if you know little about it.
Its opening up the hood of a car, getting someone who doesn't know mechanics, pointing to everything and naming it. Engine,carberetta etc and telling them to fix it!
I have not read into Paleo, but from what people are suggesting is that is pushing them in the right direction to eat the correct foods at the correct time of day.

I still think cutting legumes out and quinoa is completely ridiculous. Especially when you sprout them, they are so very good for you and easily digestible. Also dairy if you have no problems with that, why cut it out, same with peanuts, I can go on and on. There is something wrong when you have to bring a list or get an app on your phone with you to see what is acceptable to eat and what isn't based on someone elses unfounded opinion as to what you should be eating. Sure cut out almost everything from anyones diet and they will lose weight, that is obvious especially coke and processed foods. There are far better ways to figure out how to eat healthily than this. Seriously, eat like a caveman? It sounds so stupid. Why not say I have taken the processed food out of my diet, or I don't eat white bread, or I am gluten free because gluten irritates my system, or I am allergic to peanuts, or I am a vegetarian etc etc....
And eating at correct times of day that is a myth. You can eat your calories whenever you see fit.

Again i half agree with you.
Dairy obviously has benefits of Calcium and other micro nutrients. And Legumes are a good source of protein for vegetarians.
However eating at correct times of day does help.
I know there is intermittent fasting etc, but again whos to say that your home made nutrition plan is better then IF?
Eating at period through the day regulates blood sugar and doesn't allow it to spike, insulin kicks in takes the glucose you get a blood sugar low, you get hungry. Thats the cycle if you eat the wrong things at the wrong times!
One reason for obesity.
Regulating what and when you eat is good for staying full, without stuffing your face.
The body can only take a certain amount of Macros at at time so no point using lots of your calories each meal. Its better to break them up into smaller meals every 2-3 hours to keep your metabolism going and to regulate blood sugar

this is a myth and there is no scientific basis for consuming a meal every 2-3 hours. That is definitely not proven. It is personal preference. For example I am a quantity eater and do really well with IF. It works amazingly for me. I eat in the later evening predominately. Your metabolism doesn't need to keep going, that is also a myth as well as regulating blood sugar.

IF has been a blessing to me. It has been the one thing that has helped me above everything else. And if I eat several small meals, I tend to really just stay hungry. The more I eat, the more I want to eat. The myth also about going into starvation mode. The body does not enter starvation mode after only a few hours, it takes a few days, maybe even weeks for that to happen.

Thank you, the same goes for me. I do not deny that some people do better eating more frequently just like I do not like being questioned for eating one meal a day. It works for me and that is ALL that matters. It took a long time for me to figure that out. Everyone has their own journey after all. IF is a blessing for me too. I felt so unsatisfied eating a little bit frequently. I like to eat and feel good and full just as much as I like to feel empty. I am lucky to have both of those feelings every single day, kind of like having my cake and eating it too

green_owl

I don’t really care about all these theories, but I have experimented a lot what sort of eating suits me the best. So for the last two years I have been partly following paleo principles. Definitely no processed stuff, no grains and no sugar. I eat a little bit dairy if it’s sugar free, like cheese, cottage cheese, natural yogurt, cream, milk and butter. I eat a little bit legumes. Even if paleo allows them I’m cutting out potatoes.
Eating like this makes me feel great! And I don’t have to count how much I eat.

AMBlass

I highly recommend doing some investigation into the Paleo diet before making any judgments. Even people within the Paleo community eat differently, but there are certain overarching guidelines. However, the "caveman" term is not really used anymore, because as people point out, there was not one caveman. Some populations primarily ate carbohydrates from fruits and vegetables, some ate primarily protein from seafood (like the Eskimos). The main thing to keep in mind with the Paleo diet are: foods that were available to someone (not necessarily everyone) during the Paleolithic era.

Most things that you find in a Paleo cookbook weren't around back then either, because I'm sure most ancient populations simply didn't cook ingredients together the way we have grown accustomed to. It's definitely a hybrid, but it's a hybrid based on the historical information we have. So let's not get too carried away with being "perfect cavemen." That's certainly not going to happen, nor is it expected!

As for information on grains, dairy, legumes, etc. I definitely recommend reading It Starts With Food or Robb Wolf's The Paleo Solution. They will have much more information into the theories and explanations for why those foods should be eliminated or at least minimized. I would try to explain but I couldn't do it justice.

Last point: nowhere will you find someone saying "You can't EVER eat XYZ" Yes, the Paleo diet recommends not eating certain things, but they also realize that we live in a society where this isn't the norm. As long as it doesn't derail your health (like having celiac or being lactose-intolerant) then there's no reason not to have it for special occasions.

NeverGivesUp

I highly recommend doing some investigation into the Paleo diet before making any judgments. Even people within the Paleo community eat differently, but there are certain overarching guidelines. However, the "caveman" term is not really used anymore, because as people point out, there was not one caveman. Some populations primarily ate carbohydrates from fruits and vegetables, some ate primarily protein from seafood (like the Eskimos). The main thing to keep in mind with the Paleo diet are: foods that were available to someone (not necessarily everyone) during the Paleolithic era.

Most things that you find in a Paleo cookbook weren't around back then either, because I'm sure most ancient populations simply didn't cook ingredients together the way we have grown accustomed to. It's definitely a hybrid, but it's a hybrid based on the historical information we have. So let's not get too carried away with being "perfect cavemen." That's certainly not going to happen, nor is it expected!

As for information on grains, dairy, legumes, etc. I definitely recommend reading It Starts With Food or Robb Wolf's The Paleo Solution. They will have much more information into the theories and explanations for why those foods should be eliminated or at least minimized. I would try to explain but I couldn't do it justice.

Last point: nowhere will you find someone saying "You can't EVER eat XYZ" Yes, the Paleo diet recommends not eating certain things, but they also realize that we live in a society where this isn't the norm. As long as it doesn't derail your health (like having celiac or being lactose-intolerant) then there's no reason not to have it for special occasions.

Why not decide for yourself on what you can tolerate?. Why call it Paleo or Primal or eating like a caveman? Seriously the terminology is so irritating to me. Everyone should listen to their own bodies plain and simple. Putting a stupid name to it just takes your power away. I decide what works for me and what food makes me feel good or bad or which foods make me tired or give me energy. We are all different that way. If you eat the foods not recommended then you are not following that diet or lifestyle as some call it. Similarly if you eat meat occassionally, you are not a real vegetarian. Or if you eat bread occasionally, then you are not gluten free. People call this a lifestyle so why would you allow those foods in your life part time? That makes no sense. But if you choose it for yourself, you have all the power to decide what works for you and what doesn't. Simple.

neverstray

I used to argue that Paleo was dumb. I had reasons for that. But, I'm the type that will try it so I understand why it's dumb and I can argue from an insider point of view. I started a couple weeks ago, and wow. My energy is amazing. I am never hungry. I struggle to get up to my calories. I only need 1700 or 1800. I find it easy, cheap, and super intuitive and I love the food. I love having a pork chop and 3 eggs for breakfast. It definitely holds me until lunch. I love nuts to death.

My body fat is coming off already. I've been stuck for a long time. I feel great and love this diet. I feel healthy and awesome. I never eat out anymore and I have no urges to snack.

All I can say is to try it. It's really easy. I do not eat dairy, grains, or any processed food. Yesterday, I cheated by eating some home made cookies. Meh? I'm not completely hard core. But, 99% of the time I am. I love it so far. Processed carbs suck the life out of you.

AMBlass

Why not decide for yourself on what you can tolerate?. Why call it Paleo or Primal or eating like a caveman? Seriously the terminology is so irritating to me. Everyone should listen to their own bodies plain and simple. Putting a stupid name to it just takes your power away. I decide what works for me and what food makes me feel good or bad or which foods make me tired or give me energy. We are all different that way. If you eat the foods not recommended then you are not following that diet or lifestyle as some call it. Similarly if you eat meat occassionally, you are not a real vegetarian. Or if you eat bread occasionally, then you are not gluten free. People call this a lifestyle so why would you allow those foods in your life part time? That makes no sense. But if you choose it for yourself, you have all the power to decide what works for you and what doesn't. Simple.

I'm sorry, did I miss the part where someone is forcing you to become Paleo? Of course no one needs to follow anything they don't like or don't believe in. I've done my own research and I believe based on my reading and my practice of the diet that it works very well for me. If you don't like it then don't do it. Simple.

ukgirly01

Paleo/primal isnt exactly restrictive its v v easy- and whilst you may think it "sucks balls" I'll be sticking with it as I've lost over 60lbs and feel great! Can't argue with that!