Observations on Body Shaming
Replies
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Patti, this is just a fantastically written post and hits a lot of points from both sides of the argument.
It really is disheartening to see comments using language like "gross" and "disgusting" being tossed around on here. MFP is supposed to be a welcoming place for people with all sorts of fitness and health goals regardless of where they start out or end up (obviously as long as those goals are healthy, i.e. no pro-ana or pro-bulemia). As karincakes said earlier, "let's just all be awesome."6. Pregosaurusrex really is pregnant. I checked.
Yes, I really am pregnant, and it's a boy.
Rex - congratulations! i always tell people that my boys are evidence that g*d loves me and wants me to be happy... and Patti - agree with the others - although it's a major challenge this time of the year (makes me glad i joined in March last year - i missed the last round of newbie posts) - there are ways to close down a thread without getting personally mean... :flowerforyou:0 -
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I missed the threads yesterday (thank goodness) but this sounds awfully familiar. Is this the same girl who was posting braless, thong photos a couple of weeks ago and telling everyone off for "hating on her big boobs" when they were telling her that what she was posting is against the terms? Claiming that she warned everyone that they were revealing photos by calling it a "NSV" post (obviously having no idea what that means). Then, after her pictures were removed from the post and the topic locked started 2 new threads over the next few hours?
I do not EVER condone telling someone who is working hard to become comfortable in their skin that they are "gross" or "disgusting" but if this is the same person then she is a troll, a trouble starter and an attention wh***. The real question should be why are the mods allowing this to happen?0 -
You are awesome for this. I was thinking all these things but you phrased these thoughts perfectly!0
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HOWEVERRRRR...
When you post in the forums you open your topic up for all sorts of opinions and ****.0 -
However, there are ways to post your opinions with tact and grace.... so the whole reason/excuse of "If you put your picture out there.... " is a cop-out that is used to be catty. And that is more unbecoming than any picture that comes across the threads.0
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However, there are ways to post your opinions with tact and grace.... so the whole reason/excuse of "If you put your picture out there.... " is a cop-out that is used to be catty. And that is more unbecoming than any picture that comes across the threads.
Opening something to opinions from different people means they wont always be nice & lovely. Its the internet...0 -
Body shaming is bad, mmmkay....unless it's a GIF making fun of skinny boys, or maybe built bros who skip leg day. Then, it's OK.
Bahaha, I'll respond here since you pointed to me this thread...
My only comment on that would be, I find that people often critique the "skipping leg day" crew because a large consensus would agree it's not smart to do; overtraining certain body parts over others can result in literally throwing the body off balance, increase in injuries, etc. etc. I don't think it's necessarily a, "You look bad with big arms and skinny legs!" it's more of a, "It's very visible to us that you might not know as much about strength training as you say you do" as, falling back on stereotypes here, "bros" tend to do.
Otherwise, I'm 100% behind the "It's just as body shaming to make fun of skinny."
Good post, and I hope it keeps getting bumped in light of the 2-3 body shaming posts we have a day here...0 -
However, there are ways to post your opinions with tact and grace.... so the whole reason/excuse of "If you put your picture out there.... " is a cop-out that is used to be catty. And that is more unbecoming than any picture that comes across the threads.
Opening something to opinions from different people means they wont always be nice & lovely. Its the internet...
Yes, it is the internet. However, there's a difference between, "This is my body and insecurities to show my PERSONAL success" versus "What do you guys think about raspberry ketones?"
I'm very adamant against censorship, but I think personal success stories are probably the only time I'd agree with the go-to MFP response of, "If you don't like it, move on." Success, body type, body composition, etc., are all too subjective for someone to go into a topic and say, "Not for me." Share it on your own wall.0 -
I'm guilty of this one and make no apologies for it. I did it to try to teach people a simple lesson about manners. If you feel that just because it's the internet you have the right to absolutely trash the way someone looks, don't get upset if it's done back to you.
I don't agree with that approach, though. Calling someone fat because you don't like the comment they made about someone else's body makes you just as bad as them. They won't see it as you teaching them manners. Body shaming is body shaming. Doesn't matter who does it first.
^This. I'm guilty of throwing insults back when they're thrown at me first, but that doesn't make it okay, justified, or deserved. It just means that instead of being the better person, you let your temper get in the way. People love to hide behind the excuse of "oh, it's the internet" as if the people whose text you're reading aren't really real people on the other side of the screen, and that's not fair to anyone. Even someone making vicious posts on here is a person, and while they are violating the TOS by doing that it doesn't give you a free pass at insulting them.0 -
You know I'm no saint, Patti. I don't mind acting like a jerk sometimes if it helps out someone else, or is the right thing to do.
I hate to burst your bubble dude, but being a jerk very rarely truly "helps" someone and is never, ever the "right thing to do". Yes, you may take down a few trolls by being mean to them, but if someone wants to come onto this (or any other) site and start flaming, they'll do it regardless of the responses they get. In fact, some of them ENJOY the responses and use it as fuel. Hence the saying "don't feed the troll". It's true that sometimes, a perfectly nice person will just be having a crappy day and will speak out of turn without really realizing it, and a few sharp words will put them in their place. But if you're really that committed to cleaning the trolls off MFP, learn to kill with kindness.0 -
I'm guilty of this one and make no apologies for it. I did it to try to teach people a simple lesson about manners. If you feel that just because it's the internet you have the right to absolutely trash the way someone looks, don't get upset if it's done back to you.
I don't agree with that approach, though. Calling someone fat because you don't like the comment they made about someone else's body makes you just as bad as them. They won't see it as you teaching them manners. Body shaming is body shaming. Doesn't matter who does it first.
^This. I'm guilty of throwing insults back when they're thrown at me first, but that doesn't make it okay, justified, or deserved. It just means that instead of being the better person, you let your temper get in the way. People love to hide behind the excuse of "oh, it's the internet" as if the people whose text you're reading aren't really real people on the other side of the screen, and that's not fair to anyone. Even someone making vicious posts on here is a person, and while they are violating the TOS by doing that it doesn't give you a free pass at insulting them.
Its not just "the internet"
There are mean scarey people out there ya know0 -
There were a couple of threads yesterday that turned in to body shaming. Interesting things I observed and thoughts I had.
1. If you don't WANT to look like someone in a success thread, you don't have to share that info. When you criticize someone's appearance, you may sound jealous.
2. Not everyone wants to be a hard body, and that's okay.
3. If you are a hard body, don't think that everyone on here has the same goals. Don't assume people are jealous of you just because they don't look like you or because they disagree with you on certain issues.
4. While you're admonishing others about "body shaming", calling them fat and couch potatoes doesn't make you much better.
5. Having fake boobs, colored hair, bleached teeth, tattoos, or fake tans does NOT mean your muscles are all fake or that you "cheated" to look good. (nor does having WLS)
6. Pregosaurusrex really is pregnant. I checked.
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Only people with sour attitudes make nasty comments... the rest of us laugh, cheer, support and encourage.
( you can't help their attitudes.. you can only help your own )..0 -
I agree with this post whole heartedly. I really just wish body shaming of all forms would stop, but I know that's asking too much.
This.0 -
Well said.
I'm glad the whole thing about Pregosaurusrex got cleared up.0 -
I'm guilty of this one and make no apologies for it. I did it to try to teach people a simple lesson about manners. If you feel that just because it's the internet you have the right to absolutely trash the way someone looks, don't get upset if it's done back to you.
I don't agree with that approach, though. Calling someone fat because you don't like the comment they made about someone else's body makes you just as bad as them. They won't see it as you teaching them manners. Body shaming is body shaming. Doesn't matter who does it first.
^This. I'm guilty of throwing insults back when they're thrown at me first, but that doesn't make it okay, justified, or deserved. It just means that instead of being the better person, you let your temper get in the way. People love to hide behind the excuse of "oh, it's the internet" as if the people whose text you're reading aren't really real people on the other side of the screen, and that's not fair to anyone. Even someone making vicious posts on here is a person, and while they are violating the TOS by doing that it doesn't give you a free pass at insulting them.
Its not just "the internet"
There are mean scarey people out there ya know
Did you actually read my post? My whole point is that most people that we think of that we see on the internet as "scary", "idiots", "*kitten*", or whatever other derogatory term we can think of are usually just people like us, having a bad day or expressing their emotions in an unhealthy way. There are far more people on the internet who are depressed or have severe social anxiety than serial killers and pedophiles. That hardly makes them "scary".0 -
I understand what you're saying, but when somebody throws pictures out there, they should expect comments that run the gamut from good, bad, and indifferent.
Do you do feel the need to give your opinion when not asked in other aspects of your life? Do you go through the classified ads and say, "I see you're selling a Ford Explorer, but I don't like Fords and will only buy a Chevy?"
If someone asks my opinion, I'll give it. If someone asks, "Which of these haircuts would look best on me?" I'll offer suggestions. But I'm not going to go through random pictures and tell people, "You'd look better if you got a new hair style."
Well said.0 -
I'm very adamant against censorship, but I think personal success stories are probably the only time I'd agree with the go-to MFP response of, "If you don't like it, move on." Success, body type, body composition, etc., are all too subjective for someone to go into a topic and say, "Not for me." Share it on your own wall.
AGREED, 100%.
People put up success pics for different reasons, but most of them have this in common: they want to show others that improvement is possible, and they want to get support and praise for their hard work.
While I am all for debating topics, I don't think people should be allowed to post insults on success story threads. This is one instance where nothing can be gained from hearing negative feedback.
The girl who kept putting up pics that violated the TOS was obnoxious, but so were the comments some people were making. I don't think it's out of line to tell her she's breaking the rules, but you don't have to weigh in with your opinions on how she's too fat to show that much of her body, how "appropriate" her body hair is, what underwear she chooses to wear, etc. etc.
The guy who put up photos of his fiance was obviously very proud of her work (and in some ways his, since he's her trainer). He chose a title for the thread that may have put some people on the defensive, but that's no excuse for people to pick her apart. She is certainly a success and deserves accolades, regardless of if "YOU" want to look like her or not. I don't see people saying "That's good but I don't want to look like you" on a post where someone who is 400 pounds got down to 200 pounds. It simply shouldn't be done, no matter what the improvements are. Either acknowledge them for the success they are or GTFO.0 -
I'm very adamant against censorship, but I think personal success stories are probably the only time I'd agree with the go-to MFP response of, "If you don't like it, move on." Success, body type, body composition, etc., are all too subjective for someone to go into a topic and say, "Not for me." Share it on your own wall.
AGREED, 100%.
People put up success pics for different reasons, but most of them have this in common: they want to show others that improvement is possible, and they want to get support and praise for their hard work.
While I am all for debating topics, I don't think people should be allowed to post insults on success story threads. This is one instance where nothing can be gained from hearing negative feedback.
The girl who kept putting up pics that violated the TOS was obnoxious, but so were the comments some people were making. I don't think it's out of line to tell her she's breaking the rules, but you don't have to weigh in with your opinions on how she's too fat to show that much of her body, how "appropriate" her body hair is, what underwear she chooses to wear, etc. etc.
The guy who put up photos of his fiance was obviously very proud of her work (and in some ways his, since he's her trainer). He chose a title for the thread that may have put some people on the defensive, but that's no excuse for people to pick her apart. She is certainly a success and deserves accolades, regardless of if "YOU" want to look like her or not. I don't see people saying "That's good but I don't want to look like you" on a post where someone who is 400 pounds got down to 200 pounds. It simply shouldn't be done, no matter what the improvements are. Either acknowledge them for the success they are or GTFO.0 -
However, there are ways to post your opinions with tact and grace.... so the whole reason/excuse of "If you put your picture out there.... " is a cop-out that is used to be catty. And that is more unbecoming than any picture that comes across the threads.
Opening something to opinions from different people means they wont always be nice & lovely. Its the internet...
Again a cop-out... one can be blunt and to the point without being down right ugly.0 -
*sigh* I wonder why it is SO hard for some people not to make every damn thing about them? To just comment on what is there, and not always turn it around and make it about something that they want or don't want, regardless of the original subject matter? Are some people really that self-centered? I cannot even fathom it.0
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I'm guilty of this one and make no apologies for it. I did it to try to teach people a simple lesson about manners. If you feel that just because it's the internet you have the right to absolutely trash the way someone looks, don't get upset if it's done back to you.
I don't agree with that approach, though. Calling someone fat because you don't like the comment they made about someone else's body makes you just as bad as them. They won't see it as you teaching them manners. Body shaming is body shaming. Doesn't matter who does it first.
^This. I'm guilty of throwing insults back when they're thrown at me first, but that doesn't make it okay, justified, or deserved. It just means that instead of being the better person, you let your temper get in the way. People love to hide behind the excuse of "oh, it's the internet" as if the people whose text you're reading aren't really real people on the other side of the screen, and that's not fair to anyone. Even someone making vicious posts on here is a person, and while they are violating the TOS by doing that it doesn't give you a free pass at insulting them.
Its not just "the internet"
There are mean scarey people out there ya know
Did you actually read my post? My whole point is that most people that we think of that we see on the internet as "scary", "idiots", "*kitten*", or whatever other derogatory term we can think of are usually just people like us, having a bad day or expressing their emotions in an unhealthy way. There are far more people on the internet who are depressed or have severe social anxiety than serial killers and pedophiles. That hardly makes them "scary".
what?
I was talking about the OFFLINE world, not the internet... hence i said "its not just "the internet""0 -
I'm guilty of this one and make no apologies for it. I did it to try to teach people a simple lesson about manners. If you feel that just because it's the internet you have the right to absolutely trash the way someone looks, don't get upset if it's done back to you.
I don't agree with that approach, though. Calling someone fat because you don't like the comment they made about someone else's body makes you just as bad as them. They won't see it as you teaching them manners. Body shaming is body shaming. Doesn't matter who does it first.
^This. I'm guilty of throwing insults back when they're thrown at me first, but that doesn't make it okay, justified, or deserved. It just means that instead of being the better person, you let your temper get in the way. People love to hide behind the excuse of "oh, it's the internet" as if the people whose text you're reading aren't really real people on the other side of the screen, and that's not fair to anyone. Even someone making vicious posts on here is a person, and while they are violating the TOS by doing that it doesn't give you a free pass at insulting them.
Its not just "the internet"
There are mean scarey people out there ya know
Except most people on the internet wouldn't spew the nastiness in person that they do behind the safety of their keyboard.... But all it shows is the true colors of the person typing it.... No one is asking to blow rainbows and unicorns up someones *kitten*... but you don't have to be "mean and scary" about it.... *smh* If you are that says more about who you really are than anything you do in person.0 -
I'm guilty of this one and make no apologies for it. I did it to try to teach people a simple lesson about manners. If you feel that just because it's the internet you have the right to absolutely trash the way someone looks, don't get upset if it's done back to you.
I don't agree with that approach, though. Calling someone fat because you don't like the comment they made about someone else's body makes you just as bad as them. They won't see it as you teaching them manners. Body shaming is body shaming. Doesn't matter who does it first.
^This. I'm guilty of throwing insults back when they're thrown at me first, but that doesn't make it okay, justified, or deserved. It just means that instead of being the better person, you let your temper get in the way. People love to hide behind the excuse of "oh, it's the internet" as if the people whose text you're reading aren't really real people on the other side of the screen, and that's not fair to anyone. Even someone making vicious posts on here is a person, and while they are violating the TOS by doing that it doesn't give you a free pass at insulting them.
Its not just "the internet"
There are mean scarey people out there ya know
Except most people on the internet wouldn't spew the nastiness in person that they do behind the safety of their keyboard.... But all it shows is the true colors of the person typing it.... No one is asking to blow rainbows and unicorns up someones *kitten*... but you don't have to be "mean and scary" about it.... *smh* If you are that says more about who you really are than anything you do in person.
Once again,
I was referring to the OFFLINE world.
Yes, there are mean people in this world. Surprise surprise!0 -
Wow, I really missed something yesterday did I not? LOL. C'mon folks, take a breath.
First off, I don't know exactly what went down yesterday, but I've seen instances of this "shaming" or whatever its called. I don't think most times that people are specifically setting out to insult the person directly, I think that more often than not they are simply stating their own personal preferences as originally asked by the OP. When someone asks an honest question, I think people should give their honest feedback. For God's sakes people, lighten up a little bit.
For instance, some on here don't like the hairless bodybuilder type (just referring to another thread on here that i did see and read yesterday). So, they say that that "look" makes them roll their eyes. Why would a hairless, bodybuilder type be offended by that when they have obviously chosen to look like that and believe that the way they look is the best look? If I were one of them, I'd just kinda roll my eyes back at the people who don't like that look.
Some don't like the type with hair on their chest/back/arms/legs/whatever. That is the look they like, and I'm guessing their men have taken up to trimming, waxing, shaving, whatever. If a hairy guy gets offended because somebody thinks that makes him look bad and be unattractive, then there are things he can do about that to change things.
It would be the same thing if a woman asked if a man likes the ultra-fit, skinny, runner look on a woman, or a woman with curves. Myself, I prefer a woman with some curves. It doesn't make the women with the fitness expert body any less sexy, just not what I look for "in a body". I know a lot of guys that don't like the curves, they prefer a woman to be as thin, toned and cut as possible. To me, not attractive. To them, my women are not the 'ultimate' either. But, if i asked that question, I would expect answers as honest as you could get them.
I know that I'm not everybody's cup of tea but that is who i am. The women that I am attracted to, and that who I end up with are attracted to my "type" I guess, and that has worked out pretty darned well for me thus far. In the end, the "looks" only get most a first or second date. If you can't back up the "look" with character (whatever character the other person is looking for), then it really doesn't add up to dried spit now, does it? Am I changing myself to look differently than I do now? Yes. Do I look down on the "gym-rat, harcore muscle-bound bodybuilder type"? Of course not, they've apparently busted their butts to get to that point, and if that is what they like to look like, its awesome for them. Do I look down on the slim, thin, long-distance runner type? Not at all, that too is a look that requires a lot of work. Myself, I'm going for something in-between the two. Many on either side mentioned above will likely look down on me as "not being committed" or for not "pushing myself hard enough", and that is fine. That is what THEY would do if they were me, but then again.....they are not me, are they? No. So if they choose to "shame me" for not conforming to their ideation of perfection, I just shrug my shoulders, roll my eyes and feel sorry for their closed-mindedness. How boring would this world be if we all looked and thought the same?
If you take things on message boards too personally, you probably shouldn't be on a message board forum, especially one like this one that is specifically named "chit chat, fun and games". I'm just sayin.......0 -
I'm guilty of this one and make no apologies for it. I did it to try to teach people a simple lesson about manners. If you feel that just because it's the internet you have the right to absolutely trash the way someone looks, don't get upset if it's done back to you.
I don't agree with that approach, though. Calling someone fat because you don't like the comment they made about someone else's body makes you just as bad as them. They won't see it as you teaching them manners. Body shaming is body shaming. Doesn't matter who does it first.
^This. I'm guilty of throwing insults back when they're thrown at me first, but that doesn't make it okay, justified, or deserved. It just means that instead of being the better person, you let your temper get in the way. People love to hide behind the excuse of "oh, it's the internet" as if the people whose text you're reading aren't really real people on the other side of the screen, and that's not fair to anyone. Even someone making vicious posts on here is a person, and while they are violating the TOS by doing that it doesn't give you a free pass at insulting them.
Its not just "the internet"
There are mean scarey people out there ya know
Except most people on the internet wouldn't spew the nastiness in person that they do behind the safety of their keyboard.... But all it shows is the true colors of the person typing it.... No one is asking to blow rainbows and unicorns up someones *kitten*... but you don't have to be "mean and scary" about it.... *smh* If you are that says more about who you really are than anything you do in person.
Once again,
I was referring to the OFFLINE world.
Yes, there are mean people in this world. Surprise surprise!
And I did reference OFFLINE world... hence the term "in person"... Yes, there are "mean people" in the world... However, the majority of "mean people" online wouldn't be even half as mean OFFLINE as they are on, because they don't have the guts to do it... My point is, there is NO REASON to be mean just because someone "asked for your opinion" anywhere... it's a cop out... what part of this don't you understand?0 -
I'm guilty of this one and make no apologies for it. I did it to try to teach people a simple lesson about manners. If you feel that just because it's the internet you have the right to absolutely trash the way someone looks, don't get upset if it's done back to you.
I don't agree with that approach, though. Calling someone fat because you don't like the comment they made about someone else's body makes you just as bad as them. They won't see it as you teaching them manners. Body shaming is body shaming. Doesn't matter who does it first.
^This. I'm guilty of throwing insults back when they're thrown at me first, but that doesn't make it okay, justified, or deserved. It just means that instead of being the better person, you let your temper get in the way. People love to hide behind the excuse of "oh, it's the internet" as if the people whose text you're reading aren't really real people on the other side of the screen, and that's not fair to anyone. Even someone making vicious posts on here is a person, and while they are violating the TOS by doing that it doesn't give you a free pass at insulting them.
Its not just "the internet"
There are mean scarey people out there ya know
Except most people on the internet wouldn't spew the nastiness in person that they do behind the safety of their keyboard.... But all it shows is the true colors of the person typing it.... No one is asking to blow rainbows and unicorns up someones *kitten*... but you don't have to be "mean and scary" about it.... *smh* If you are that says more about who you really are than anything you do in person.
Once again,
I was referring to the OFFLINE world.
Yes, there are mean people in this world. Surprise surprise!
And I did reference OFFLINE world... hence the term "in person"... Yes, there are "mean people" in the world... However, the majority of "mean people" online wouldn't be even half as mean OFFLINE as they are on, because they don't have the guts to do it... My point is, there is NO REASON to be mean just because someone "asked for your opinion" anywhere... it's a cop out... what part of this don't you understand?
My point is that an opinion CAN be mean,rude,unfair, whatever you wanna call it.
Everyone expresses their opinion in different ways0 -
My point is that an opinion CAN be mean,rude,unfair, whatever you wanna call it.
Everyone expresses their opinion in different ways
Whatever helps you sleep at night. An opinion does not have to be mean, unfair, blah blah blah... and if that's the only way one can express an opinion than perhaps they should re-evalutate themselves or STFU.0 -
My point is that an opinion CAN be mean,rude,unfair, whatever you wanna call it.
Everyone expresses their opinion in different ways
Whatever helps you sleep at night. An opinion does not have to be mean, unfair, blah blah blah... and if that's the only way one can express an opinion than perhaps they should re-evalutate themselves or STFU.
LOL Ok darling, goodluck with that logic0
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