Beating a Dead Horse

sofaking6

I think that it's important not to starve yourself...it IS true that if you become chronically undernourished you will have all kinds of negative results...eating disorders, disease, stalled metabolism etc.

That said, I don't think I need to eat an extra 1,000 calories a day as long as I am eating healthy, nutritionally dense foods. For one thing, in order to do that I have to add fatty foods and/or stuff myself. It was (is) hard for me to manage my cravings and portion control anyway, so why would I want to undo all the work I've put in in those areas? What if i get hurt and suddenly have to drop 1000 calories a day from my meals?? Ouch!

I think everyone is probably a little different...and I also think that bodies respond well to being surprised and challenged. If you're eating your calories and losing weight and feeling good...keep doing it!! If you're not seeing results that way, create a bigger deficit. If it was working for you one way and now it's not working anymore, change it up.

Just make sure you're not starving..I do think the 1200 cal/day minimum is a good guideline to make sure that you remain healthy, but you can't freak out over it. Use common sense and pay attention to what your body is telling you.

karmasBFF

I mean, I don't know what else to say to you, you say you've read all the stuff posted, and much of that is mine, and is based on solid scientific fact and known trails conducted by very respectable universities and metabolic labs so I won't go further into it.

Here's the thing about the biggest loser. The people on that show are doing extremely long workout intervals, they are well over 35% body fat, and they have doctors watching their every step. So of course they can perform at a higher deficit.

What you have to remember is, the more fat you have relative to your weight and height, the bigger the deficit you can have.

the other thing to remember is IT'S A SHOW. They are looking for super dramatic weight loss so they will push their contestants to lose more weight than is usually acceptable to do. Why do you think the show is so popular. They wouldn't draw anywhere near the same numbers if they had everyone on for a year, and had them work a full time job with stress, and obligations, and kids, and in-laws...etc. and they had them trying to lose at about 2 lbs a week. That just isn't "show worthy"

Generally, for the smaller contestants, you'll see weight loss on average between 3 and 6 lbs. Sure once in a while they'll get a 10 or 12, and that's fine for them, but it doesn't mean that's a safe, sustainable loss. So as you can see, the less you have to lose, the smaller amount you will lose per week.

The real question is this: Are you looking to lose weight, or are you trying to become healthy. losing a large amount of weight is great if it's done healthy, but that's not what the site is about.

I'm not sure you are at liberty to say what the site is about as you are one user amongst thousands. The site is about what the USERS think its about, regardless even of what Mike's intentions were. Again, I am not looking to be convinced-I am looking for a valid answer to the original question.

How do you create a deficit that big and still eat your calories?

Mayoclinic has analyzed the BL diet, and considering they are one of the most reputable health clinics in America, I hold their opinion with high regard. Its a great diet, according to their analysis. Its a healthy way to lose weight. Its a diet that SHOULD be followed. So your argument about it being a show is irrelevant. Because the diet and the concept is real, apart from the show.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THIS SITE ARE 35% over body fat. So, perhaps, in ALL OF THE POSTS THAT ARE YOURS, you should specify where the body fat % should be in order to be required to eat your calories back. I dont mean to be rude, but your post starts off argumentative and that was totally unecessary. For someone that didnt know what else to say, you sure said a lot.

My OP was not meant to offend anyone, especially you. And with no disrepect, there are trainers that argue both sides of the issue. I just want an answer to the question: HOW DO YOU CREATE A LARGER DEFICIT IF YOU ARE EATING BACK YOUR CALORIES???

KatWood

So my opinon on all this is why eat less if you don't need to? I mean what is the point?
I feel better when I adequately fuel my body, especially when I am training hard. And I enjoy eating :laugh:
And I know that although my weightloss will be slow, it will be healthy and sustainable.
To me it isn't about a number on a scale, it is about how I feel (both physically and emotionally) and being a good role model for those around me.
This isn't a race and it isn't temporary, there is no going back or stopping after I cross the finish line.
This is a permanent change to how I live and how I view food and life in general.
Why are we so obsessed with comparing ourselves to what we see in the media?

It is also important to note that the contestants on biggest loser are able to devot their entire days to losing weight. This mean they have way more time to exercise, eat and recover than most of us. Not to mention all the medical supervision. And who's to day they aren't eating back at least some of their exercise calories?

KatWood

HOW DO YOU CREATE A LARGER DEFICIT IF YOU ARE EATING BACK YOUR CALORIES???

Why do you want to?
And seriously this site is about support, motivation and education.
Banks has always been a great source of all 3.

karmasBFF

So I'm confused what your looking for? You don't want people posting who agree with the eating your exercise calories correct? because you make it clear you don't want to hear about that. The posts about it are not just someone oppinions but serious mechanical step by steps on why it works...so you don't want that right? Instead of saying how do you feel about eating your exercise calories... I think your question should be that you are looking for solid evidence other than biggest loser results on why you shouldnt eat them? Correct? Just checking...I'm curious to hear this myself......

I dont want the posts that direct me to the posts I've already read. They are not based on fact or research. They are posted by users just like me and you. Many of them are biased, or from studies that may be biased themselves.

I want a simple answer to a simple question: HOW DO YOU CREATE A LARGERE DEFICIT IF YOU ARE EATING YOUR CALORIES BACK?

simona1972

Here's the thing about the biggest loser. The people on that show are doing extremely long workout intervals, they are well over 35% body fat, and they have doctors watching their every step. So of course they can perform at a higher deficit.

What you have to remember is, the more fat you have relative to your weight and height, the bigger the deficit you can have.

I think you hit the nail on the head with this....especially for me. Im 332lbs, 5'6" tall...I have well more than 35% BF - Im well into the 50% range.

I dont kid myself to think that I would be able to maintain a high deficit forever. But I think while I work to get down to something healthier, I can do it. I know as I lose the weight and then want to maintain, I'll have to find a balance again between calories in and calories out.

BetterVersion

I don't usually respond to these posts because they're just cat fights in the making, but....

I agree with you and I've definitely felt the frustration and confusion you're expressing.

I don't believe in eating your exercise calories. So shoot me. Whatever.

I think people should just go based on what they're comfortable with, and that should be the end of it. Keep your calorie intake at a healthy level, do an adequate amount of exercise for your lifestyle, and call it good. The end.

That being said, though, I don't think we "normal" people should ever compare our weight loss to Biggest Loser contestants. It's not even a question of technicalities like whether or not they eat their exercise calories. It's simply because the rest of us have to work, raise families and lead daily lives, so we don't have the option of working out six hours a day, nor do we have the priviledge of expensive health foods being both bought and prepared for us.

KatWood

I think that it's important not to starve yourself...it IS true that if you become chronically undernourished you will have all kinds of negative results...eating disorders, disease, stalled metabolism etc.

That said, I don't think I need to eat an extra 1,000 calories a day as long as I am eating healthy, nutritionally dense foods. For one thing, in order to do that I have to add fatty foods and/or stuff myself. It was (is) hard for me to manage my cravings and portion control anyway, so why would I want to undo all the work I've put in in those areas? What if i get hurt and suddenly have to drop 1000 calories a day from my meals?? Ouch!

I think everyone is probably a little different...and I also think that bodies respond well to being surprised and challenged. If you're eating your calories and losing weight and feeling good...keep doing it!! If you're not seeing results that way, create a bigger deficit. If it was working for you one way and now it's not working anymore, change it up.

Just make sure you're not starving..I do think the 1200 cal/day minimum is a good guideline to make sure that you remain healthy, but you can't freak out over it. Use common sense and pay attention to what your body is telling you.

I completely agree and would add that if you are at plateau also try increasing your calories a bit too. Changing it up is really important.

chulie

I mean, I don't know what else to say to you, you say you've read all the stuff posted, and much of that is mine, and is based on solid scientific fact and known trails conducted by very respectable universities and metabolic labs so I won't go further into it.

Here's the thing about the biggest loser. The people on that show are doing extremely long workout intervals, they are well over 35% body fat, and they have doctors watching their every step. So of course they can perform at a higher deficit.

What you have to remember is, the more fat you have relative to your weight and height, the bigger the deficit you can have.

the other thing to remember is IT'S A SHOW. They are looking for super dramatic weight loss so they will push their contestants to lose more weight than is usually acceptable to do. Why do you think the show is so popular. They wouldn't draw anywhere near the same numbers if they had everyone on for a year, and had them work a full time job with stress, and obligations, and kids, and in-laws...etc. and they had them trying to lose at about 2 lbs a week. That just isn't "show worthy"

Generally, for the smaller contestants, you'll see weight loss on average between 3 and 6 lbs. Sure once in a while they'll get a 10 or 12, and that's fine for them, but it doesn't mean that's a safe, sustainable loss. So as you can see, the less you have to lose, the smaller amount you will lose per week.

The real question is this: Are you looking to lose weight, or are you trying to become healthy. losing a large amount of weight is great if it's done healthy, but that's not what the site is about.

I'm not sure you are at liberty to say what the site is about as you are one user amongst thousands. The site is about what the USERS think its about, regardless even of what Mike's intentions were. Again, I am not looking to be convinced-I am looking for a valid answer to the original question.

How do you create a deficit that big and still eat your calories?

Mayoclinic has analyzed the BL diet, and considering they are one of the most reputable health clinics in America, I hold their opinion with high regard. Its a great diet, according to their analysis. Its a healthy way to lose weight. Its a diet that SHOULD be followed. So your argument about it being a show is irrelevant. Because the diet and the concept is real, apart from the show.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THIS SITE ARE 35% over body fat. So, perhaps, in ALL OF THE POSTS THAT ARE YOURS, you should specify where the body fat % should be in order to be required to eat your calories back. I dont mean to be rude, but your post starts off argumentative and that was totally unecessary. For someone that didnt know what else to say, you sure said a lot.

My OP was not meant to offend anyone, especially you. And with no disrepect, there are trainers that argue both sides of the issue. I just want an answer to the question: HOW DO YOU CREATE A LARGER DEFICIT IF YOU ARE EATING BACK YOUR CALORIES???

See this is why I asked what you were looking for...because the way you worded your original post it sounded like you WANTED peoples oppinions on eating vs not eating...he was giving his side and if you think that his response was argumentative....sorry but you need to get out into the real world more..... He was being totally respectful and honest...THIS is why I said you should be careful of how you worded it because at least if you were just asking for back up on your oppinion of not eating it...then he would have know to not post a response at all!!!!!

karmasBFF

HOW DO YOU CREATE A LARGER DEFICIT IF YOU ARE EATING BACK YOUR CALORIES???

Why do you want to?
And seriously this site is about support, motivation and education.
Banks has always been a great source of all 3.

Because sure I want to be healthy and maintain the loss, but what's wrong with getting there faster? And there will be people who will judge that for being shallow but I dont think there is one person on this site that hasnt hoped that the weight would just go away! Overnight!

Banks is a great source but when someone starts a post with "Well, I dont know what else to say to you", I do not think that is supportive, motivating or educational. I dont want to hear biased opinions or be questioned on why I would want to create a larger deficit. The answer to that is obvious. I want an answer to the original question. Not an argument. Not a debate. SUPPORTIVE, EDUCATIONAL and MOTIVATIONAL ANSWERS.

bellinachuchina

To answer your question, "How do you create a deficit that big and still eat your calories?", I say you DON'T eat the exercise calories, common sense and of course the purpose of your post!

Some people use this site for being "healthy, fit, toned" etc., while others actually want to lose a great deal of weight. For the ones wanting to lose a lot and in a timely fashion, it would be nonsensical to eat exercise calories. I stand by the saying of having everything in moderation, but AFTER you have reached your goal. Even when you reach maintenance level, you still have to be aware of everything you eat, that's the only way to be lastingly successful.

KatWood

I dont want the posts that direct me to the posts I've already read. They are not based on fact or research. They are posted by users just like me and you. Many of them are biased, or from studies that may be biased themselves.

I want a simple answer to a simple question: HOW DO YOU CREATE A LARGERE DEFICIT IF YOU ARE EATING YOUR CALORIES BACK?

There is no simple answer. I think that is point.
And any responses you receive will be based on studies and opinons and you will have no way of knowing whether they are biased or not. And it is insulting to imply that all the posts you have read are not based on fact or research. There are some very knowledgable people on this site who are willing to lend their support and expertise. They just may not be giving you the answer you want to hear. I'm not saying you shouldn't take things with a grain of salt and do your own research and make up your own mind. That is important. But I think you are asking for an answer no one will be able to give to your satisfaction.

snorker88

I agree with GingerSnark. I don't have a hard and fast rule of "must eat exercise calories" or "must not eat exercise calories". If I'm hungry because I exercised, I allow myself to have some more calories that day. If I'm not, I don't. If I have a special occasion and now I'm going to be high on calories, I try to make sure to get my exercise in. I do try to limit myself to eating 50% or fewer of my exercise calories (although somedays I'm not successful ) because I'd rather give myself a shot at losing faster and to account for the possibility that I didn't burn as many calories as I thought.

I do exactly the same, and have lost consistently over the last month (although am slightly concerned I've hit a plataeu after today's weigh in :ohwell: )

karmasBFF

I mean, I don't know what else to say to you, you say you've read all the stuff posted, and much of that is mine, and is based on solid scientific fact and known trails conducted by very respectable universities and metabolic labs so I won't go further into it.

Here's the thing about the biggest loser. The people on that show are doing extremely long workout intervals, they are well over 35% body fat, and they have doctors watching their every step. So of course they can perform at a higher deficit.

What you have to remember is, the more fat you have relative to your weight and height, the bigger the deficit you can have.

the other thing to remember is IT'S A SHOW. They are looking for super dramatic weight loss so they will push their contestants to lose more weight than is usually acceptable to do. Why do you think the show is so popular. They wouldn't draw anywhere near the same numbers if they had everyone on for a year, and had them work a full time job with stress, and obligations, and kids, and in-laws...etc. and they had them trying to lose at about 2 lbs a week. That just isn't "show worthy"

Generally, for the smaller contestants, you'll see weight loss on average between 3 and 6 lbs. Sure once in a while they'll get a 10 or 12, and that's fine for them, but it doesn't mean that's a safe, sustainable loss. So as you can see, the less you have to lose, the smaller amount you will lose per week.

The real question is this: Are you looking to lose weight, or are you trying to become healthy. losing a large amount of weight is great if it's done healthy, but that's not what the site is about.

I'm not sure you are at liberty to say what the site is about as you are one user amongst thousands. The site is about what the USERS think its about, regardless even of what Mike's intentions were. Again, I am not looking to be convinced-I am looking for a valid answer to the original question.

How do you create a deficit that big and still eat your calories?

Mayoclinic has analyzed the BL diet, and considering they are one of the most reputable health clinics in America, I hold their opinion with high regard. Its a great diet, according to their analysis. Its a healthy way to lose weight. Its a diet that SHOULD be followed. So your argument about it being a show is irrelevant. Because the diet and the concept is real, apart from the show.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THIS SITE ARE 35% over body fat. So, perhaps, in ALL OF THE POSTS THAT ARE YOURS, you should specify where the body fat % should be in order to be required to eat your calories back. I dont mean to be rude, but your post starts off argumentative and that was totally unecessary. For someone that didnt know what else to say, you sure said a lot.

My OP was not meant to offend anyone, especially you. And with no disrepect, there are trainers that argue both sides of the issue. I just want an answer to the question: HOW DO YOU CREATE A LARGER DEFICIT IF YOU ARE EATING BACK YOUR CALORIES???

See this is why I asked what you were looking for...because the way you worded your original post it sounded like you WANTED peoples oppinions on eating vs not eating...he was giving his side and if you think that his response was argumentative....sorry but you need to get out into the real world more..... He was being totally respectful and honest...THIS is why I said you should be careful of how you worded it because at least if you were just asking for back up on your oppinion of not eating it...then he would have know to not post a response at all!!!!!

For the record, Banks is a great source of information and I do not mean to tarnish his credibility.

However, I do not learn by having ideas pushed on me. He has done his research, as have I, and apparently, we dont agree. He is a trainer and I am not. That can be taken as it may. However, I have another trainer that says you should not. So that kinda deflates the "trainer knows all" idea.

I learn by understanding the common sense answers. Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one.

Banks, I apologize if offended you. I felt offended as well.

In the end, I still do not UNDERSTAND how to create a larger deficit with eating your exercise calories back.

KatWood

Because sure I want to be healthy and maintain the loss, but what's wrong with getting there faster? And there will be people who will judge that for being shallow but I dont think there is one person on this site that hasnt hoped that the weight would just go away! Overnight!

Banks is a great source but when someone starts a post with "Well, I dont know what else to say to you", I do not think that is supportive, motivating or educational. I dont want to hear biased opinions or be questioned on why I would want to create a larger deficit. The answer to that is obvious. I want an answer to the original question. Not an argument. Not a debate. SUPPORTIVE, EDUCATIONAL and MOTIVATIONAL ANSWERS.

Ok. Well the answer is simple then. Eat less calories and burn more. You will lose weight faster and as long as you are aware of the risks associated with it, then it is certainly your choice to make. I think it is a matter of priorities. I completely understand wanting the weight to be gone overnight, but for me being healthy and satisifed is more important.
Please keep in mind all these posts come with the best intentions.

karmasBFF

To answer your question, "How do you create a deficit that big and still eat your calories?", I say you DON'T eat the exercise calories, common sense and of course the purpose of your post!

Some people use this site for being "healthy, fit, toned" etc., while others actually want to lose a great deal of weight. For the ones wanting to lose a lot and in a timely fashion, it would be nonsensical to eat exercise calories. I stand by the saying of having everything in moderation, but AFTER you have reached your goal. Even when you reach maintenance level, you still have to be aware of everything you eat, that's the only way to be lastingly successful.

Thank you! It seems that if someone ACTUALLY ADMITS that they want to be skinny and think the health aspect is a perk, they get badgered. Thank you for that. Thank you, thank you, thank you for letting me know I can be honest about my reasons for being here! I want to be healthy, but I ultimately joined because I dont want to be fat.

Laceylala

Simple - Calories in vs. Calories out!

There is a section in the book that has quoted statements from previous contestants and one of them says that exactly. "Simple- Calories in vs Calories Out". I wont post all of it as I dont want to infringe on copyright but basically he says he eats what his weight x 6 is and burns as many calories as he can. Being a previous contestant and having worked directly with Jillian, Bob and the Drs, I would think its safe to assume he learned this from them.

Which means all the arguments about eating them back are invalid. Right?

Don't you think that by "burning as many calories as he can" though must most likely mean in the BL range of last chance work out calorie burns? Maybe burning my daily 400-700 cals can't be compared to what burning 3500 a day would do to your body? I don't know...

karmasBFF

I dont want the posts that direct me to the posts I've already read. They are not based on fact or research. They are posted by users just like me and you. Many of them are biased, or from studies that may be biased themselves.

I want a simple answer to a simple question: HOW DO YOU CREATE A LARGERE DEFICIT IF YOU ARE EATING YOUR CALORIES BACK?

There is no simple answer. I think that is point.
And any responses you receive will be based on studies and opinons and you will have no way of knowing whether they are biased or not. And it is insulting to imply that all the posts you have read are not based on fact or research. There are some very knowledgable people on this site who are willing to lend their support and expertise. They just may not be giving you the answer you want to hear. I'm not saying you shouldn't take things with a grain of salt and do your own research and make up your own mind. That is important. But I think you are asking for an answer no one will be able to give to your satisfaction.

You bring up a very valid point. I do not mean to imply that they are not based on fact or research, only saying they are interpretation of research. Unfortunately, I think you are right. I do not have a way of knowing what is TRULY based on fact and not someone's interpretation of fact. That's disheartening.

karmasBFF

Because sure I want to be healthy and maintain the loss, but what's wrong with getting there faster? And there will be people who will judge that for being shallow but I dont think there is one person on this site that hasnt hoped that the weight would just go away! Overnight!

Banks is a great source but when someone starts a post with "Well, I dont know what else to say to you", I do not think that is supportive, motivating or educational. I dont want to hear biased opinions or be questioned on why I would want to create a larger deficit. The answer to that is obvious. I want an answer to the original question. Not an argument. Not a debate. SUPPORTIVE, EDUCATIONAL and MOTIVATIONAL ANSWERS.

Ok. Well the answer is simple then. Eat less calories and burn more. You will lose weight faster and as long as you are aware of the risks associated with it, then it is certainly your choice to make. I think it is a matter of priorities. I completely understand wanting the weight to be gone overnight, but for me being healthy and satisifed is more important.
Please keep in mind all these posts come with the best intentions.

KatWood,

Thank you for your posts. I have been a part of many great debates on here and I do not apologize for that. Touchy subjects make people think. and that is a great thing! I appreciate your honesty and your ability to discuss respectfully. I didnt get the answer to my question, but I did learn something about communication today!

karmasBFF

Simple - Calories in vs. Calories out!

There is a section in the book that has quoted statements from previous contestants and one of them says that exactly. "Simple- Calories in vs Calories Out". I wont post all of it as I dont want to infringe on copyright but basically he says he eats what his weight x 6 is and burns as many calories as he can. Being a previous contestant and having worked directly with Jillian, Bob and the Drs, I would think its safe to assume he learned this from them.

Which means all the arguments about eating them back are invalid. Right?

Don't you think that by "burning as many calories as he can" though must most likely mean in the BL range of last chance work out calorie burns? Maybe burning my daily 400-700 cals can't be compared to what burning 3500 a day would do to your body? I don't know...

Not sure, exactly. He was talking about what he does now to continue to lose weight after he left the show. I guess the idea I was trying to point out was that he was eating his recommended based off of 6xlbs and burning calories. But I guess just because he doesnt mention exercise calories doesnt necessarily lead to an implication of how he handles them.