Vegan therories at 3 in the morning.
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It doesn't seem a bit off to me at all since humans are also the only species capable of digesting milk past infancy. Genetic studies have shown that the loss of lactose intolerance spread along the same pattern as the development of agriculture. In other words, the ability to digest milk is genetically advantageous in a settled population, probably because it allows humans to survive in otherwise lean times (say, when the crops fail or in the winter).
In other words, the same agriculture that allows you to eschew meat and dairy could only develop BECAUSE humans started to drink milk.
Of course, I think it's ironic that someone who eats raw vegan is saying dairy is unnatural when it has been shown repeatedly that an all-raw diet inevitably leads to malnutrition because of the sheer amount of effort it takes the human body to digest it.
Edit: Fun fact: Scientists now also believe that cooking food is what allowed humans to evolve their enormous brain capacity.
I know a few people that are completely RAW, but they also consume raw dairy and meat along with raw nuts, seeds, vegetables and fruit.
A raw vegan I can not fathom getting enough nutrition to sustain life properly0 -
LOL yeah another milky post. For more information and mind blowing facts see my past posts. Cause if I say it it's right. Well youve got 8 essesential amino acids to chose from and some conditional. I'm all excited to see....0
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I truly don't understand the vast amounts of people who promote the use of egg whites and whey in everything.
Am I the only one here that realizes there are far healthier forms of protein that work just as well, if not better?
As you didn't give any examples I'll ask for one...
What works just as well in scrambled eggs than eggs?
Has anyone else notices we're the ONLY species that drinks milk past the 1 year mark? Does that not seem a bit off to you?
We are the only species that produces food as well. Think about that and pop it in an argument...0 -
Elephants wean between 5 and 10 YEARS. That would mean that no, not all animal species wean from milk within a year. There are plenty of human babies that don't wean until they are 2-5 years of age. There are also plenty of animals, that if you put a bowl of milk (from any species) in front of them, they will gladly lap it up. Wrong theory is wrong.0
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A raw vegan I can not fathom getting enough nutrition to sustain life properly
There are plenty of them actually. One in particular I know very well, and she eats mostly only fruit.
She is vibrant, beautiful, and full of energy.
Just because it is counter-intuitive to the lifestyle you have chosen doesn't mean it is not possible.0 -
You didn't mention flush toilets! WTF is up with those?? Every other animal ****s and pisses outside. They don't use no stupid toilet paper. Here we are chopping down trees so we can produce toilet paper just so the toilet paper moguls can get stinkin rich off our perverted desire to wipe our *kitten* clean.0
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Cow's milk is made for cows. Human milk is made for humans. If your going to drink milk that's for helping infants grow can't you at least drink it from your own species? Hell, cows and humans are in totally different families. The genetic make up of their milk is far different.
Well, meat eaters should only eat each other then, following that logic. So, ummmmm...yeah.
Nutritional value is not species driven. All animals and mamals can live off the land, which provides for us. Meats and veggies of varying value.
Anywho....I like cake.0 -
The problem with being Vegan is that you can ONLY get vitamin b12 from animal sources. You HAVE to supplement a vegan diet with B12 or you will eventually become very ill indeed. Humans are carnivores - I respect the vegan ethic, but we're not designed to eat in that fashion for any length of time.
B-12 comes from bacteria, not meat technically. There are arguments that due to the cleanliness of the modern diet, the only way to get the B-12 is synthetically or from meat, but that's not by "natural design." (At my doctor's appointment recently, she wanted to run a blood test because my B-12 on my last test was overly high, apparently. I realize this may be evidence that I do a terribly lazy job of washing my fruits and veggies.)
However, while I appreciate your passion, SB, these arguments don't end well and don't do anything to promote the vegan lifestyle. It's so rare to convince anyone through criticizing the way they eat.
Are you a vegan? And how long have you been a vegan. Curious if it is actually your dirty vegetables or do you just have sufficient stores of B12 in your liver.0 -
I has been vegan for 11 years. I will tell ya something, by the time you been vegan over a decade, you are bored to tears of these dicsussions.
Lead by example, with sound logical reasons for your choices. Do not get high and mighty.
Ain't no one ever said "I went vegan after meeting an annoyingly self-righteous vegan."0 -
ps. this donut is TOTALLY not vegan. But if you want a great vegan donut for Fastnacht day, go to Voodoo Donuts in Portland, Or. YUM.0
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I have yet to see a convincing study that milk, taken in context of a balanced diet is 'bad for you', and I have looked.
That could be because funding it would be a major problem. Dairy industry is like the mob when it comes to advertising and marketing.
Child car seats have been PROVEN to be no better than a normal seat belt after the age of 2 years, but no one in the industry will say so b/c their funding loss potential.
Here is a Ted Talk from Jamie Oliver.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go_QOzc79Uc
We eat more meat now, we eat more sugar, more processed foods than ever before. We are also lowering our life expectancy through our diets. Ignorance is whats keeping these "junk food" companies afloat.
Dude! Ok, I know the food industry is corrupt, but have you seen a 2year old in a normal seat belt?!
My kids are in one of the top of the line car seats. The company voluntarily does crash tests with their carseats.
There are rave reviews from people who've been in bad accidents with them.
I've heard so many stories over the years of kids being projected from cars during car accidents, because they weren't in a carseat, or weren't buckled in correctly.
And I'm talking about locally.
*SMH
**Just wanted to add, a little girl almost 3yrs old died in a car accident down the street from my house about 3wks ago.
She was in a booster seat, and was not big enough to be in it.
Because she did not have the snugness of a 5 point harness her little body was thrown around like a rag doll.
The accident wasn't even that bad. The dad didn't even have a scratch.
I'll pass you this link. I think you really don't understand... The point is that those companies DO pay and test the car seats, but you can't test the car seats and say they are the best if you don't test the alternative. You write this as if they were in a car seat, they would have lived.
Try to open your mind for a few mins, and watch this video. the evidence is nicely laid out, and explains why many people think the way you do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5gMZcZWm0
You can SYH all you want, but you'd be doing it despite your best intentions. They even explain how hard it was to get a crash facility to allow testing without child car seats due to having their funding removed. It's a feel good law, not one based on evidence and research.
sMh.0 -
Humans are NOT adapted for a vegetarian diet. Humans would not have even evolved on a vegetarian diet. In fact, there are not very many vegetarian primates. Contrary to the popular belief of vegans, gorillas are not vegetarians, they eat insects. In fact there's a rule about primate brain size, vegetarian = smaller brain, animal protein = bigger brains.
. . .
So if you want to claim that milk is unnatural in the human diet because humans have adopted it only recently, well the same is true, in fact even more true, of the production of large quantities of plant protein. The fact that humans *can* live entirely off of plant protein, is evidence of just how adaptable humans are, and I don't have a problem with anyone who does not want to eat animal products. However to try to claim that veganism is more natural for humans than eating meat is ridiculous, unless you have the brain the size of a small monkey!! (which you don't have...)
Sorry, cut part of your quote out for brevity, but just wanted to say
:flowerforyou:
You can lead a donkey to water, but you can't make them drink. Some people will ALWAYS stay dumb despite scientific evidence out there. I bet you guy's don't even believe in evolution. Honestly, the evidence is there kids. According to science and biology, you're wrong. Doesn't matter what you or me "believe".0 -
Why pass this up? If you truly believe we are designed to eat meat, why don't you refute the comments below?
Copy and pasted my original post on here :
I eat meat, however you are VERY wrong. I'll list the ways.
1. Vitamin B12 does not come from an animal source. It is ingested by the animal, so technically you are getting second hand B12. It actually comes from bacteria from dirt. The animals get it b/c they don't wash their food before eating them. B12 can also stay in your system for YEARS, so if you were to get a supplement, having one pill every few months would be fine.
2. Humans are not carnivores at all. In fact our bodys are designed EXACTLY like herbivores.
Here is what we share with herbivores that carnivores do not.
- Our intestines - carnivores & omnivores 3-6 times body length, herbivores(and humans) 10-12 times their body length
- Our saliva. Carnivores do not produce saliva to aid in digesting food
- K9's. Our K9's are similar to other herbivores K9's, not carnivores K9's (or teeth in general.
- facial muscles - carnivores have reduced facial muscles to allow for wide mouth gape, we along with herbivores do not. (along with multiple other "jaw" reasons
- chewing - carnivores swallow whole (or don't chew they tear), humans need extensive chewing - just like herbivores.
- Stomach acidity - Carnivores and omnivores PH1 or lower, in humans PH 4-5 same as herbivores
- colon - simple, short and smooth in carnivores and omnivores. Herbivores - long, complex and sacculated
- liver - carnivores can detoxify Vitamin A - herbivores and humans can not.
- kidney - extremely concentrated urine in carnivores and omnivores. In herbivores and humans it's moderately concentrated urine
- nails - carnivores and omnivores their nails are actually sharp claws. In herbivores and humans - flattened nails or hooves.
You would have been just slightly less wrong if you said we were omnivores, but still wrong.
Even apes who eat meat are still 98% vegetarian. btw you can add omnivores to any of the carnivore list I did not - they apply, I just got lazy.0 -
Sorry about my tone. My pet peeve is people who just write their opinions with no real solid evidence and try to pass it off as fact while putting the others (who've done their research down) and STH's.0
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Um, carnivores do have saliva (have you never been around a dog?) Also, human stomach acid has a pH of 1, not 4 or 5. We are omnivores, and we have evolved as omnivores, we've been eating meat and cooking food for millions of years.The problem with being Vegan is that you can ONLY get vitamin b12 from animal sources. You HAVE to supplement a vegan diet with B12 or you will eventually become very ill indeed. Humans are carnivores - I respect the vegan ethic, but we're not designed to eat in that fashion for any length of time.
I eat meat, however you are VERY wrong. I'll list the ways.
1. Vitamin B12 does not come from an animal source. It is ingested by the animal, so technically you are getting second hand B12. It actually comes from bacteria from dirt. The animals get it b/c they don't wash their food before eating them. B12 can also stay in your system for YEARS, so if you were to get a supplement, having one pill every few months would be fine.
2. Humans are not carnivores at all. In fact our bodys are designed EXACTLY like herbivores.
Here is what we share with herbivores that carnivores do not.
- Our intestines - carnivores & omnivores 3-6 times body length, herbivores(and humans) 10-12 times their body length
- Our saliva. Carnivores do not produce saliva to aid in digesting food
- K9's. Our K9's are similar to other herbivores K9's, not carnivores K9's (or teeth in general.
- facial muscles - carnivores have reduced facial muscles to allow for wide mouth gape, we along with herbivores do not. (along with multiple other "jaw" reasons
- chewing - carnivores swallow whole (or don't chew they tear), humans need extensive chewing - just like herbivores.
- Stomach acidity - Carnivores and omnivores PH1 or lower, in humans PH 4-5 same as herbivores
- colon - simple, short and smooth in carnivores and omnivores. Herbivores - long, complex and sacculated
- liver - carnivores can detoxify Vitamin A - herbivores and humans can not.
- kidney - extremely concentrated urine in carnivores and omnivores. In herbivores and humans it's moderately concentrated urine
- nails - carnivores and omnivores their nails are actually sharp claws. In herbivores and humans - flattened nails or hooves.
You would have been just slightly less wrong if you said we were omnivores, but still wrong.
Even apes who eat meat are still 98% vegetarian. btw you can add omnivores to any of the carnivore list I did not - they apply, I just got lazy.
As post are being reposted intra-thread.....0 -
Um, carnivores do have saliva (have you never been around a dog?) Also, human stomach acid has a pH of 1, not 4 or 5. We are omnivores, and we have evolved as omnivores, we've been eating meat and cooking food for millions of years.The problem with being Vegan is that you can ONLY get vitamin b12 from animal sources. You HAVE to supplement a vegan diet with B12 or you will eventually become very ill indeed. Humans are carnivores - I respect the vegan ethic, but we're not designed to eat in that fashion for any length of time.
I eat meat, however you are VERY wrong. I'll list the ways.
1. Vitamin B12 does not come from an animal source. It is ingested by the animal, so technically you are getting second hand B12. It actually comes from bacteria from dirt. The animals get it b/c they don't wash their food before eating them. B12 can also stay in your system for YEARS, so if you were to get a supplement, having one pill every few months would be fine.
2. Humans are not carnivores at all. In fact our bodys are designed EXACTLY like herbivores.
Here is what we share with herbivores that carnivores do not.
- Our intestines - carnivores & omnivores 3-6 times body length, herbivores(and humans) 10-12 times their body length
- Our saliva. Carnivores do not produce saliva to aid in digesting food
- K9's. Our K9's are similar to other herbivores K9's, not carnivores K9's (or teeth in general.
- facial muscles - carnivores have reduced facial muscles to allow for wide mouth gape, we along with herbivores do not. (along with multiple other "jaw" reasons
- chewing - carnivores swallow whole (or don't chew they tear), humans need extensive chewing - just like herbivores.
- Stomach acidity - Carnivores and omnivores PH1 or lower, in humans PH 4-5 same as herbivores
- colon - simple, short and smooth in carnivores and omnivores. Herbivores - long, complex and sacculated
- liver - carnivores can detoxify Vitamin A - herbivores and humans can not.
- kidney - extremely concentrated urine in carnivores and omnivores. In herbivores and humans it's moderately concentrated urine
- nails - carnivores and omnivores their nails are actually sharp claws. In herbivores and humans - flattened nails or hooves.
You would have been just slightly less wrong if you said we were omnivores, but still wrong.
Even apes who eat meat are still 98% vegetarian. btw you can add omnivores to any of the carnivore list I did not - they apply, I just got lazy.
Let me explain... Dogs to have saliva but DO NOT have digestive enzymes in their saliva like herbivores and humans do. Thats the difference with herbivores and carnivores/omnivores in relation to saliva.
About the PH -
Stomach Acidity
CARNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HERBIVORE: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
OMNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HUMAN: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
Stomach Capacity
CARNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HERBIVORE: Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
OMNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HUMAN: 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract
I forgot to mention when there was food in the stomach, not empty.0 -
Sorry about my tone. My pet peeve is people who just write their opinions with no real solid evidence and try to pass it off as fact while putting the others (who've done their research down) and STH's.
LOL
pot
kettle
black
SMH0 -
Um, carnivores do have saliva (have you never been around a dog?) Also, human stomach acid has a pH of 1, not 4 or 5. We are omnivores, and we have evolved as omnivores, we've been eating meat and cooking food for millions of years.The problem with being Vegan is that you can ONLY get vitamin b12 from animal sources. You HAVE to supplement a vegan diet with B12 or you will eventually become very ill indeed. Humans are carnivores - I respect the vegan ethic, but we're not designed to eat in that fashion for any length of time.
I eat meat, however you are VERY wrong. I'll list the ways.
1. Vitamin B12 does not come from an animal source. It is ingested by the animal, so technically you are getting second hand B12. It actually comes from bacteria from dirt. The animals get it b/c they don't wash their food before eating them. B12 can also stay in your system for YEARS, so if you were to get a supplement, having one pill every few months would be fine.
2. Humans are not carnivores at all. In fact our bodys are designed EXACTLY like herbivores.
Here is what we share with herbivores that carnivores do not.
- Our intestines - carnivores & omnivores 3-6 times body length, herbivores(and humans) 10-12 times their body length
- Our saliva. Carnivores do not produce saliva to aid in digesting food
- K9's. Our K9's are similar to other herbivores K9's, not carnivores K9's (or teeth in general.
- facial muscles - carnivores have reduced facial muscles to allow for wide mouth gape, we along with herbivores do not. (along with multiple other "jaw" reasons
- chewing - carnivores swallow whole (or don't chew they tear), humans need extensive chewing - just like herbivores.
- Stomach acidity - Carnivores and omnivores PH1 or lower, in humans PH 4-5 same as herbivores
- colon - simple, short and smooth in carnivores and omnivores. Herbivores - long, complex and sacculated
- liver - carnivores can detoxify Vitamin A - herbivores and humans can not.
- kidney - extremely concentrated urine in carnivores and omnivores. In herbivores and humans it's moderately concentrated urine
- nails - carnivores and omnivores their nails are actually sharp claws. In herbivores and humans - flattened nails or hooves.
You would have been just slightly less wrong if you said we were omnivores, but still wrong.
Even apes who eat meat are still 98% vegetarian. btw you can add omnivores to any of the carnivore list I did not - they apply, I just got lazy.
Let me explain... Dogs to have saliva but DO NOT have digestive enzymes in their saliva like herbivores and humans do. Thats the difference with herbivores and carnivores/omnivores in relation to saliva.
About the PH -
Stomach Acidity
CARNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HERBIVORE: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
OMNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HUMAN: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
Stomach Capacity
CARNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HERBIVORE: Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
OMNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HUMAN: 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract
I forgot to mention when there was food in the stomach, not empty.
You said that dogs/carnivores have a stoamch PH of less than 1. Humans havea higher PH and therefore humans are not carnivores.
But there can be other factors at play.
This article states that when a dog is fed processed food with higher carbs, their stomach PH shoots up to about 4. So what is it? does the stomach acid indicate what we should eat? Or does the stomach acid respond to what we are eating?
which witch is which???
http://www.vetsallnatural.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=107&Itemid=113
ETA: here's the direct quote from the article: "In dogs and cats that eat these diets with high carbohydrate, high plant protein and lower meat protein, we find that the acidity level of the stomach begins to decrease (gastric acidity relates to meat protein), and the stomach becomes progressively more alkaline (PH 4 and above)."0 -
Humans are NOT adapted for a vegetarian diet. Humans would not have even evolved on a vegetarian diet. In fact, there are not very many vegetarian primates. Contrary to the popular belief of vegans, gorillas are not vegetarians, they eat insects. In fact there's a rule about primate brain size, vegetarian = smaller brain, animal protein = bigger brains.
the great apes are the largest brained of the primates (scientifically speaking, humans are a kind of great ape). no great apes are vegetarian, they are all omnivores. The largest brained great apes hunt and eat meat. Chimpanzees hunt and eat small monkeys, and they also eat a lot of insects. Humans hunt and eat large animals and in the last 10,000 years many have farmed animals as well as hunting them.
There is no species of human that ate a vegetarian diet. Even australopithecines are most likely to have had a similar diet to a chimpanzee, i.e. hunting small animals and eating insects as part of an omnivorous diet. (yes the robust australopithecines may have been adapted for more plant foods and less animal protein, but a) they're not our ancestors and b) they had smaller brains than gracile australopithecines of which some were our ancestors, and Australopithecus gahri had stone tools similar to Homo habilis, which suggests a diet similar to Homo habilis, and this species (A. gahri) is believed to be directly ancestral to all humans)
Homo habilis - scavenged lion kill, smashing up the bones to extract the bone marrow, after the lions had finished with it.
Homo erectus/ergaster - seems to have eaten scavenged meat more than hunted meat, probably did not know how to use fire. was believed to hunt by running animals into the ground (a similar technique to the !kung people of the Kalahari, but without the sophisticated weapons they have, just sticks and stones)
Homo heidelbergensis - a recent discovery of a stone tipped spear made by this species suggests that they hunted in a similar way to the neanderthals. they probably had fire.
Homo neanderthalensis - co-operatively hunted very large animals with stone tipped spears, they wore clothes made from the skins of the animals they ate. They used fire and ate cooked meat and cooked plant foods. they are not directly ancestral to us, however middle palaeolithic Homo sapiens had a very similar culture and very similar stone tools
Homo sapiens idaltu - they hunted and ate hippos, likely using similar techinques and weapons to neanderthals. therefore they likely had a similar culture to neanderthals i.e. controlled use of fire, cooking meat and probably plant foods too, possibly making clothes (although as they lived in a much hotter climate than the neanderthals they may not have done, but could still have used animal skins for other puroses, e.g. blankets, baby carriers etc)
upper palaeolithic Homo sapiens sapiens - developed much more sophisticated weapons for hunting animals, and also developed the ability to fish (i.e. making fish hooks, bows and arrows, atlatl (spearthrowers), and similar). they ate meat and fish. (neanderthals seem to have only eaten meat and not fish and only had short range hunting weapons like thrusting spears, neanderthals went extinct about 10,000 years after upper palaeolithic H. sapiens sapiens arrived in Europe)
neolithic homo sapiens sapiens - developed the ability to farm plants and animals. Populations where dairy herding/farming was common have evolved the ability to digest lactose after early childhood, and human populations learned to produce high protein plant food in sufficient quantities for humans to have less need of meat. Basically, neolithic populations adapted to the food that they could produce in the areas where they lived, this is only small changes in the digestive system, e.g. lactase enzyme persisting after childhood. neurologically speaking we're still the same as upper palaeolithic homo sapiens sapiens
Basically - the more meat humans (and australopithecines) ate, the bigger their brains got. The bigger their brains got, the better they got at hunting animals and cooking meat. H.sapiens sapiens has a slightly smaller brain than H. neanderthalensis had, but also probably ate less meat than them, plus they ate fish. But you're talking differences in macronutrient ratios, not the absence of animal products in the diet. H. sapiens sapiens ate meat and fish, and modern hunter gatherers have a high protein diet (like 80g+ a day, more for arctic populations) and most of the protein comes from meat or fish.
So where does vegetarianism fit into it? Well it's equally as natural in the human diet as drinking milk is, i.e. something that was only possible in post-neolithic populations. Prior to that, humans needed to eat meat and could not digest lactose. Without agriculture, humans can't get enough protein to live entirely off plant foods. Even that is not possible everywhere in the world, because high protein plant foods like soya and lentils don't grow everywhere. You need a post-industrial infrastructure to be able to import high protein plant foods from other parts of the world. Veganism is not even post-neolithic for many people, it's post-industrial.
So if you want to claim that milk is unnatural in the human diet because humans have adopted it only recently, well the same is true, in fact even more true, of the production of large quantities of plant protein. The fact that humans *can* live entirely off of plant protein, is evidence of just how adaptable humans are, and I don't have a problem with anyone who does not want to eat animal products. However to try to claim that veganism is more natural for humans than eating meat is ridiculous, unless you have the brain the size of a small monkey!! (which you don't have...)
jjrichard, let me get this straight. You think the person who wrote the above does not believe in evolution?
Seems legit.0 -
Um, carnivores do have saliva (have you never been around a dog?) Also, human stomach acid has a pH of 1, not 4 or 5. We are omnivores, and we have evolved as omnivores, we've been eating meat and cooking food for millions of years.The problem with being Vegan is that you can ONLY get vitamin b12 from animal sources. You HAVE to supplement a vegan diet with B12 or you will eventually become very ill indeed. Humans are carnivores - I respect the vegan ethic, but we're not designed to eat in that fashion for any length of time.
I eat meat, however you are VERY wrong. I'll list the ways.
1. Vitamin B12 does not come from an animal source. It is ingested by the animal, so technically you are getting second hand B12. It actually comes from bacteria from dirt. The animals get it b/c they don't wash their food before eating them. B12 can also stay in your system for YEARS, so if you were to get a supplement, having one pill every few months would be fine.
2. Humans are not carnivores at all. In fact our bodys are designed EXACTLY like herbivores.
Here is what we share with herbivores that carnivores do not.
- Our intestines - carnivores & omnivores 3-6 times body length, herbivores(and humans) 10-12 times their body length
- Our saliva. Carnivores do not produce saliva to aid in digesting food
- K9's. Our K9's are similar to other herbivores K9's, not carnivores K9's (or teeth in general.
- facial muscles - carnivores have reduced facial muscles to allow for wide mouth gape, we along with herbivores do not. (along with multiple other "jaw" reasons
- chewing - carnivores swallow whole (or don't chew they tear), humans need extensive chewing - just like herbivores.
- Stomach acidity - Carnivores and omnivores PH1 or lower, in humans PH 4-5 same as herbivores
- colon - simple, short and smooth in carnivores and omnivores. Herbivores - long, complex and sacculated
- liver - carnivores can detoxify Vitamin A - herbivores and humans can not.
- kidney - extremely concentrated urine in carnivores and omnivores. In herbivores and humans it's moderately concentrated urine
- nails - carnivores and omnivores their nails are actually sharp claws. In herbivores and humans - flattened nails or hooves.
You would have been just slightly less wrong if you said we were omnivores, but still wrong.
Even apes who eat meat are still 98% vegetarian. btw you can add omnivores to any of the carnivore list I did not - they apply, I just got lazy.
Let me explain... Dogs to have saliva but DO NOT have digestive enzymes in their saliva like herbivores and humans do. Thats the difference with herbivores and carnivores/omnivores in relation to saliva.
About the PH -
Stomach Acidity
CARNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HERBIVORE: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
OMNIVORE: Less than or equal to pH 1 with food in stomach
HUMAN: pH 4 to 5 with food in stomach
Stomach Capacity
CARNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HERBIVORE: Less than 30% of total volume of digestive tract
OMNIVORE: 60% to 70% of total volume of digestive tract
HUMAN: 21% to 27% of total volume of digestive tract
I forgot to mention when there was food in the stomach, not empty.
You said that dogs/carnivores have a stoamch PH of less than 1. Humans havea higher PH and therefore humans are not carnivores.
But there can be other factors at play.
This article states that when a dog is fed processed food with higher carbs, their stomach PH shoots up to about 4. So what is it? does the stomach acid indicate what we should eat? Or does the stomach acid respond to what we are eating?
which witch is which???
http://www.vetsallnatural.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=107&Itemid=113
ETA: here's the direct quote from the article: "In dogs and cats that eat these diets with high carbohydrate, high plant protein and lower meat protein, we find that the acidity level of the stomach begins to decrease (gastric acidity relates to meat protein), and the stomach becomes progressively more alkaline (PH 4 and above)."
they are not eating their normal diet if it's high in carbs. there would be filler in the diet for that to happen. Dogs are carnivores and shouldn't be fed food with grain filler in it.
I think it's wrong to feed your pets diets that do not come naturally to them. this results in all kinds of complications in the animals (not all, but many). If an animal is a carnivore, spend the extra money and get the grain free products for them!0 -
they are not eating their normal diet if it's high in carbs. there would be filler in the diet for that to happen. Dogs are carnivores and shouldn't be fed food with grain filler in it.
I think it's wrong to feed your pets diets that do not come naturally to them. this results in all kinds of complications in the animals (not all, but many). If an animal is a carnivore, spend the extra money and get the grain free products for them!
You are missing the point. The point is that you are using our stomach Ph as evidence of what we *should* be eating, and I'm telling you that our stomach acids respond to what we are eating. It's like a chicken or egg argument.0 -
they are not eating their normal diet if it's high in carbs. there would be filler in the diet for that to happen. Dogs are carnivores and shouldn't be fed food with grain filler in it.
I think it's wrong to feed your pets diets that do not come naturally to them. this results in all kinds of complications in the animals (not all, but many). If an animal is a carnivore, spend the extra money and get the grain free products for them!
You are missing the point. The point is that you are using our stomach Ph as evidence of what we *should* be eating, and I'm telling you that our stomach acids respond to what we are eating. It's like a chicken or egg argument.
You're missing the point. A high end BMW can use 89 octane in the car if need be, but for best performance it needs 91 octane or higher. We are talking about "best" not "acceptable".0 -
You probably shouldn't post at 3am.0
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Look! A butterfly!!! *runs off into left field*0
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OP: You don't want to drink dairy or eat eggs, fine. No one is making you. I'm also vegan but making a rant post to pick fights isn't going to change anyone's mind. Better to lead by example. Show people how great you feel not eating animal foods, don't lecture them. How well has that worked out for you in the past?0
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, go to Voodoo Donuts in Portland, Or. YUM.
THIS. !!!!0 -
, go to Voodoo Donuts in Portland, Or. YUM.
THIS. !!!!
We should have an MFP meet up at voodoo for Fastnacht Day, 2014!0 -
I self-righteous vegetarians and vegans like the gentleman with the green shirt.
They always make me feel so much better about myself.0 -
Comparing us to animals that have completely different evolutionary paths isn't really 'good science' to my mind.0
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