Can't Build Muscle while at a Deficit - Revisited

strikerjb007

This leads me to believe I am getting stronger - hence building muscle.

This is the root of your misunderstanding. You can gain strength without building muscle. Gaining strength is based on neuromusular adaptation. An oversimplification is; you are recruiting existng muscle fibers and training your neuromuscular system to lift more weight. Thus get stronger. There is only a slight relationship with getting stronger and building muscle. At some point you would max out and not be able to get stronger without building more muscle tissue. (hypertrophy)

Building muscle is hypertrophy. You can do this and not nessesarily get stronger. (though you likely will slightly) This is an anabolic process, thus it requires a calorie surplus. When you are in calorie deficit, you are essentially in a catabolic state. Your body can perform anabolic functions in a catabolic state.

This.

I would like to add that it is possible but it's close to impossible for the most part. Or maybe I should say it's not easy.


Let's also make a distinction between GAINING MUSCLE and LOSING FAT. Many people think that they are gaining muscle but in reality, they are losing fat. Getting leaner will make you look bigger. That's why so many Hollywood celebrities concentrate on losing fat when they go for a big role.

mmapags

This leads me to believe I am getting stronger - hence building muscle.

This is the root of your misunderstanding. You can gain strength without building muscle. Gaining strength is based on neuromusular adaptation. An oversimplification is; you are recruiting existng muscle fibers and training your neuromuscular system to lift more weight. Thus get stronger. There is only a slight relationship with getting stronger and building muscle. At some point you would max out and not be able to get stronger without building more muscle tissue. (hypertrophy)

Building muscle is hypertrophy. You can do this and not nessesarily get stronger. (though you likely will slightly) This is an anabolic process, thus it requires a calorie surplus. When you are in calorie deficit, you are essentially in a catabolic state. Your body can perform anabolic functions in a catabolic state.

Damn you beat me to it. Congrats.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Lol! I learned this from the master!

mmapags

Just work out

First, thanks for all the kind words regarding my post. I guess even a blind squirrell finds an acorn once in whle.

Secondly, I agree with Dave. Other than the fact that some people are going to get hung up on this point and want to argue it, what real difference does it make? If you have too much body fat, you need to reduce it. Calorie deficit to lose fat and weight training to preserve lean muscle mass. Simple. So as Dave says, "Just work out."

If you are at a good fat level (around 18% to 20% for women, 12% to 15% for men) and you want to improve your physique and strength by adding lean muscle mass, do a bulk and add some muscle mass.

Most here are in the first category and, other than the fact that people can't seem to move forward mentally about it, it's academic really.

P05T5CRIPT

This is the root of your misunderstanding. You can gain strength without building muscle. Gaining strength is based on neuromusular adaptation. An oversimplification is; you are recruiting existng muscle fibers and training your neuromuscular system to lift more weight. Thus get stronger. There is only a slight relationship with getting stronger and building muscle. At some point you would max out and not be able to get stronger without building more muscle tissue. (hypertrophy)

Building muscle is hypertrophy. You can do this and not nessesarily get stronger. (though you likely will slightly) This is an anabolic process, thus it requires a calorie surplus. When you are in calorie deficit, you are essentially in a catabolic state. Your body can perform anabolic functions in a catabolic state.

Best post I've read on this, answered a few questions I had myself. I thank you kind sir :drinker:

Sarauk2sf

What is frustrating on these boards is how people stick to bad advice even when presented with actually scientific evidence. I don't know if being a couch potato disqualifies anyone from being a scientist. The facts are if you have stores of fat and are working out you can gain muscle and lose weight. The question was posed by someone who still wants to lose and additional 26 lbs. Although I cannot tabulate her BMI based on that I would bet it is close to 30 which is clinically obese. So yes she can gain muscle and lose weight. Why is this some kind of cult belief for you guys? I would clearly concede that if you have 10% BF you could not gain muscle on a deficit, but that is not the people on this site.

The fact that on a deficit you can, grow your hair, heal wounds and repair muscle, tells you you body can make cells while on a deficit. A healing wound and building of muscle is the same biological process.

Care to show the scientific evidence for a woman who is not obese?

ninerbuff

I see skinny dudes at the gym all the time eating about 1200 calories a day and gaining muscle. It's totally possible. Not probable, but possible.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Sarauk2sf

Just work out

First, thanks for all the kind words regarding my post. I guess even a blind squirrell finds an acorn once in whle.

Secondly, I agree with Dave. Other than the fact that some people are going to get hung up on this point and want to argue it, what real difference does it make? If you have too much body fat, you need to reduce it. Calorie deficit to lose fat and weight training to preserve lean muscle mass. Simple. So as Dave says, "Just work out."

If you are at a good fat level (around 18% to 20% for women, 12% to 15% for men) and you want to improve your physique and strength by adding lean muscle mass, do a bulk and add some muscle mass.

Most here are in the first category and, other than the fact that people can't seem to move forward mentally about it, it's academic really.

You 'da man'.

Also the benefits outside muscle gain/weight loss should be emphasized, such as strength, bone density and confidence.

mmapags

What is frustrating on these boards is how people stick to bad advice even when presented with actually scientific evidence. I don't know if being a couch potato disqualifies anyone from being a scientist. The facts are if you have stores of fat and are working out you can gain muscle and lose weight. The question was posed by someone who still wants to lose and additional 26 lbs. Although I cannot tabulate her BMI based on that I would bet it is close to 30 which is clinically obese. So yes she can gain muscle and lose weight. Why is this some kind of cult belief for you guys? I would clearly concede that if you have 10% BF you could not gain muscle on a deficit, but that is not the people on this site.

The fact that on a deficit you can, grow your hair, heal wounds and repair muscle, tells you you body can make cells while on a deficit. A healing wound and building of muscle is the same biological process.

Care to show the scientific evidence for a woman who is not obese?

Even for someone who is obese, the gains have a diminishing rate of return. It doesn't happen indefinitley. Lyle's thoughts on this:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

mmapags

Just work out

First, thanks for all the kind words regarding my post. I guess even a blind squirrell finds an acorn once in whle.

Secondly, I agree with Dave. Other than the fact that some people are going to get hung up on this point and want to argue it, what real difference does it make? If you have too much body fat, you need to reduce it. Calorie deficit to lose fat and weight training to preserve lean muscle mass. Simple. So as Dave says, "Just work out."

If you are at a good fat level (around 18% to 20% for women, 12% to 15% for men) and you want to improve your physique and strength by adding lean muscle mass, do a bulk and add some muscle mass.

Most here are in the first category and, other than the fact that people can't seem to move forward mentally about it, it's academic really.

You 'da man'.

Also the benefits outside muscle gain/weight loss should be emphasized, such as strength, bone density and confidence.

Heck yeah! To say nothing of looking sexier! :flowerforyou:

mdh185

Sarah did you seriously unfriend me because I disagreed with you on this topic. What is wrong with people here?

mmapags

Sarah did you seriously unfriend me because I disagreed with you on this topic. What is wrong with people here?

A forum thread is not the place for this discussion. Take this offline in a PM.

kcallas88

Very interesting info but these opinionated people need to stop fighting with each other

DavPul

Sarah did you seriously unfriend me because I disagreed with you on this topic. What is wrong with people here?

NovemberJune

Bump to read later!

No_Finish_Line

This is the root of your misunderstanding. You can gain strength without building muscle. Gaining strength is based on neuromusular adaptation. An oversimplification is; you are recruiting existng muscle fibers and training your neuromuscular system to lift more weight. Thus get stronger. There is only a slight relationship with getting stronger and building muscle. At some point you would max out and not be able to get stronger without building more muscle tissue. (hypertrophy)

Building muscle is hypertrophy. You can do this and not nessesarily get stronger. (though you likely will slightly) This is an anabolic process, thus it requires a calorie surplus. When you are in calorie deficit, you are essentially in a catabolic state. Your body can perform anabolic functions in a catabolic state.


mmapags - you are awesome. this is the bestestestest explanation ever!

yup.

id say even the intial strength gains when one begins lifting are primairly due to recruiting more of existing muslce fibers.

mmapags

Sarah did you seriously unfriend me because I disagreed with you on this topic. What is wrong with people here?

Lolz!! Most kller gif!

Summer_Lunatic

I will agree with the crowd that says you can't build a significant amount of muscle on a deficit.

The good news is, it's surprising how fast you CAN build muscle on a surplus. At least it APPEARS that way to me. I could be totally off in left field daydreaming about sex but ...

Mads1997

I think you can build strength without gaining muscle. I think for most people who say they have built muscle on a deficit is they actually lose weight which just allows the muscle to show through more than normal. I have been doing stronglifts, my strength has improved a great deal but my muscle mass has stayed the same.

SanteMulberry

This leads me to believe I am getting stronger - hence building muscle.

This is the root of your misunderstanding. You can gain strength without building muscle. Gaining strength is based on neuromusular adaptation. An oversimplification is; you are recruiting existng muscle fibers and training your neuromuscular system to lift more weight. Thus get stronger. There is only a slight relationship with getting stronger and building muscle. At some point you would max out and not be able to get stronger without building more muscle tissue. (hypertrophy)

Building muscle is hypertrophy. You can do this and not nessesarily get stronger. (though you likely will slightly) This is an anabolic process, thus it requires a calorie surplus. When you are in calorie deficit, you are essentially in a catabolic state. Your body can perform anabolic functions in a catabolic state.

"Your body can perform anabolic functions in a catabolic state." Did you mean this to say, "Your body CAN'T perform anabolic functions in a catabolic state." ? I'm confused.

NovemberJune

I see skinny dudes at the gym all the time eating about 1200 calories a day and gaining muscle. It's totally possible. Not probable, but possible.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

But if you see it all the time, it makes it sound probable....? But I guess you see a large sample of people so even seeing it happen all the time is still a very small %....?

Unless you are trying to get bouncer at the club levels of mass, for most people on mfp lifting in a deficit will give you the desired effect. You'll get stronger and you'll look better.

....

Just work out

I'm going to go with this. LOL.