General Comment About People Who Don't Lift

bcattoes

I realize you may not have read all the posts, but I did not suggest that weight lifting decreased flexibility. I suggested that a dancer who lifts weights would look different than someone who only lifts weight (without the other training that dancers require). Let's face it, if dancers didn't have a different look to their body, I highly doubt we'd be discussing how to get a dancers body.

Well a lot of people have asked just what "a dancer's body" really even means. There seems to be no answer. Look at the dancers on So You Think You Can Dance. Some of them look like bodybuilders, some of them look like the girl next door.

The simple fact is that you're wrong. You have false conceptions about the nature of human body, and instead of trying to listen and learn you are stubbornly sticking to these conceptions. What you say simply doesn't make sense.

Additionally there have been pictures of a dancer and lifter posted in this thread that show no distinction or difference.

I'm sorry but I've never seen So You Think You Can Dance. I wouldn't expect the differences to show as much in a still photo, though the poses chose suggest the difference. If you were to see two women in real life, one who was a dancer who lifted weights, and one who lifted weights as her only form of exercise, there would likely be a difference in they why they walked and moved. The dancer would be more lithe and graceful.

So they may move differently. Ok. For the third or fourth time, in what way would they LOOK differently. KatrinaWilkes who is a dancer has said they would not. You, who are not a dancer I believe, says they would. Yet, you can't seem to either demostrate how or alternatively, admit that you are mistaken. Pick one. Either one.

Actually KatrinaWilkes said the same thing I've been saying, when she said:

While in a way a dancers body would be more "lithe". That is because they stretch like crazy and train to look graceful.

bcattoes

A dancer who lifts, will look different that someone that only lifts.

In general the dancer would likely be more lithe.

I suggested that a dancer who lifts weights would look different than someone who only lifts weight (without the other training that dancers require). Let's face it, if dancers didn't have a different look to their body, I highly doubt we'd be discussing how to get a dancers body.

In case you forgot.

Forgot what?

weese17

Okay, this was bugging me so much that I actually got up from a nap to type this response.

When people say they want a "dancer's body," they typically mean a professional ballet dancer. The thing they forget is that there are many, many people who have aspired to become professional dancers but didn't make it because their genetics gave them a body that was incompatible with a ballet director's artistic vision. The dancers who make it are:

- Very long limbed, especially their legs
- Have long necks
- Have naturally good turnout
- Are more straight-up-and-down than apple or pear shaped
- (For women) - don't have boobs
- Naturally graceful in their movements
- Have small heads (Balanchine's pinheads, anyone?)
- Beautiful ankles and feet -- no cankles here.
- Musculature of a certain type
- EXTREMELY LOW BODY FAT. This part is essential!

Yes, these are generalizations and there are exceptions to the rule, but if you look at most pro ballet dancers, they fit this archetype to a T.




I look like a dancer - always have - because my body fits that type. I have no hips, no butt, no boobs, long legs, a loooong neck and am basically as straight up and down as a board. It's taken a lot of hard work to develop the waist that I have! If you are short-legged, stocky, have a short neck, a blocky head or cankles, YOU WON'T EVER LOOK LIKE A PRO DANCER. You can take all the barre classes you want, but you will NEVER look like Julie Kent or Wendy Whelan.

All this is beside the obvious point that dancers attain the physique they have by starting their training at an extremely early age (like 3 or 4 years old) and have trained for hours a day, every day of the week, for YEARS by the time you see them onstage.

If you are lucky enough to fit the physical type of a dancer, then yes, you can probably look like one if you put hours in at the barre. (Natalie Portman comes to mind.) But unless you do, it's pointless and self-defeating to hold up a professional dancer as a physique to aspire to.

/rant

Lucy

LorinaLynn

But a 5 lb dumbell or body weight, with correct form and many reps will do,the job.

Who has the time for that many reps?

In normal life, even before I started lifting, I'd regularly carry two 12 fridgemate packs of soda in one hand. That's about 18 pounds held by just my fingertips as I carry them from the car, across the yard, up the steps and into the house. A gallon jug of milk is 8 pounds, a big jug of laundry detergent about the same. A big bag of cat or dog food is 15-20 pounds. A box/bucket of cat litter is 25-40 pounds. My dog is getting older, and sometimes needs to be carried up the steps. He's about 20 pounds. My smallest cat is 9 pounds, the largest about 15.

So how exactly is something that weighs the same as a bag of sugar supposed to challenge my muscles?

bcattoes

I'm sorry but I've never seen So You Think You Can Dance. I wouldn't expect the differences to show as much in a still photo, though the poses chose suggest the difference. If you were to see two women in real life, one who was a dancer who lifted weights, and one who lifted weights as her only form of exercise, there would likely be a difference in they why they walked and moved. The dancer would be more lithe and graceful.

Oh, so they don't LOOK different, you're saying that the dancer would walk differently.

I see....

Oh, so you are talking about photos? Sorry, I was talking about people.

Oh give me a break. This is an obvious attempt to backtrack and CYA. You said they would look different, and are now conceding that they won't look different but will, perhaps, move differently. You are fooling no one.

The strong person admits when they are wrong; the weak person tries to make it look like they were right all along.

I never said they wouldn't look different. I believe they do and have always said so. The fact that it's more noticable in life than in a pic is really just common sense. This is getting silly, what is your point exactly? I see differences. Do you think if you repeatedly tell me I don't, that I suddenly won't?

Sarauk2sf

Big reasons include osteoperosis prevention, injury prevention (just preventing injuries from regular activity or other sports), and better metabolic function (blood sugar, for example, is better stabilized by people who resis.tance train). Also, better flexibility, joint mobility, and decreased pain (like for people with chronic lower back pain)

But do whatever you want. Your goals are your goals- if you don't want to do it- don't. But there are literally tons of reasons it's beneficial.

Back on topic ^this.

You do not need to lift 'heavy' to get benefits (lifting 'heavy' being what you can lift with decent form before getting to failure up to about 8 reps). You can get them at say 15 reps. However, the more reps you do, the less benefits you get for many of these points.

jonnythan

I never said they wouldn't look different. I believe they do and have always said so. The fact that it's more noticable in life than in a pic is really just common sense. This is getting silly, what is your point exactly? I see differences. Do you think if you repeatedly tell me I don't, that I suddenly won't?

You seem to be comparing some stereotypical image of a female bodybuilder to some stereotypical image of a female ballet dancer and thinking "see, it's so obvious that dancers look totally different from people who just lift weights."

Whatever "differences" you see do not correspond to reality. Your claim that a lifter cannot look like a dancer is completely counter to reality.

bcattoes

Your claim that a lifter cannot look like a dancer is completely counter to reality.

Had I ever made such a claim, I agree that it would not be true.

funkycamper

In addition to the other benefits already discussed, lifting heavy (which just means heavy for you, not a specific # of pounds) does wonders for functional fitness. I appreciate that I can carry heavy things without having to wait for my husband to do it, that I can carry the groceries upstairs from the garage in less trips because I can carry more at one time, do more of our own gardening myself, and so on.

I have seen huge benefits in my running and cycling since I started lifting heavy, too. And I can carry a heavy pack when backpacking and almost forget it's there. Wow. Those who I hike with that don't lift, are always complaining about their pack weight and sore/stiff backs.

Sure, I want to look better too but it's the functional benefits that I'm really jazzed about.

Several years back, I had a severe back injury. You would never know it because of the way I can move and lift now. I only need very occasional adjustments to alleviate a hip that tends to want to twist and pinch nerves.. However, those times are also getting less frequent due to the stronger muscles doing a better job holding my bones in place correctly. My chiropractor encouraged me to lift and do hip thrusts to eliminate this issue and I'm really close to being there. I know I would need more visits and have more problems if I wasn't lifting. Several people I know who have had similar injuries are still hobbled, somewhat crippled, needing to take pain meds to get through the day, yada yada, even though most of them had their injury longer ago then I did. I totally attribute working out in general, lifting in particular, for me being totally pain-free and able to do things they can only dream of. I wish I could convince them to give lifting a try.

Also, started with the machines because I was a bit afraid of doing the free weights until my back got stronger. While I think this was a good plan and worked well, I can't believe how much difference I'm seeing since I progressed to free weights. It's like night and day. If you have a choice, use free weights.

jonnythan

if you think you can't replicate that look with targeted workouts in the gym, you're dead wrong.

I don't believe I am. You need the stretching and cardio of dancing, along with the strength training to get a dancers body. You need to dance.

Looks like you do need reminding.

weese17

I don't believe I am. You need the stretching and cardio of dancing, along with the strength training to get a dancers body. You need to dance.

Yes. Plus, be born to parents who had the right combo of genes to gift you a body suitable for dance.

mmapags

Actually KatrinaWilkes said the same thing I've been saying, when she said:

While in a way a dancers body would be more "lithe". That is because they stretch like crazy and train to look graceful.

I guess you missed this part when she said,
"It depends on what you mean by a "lifter". If you are talking about a normal person who does total body workouts.......they would look very much like a "dancer". Keep in mind some dancers, especially in ballet do not lift and do not have the same muscle definition, but are also very unhealthy! They subside on very unhealthy calorie levels. So if you wanted to look like an emaciated ballerina, you should become anorexic. But if you wanted to look like the healthy, fit modern, contemporary dancer, lifting weights will not hinder that.

But if you are talking about a professional lifter or bodybuilder, no they would not look like dancers. But their strength training is highly specialized and target specific muscles. They are sculpting their bodies and different muscle groups to look like that. But again normal people who do full body strength training and train each muscle group proportionately will not look like the body builders!"

devil_in_a_blue_dress

I don't lift -- sorry don't want to, don't enjoy it. I do circuit training and the elliptical. I'm not as lean or as solid as I could be - that's totally cool with me.

The doctor says my bone density is just fine (cause lifting isn't the ONLY way to build strong bones) --- so I see no reason to do something I hate for a figure I don't really want. I am happy being a bit fleshier or what is frequently called skinny fat on the forums.

I don't think lean women are gross -- and women who do lift certainly aren't "bulky" as seems to be the common misconception. It's just not how I see myself.

jonnythan

In addition to the other benefits already discussed, lifting heavy (which just means heavy for you, not a specific # of pounds) does wonders for functional fitness. I appreciate that I can carry heavy things without having to wait for my husband to do it, that I can carry the groceries upstairs from the garage in less trips because I can carry more at one time, do more of our own gardening myself, and so on.

I have seen huge benefits in my running and cycling since I started lifting heavy, too. And I can carry a heavy pack when backpacking and almost forget it's there. Wow. Those who I hike with that don't lift, are always complaining about their pack weight and sore/stiff backs.

Sure, I want to look better too but it's the functional benefits that I'm really jazzed about.

Several years back, I had a severe back injury. You would never know it because of the way I can move and lift now. I only need very occasional adjustments to alleviate a hip that tends to want to twist and pinch nerves.. However, those times are also getting less frequent due to the stronger muscles doing a better job holding my bones in place correctly. My chiropractor encouraged me to lift and do hip thrusts to eliminate this issue and I'm really close to being there. I know I would need more visits and have more problems if I wasn't lifting. Several people I know who have had similar injuries are still hobbled, somewhat crippled, needing to take pain meds to get through the day, yada yada, even though most of them had their injury longer ago then I did. I totally attribute working out in general, lifting in particular, for me being totally pain-free and able to do things they can only dream of. I wish I could convince them to give lifting a try.

Also, started with the machines because I was a bit afraid of doing the free weights until my back got stronger. While I think this was a good plan and worked well, I can't believe how much difference I'm seeing since I progressed to free weights. It's like night and day. If you have a choice, use free weights.

This is another good point. I had been plagued with lower back pain for a long time and even tore a muscle in my back some years back.

Squats and deadlifts have virtually eliminated the back pain. Just strengthening my posterior chain has made my life significantly better.

Same with my knees and ankles. I had a partial tear of my MCL in a skiing accident a decade ago, and tore a ligament in my ankle a few years before that. They've *always* given me trouble. I've been lifting for a while now, and all that pain has gone away, simply from strengthening the ligaments and muscles around the joints.

PeachyKeene

I have been lifting heavy since February 8th and I am already seeing amazing results. I tried to say heavylifting wasn't for me, but I am now finding I was so wrong!!!!!

beersrod

bump...I love this!!

CoderGal

I've noticed some comments on success stories about people thinking that the poster should start lifting heavy and all that after they've lost weight. I understand that if you want to tone up or build muscle. But if you do have a low body fat percentage already, what's so wrong with just looking slim? Especially for women?

Can anyone give me some sort of data of the importance of lifting? (Aside from muscle needing more calories than fat for maintenance) Or is it just a personal appearance thing?

I'm not going to bother looking any up but I'll state that I've read a lot of it. I got to my goal sedentary. I was slim, 5'7, 120lbs, 17% fat (fairly low), exercised regularly (walking and doing the expert hiking trails around here regularly), and had a squishy gut and didn't like wearing tight pants. It was 25 inches around....but it was squishy. I also have a bad/displaced spine. I've danced most of my life, but never 'lifted' things.

A lot of my friends list here was at me to lift. My back was breaking over carrying my own book bag let alone lifting weights regularly. Then one day a guy from my class asked if I wanted to start a light (up to 40lbs) lifting routine with him. Well we've recruited about 7 more people to lift with us and we all agree we've never felt better. The squish on my stomach is lacking a lot of squish even though I'm 10lbs heavier now (on a calorie surplus, not on a deficit as I didn't want to be below 120lbs at 5'7). I carry my bookbag with me everywhere now, sometimes I forget there's anything in it.

Since I've seen the benefits from lifting those little guys I'm currently here shopping online for a squat rack and an Olympic bar to start the Stronglifts 5x5 routine.

P.S. This is coming from a completely I HATE weights person. I would rather prance around doing high kicks on a dance stage...but I just can't deny the benefits.

jonnythan

I'm not going to bother looking any up but I'll state that I've read a lot of it. I got to my goal sedentary. I was slim, 5'7, 120lbs, 17% fat (fairly low), exercised regularly (walking and doing the expert hiking trails around here regularly), and had a squishy gut and didn't like wearing tight pants. It was 25 inches around....but it was squishy. I also have a bad/displaced spine.

A lot of my friends list was at me to lift. My back was breaking over carrying my own book bag let alone lifting weights regularly. Then one day a guy from my class asked if I wanted to start a lifting routine with him. Well we've recruited about 7 more people to lift with us and we all agree we've never felt better. The squish on my stomach is lacking a lot of squish even though I'm 10lbs heavier now (on a calorie surplus, not on a deficit as I didn't want to be below 120lbs at 5'7). I carry my bookbag with me everywhere now, sometimes I forget there's anything in it.

Awesome! Another success story for my notes.

professorRAT

I don't believe I am. You need the stretching and cardio of dancing, along with the strength training to get a dancers body. You need to dance.

Yes. Plus, be born to parents who had the right combo of genes to gift you a body suitable for dance.

Yes, you are so right. Cause and effect runs the other way. This reminds me of when people point to long distance runners and claim the exercise will make your muscles longer. Maybe people with long muscles (genetically determined) are more likely to become successful long distance runners. Successful competitive body builders will likely be those whose genetics are more conducive to the sport. There seems to be lots of confusion about correlation vs causation around here, including lack of understanding regarding direction of cause/effect and omitted variable bias. You know that higher ice cream sales causes more swimming pool drownings, right? The two are positively correlated!

eta: I totally reversed osteopenia (pre-osteoporosis) caused by medication solely by heavy weight lifting. The end.

stephaniemejia1671

Skinny fat is what will happen to those who don't lift weights. I've seen it - not cool, no thanks. You'll get a beautiful physique should you lift weights. Dancers do it also... And ballet dancers too. Diet is important as to be able to lose fat and not just gain muscle under the fat you already have.