General Comment About People Who Don't Lift
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This is a 17 time World Champion Powerlifter.
Can you guys tell me who this is, btw?0 -
I said in no way are they repulsive that's quite extreme, what I said was flat and boring. That is my opinion. Choose to like that and be reactive to it that is your right and doesn't bother me, or you could choose to be objective and read the rest of what was said. Which was educate yourself about both spectrums before you dismiss lifting because you simply don't like how it makes your body feel the first time you do it, or how you think you'll turn into sheman....I also did not deny the benefits of yoga, running, or other cardio...I do it daily.
I think we're all reacting quite strongly because people HAVE said only lifters look good. Only lifters are sexy. Only lifters etc... and we're all a bit tired of hearing it.
There's no need to body shame people to try and force them into lifting.
Well I've done cardio only for a year and I don't look good. I'm back to lifting.0 -
I just felt compelled to chime in again on this thread.
I think women lifting weights (heavier ones) is great for a ton of reasons.
But here are the reasons I personally think suck:
1. Because men will think I am hotter!
2. Because I want to be as hot as <insert your favorite fitness model>
3. Because being skinny is lame
It is OK to want to be strong, for being strongs sake. We spend a lot of time saying stuff like. "Woman can be strong, but not too strong. And you have to look hot while you are strong. And not too manly. Lots of this validation for stength training is tied up in a bunch of external factors.
Do it for you. Do it for your bones. Do it to reduce you body fat percentage. Do it to save your hips. But don't do it because everyone keeps telling you all the "hot women do."
OK end of rant.
And on another note, I had a realization the other day. I recall the last time I was at the weight I am now. Maybe 8 years ago or so. I wore a bigger clothing size.0 -
And on another note, I had a realization the other day. I recall the last time I was at the weight I am now. Maybe 8 years ago or so. I wore a bigger clothing size.
I was shocked to discover my cousin is roughly the same weight as I am. And she's about a size 5/6 and I'm a size 10.
She's a couple inches shorter also.
But she obviously has much more muscle than i do. Back to lifting.
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I just felt compelled to chime in again on this thread.
I think women lifting weights (heavier ones) is great for a ton of reasons.
But here are the reasons I personally think suck:
1. Because men will think I am hotter!
2. Because I want to be as hot as <insert your favorite fitness model>
3. Because being skinny is lame
It is OK to want to be strong, for being strongs sake. We spend a lot of time saying stuff like. "Woman can be strong, but not too strong. And you have to look hot while you are strong. And not too manly. Lots of this validation for stength training is tied up in a bunch of external factors.
Do it for you. Do it for your bones. Do it to reduce you body fat percentage. Do it to save your hips. But don't do it because everyone keeps telling you all the "hot women do."
OK end of rant.
And on another note, I had a realization the other day. I recall the last time I was at the weight I am now. Maybe 8 years ago or so. I wore a bigger clothing size.
^^very well said.0 -
I never said a word about yoga. Don't confuse my words with those of other people.
That includes not only yoga, but EVERY other activity that isn't weight lifting. So no, I'm not confusing your words with those of other people, I'm saying that you're being dismissive of other exercise styles because of your belief that weight lifting is superior. That's a very close-minded view.The only people I've seen for whom lifting is not the single best exercise they could possibly do are people with severe injuries or defects that don't allow them to lift. Or people who play a specific sport at a high level and need specific training that may not involve lifting. That's it.0 -
I never said a word about yoga. Don't confuse my words with those of other people.
That includes not only yoga, but EVERY other activity that isn't weight lifting. So no, I'm not confusing your words with those of other people, I'm saying that you're being dismissive of other exercise styles because of your belief that weight lifting is superior. That's a very close-minded view.The only people I've seen for whom lifting is not the single best exercise they could possibly do are people with severe injuries or defects that don't allow them to lift. Or people who play a specific sport at a high level and need specific training that may not involve lifting. That's it.
I'm not dismissive of other exercise styles. Cardio is great. Yoga is great. Certainly there are some things that are enormous wastes of time, like the "toning" exercises so many women seem to do. But cardio is good. Yoga is good. Yoga especially - the people who do it seem to very much enjoy the mental state they are in while doing yoga.
But doing these things at the expense of lifting is silly if your goals are health, weight loss, appearance, strength, etc. The problem is people convince themselves - or are convinced by others - that these things will produce results that they simply can't produce. Lifting is efficient and far, far more productive at producing the results people want than anything else. You can substitute bodyweight exercises for lifting pieces of iron and steel, but it won't work as well.
The fact is that for 99% of people who decide to go to the gym, the ideal program is one that includes lifting and some kind of cardio. Depending on your goals, it can certainly be good to mix other things in there, like swimming, endurance training, yoga, whatever. But for the typical person who decides to "get in shape" and then spends 10 hours a week on an elliptical at the gym with a little time dedicated to a few circuit machines or lightweight dumbbells, they are doing things rather badly.
"Not lifting" is a mistake a lot of people make, and it's with very few exceptions one they should not make.0 -
Great information DaveSurf and so true! Thank you for sharing that!0
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This is a 17 time World Champion Powerlifter.
Can you guys tell me who this is, btw?
Amanda Harris.0 -
I'm not dismissive of other exercise styles. Cardio is great. Yoga is great. Certainly there are some things that are enormous wastes of time, like the "toning" exercises so many women seem to do. But cardio is good. Yoga is good. Yoga especially - the people who do it seem to very much enjoy the mental state they are in while doing yoga.
But doing these things at the expense of lifting is silly if your goals are health, weight loss, appearance, strength, etc. The problem is people convince themselves - or are convinced by others - that these things will produce results that they simply can't produce. Lifting is efficient and far, far more productive at producing the results people want than anything else. You can substitute bodyweight exercises for lifting pieces of iron and steel, but it won't work as well.
I'll ignore the part about you being dismissive of other exercises, since anyone can read back through you previous posts in this thread. But what you are saying in your second paragraph above, simply is not true.
1. There is no evidence that weight lifting is required for health. I'm not saying you can't improve your health through weight lifting, but there is no evidence to support the notion that it is necessary for health.
2. Appearance is opinion. The media is full of beautiful people. Especially when it comes to beautiful women, some lift, some don't. So, you could only mean that people who don't lift don't look good to you. Though since you purport that weight lifters look just like dancers, I don't see how that could really be true.
3. Strength can be improved and maintained through body weight. Certainly strength can be taken to levels beyond body weight through weight lifting, but body weight exercises will provide enough strength for lifting things in everyday life, maintaining bone density, and health.
4. Weight loss. The world is full of people who have lost weight without lifting weights. They may have been able to eat more while losing had they included weights, but weights are not required for weight loss.0 -
Strength training is not synonymous with "pumping iron".
The training of gymnasts is comprised almost entirely out of bodyweight exercises.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/367737-male-gymnast-weight-training/
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_interviews/all_muscle_no_iron0 -
I lost 94 lbs. without doing any serious lifting. I did some yoga. I did some "strength" training. I had a personal trainer whose job (as I look back) was to make me feel good about what I was doing and make sure I would keep paying for the training. She could have told me about the importance of lifting but didn't. She mentioned that I might want to "thing about lifting", but didn't stress it. I was always praised for the accomplishments I was making. I FELT GREAT ABOUT WHAT I WAS DOING. The pounds were coming off. I felt better. I wasn't on MFP at the time or I would have at least been exposed to the importance of lifting. I think I look pretty good with clothes on, but I'm pretty sure based on the pics and comments I've read here on MFP that I would be much happier and look better naked if I had lifted while I was losing weight.0
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Strength training is not synonymous with "pumping iron".
The training of gymnasts is comprised almost entirely out of bodyweight exercises.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/367737-male-gymnast-weight-training/
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_interviews/all_muscle_no_iron
Funny articles, considering when you speak to actual competition gymnasts they say that they do indeed use the weight room:
"Typically as a gymnast enters college, they experience some formal weight training, but again the movements are geared toward maximizing sport-specific strength, because unnecessary muscle bulk non-essential for the skills will only weigh an athlete down.
However, work in the weight room usually is helpful for the more mature college-age athletes so that they can develop the necessary strength to continue to perform gymnastics with a bigger, more mature body."
"After developing a good base of strength with chest press, overhead shoulder press, bent-over rows, and lat pulldowns, move on to bodyweight training with a significant portion of your bodyweight."
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/how_gymnasts_train.htm
But, again, this is sport-specific training. Gymnasts don't train specifically for health, well-being, appearance, confidence, etc. The're training to maximize their ability at a very specific sport. They do indeed use weights to supplement their sport-specific training, though.
It's also important to note that professional gymnasts don't start out overweight with high body fat.0 -
I'm not dismissive of other exercise styles. Cardio is great. Yoga is great. Certainly there are some things that are enormous wastes of time, like the "toning" exercises so many women seem to do. But cardio is good. Yoga is good. Yoga especially - the people who do it seem to very much enjoy the mental state they are in while doing yoga.
But doing these things at the expense of lifting is silly if your goals are health, weight loss, appearance, strength, etc. The problem is people convince themselves - or are convinced by others - that these things will produce results that they simply can't produce. Lifting is efficient and far, far more productive at producing the results people want than anything else. You can substitute bodyweight exercises for lifting pieces of iron and steel, but it won't work as well.
But don't you see that you're calling other styles of exercise inferior? Even though you said 'Yoga is great" you followed it up with, essentially, "doing yoga at the expense of lifting is silly if you want to be healthy, strong, lose weight, and look good". Saying something is good as long as it's not your focus can still be dismissive of it. Even with gymnastics, which can take people to strength levels FAR above anything they'll actually need in their daily lives, and which is a well accepted form of resistance training, you claim it's inefficient and won't work as well..
Consistency trumps efficiency EVERY time. You say that 99% of the time people need to lift, if the person hates it and won't be able to stick with it, that's 100% of time not the right course of action. Again I love lifting, but not everyone is like me, and folks need to understand the facts and from that work out what would be best for them personally.
I agree with you about misinformation and the problems from that, someone doing yoga for 8 hours a day will never look like Yates. That doesn't mean that doing that much yoga is silly or a waste of time compared to someone who hits the gym for an hour 3 times a week and lifts poorly.0 -
1. There is no evidence that weight lifting is required for health.
I never said it was required for health.2. Appearance is opinion. The media is full of beautiful people. Especially when it comes to beautiful women, some lift, some don't. So, you could only mean that people who don't lift don't look good to you. Though since you purport that weight lifters look just like dancers, I don't see how that could really be true.
I never said "weight lifters look just like dancers."3. Strength can be improved and maintained through body weight. Certainly strength can be taken to levels beyond body weight through weight lifting, but body weight exercises will provide enough strength for lifting things in everyday life, maintaining bone density, and health.
It can, but it's harder and less efficient than doing so with weights. Even fewer people are willing to commit to a true, effective bodyweight routine than to one using weights. I haven't seen anyone in this thread who "lifts heavy" using bodyweight, even though it's possible.4. Weight loss. The world is full of people who have lost weight without lifting weights. They may have been able to eat more while losing had they included weights, but weights are not required for weight loss.
Again, never said that it was. You're knocking down straw man after straw man, but ignoring my actual points.0 -
Strong people are harder to kill during the zombie apocalypse.0
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I wasn't on MFP at the time or I would have at least been exposed to the importance of lifting. I think I look pretty good with clothes on, but I'm pretty sure based on the pics and comments I've read here on MFP that I would be much happier and look better naked if I had lifted while I was losing weight.
This is exactly the point.
The problem isn't that doing yoga is a waste of time, or that it's dumb. It's not. The problem is that people don't recognize how productive and effective real strength training is. If you understand, and just don't like lifting and understand the tradeoff you're making, then fine. But the problem is when people try to convince themselves or others that yoga or "toning" or whatever else they do is just as effective or efficient at building or maintaining lean mass and strength as lifting is. It's just not.
Lifting will enable you to lose body fat and preserve lean muscle faster than anything else you can do. Serious bodyweight training (and by serious I mean Convict Conditioning or gymnast-style full-body workouts designed to work you heavy to failure) comes close. Yoga, not so much. Pink dumbbells, no.
If you still don't want to lift, fine don't lift. But don't try to convince other people that whatever else you've decided to do, whether it's spend 10 hours a week on an elliptical or 4 hours a week of yoga, will produce results similar to a routine that actually includes heavy lifting. It won't.0 -
1. There is no evidence that weight lifting is required for health.
I never said it was required for health.2. Appearance is opinion. The media is full of beautiful people. Especially when it comes to beautiful women, some lift, some don't. So, you could only mean that people who don't lift don't look good to you. Though since you purport that weight lifters look just like dancers, I don't see how that could really be true.
I never said "weight lifters look just like dancers."3. Strength can be improved and maintained through body weight. Certainly strength can be taken to levels beyond body weight through weight lifting, but body weight exercises will provide enough strength for lifting things in everyday life, maintaining bone density, and health.
It can, but it's harder and less efficient than doing so with weights. Even fewer people are willing to commit to a true, effective bodyweight routine than to one using weights. I haven't seen anyone in this thread who "lifts heavy" using bodyweight, even though it's possible.4. Weight loss. The world is full of people who have lost weight without lifting weights. They may have been able to eat more while losing had they included weights, but weights are not required for weight loss.
Again, never said that it was. You're knocking down straw man after straw man, but ignoring my actual points.
Hmm, it seemed natural to me to infer that saying it was "silly" to not lift weights if these things above were your goals meant that you were saying you couldn't achieve them. I can't imagine why achieving your goals by any means would be silly, but if I inferred incorrectly, I apologize.0 -
I think I look pretty good with clothes on, but I'm pretty sure based on the pics and comments I've read here on MFP that I would be much happier and look better naked if I had lifted while I was losing weight.
Lol, can't really tell from your profile pics. Put up a couple naked and we'll let you know. j/k
Joking aside, one of the key things I feel that any trainer and anyone focused on weight loss should be concerned with is making most of that loss fat and minimizing lean muscle tissue loss. For that, I believe weight training is the most efficient route. Beyond that, I think there is something to be said for a balanced program that includes resistance training of some kind (weights, yoga, body weight), cardio and some form of functional training.
One of members Steve Troutman is a well respected fitness and nutrition professional. He made a statement refering to concern about the scale number but I think it really sums up a high level view of the ideal goal of a diet and fitness program.
"I simply don't think it's worth worrying about what your weight should be. Rather, worry about what your health, functionality, performance, and physique should be. Weight will settle where it needs to be once those things are optimized."
Optimizing health, functionality, performance and physique. That made sense to me when I first read it and it still does. Some people will never want to weight training and they'll get to the level of health, functionality, performance and physique they desire. I don't think it's any coincidnence that pretty much every top level expert, from Venuto to Troutman to Layne Norton to Lyle McDonald to Alan Aragon, that I've ever read thinks weight training is a critical peice of a total program though.
Nor is it any coincidence that almost every sport including gymnastics and dancing as has been mentioned here, but also baseball, track, football, basketball, wrestling etc, etc all include weight training in their training programs.
That said, body weight and yoga and other forms of exercise have a benefit and not everyone is looking for optimum or concerned about lean mass preservation. As we've seen in this thread. Does that mean there is no value to those forms of exercise? Not at all!0 -
I have started adding weights/ toning now to get rid of my last few lbs and wobbly bits! I only want to be lean and firm really. I do yoga once a week. An hour of Leg weights, not heavy but at least 4 sets. Then an hour of arms but I only use 2kg weights but lots of reps. Then lots of core, varied sit ups. I try and do a class like spinning or zumba too. Muscle helps burn calories... pick up the weights lol xx 0
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