The Protein Myth
Replies
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OP: nobody is making claims that suboptimal protein intakes mean zero progress. That's a bit of a strawman.
Regarding the recommendation for higher intake, johnnythan covered it---on my phone so I can't click the study but hopefully it's the schoenfeld/Aragon meta. If not I'll link it later.
The RDA rec for protein is based on old data using nitrogen balance. Nitrogen balance is a poor indicator of lbm status due to NB measuring whole body nitrogen. It's not tissue specific.
There's research showing significant benefit specifically comparing the RDA to 2xRDA and 3xRDA and the higher protein intake is superior.
Phone posting so I'm being short.
Here's the Shoenfeld Aragon nutrient timing paper:
http://www.jissn.com/content/10/1/5
The one I linked to is the "Contemporary Issues in Protein Requirements and Consumption for Resistance Trained Athletes" meta by Wilson in 2006.0 -
OP: nobody is making claims that suboptimal protein intakes mean zero progress. That's a bit of a strawman.
Regarding the recommendation for higher intake, johnnythan covered it---on my phone so I can't click the study but hopefully it's the schoenfeld/Aragon meta. If not I'll link it later.
The RDA rec for protein is based on old data using nitrogen balance. Nitrogen balance is a poor indicator of lbm status due to NB measuring whole body nitrogen. It's not tissue specific.
There's research showing significant benefit specifically comparing the RDA to 2xRDA and 3xRDA and the higher protein intake is superior.
Phone posting so I'm being short.
Here's the Shoenfeld Aragon nutrient timing paper:
http://www.jissn.com/content/10/1/5
The one I linked to is the "Contemporary Issues in Protein Requirements and Consumption for Resistance Trained Athletes" meta by Wilson in 2006.
Thanks.0 -
Same thing goes with calories on MFP. It had me originally set to 1200. I was starving, cranky, and tired. Decided to up my calories and have never looked back. There was no huge disclaimer about it being "too low." It also had my fiber set too low. Just because MFP gives you a certain amount doesn't mean it's correct.
*I know your question was about protein but I was just trying to give a comparison.
I agree. My calories are set at 1720, but I rarely eat that little, especially when working out. I was always starving to the point of headaches and dizziness. My friend had told me that the 1720 was to lose the 2 pounds a week I wanted if I were laying in bed all day. Someone working out regularly should have more of everything. Calories, protein, fibers, etc. I wish MFP were set up to incorporate that a little better. Or at least let people know.0 -
I've read that using a percentage based protein recommendation as opposed to the gram recommendation based on body weight can err too low, especially for people cutting calories. I remember a teen on here who was confident he was getting enough protein on nowhere near enough calories (under 1200 and he was not yet 18) because he was hitting the percentage that MFP recommended. When I referred him to the accepted standard formula in the USA (not for body builders or athletes), he wasn't hitting it. He did say that motivated him to get more protein, which hopefully meant more calories too.
I know I feel better when I get more protein, which is often double what MFP recommends for me on the default settings.0 -
Even a lot of nutritionists, exercise physiologists and kinesiologists will argue that it is unnecessary for anyone, including bodybuilders, powerlifters, strongmen and football players, to consume more than 100 grams of protein per day; however, how many of these nutritionists, physiologists and kinesiologists have a 600lb squat or 22" biceps? I would venture to say very few if any. Athletes are always ahead of the scientific curve because they don't require a 10 year long, triple blind university conducted study to know that something works. They try it once and if it works well for them they keep it. The moral of the story? If you are doing any sort of resistance training it is important for you to be eating a lot more protein that mfp recommends. I aim for 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight per day weather I am cutting or bulking at the time. This much may not be necessary for everyone but it's a good place to start.0
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When you work out hard you can form micro tears in your muscles. Eating protein can help you body recover and reform the muscles to make them stronger, hence why we work out.
As far as why everyone needs to eat more protein on a daily basis, I can think of two reasons. First, protein fills you up for longer. It is relatively low calorie for the amount of time that it sustains you, and is digests slowly and causes less of an insulin spike than carbs. This helps delay the wasting of energy which can lead to fat synthesis.
Secondly, I think our bodies were originally designed to eat different ratios of protein/carbs/fat. Back when our species started, our carbs came from mainly fruits and vegetables, and our diet was focused on meat, fish, legumes, etc, which have high protein contents. As we evolved and started processing foods, I think the fat and carbs increased while our protein remained the same or decreased.
When people say "eat more protein" it's because a lot of people A. simply don't eat enough protein or B. eat it in such a small quantity when compared to fat and carbs that it's not going to help with their overall health or body composition.0 -
Just to play Devil's Advocate here, too much protein is worse than not enough. Your body will dump the excess protein in your urine. Which adds unnecessary stress and possible damage to your kidneys. So play it safe when you adjust your protein levels.
Having said that, I have just upped my protein intake.0 -
OP's post are hidden from all but her friends, so there is not much context to go by. Posting a "rattle the cage" topic in that manner is suspect.0
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Steak & Eggs diet , everyday !! LBS LOST : 21.3
BODYFAT : 6.6% LOST ......~RB30 -
Just to play Devil's Advocate here, too much protein is worse than not enough. Your body will dump the excess protein in your urine. Which adds unnecessary stress and possible damage to your kidneys. So play it safe when you adjust your protein levels.
Having said that, I have just upped my protein intake.
Pretty sure that the NIH has compiled almost a century of studies that say this isn't true.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1262767/0 -
I agree with many of the above posters...
MFP sets it at protein at a low/moderate amount for sedentary individuals. For those of us that workout on a consistent basis, our bodies require more protein in order to help repair and rebuild muscle.
There are arguments for and against this as there are with any topic of interest. But it is up the the person and how their body responds. There are people who respond well with a high protein and low carb diet, a moderate protein and moderate carb diet, and those who benefit from a low protein/high carb diet.
The point for some people of having a high protein diet is because they can cut back on their carb intake and still feel satiated.
I think that the reason why protein shakes have been a huge staple in the industry is because their availability, portability (it's a lot easier to get your hands on a protein shake after a workout then a chicken breast), and the idea that your body has a short window of opportunity after working out to get nutrients into the body that are going to have a high impact on the repair and recovery of your muscle tissue. So that's really where whey protein consumption originated.
I think that whey protein came about because of this "window of opportunity" theory/fact? because whey protein is quickly broken down in the body and assimilated into it's amino acids which will aide the repair of muscle tissue. Whey protein is said to break down in less than one hour, effectively contributing to muscle repair and rebuilding during that window of opportunity. Whereas if you ate a whole food protein (chicken breast, steak, fish, etc.) will take much longer... generally about 2-6 hours for the protein from whole food sources to break down into their amino acid form.0 -
Just to play Devil's Advocate here, too much protein is worse than not enough. Your body will dump the excess protein in your urine. Which adds unnecessary stress and possible damage to your kidneys. So play it safe when you adjust your protein levels.
Having said that, I have just upped my protein intake.
Pretty sure that the NIH has compiled almost a century of studies that say this isn't true.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1262767/
There is a point where too much protein is bad...somewhere over 60% of total caloric intake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation.0 -
What is with you people and these macro nutrient ratios and percentages? Everyone's body is different. Everyone's body requires a daily amount of protein and a daily amount of fat. Once you work out calorie needs, you then work out how much of each macro-nutrient you should aim for. Because our bodies have a set amount of protein and fat they need daily, these macros should be worked out first! Then fill the rest up with carbs. This is one of the areas that is MOST often confused. This should NOT be based on a RATIO of macro intakes. (eg: '30:40:30 or 40:40:20'). Your body doesn't CARE what % intake you have. It works based on SUFFICIENT QUANTITY per MASS. Don't let MFP fool you, do not even pay attention to those percentages they do not mean anything.
The fact is, your body, no matter how intense your workout is, requires protein. The best time to consume protein is after your workout. Use common sense, they have been through some form of strenuous exercise, they are tired and need fuel and rest. I would rather consume too much protein then ever fall under. Eat, lift, sleep, repeat.0 -
For me, it is simple.
I like protein. I feel better when I eat 100 grams of protein a day. That's slightly over 1g/LBM, but not much over. It's easy to eat that much protein, and I have gotten hella stronger eating this way over the past few months.
I also like fat. I feel better when I eat around 50-60g/day.
I also like carbs. I have no idea how many carbs I eat in a day because I don't track it. I guess that depends on how many calories I consume. I'm guessing it's a lot when I eat 2400 calories.
Science? In a way. Hypothesis ==> trial. Trial ==> feel better. Feel better ==> better performance.
I was my own test subject. If anyone would like to see the results of the study, my diary and photo album is open.
This^^^ Use what works for you!0 -
I do wish that MFP distinguished between minimums, maximums and targets.0
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you guys are getting into a debate that has been forever a hot topic in fitness and bodybuilding circles...the bottom line for me is personally...what combo gets me the results I'm seeking in life overall.
If you haven't tested it in the trenches of living through the strategy for a period of time, how would you know if it works or which is better?
Even if there is a more optimal way, you have to select the way that can be implemented into your life and get you the results you seek...so the questions are, what are you trying to accomplish and what is the proper balance in life for you...You may respect someone who is top of the foodchain in accomplishing a certain goal, though pity them for the price they had to pay to get there...
things to think about..that's what its a very individual and personal lifestyle..every person has different needs and goals..and we are always exploring in life..that's what makes it fun
^^^
This man has it.
Personally I never wanted huge amounts of protein, I prefer eating loads of carbs - its easy.
However, the moment I PERSONALLY ate protein at 1.5-2g per lb of body weight my gains sky rocketed, and when I diet I shed fat like no ones business and hold good levels of muscle at the end of the diet.
Find that works for you. I would suggest starting around 1g and adjust over several months and see that what works for you.0 -
Just to play Devil's Advocate here, too much protein is worse than not enough. Your body will dump the excess protein in your urine. Which adds unnecessary stress and possible damage to your kidneys. So play it safe when you adjust your protein levels.
Having said that, I have just upped my protein intake.
No it s not. I hear that time and time and time again - its based on nothing other than a misunderstanding of renal failure patients being carried across to the general population.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/107227790 -
So someone clarify something for me. I'm really not that concerned about getting too much protein, but I want to make sure I get enough. I've seen .7-1g per pound recommended. But I also saw .7-1g per kilogram recommended. There's a pretty big difference between those two.
Which one?0 -
Just to play Devil's Advocate here, too much protein is worse than not enough. Your body will dump the excess protein in your urine. Which adds unnecessary stress and possible damage to your kidneys. So play it safe when you adjust your protein levels.
Having said that, I have just upped my protein intake.
Pretty sure that the NIH has compiled almost a century of studies that say this isn't true.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1262767/
There is a point where too much protein is bad...somewhere over 60% of total caloric intake.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation.
Rabbit starvation is using one source of protein to give the body protein - incomplete amino acid spectrum. Hence a good varied diet of meats/eggs/whey etc is a good idea.
Read your own link.0 -
So someone clarify something for me. I'm really not that concerned about getting too much protein, but I want to make sure I get enough. I've seen .7-1g per pound recommended. But I also saw .7-1g per kilogram recommended. There's a pretty big difference between those two.
Which one?
1g per lb.
eg
150lb man = 150g protein.
Personally I find it more optional to have 2g/lb but that's just ME.0 -
I have to rattle a cage. It seems to be "common knowledge" on mfp that everyone needs loads of protein to A. Lose fat, and B. Increase strength and that it's imperative that normal people have a protein shake after each strength work out. I'm not talking about heavy lifting, I'm talking about your basic run of the mill strength workouts so if you want to lecture about heavy lifting and protein move along as that is not what I'm talking about. So I'm wondering why that is and why everyone says mfp's settings for protein are "too low" for most people. When someone asks about protein, someone had to come in and say their setting is "too low" because it's what mfp set for them. Why would mfp set it too low really? If it was too low wouldn't they have corrected it? Wouldn't there be a huge disclaimer about it being "too low"? Is it impossible for someone to lose fat and get stronger with 50g -70g of protein? To most mfp "experts" yes, how did this rumor come about that mfp settings are too low and that people need 100g of protein to lose fat?
Please refer us to where someone said that.0 -
I have only heard of people being advised to do this if they are strength training or struggling with the mfp protein setting. I know I was way over when I started using the site.
If mfp's setting works for you then use it. If it isn't working for you and you ask about it - people are going to offer you advice, seems a bit arsey to then moan about it.0 -
Bob on Biggest Loser told a contestant that they should eat protein after a workout to help rebuild the muscles.
Lol. Bob is a tool and consistently gives very poor info.
I have read that we may suggest too much protein. However, given our hugely carb world, it's probably generally good advice to suggest that people increase protein, but it's based on the individuals situation. It shouldn't just be a standard answer to everyone. I think protein is overrated.
but we'll trust random GuitarJerry on the interwebs!
Maybe you should trust the results of multiple peer-reviewed studies. Just a thought.
backed by the very industries that stand to benefit from those studies? see the flaw?
oh rly?0 -
So someone clarify something for me. I'm really not that concerned about getting too much protein, but I want to make sure I get enough. I've seen .7-1g per pound recommended. But I also saw .7-1g per kilogram recommended. There's a pretty big difference between those two.
Which one?
Per lb
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I can't be the only one who sees the humor in that comment being made by someone who has a conflict of interest on this topic.Bob on Biggest Loser told a contestant that they should eat protein after a workout to help rebuild the muscles.
Lol. Bob is a tool and consistently gives very poor info.
I have read that we may suggest too much protein. However, given our hugely carb world, it's probably generally good advice to suggest that people increase protein, but it's based on the individuals situation. It shouldn't just be a standard answer to everyone. I think protein is overrated.
but we'll trust random GuitarJerry on the interwebs!
Maybe you should trust the results of multiple peer-reviewed studies. Just a thought.
backed by the very industries that stand to benefit from those studies? see the flaw?0 -
I can't be the only one who sees the humor in that comment being made by someone who has a conflict of interest on this topic.Bob on Biggest Loser told a contestant that they should eat protein after a workout to help rebuild the muscles.
Lol. Bob is a tool and consistently gives very poor info.
I have read that we may suggest too much protein. However, given our hugely carb world, it's probably generally good advice to suggest that people increase protein, but it's based on the individuals situation. It shouldn't just be a standard answer to everyone. I think protein is overrated.
but we'll trust random GuitarJerry on the interwebs!
Maybe you should trust the results of multiple peer-reviewed studies. Just a thought.
backed by the very industries that stand to benefit from those studies? see the flaw?
<--- Aware.0 -
Uhhhhhh, where exactly is the "protein myth" here? O.o
And good luck building muscle with a pittance of protein...let me know how that works for ya. 0 -
Uhhhhhh, where exactly is the "protein myth" here? O.o
And good luck building muscle with a pittance of protein...let me know how that works for ya.
Indeed the building blocks of the human body, amino acids... good luck with carbs and your fats (ok fats are good for their uses on the membranes etc, I'll give you that).0 -
Uhhhhhh, where exactly is the "protein myth" here? O.o
And good luck building muscle with a pittance of protein...let me know how that works for ya.
haha this right here people^^ Well said!0 -
Just to play Devil's Advocate here, too much protein is worse than not enough. Your body will dump the excess protein in your urine. Which adds unnecessary stress and possible damage to your kidneys. So play it safe when you adjust your protein levels.
Having said that, I have just upped my protein intake.
Research on this has shown that excess proteins can cause damage to kidneys that are already diseased but is easily handled by healthy kidneys.0
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